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VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 04:13 PM
I ran across this little tid bit while on another forum. It looks to be a re-badged D40x with a dust reduction system and some updated processing. Put this together with the new 18-55 VR for somewhere in the $650-700 range, and it should sell pretty easily.


Nikon D60 digital SLR camera : Nikon Corporation is pleased to announce the D60, one of the smallest Nikon digital SLRs ever. The Nikon D60 makes it fun and easy to take breathtaking pictures while also offering plenty of features for those who want to deepen their interest in creative shooting. With a split-second shutter response, the Nikon D60 captures pictures that cameras with longer time lags miss. Ease of use and creative options both come standard with the Nikon D60, whose exclusive Nikon technologies help deliver high-quality pictures with vibrant color and stunning, edge-to-edge detail. Such superior results are achieved through a high-resolution image sensor utilizing 10.2 megapixels and the world-famous Nikkor lenses delivering razor-sharp pictures.

Nikon D60 DSLR camera – 3D Color Matrix Metering II

Many cutting-edge Nikon features enhance your picture-taking experience. Nikon’s advanced 3D Color Matrix Metering II ensures consistently balanced exposures for images with natural color and contrast, while Nikon’s new digital image processing concept, EXPEED, makes it possible to deliver smoother tones and more accurate colors. Nikon’s fast, quiet and precise autofocus system adds significantly to the performance of the D60, capturing exact moments with astounding clarity.

Nikon D60 – Dust reduction & Image Sensor Cleaning function

Such clarity is reinforced by Nikon’s dust reduction countermeasures. To avoid picture-degrading dust particles accumulating near the imaging sensor, the Nikon D60 comes equipped with the innovative Image Sensor Cleaning function and Nikon’s exclusive Airflow Control System. These functions both reduce dust accumulation to give you even better picture quality.

Nikon D-60 reflex camera – Retouch menu

In addition to new dust reduction features, the Nikon D60 offers a variety of ways to experience more fun and creativity when taking pictures. Users can easily capture dynamic images in different shooting situations with a simple turn of the mode dial. The Retouch Menu offers even more creative excitement, letting you change your pictures into even more striking images – all fast, all simple and all without the need for a computer.

Nikon D60 body – Integrated Dust Reduction system

Compact and comfortable, the Nikon D60 has so much to offer: amazing picture quality, simple operation, an Integrated Dust Reduction System for clearer pictures and an extensive selection of creative features. The result: fun, fantastic and inspired pictures. The world of stunning photography is just a step away, with the Nikon D60.

Nikon D60 sensor – 10.2 Megapixels

The Nikon D60’s image sensor utilizes 10.2 megapixels to produce superb, high-quality images with incredible resolution, allowing you to make large prints, even if you only use part of an image. And thanks to EXPEED, Nikon’s unique digital image processing concept, your pictures will contain fine detail and smooth, natural tonal reproduction.

Nikon D 60 SLR – Integrated Dust Reduction System

The Airflow Control System used in the Nikon D60 leads air within the mirror box towards small ducts near the base, directing dust away from the image sensor. The Image Sensor Cleaning function also reduces dust accumulation near the sensor using specifically determined vibrations, which activate automatically or whenever the user chooses. This team of dust reduction countermeasures lets the user switch lenses confidently, taking advantage of the extensive lineup of Nikkor interchangeable optics while worrying less about the effects of dust in the camera.

Nikon D60 D-SLR camera – Active D-Lighting
The Nikon D60’s new Active D-Lighting feature can adjust the look of the final image while you shoot. This automatic process works in the highlight and shadow areas, compensating for difficult lighting conditions and producing optimized exposures with rich, smooth detail.

Nikon D60 – Simple operation within a compact body

The Nikon D60 is not just compact; its shape is ergonomically designed to fit in your hand naturally and comfortably. The body design is inherited from the highly regarded Nikon D40 series. The bright and clear viewfinder ensures precise composition, while the large, 2.5-in. LCD monitor displays an easy-to-use menu system with a wide viewing angle so that anyone can navigate the settings and view images with ease. The new Eye Sensor function turns off the LCD monitor when the viewfinder is used. When the user moves away from the viewfinder, the LCD monitor turns on again automatically.

Nikon D60 system reflex camera – Retouch Menu

The Nikon D60’s Retouch Menu offers many exclusive in-camera editing features to choose from. Use the Filter Effects option to intensify a color (Red/Green/Blue) of your choice, or try the Cross Screen feature to produce star-like lines radiating from brightly lit objects in the image. In-camera NEF (RAW) processing is also available. RAW format images are “developed” within the camera after shooting, allowing you to control specific aspects of your pictures, such as image quality, image size and white balance. With the new Stop-motion feature, a stop-motion animation (the consecutive playback of still images) can be created from a sequence of images (in JPEG format). Also included is a convenient Quick Retouch option, which enhances contrast and saturation, to improve images without using a computer. The D60’s extensive Retouch Menu increases the fun and creative freedom of using a digital SLR.

Nikon D60 digital SLR – Features

* Fast, 0.19-second power-up to respond to every photographic opportunity
* Split-second shutter response eliminates the annoyance of shooting lag
* Fast continuous shooting mode – up to 100 JPEG images at 3 frames per second
* Advanced three-point AF system offers fast, efficient and precise autofocus
* Nikon 3D Color Matrix Metering II for ideal exposures in almost any lighting situation
* Bright and clear viewfinder with 0.8x magnification for precise composition
* Long-life rechargeable lithium-ion battery – up to 500 images with the R709 on a single charge

Nikon D60 digital SLR – Features

* Digital Vari-Programs that adjust camera settings automatically for scene-specific pictures : Auto, Auto (Flash Off), Portrait, Landscape, Child, Sports, Close Up, and Night Portrait
* Manual control over shutter speed and aperture: P (Programmed Auto), S (Shutter-priority Auto), A (Aperture-priority Auto) and M (Manual)
* Built-in flash with Nikon’s dependable i-TTL flash control, supporting Auto flash, Red-eye reduction, Slow sync, Rear curtain sync and Flash exposure compensation
* Simultaneous recording of NEF (RAW) and JPEG basic data of the same image
* Camera setting menus can be customized to suit individual preferences
* Imprint date function prints the date of capture directly on the picture
* Electronic rangefinder display – indicates also focus distance when using manual focus mode

Nikon D60 digital SLR – Lens compatibility & Accessories

* Fully compatible with AF-S and AF-I Nikkor lenses, equipped with an autofocus motor
* Compatible with most F-mount Nikkor lenses when using manual focus mode)
* Supports the Nikon Creative Lighting System when using the SB-800, SB-600, SB-400, SB-R200 or the Wireless Close-Up Speedlight system R1C1. Offers accurate exposures via i-TTL flash
* Optional Wireless Remote Control ML-L3 for easy remote shutter release

Included Nikon ViewNX software lets you share, organize and edit pictures with ease

K1W1
01-28-2008, 04:34 PM
It may well be a leaked Nikon press release but it just doesn't read quite right to me. Until I see the official release I'm sticking with this being somebodies idea of a joke.

Rooz
01-28-2008, 04:38 PM
if this is true, it's well below the xsi and i think it will need to be priced far more aggressively than that. still a 2.5inch screen and 3AF points AND no LV ? so whats new ? dust removal system and 10mp ? not for that price thanks very much.

if nikon get greedy and try and flog a camera like that for $700 they will get slaughtered by the a200, k200 and people who spend a tad more to get the xsi. it needs to be around the $500 mark to make it attractive. even then...wow...not much of an upgrade really.

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Well, the pricing may be similar to what the current D40x is. Who knows.

I would bet that the D80 replacement is meant to be more of an XSi competitor, and fall between the XSi and 40D in pricing. Remember that the XSi is slated to be $800 ($US) body only. Add that 18-55 IS and you would probably add an additional $100 minimum to that. So that puts it at $900 minimum for that kit. I can see the D90, or whatever it is called, having all the same options as the XSi, and probably even more (think Sony A700 with live view), for $999 body only. $1100-1200 with the 18-55 kit lens, but it may be offered with the optional 16-85 VR for $1400-$1500 (US$)

Nikon will have the intro DSLR (D60), the advanced amateur (D90???), the Semi-pro/Pro (D300), and the Full Frame/Pro camera (D3). Nice little line up. Canon has the Intro/advanced amateur (XSi), the advanced amateur/semi-pro. (40D), the Pro (1D mkIII), and the full frame studio pro (1Ds mkIII). Not a bad line up either.

Everything, pricing wise, seems to fall all in between each other.

Jason25
01-28-2008, 05:04 PM
It may well be a leaked Nikon press release but it just doesn't read quite right to me. Until I see the official release I'm sticking with this being somebodies idea of a joke.

I'm thinking so too at this point. It seems like too little of an "upgrade" to be real, IMO.

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 05:06 PM
I'm thinking so too at this point. It seems like too little of an "upgrade" to be real, IMO.

Did the D40x really need to be upgraded though?

K1W1
01-28-2008, 05:10 PM
I ran across this little tid bit while on another forum.

Name names.
Post a link.

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 05:11 PM
Name names.
Post a link.

Oh, it was on that other site where a bunch of Nikon owners hang out.;)

Jason25
01-28-2008, 05:16 PM
Did the D40x really need to be upgraded though?

Exactly. This seems more like a D40xs :D

K1W1
01-28-2008, 05:19 PM
The more you read that "release" the wackier it gets. What about these three lines?

* Imprint date function prints the date of capture directly on the picture
* Electronic rangefinder display indicates also focus distance when using manual focus mode

Nikon D60 digital SLR Lens compatibility & Accessories

* Fully compatible with AF-S and AF-I Nikkor lenses, equipped with an autofocus motor

Apparently Nikon have dumbed down this new camera into an even smaller package than the D40 body, have retained the three auto focus zones only, have included the feature point and shooters keep asking for - date imprint that no other SLR has and have ADDED a focus motor so this dumb point and shoot targeted body can use existing Nikon Pro glass instead of the new generation light weight DX lenses designed for this type of camera.

K1W1
01-28-2008, 06:05 PM
Oh, it was on that other site where a bunch of Nikon owners hang out.;)

That narrows the field down to only about 1000 forums.
Why can you just not post a link?

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 06:14 PM
The more you read that "release" the wackier it gets. What about these three lines?

* Imprint date function prints the date of capture directly on the picture

Whats wrong with this? Its an option. Some people actually like this if they are taking photos of their children growing up.



* Electronic rangefinder display indicates also focus distance when using manual focus mode

Im not sure what this means.



Nikon D60 digital SLR Lens compatibility & Accessories

* Fully compatible with AF-S and AF-I Nikkor lenses, equipped with an autofocus motor

...a focus motor so this dumb point and shoot targeted body can use existing Nikon Pro glass instead of the new generation light weight DX lenses designed for this type of camera.

Sounds to me like the camera wont have a focus motor, but will rely on the focus motors in the lenses. I think the way that line was written is a bit misleading.

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 06:16 PM
That narrows the field down to only about 1000 forums.
Why can you just not post a link?


Are you serious?

The wink didnt give you a clue?

www.nikonians.org

Rooz
01-28-2008, 06:23 PM
how could nikon sell this though ? its a d40x called by a different name with a dust removal system. nah...this can;t be right.

accord2003
01-28-2008, 06:46 PM
I agreed. I can't believe this will be the upgrade. The next version must have 5 AF, LV and 2.7 LCD. If they wish to convert P/S shooters, they better have a bigger screen. I know most look for that as the number one choice.

mugsisme
01-28-2008, 06:50 PM
I would seriously debate getting it if it had more af points. I am really struggling with that now. (haha, coldy warned me a long time ago about that!)

I like the feel of the D40, but seriously doubt I would upgrade to a D90 if they come out with it. I was taking pictures with my Sigma lens and flash the other day and after a short while my hand started to cramp. It is just too much camera for my little hand.

It is weird that on that other review forum that the guy who posted it claims to be legit. It seems like everyone has accepted his leak about the lenses, but they are questioning the leak about the camera. Time will tell, right?

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 07:36 PM
how could nikon sell this though ? its a d40x called by a different name with a dust removal system. nah...this can;t be right.

Well, what exactly what you are looking for in an "upgrade" in the D40? Are you looking for it to be the same as a D80 but with Live View? What would that make the new D90? A D300 with a flip screen and an optional full frame format? That doesn't make good business sense.

I know everyone wants the next camera level up for the same price as the camera below, but you can only upgrade like that so much. Look at the XSi vs. 40D. They both offer almost the exact same features, but one is $400 less. Which one would you buy? What would you upgrade to after you found your XSi lacking? A 1D mkIII? Thats a hell of a jump.

I like the idea of a 4 camera system, all that range in their level of features, and skill level. All offer something new over the other, and come at price point equal to that of their features and intended market.

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again, I don't think "live view" is a feature that is required in an intro-DSLR. Just like 51 point autofocus is not needed. Just like user customized options are not needed. Just like a million buttons, dials, and knobs on the back are not needed. Many of these "features" which we say are required for our shooting drives up costs and adds additional confusion to the new user. The intro DSLR should be built around the idea of "KISS". Keep It Simple, Stupid! Produce a well built camera that delivers the goods for a good price.

Rooz
01-28-2008, 07:54 PM
51pts is nothing at all like LV. 51 pts is an advanced feature sure, the d90 will have maybe 21, but likely just improve its already very accurate 11pts. the d40 must have an improvement here, no question...even if its just 5 or 7 or 9 even. whether you "think" its necessary or not, LV is the future and it will definitely be as standard on all levels of dslr soon. then theres the screen, 2.7inch is the new MINIMUM. i think even then, they are already a gen behind 3inch.

so i ask again...whats the difference between this and a d40x ? nothing i can see apart from dust reduction, (which is a load of BS anyway), and better metering. (try selling better metering to a newb...i don't think so).

keep in mind here, i'm also commenting on this based on the price. if it comes in at $500 not so big an issue. (but still not a very good improvement), but $700 for that ? forget it, buy a d40. that camera as it stands now if it was $700 will be slaughtered by the a200 and k200 which have bigger screens and in body IS. i can;t see them selling any and no way could i in good faith recommend that camera with those specs to anyone looking around.

sony, pentax and olympus have been great for competition and a benefit for consumers. as a consequence, the bar has well and truly been raised for what manufacturers to keep up with consumers' expectations from an intro model dslr. and rightly so.

so for all those reasons, i don;t think this is an accurate source.

VTEC_EATER
01-28-2008, 08:12 PM
51pts is nothing at all like LV. 51 pts is an advanced feature sure, the d90 will have maybe 21, but likely just improve its already very accurate 11pts. the d40 must have an improvement here, no question...even if its just 5 or 7 or 9 even. whether you "think" its necessary or not, LV is the future and it will definitely be as standard on all levels of dslr soon. then theres the screen, 2.7inch is the new MINIMUM. i think even then, they are already a gen behind 3inch.

so i ask again...whats the difference between this and a d40x ? nothing i can see apart from dust reduction, (which is a load of BS anyway), and better metering. (try selling better metering to a newb...i don't think so).


Well, if Nikon really wanted to pull in more P&S photographers, they would work their asses off for a movie mode, but I don't see that on the horizon any time soon.

My guess is that if the new camera offers a CCD sensor, you will not get Live View. The CCD sensor requires way too much power and will probably have overheating issues just like the D200 had "sensor gain" problems with its long exposures. Maybe Sony is producing a new CMOS sensor for the D80 replacement and that is why that camera is not being introduced right now.

I don't know how Live View is the must have feature all of a sudden. I understand it works great for your Macro shots, but for every day shooting, and the other 90% of other shooting situations, it is not used. I'm not going to call it a gimmick, but its a much more advanced feature than you give it credit.

The 2.5" screen, I agree, is a bit on the small size, but if Nikon is looking to offer the smallest DSLR ever, a 3" screen increases the size.

The 3 pt. focus system, I do agree, is a bit weak, but for the intended market, it is probably enough. I would have thought the 11 pt. CAM1000 would have been put in, and a variant of the CAM2000 would be in teh D80 replacement, but this may not be the case. Hey, the 40D only offers 9 focus points, and thats supposed to be their semi-pro model.

K1W1
01-28-2008, 08:13 PM
I think I will pass on the D60 thanks.

It's interesting to see that Nikon have decided to follow Minolta / Konica / Sony with this feature.

"The D60 also includes a new feature that turns off the LCD monitor screen automatically when the viewfinder is in use."

The fact it's obviously aimed at the P&S upgrader market makes me wonder how long the D40 will be around and when the heck are Nikon going to offer a D80 replacement which is what I am really waiting for.

Jason25
01-28-2008, 08:14 PM
Well, now that I've seen the hands-on, I can honestly say I'm really not impressed. It's a D40x with EXPEED, the 18-55VR, more dust-busting stuff and a higher number. Oh well, no biggie.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012911nikond601st.asp

Rooz
01-28-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't know how Live View is the must have feature all of a sudden. I understand it works great for your Macro shots, but for every day shooting, and the other 90% of other shooting situations, it is not used. I'm not going to call it a gimmick, but its a much more advanced feature than you give it credit..

sorry, my fault. let me rephrase this...i'm not saying that I think LV is the must have feature. i'm saying that imo, the consumer considers LV as the must have feature. i personally love LV for macro, but for any other purpose its useless imo.

its just such a tangible selling point for intro users. a d60 without in body IS, without LV and with only a 2.5inch screen. these are all features that are valuable to P&S'rs and are easy to sell. if the d60 was released a year ago it'd stack up ok, but not in this marketplace. it looks old already.

Rooz
01-28-2008, 09:29 PM
well, vtec you were right. :)
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012910nikond60.asp

imo, nikon dropped the ball big time. just look at the RRP compared to the xsi. canon are laughing so hard they oughta put the ambo's on high alert.

K1W1
01-28-2008, 09:50 PM
Rooz,

I guess that you don't look at the front page of Dcresource.com very often. :)

That is what prompted my "I don't want one" comment of the previous page of this thread.

Rooz
01-28-2008, 09:54 PM
lol i dont think i've ever even seen the front page.

r3g
01-28-2008, 10:23 PM
So basically its a D40x with stop motion and a dust reduction system. BOOOO! Wonder if there will be any worth while IQ improvements. Still waiting for a D80 replacement!

K1W1
01-29-2008, 12:07 AM
The Nikon Australia web site (click in the Tech specs) (http://www.nikon.com.au/productitem.php?pid=1229-ca88cdad9e) lists this interesting little bit of information about the D60 specs

Depth of Field Preview Button Yes

I wonder if it's a mistake because I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else?

Rooz
01-29-2008, 12:26 AM
ohhh...thats convinced me now. NOW i can see the logic. lol :p
this would have to be the worst dslr "upgrade" ever seen.

which gets you to thinking...if this is the d40x replacement, then the d40 will have to be below that yeah ? cant very well have a d30 (??) with a 3inch screen and LV for example. so the the d30 will have the same bullshit "upgrade" from nikon. incredible really.

one can only hope that the d90 will be a significant jump forward.

dolphin
01-29-2008, 01:07 AM
OK, why you argue so much about the on-paper specifications ?
I think the most important is the IQ !

Take a look at these photos:
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/review/156/page_6.html
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/review/156/page_7.html

http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/producten/1776/testrapport/picture-d60.jpg (http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/producten/1776/testrapport/pictures-d60.jpg) http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/producten/1776/testrapport/picture-nikon-d60.jpg (http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/producten/1776/testrapport/pictures-nikon-d60.jpg) http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/producten/1776/testrapport/photo-d60.jpg (http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/producten/1776/testrapport/photos-d60.jpg)


Not bad at all in my opinion - this I call 100% Nikon IQ ;)

p.s and the noise level at iso 1600 is just amazing !

Rooz
01-29-2008, 01:27 AM
OK, why you argue so much about the on-paper specifications ?
I think the most important is the IQ !

Take a look at these photos:
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/review/156/page_6.html
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/review/156/page_7.html

Not bad at all in my opinion - this I call 100% Nikon IQ ;)

p.s and the noise level at iso 1600 is just amazing !

lol says the guy that hasn;t posted a single image yet. ;)

rawpaw18
01-29-2008, 03:01 AM
"The D60 also includes a new feature that turns off the LCD monitor screen automatically when the viewfinder is in use."



Well at least they kept the viewfinder!

Rooz
01-29-2008, 03:13 AM
lmfao oh man thats GOLD !

K1W1
01-29-2008, 03:24 AM
All that the D60 has done for me is convinced me that there is another new Nikon camera going to be released probably sooner rather than later.
The D60 is simply a entry level camera, nothing anybody can say can change that. It will replace both the D40 and D40x (Don't forget that Nikon NEVER EVER announce the end of a particular camera, that model just becomes unavailable quietly).
So look at the gap between the D60 and the D300.
Surely Nikon cannot be claiming that last weeks D80 firmware upgrade is enough to keep sales ticking over for D40 / D50 and D70 owners who want to upgrade but don't want to go "Pro" and into the D300 class.
Are we going to see a surprise announcement of another body at the PMA show? If not when is Nikons next opportunity to release something?

rawpaw18
01-29-2008, 03:30 AM
I completely agree with you Richard, they have to introduce another camera. Otherwise, there is a hole in the lineup big enough to drive a
CANON truck through.

K1W1
01-29-2008, 03:43 AM
BTW the only number left available to Nikon is 90. :D
So what happens after that? I guess we can look forward to a whole new Nikon nomenclature.

Cyberwlf
01-29-2008, 03:46 AM
Nikon taunt me so.... I've spent ages on trying to pick a dSLR, and was divided between D80/Pentax K10D/Sony A700. The latter two having various features the D80 didn't. Since then the D300 has come out, which is all i'd want in a new D80 and lots more, but seems a bit 'overboard' for my needs.

So i've been waiting with anticipation as i've seen new models rolled out. K20D for Pentax, Sony A700 being still pretty recent (and they released A200 too), Canon 450D, and now Nikon D60....a D40(x) upgrade, meaning Nikon have updated all but their D80 line now (with D3, D300, D60 all replacing the previous models).

Anyhow i still am hoping a D80x/D90 may appear at the trade show, and if it addresses the few issues I've seen their competitors and their new models address, I'll be pre-ordering that baby straight away!

Jason25
01-29-2008, 05:54 AM
If there's no other body announced at PMA, I wouldn't be surprised to see the D80's successor announced at Photokina in the fall.

VTEC_EATER
01-29-2008, 06:16 AM
You guys are going on like this is the end of Nikon.

I know we all thought it was the end of Nikon when they announced the D40, but look how well that camera sold, and how many new people it brought to Nikon.

This "new" camera is now even smaller and becoming much easier to throw in a purse than having to lug around a camera bag. Its another demographic Nikon is going after. Nikon will reel them in with this low priced "pocket-sized" DSLR and after they are hooked, NAS will take over. Soon they have a D80 and a few more lenses and are praising Nikon.

Simple formula to a successful business.

Rooz
01-29-2008, 09:29 AM
You guys are going on like this is the end of Nikon.

I know we all thought it was the end of Nikon when they announced the D40, but look how well that camera sold, and how many new people it brought to Nikon.

This "new" camera is now even smaller and becoming much easier to throw in a purse than having to lug around a camera bag. Its another demographic Nikon is going after. Nikon will reel them in with this low priced "pocket-sized" DSLR and after they are hooked, NAS will take over. Soon they have a D80 and a few more lenses and are praising Nikon.

Simple formula to a successful business.

oh come on vtec, lets not get melodramatic here, we're just taking the piss and having a running commentry on what imo is a pisspoor effort. no ones saying its "the end of nikon". :rolleyes:

imo they have just lost the momentum and their sales success over canon. that doesn't make a difference in our lives, its just an interesting discussion point. thats all. :)

tcadwall
01-29-2008, 10:39 AM
I kinda recall that the D200 was out for a while before the D80 came out. Actually didn't the D70s precede, or closely follow the D200? Gotta get my history straight.

In any case the D80 owes a lot to the D200. If someone wants to wait until the "next" model comes out, they might be doing that forever. Pull the trigger!

If the D80 follower indeed follows the D80 / D70 pattern, then the D90 will be based on the D300 and have some improvements, and some things stripped out. it will be more of a little brother to the D300 than a big brother to the D80.

Just my opinion... But if I am right, waiting for the D90 means later this year, not in the next couple of months.

Grapedog
01-29-2008, 11:48 AM
Just my opinion... But if I am right, waiting for the D90 means later this year, not in the next couple of months.



But Daddy, I want an Oopma Loompa NOW!

Rooz
01-30-2008, 02:48 PM
sony, pentax and olympus have been great for competition and a benefit for consumers. as a consequence, the bar has well and truly been raised for what manufacturers to keep up with consumers' expectations from an intro model dslr. and rightly so.

i love it when i'm right...cos it happens so rarely. :D:p

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08...lpha300350.asp (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08013004sonyalpha300350.asp)

with the a200/ 300/ 350 in the entry level it proves that canon have responded beautifully with the xsi which stacks up perfectly. but nikon have fallen well behind with the miserable d60. there are some nikon execs who should be sacked right now for their pathetic attempt to read the marketplace for what constitutes "entry level". they got it wrong by a long way.

K1W1
01-30-2008, 03:14 PM
Rooz you really need to broaden your web viewing horizons a bit. :D
Once again you are referring people to DPReview when the same information has been posted by Jeff (http://www.dcresource.com/) on this site. (http://www.dcresource.com/news/newsitem.php?id=3700) :D

That said I think we need some Jaws theme music playing in the background as we run around saying "Sony are coming, Sony are coming" It appears that Sony are very serious about DSLR photography and when Sony get serious about things that industry tends to shift on it's axis. Do I detect some tilting movements yet?

Jason25
01-30-2008, 03:20 PM
...when Sony get serious about things that industry tends to shift on it's axis.

The prime example of this being the Playstation. They came out of nowhere and brought Sega to their knees in a hurry (Dreamcast, anyone?). They also drove Nintendo into a tight corner (in the console market, anyway) that they're really only just now recovering from with the Wii.

Grapedog
01-30-2008, 03:24 PM
Well, I am encouraged to see that Sony had a second press release for , and we can only hope Nikon will do the same.


As much as the Canon forums are rife with complaints this week, at least with the XSi, Canon has a legitimate contender at the entry level. The D60 is definitely inferior, but less expensive. Notice how D60 pricing wasn't in the press release? It seems that Nikon was making a play for the price conscious consumer, but it has built its reputation on quality cameras, not bargain cameras. I want a Nikon, not a Yashica.

Right now, there's a gaping hole between CoolPix P&S and the D300. The D80 is yesterday's technology. The D60 is outclassed even before its release.

2008 is destined to be the year of the DSLR. Market analysts expect that this is the first time DSLRs will exceed 8 million units sold, which was the most ever film SLR sales in a single year (1984). If Nikon falls down now, they may never catch up, especially with the production power Sony has.
In the future, when they talk about the BIG 2 at the camera store, it might end up being Canon and Sony, not Canon and Nikon.

Of course, a tricked out D90 would change that. And I'd order one immediately if it's announced in the next week.

K1W1
01-30-2008, 03:49 PM
The prime example of this being the Playstation.


Young man let's go back to the days when Steve Jobs was still a hippy with long hair.
Sony released this product called a "Walkman". You may have read about these things called personal music players in your history books. I'm not sure whether they ever took off but they were fun at the time. :D:D:D:D

Jason25
01-30-2008, 03:54 PM
Young man let's go back to the days when Steve Jobs was still a hippy with long hair.
Sony released this product called a "Walkman". You may have read about these things called personal music players in your history books. I'm note sure whether they ever took off but they were fun at the time. :D:D:D:D

Okay okay, I'm not THAT young, and did own a couple of those at one time or another :) Let's say "the most recent example" being the Playstation :D

Cyberwlf
01-30-2008, 04:28 PM
Well this only leaves the PMA show itself to announce a D90, as the D80 is a dead duck in the water compared to these new string of releases.

ssil2000
01-30-2008, 07:02 PM
i have a theory on this, and i am more then likely way off the mark, but everyone is bagging the d60, now is it at all possible that the d60 will replace the d40.. not the d40x and fall into that bracket, and there may be a d60x which will fall inline/above the xsi and offer a few more frills like live view...

that would explain the minor upgrades on the d60, i mean nikon would of had a pretty good idea what canon was going to be releasing, so i doubt they would of gone ahead and released an inferior product like that.


i think the d40 thread has proven how a $600 (or less) kit can produce outstanding results, and maybe this is the role of the d60 keep the $600 kit market alive for nikon and offer a x version and for a couple hundred more you may get the d60x with more frills...

like i said, i am more then likely way off the mark but its my theory and i am stickin with it!!!

Sergio :D

e_dawg
01-31-2008, 12:24 AM
You know, that makes a lot of sense... Why would Nikon clearly have the edge over its competitors with the D300 with Canon people wondering why did Canon miss the mark so badly with their 40D and then now completely look like they were caught with their pants down with the D60?

I agree. I think the D60 is the new D40, and we'll see a deluxe model with higher resolution and/or some other features that will be the new D40x (D60x? D65?). And like the D40x, it may not be launched at the same time. Maybe we'll see it launched before the Olympics or at Photokina.

VTEC_EATER
01-31-2008, 06:30 AM
The D40 was an answer to the low-cost intro DSLR. It never really competed with the XTi. The D80 was more of a competitor to the XTI, and fell between it and the 30D.

I think I mentioned this in another thread, or maybe earlier in this thread, but the sequence goes:

D40........D60
XTi.........XSi
D80........D90 (???)
30D........40D
D200......D300

They all fall out like this. Many similarities, but no direct comparisons. They all fall between each other.

So lets not look at the D60 as an answer to the XSi, because that class of camera was not intended to "compete" with it. Lets wait to see what Nikon does for the D90 and draw conclusions from that.

Cyberwlf
01-31-2008, 07:48 AM
For those interested... PMA 2008 Show News, regularly updated - http://www.photomarketing.com/newsletter/shownews08.asp
and http://www.virtualpressoffice.com/show/index.jsp?showId=1181060943893

dxrocnxj
01-31-2008, 08:26 AM
so the d40's upgrade will be the d60 and has minimal new features.
i bet theyll put out a d80 replacement with groundbreaking features and call it the d80x.


nikon is ass backwards. :rolleyes:

Rooz
01-31-2008, 02:59 PM
i have a theory on this, and i am more then likely way off the mark, but everyone is bagging the d60, now is it at all possible that the d60 will replace the d40.. not the d40x and fall into that bracket, and there may be a d60x which will fall inline/above the xsi and offer a few more frills like live view...

that would explain the minor upgrades on the d60, i mean nikon would of had a pretty good idea what canon was going to be releasing, so i doubt they would of gone ahead and released an inferior product like that.


i think the d40 thread has proven how a $600 (or less) kit can produce outstanding results, and maybe this is the role of the d60 keep the $600 kit market alive for nikon and offer a x version and for a couple hundred more you may get the d60x with more frills...

like i said, i am more then likely way off the mark but its my theory and i am stickin with it!!!

Sergio :D

i agree that the d60 is the d40 replacement, i think we all kinda thought that anyway. even still...not good enuf of an upgrade unless its $500-600. but...it would appear its going to be listed at only $100 cheaper than the vastly superior xsi.

even if for arguments sake you said that $100 is "alot of money" and people cant afford to kick in the extra for the xsi, it still has to compete with the a300 and k200d which are pretty nifty bodies.

not sure there will even by a d60x..i wonder if they will bother with that level again ? maybe they'll just go straight to the d90 this time around ? seems that canon have abandoned the xt at any rate.

ssil2000
01-31-2008, 03:10 PM
i agree that the d60 is the d40 replacement, i think we all kinda thought that anyway. even still...not good enuf of an upgrade unless its $500-600. but...it would appear its going to be listed at only $100 cheaper than the vastly superior xsi.

even if for arguments sake you said that $100 is "alot of money" and people cant afford to kick in the extra for the xsi, it still has to compete with the a300 and k200d which are pretty nifty bodies.

not sure there will even by a d60x..i wonder if they will bother with that level again ? maybe they'll just go straight to the d90 this time around ? seems that canon have abandoned the xt at any rate.

i guess that is the question, are they going to focus with their mid range cameras (d80/90) and up and forgo the entry level... but i dont see that being a very smart marketing ploy as the entry level market is going to be the money maker over the next few years, i think the d90 will be a throttled down d300, i mean if its not they have really messed up... and i think if they offer a d60x in a few months which will drop the d60 price another 100ish and have the d60x sit at par or just above the xsi and offer live view and a couple of extra tid bits, i think they could corner the market for both the "i cant afford a dslr.. wait i can get a nikon kit for 500!" and the 800ish budget entry level who "want" live view and are willing to pay extra for it...

time will tell, but i am sticking with my theory :)

Sergio

K1W1
01-31-2008, 04:05 PM
not sure there will even by a d60x..

I doubt it.
The only reason for the D40x was that the D40 was released with 6MP right at the time when every other camera manufacturer was releasing 10MP entry level bodies and Nikon needed a quick and dirty fix to keep them in the entry level marketing game.
That situation does not apply with the D60.

Cyberwlf
01-31-2008, 04:39 PM
No news yet from Nikon re a D80 successor... But Sony's demoing their new 24mp full frame sensor camera, not due for release till probably late this year though.

fionndruinne
01-31-2008, 07:49 PM
What the heck? Nikon had so much going on the entry-level market, all they needed to do was add the new processor technology to a D40 along with a CMOS sensor, and a few more features maybe. Not... this. This is an A100!:eek:

Aldor88
02-01-2008, 02:47 PM
The D60 was a real dissapointment, oh well, when i eventually upgrade it will be for the D80 replacement anyways.
The Xsi seems interesting, so do the Sigma lenses. Nikon, where are the AF-S primes? :(.

Now lets see some 16-85VR test results...

erichlund
02-01-2008, 03:30 PM
Sheesh, guys. So Nikon didn't change the world with one of their introductions. It's still spinning on it's axis just fine. We still haven't seen how it really performs. If it produces clean photos at 1600 and beyond at 10mpixel, isn't that progress for an entry level Nikon? The D80 is good, but not great, and the D200 is must shoot RAW to even have a chance at 1600. We know the D3 and D300 have reset the bar. Did that filter down to the D60? If so, that's the real progress. It isn't like Nikon can't seem to move the formula. IIRC, isn't the D40 series the top selling dSLR?

And, I thought the Canon guys were tough on the XSi. :rolleyes:

K1W1
02-01-2008, 03:44 PM
Nikon, where are the AF-S primes? :(.


I can't understand why people assume that Nikon will ever build AF-S primes.
The only cameras in the range that must use AF-S lenses are the D40/x and D60. These cameras are only sold as kits and the vast majority of buyers will never change from the 18-55 or 18-135 lens that came with the camera. If they do it will be for a 70-300 or 55-200 anyway.
The number of D40 users who would buy and use AF-S primes would be so infinitesimally small that Nikon would be unlikely to care what those people want and by definition those people are moving to a more advanced level of photography and will be likley to buy a D80 or larger body anyway.
By NOT selling AF-S primes Nikon actually force (or give depending on how you look at it) people into an upgrade path and have a distinct differentiation between the consumer DSLR's and the Prosumer and Professional DSLRs.

Rooz
02-01-2008, 03:47 PM
isn't the D40 series the top selling dSLR?

And, I thought the Canon guys were tough on the XSi. :rolleyes:

yes it was the top selling dslr. that was then, this is now. the d40 started it all really, now it has to keep up in a rapidly changing dslr market. sony have turned this market on its head imo and things will never be the same.

there was no reason to criticize the xsi really. as an entry level camera its top of the heap right now, at least on paper.

the only way the d60 will be able to really hold its own is if the new expeed brain produces much better IQ than its sony competition or if its price drops down relatively quickly. forget the xsi, its not in the same ball park. i'd imagine that theres a pretty decent pre order, (and some excitement), for the xsi and the sony models. do you think anyones gonna be rushing to buy the d60 ? if so...why ?

the proof will be in the pudding. sony has the goods on paper, now lets see if its IQ is up to par where the a100 was a failure. there are alreay a couple of question marks; 2fps for the a350 and the dimmest VF'rs by some distance. the next few months will tell a heck of alot.

e_dawg
02-01-2008, 03:48 PM
i think nikon would do well to add a D60x or D65. The D60 is a bottom end entry-level camera that can't compete with the 12 MP or more feature-laden offerings from Canon and Sony that are not much more expensive than the D60. The sub $800 market is big and worth fighting for, but Nikon is only bringing a knife to a gun fight with the D60.

A D60x would allow them to compete with the XSi, A300, etc. The D90 would be too expensive for that market, and the sub $800 market is probably the biggest segment with the most potential new users for a mfr to bring into their "system".

erichlund
02-01-2008, 04:50 PM
I'm not certain that price is going to stay there. I expect you will see the price drop rapidly to D40 land, especially if the D40 is dropped as well as the D40x.

Here in the U.S., we have a wherehouse store called Costco. A while back they had pallets of D40x kits and Canon XTi Kits. The ordered more of the D40x kits, because they sold like hotcakes. But after the XTi Kits were gone, they did not order more of those. BTW, those D40x kits had the 18-55 and the 55-200VR.

We sometimes forget that most of the people buying these things are not nearly so well informed as we are. Nikon has built up a lot of steam with a series of great releases. Don't be too surprised if they keep that going. Some of the other brands we bandy about here, you will not even see unless you are seriously looking for them. Sony dSLRs can be hard to find, though they are in Best Buy. I've not seen them in an actual Camera shop, and we have a number here in Orange County. You cannot make a name for yourself if you don't distribute to the place where people buy. Pentax and Olympus are equally hard to find. Canon and Nikon are everywhere. People see that and react to it.

Yeah, Sony is making an aggressive move. But I wonder how many pros are actually going to buy their flagship, considering you have to buy the grip separately. They've been conditioned for years to expect a built in portrait grip on a pro camera.

We'll see what happens, but I'm just not going to be too surprised to find that things just don't change that fast.

Screenclutter
02-01-2008, 05:28 PM
Sheesh, guys. So Nikon didn't change the world with one of their introductions.

I agree, Nikon has already made their huge announcement last year with their D3, D300 and AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8 lens. People were actually excited by this release, and there were a lot of envious non-Nikon camera then. I'm not sure how people can expect an entry level product to blow people's minds out of the water the same way the D3 did.


The D60 was a real dissapointment, oh well, when i eventually upgrade it will be for the D80 replacement anyways.
Nikon, where are the AF-S primes?

The D60 is an upgrade for point-and-shoot cameras. There are already a fair number of AF-S primes out there, but they are mostly telephoto, and/or expensive. Instead, the truth is that people want a CHEAP AF-S wide aperture prime. As an example, I don't think Nikon makes any profit out of its 50mm primes, so to redesign these would not be cost effective.

On a side note, there were tons of people interested in this lens:
AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR
until the suggested 642 euro price was revealed. The enthusiasm kind of died down for this lens after that.

e_dawg
02-01-2008, 05:36 PM
I think people are still interested. I know I am. There's still a lot of demand for the 18-200/VR, which was about the same price when it was new.

K1W1
02-01-2008, 05:47 PM
Nikon is only bringing a knife to a gun fight

The last time I heard that the person who said it (Sean Connery) ended up dead in the stairwell a few moments later. :D:D

Rooz
02-01-2008, 06:26 PM
I think people are still interested. I know I am. There's still a lot of demand for the 18-200/VR, which was about the same price when it was new.


yes, but the 18-200 could be sold as an all-in-one lens where you dont need a tele. the 16-85 cannot claim that. RRP dont mean alot these days i suppose, but really, $800 for that lens ? what a dog of a deal. more like $300.

e_dawg
02-01-2008, 09:34 PM
Yes, it is more expensive than one would think, and admittedly not a very good value. But it does offer the very attractive option of having 16 mm on the wide end with AF-S and VR onboard. That makes it unmatched in the market. It's like the Olympus 12-60: really expensive, but still in demand.

While one could say the 18-200 has all-in-one capability such that you don't need a tele, I would argue that it doesn't go wide enough, and one would need to supplement it with a superwide zoom.

OTOH, I think the 16-85/VR is the ultimate single-lens walkaround / travel solution. Just wide enough where you don't need a superwide zoom, and long enough where you don't need a tele.

K1W1
02-01-2008, 10:10 PM
OTOH, I think the 16-85/VR is the ultimate single-lens walkaround / travel solution. Just wide enough where you don't need a superwide zoom, and long enough where you don't need a tele.

I agree.
For me that would probably be the perfect lens length wise (as close as any single lens would be). I would estimate that maybe 85% of my photos are in the range of that lens.
Of course if it were 15-100 f2.8 at the same price then it would be even more perfect, or maybe 10-120 f2.8, or... :)

erichlund
02-02-2008, 01:32 PM
I would not be surprised to see the 18-70 disappear with the introduction of this 16-85. This is the new high end kit lens. This is what will be kitted with the D300. The price will come down. Nikon likes early adapters to bleed a little. It won't come down to 18-70 range, but it does have VR. Still, having a 17-55 f2.8, I can't see getting a lens in the same range just to get VR. Expect this to have on demand manual focus, like the other high end lenses. It will have significantly better build quality as well. Two ED and three Aspherical elements. It sounds like they put some real effort into it. It will be interesting to see how it performs. Maybe it will be one of the early Nikkors tested under DPR's new lens reviews.

Speaking of DPR's lens reviews, did you read the Canon 18-55IS review. They really don't care for how that thing is built. And Rhys's 17-85 is OK so long as you don't really want to use the wide end. Suppose it doesn't really matter. You can't mount them on a D200 anyway. :rolleyes:

K1W1
02-02-2008, 08:45 PM
Expect this to have on demand manual focus, like the other high end lenses.

If you look at the photos you can see that that is correct.
The M /A switch is marked M and M/A.
It also has a depth of field scale and the focus ring closest to the camera body, things missing from recent lower spec lenses which indicates that this is build as a higher end product not something for the D60 kit lens market.

http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0801/nikon/nikkor_1685.jpg