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TenD
01-21-2008, 05:21 PM
Sell:
Canon 10D
Canon 28-135 f/3.5-5.6
Canon 80-200 f/2.8L
Canon 300 f/4L

This should just about finance the first purchase:

Buy:
Canon 5D Bundle with 24-105 f/4L IS
Canon 100-400 f/3.5-5.6L IS

That would make my bag look like this:
Canon Rebel XT
Canon 5D
Canon 35 f/2
Canon 50 f/1.8
Tokina 12-24 f/4, this one probably will also go in the sale column depending how the 17-40 looks on the 5D
Canon 17-40 f/4L
Canon 24-105 f/4L IS
Canon 100-400 f/3.5-5.6L IS

I am mostly a landscape photographer and use a tripod as needed. I also shoot some wildlife and occasional sports, specifically sky diving. Any other suggestions are entertained.

Rhys
01-21-2008, 05:31 PM
Sell:
Canon 10D
Canon 28-135 f/3.5-5.6
Canon 80-200 f/2.8L
Canon 300 f/4L

This should just about finance the first purchase:

Buy:
Canon 5D Bundle with 24-105 f/4L IS
Canon 100-400 f/3.5-5.6L IS

That would make my bag look like this:
Canon Rebel XT
Canon 5D
Canon 35 f/2
Canon 50 f/1.8
Tokina 12-24 f/4, this one probably will also go in the sale column depending how the 17-40 looks on the 5D
Canon 17-40 f/4L
Canon 24-105 f/4L IS
Canon 100-400 f/3.5-5.6L IS

I am mostly a landscape photographer and use a tripod as needed. I also shoot some wildlife and occasional sports, specifically sky diving. Any other suggestions are entertained.

Why? I can understand wanting to replace the 10D and the XT. What I would recommend is replacing both the 10D and the XT with maybe a pair of 30Ds or a pair of XTis. I can't see why you want to sell the 300 lens. Why not just buy a 1.4TC for it?

Personally, I think for landscapes, skydiving and wildlife, the XT is in its element. None of those are particularly challenging for the AF system. Unless there's a serious problem with what you have, I'd leave well alone and use what I had instead of spending money.

TenD
01-21-2008, 05:48 PM
Part of the reason for the upgrade is to go full frame. The XT will do fine for wildlife and sports and the 5D should shine in landscape. The 300 is a fine lens, sharp and definitely L quality. It also doesn't see much time on my camera. The 80-200 is mounted on my body in the bag with the Tokina or 17-40 mounted on the XT most of the time. The 100-400 would provide for versatility in my long lens and I would get my bag down to 3 or 4 high quality lenses encompassing the same range as the 5 or 6 lenses residing in my bag now.

Mark_48
01-21-2008, 06:14 PM
I've had a 30D for a while now and just recently got a 5D. Holy crap what a difference!! I look at the images from the 5D and I'm thinking this is looking close to MF film. Low noise at higher ISO's also. Probably your Tokina will disappear from lack of use. I've got a Tamron 17-35 that on the FF does real nice, so the 17-40 for landscapes will be all you'd want for wide.
Overall you'd have a good range of coverage with some overlap in focal lengths. And the plus would be a lighter bag. I've got the 100-400 as well and I do like it for wildlife. Not sure how it would compare to the 300 prime though.

Mark....

Rhys
01-21-2008, 07:20 PM
Part of the reason for the upgrade is to go full frame. The XT will do fine for wildlife and sports and the 5D should shine in landscape. The 300 is a fine lens, sharp and definitely L quality. It also doesn't see much time on my camera. The 80-200 is mounted on my body in the bag with the Tokina or 17-40 mounted on the XT most of the time. The 100-400 would provide for versatility in my long lens and I would get my bag down to 3 or 4 high quality lenses encompassing the same range as the 5 or 6 lenses residing in my bag now.

Fair enough. The 5D does have better IQ. I find my 30D has better IQ than my XT.

Is there any reason why you're keeping the XT? I'm keeping mine because it was a wedding present.

If I were in your position... I'd sell:
Tokina 12-24
XT
10D
300 L
50
28-135 f/3.5-5.6
80-200 f/2.8L

I'd get the 5D and do with just one camera. The 17-40L will be slightly wider than your 12-24. Then, of course - your 24-105 and 100-400.

Unless you absolutely truly need two cameras, I'd stick with one and wait until I could afford the next. Having two the same - as you know by now - is ideal. This is why I almost bought a second XT.

Nickcanada
01-21-2008, 07:49 PM
I'm in a fisheye phase so you need one too! :p I mean come on, skydiving needs to be shot ultra wide and up close!!! lol .... or you know a Sigma 12-24mm would be pretty cool on that 5D!!! I know someone selling one. ;) okay sorry I couldn't help myself.:o:D

TenD
01-21-2008, 08:11 PM
Fair enough. The 5D does have better IQ. I find my 30D has better IQ than my XT.

Is there any reason why you're keeping the XT? I'm keeping mine because it was a wedding present.

If I were in your position... I'd sell:
Tokina 12-24
XT
10D
300 L
50
28-135 f/3.5-5.6
80-200 f/2.8L

I'd get the 5D and do with just one camera. The 17-40L will be slightly wider than your 12-24. Then, of course - your 24-105 and 100-400.

Unless you absolutely truly need two cameras, I'd stick with one and wait until I could afford the next. Having two the same - as you know by now - is ideal. This is why I almost bought a second XT.

How is having two of the same camera ideal, I guess I don't know this...do tell? I think the combo of a full frame for the wide angle of things and a crop camera for telephoto to be ideal.

Slap the 100-400 on the XT and have the equivalent of 160-640, while having a super wide with the 17-40 on the 5D. Toss the 24-105 on either and have the midrange covered very well. Seems ideal to me. I will have no problem handling either camera, the differences are minimal as far as handling goes. I switch back and forth from the XT to the 10D now with minimal handling problems.

I like carrying the XT with me at work as it's small and fits in smaller spaces. The 10D is still going strong, but is getting a little long in the tooth, although thoughts of keeping it and selling the XT always go through my head. I have never stipulated a budget on this, and never said I was having difficulty affording the upgrade. I am trying to accomplish this without spending a lot of money, but the budget is there for this.

TenD
01-21-2008, 08:14 PM
I'm in a fisheye phase so you need one too! :p I mean come on, skydiving needs to be shot ultra wide and up close!!! lol .... or you know a Sigma 12-24mm would be pretty cool on that 5D!!! I know someone selling one. ;) okay sorry I couldn't help myself.:o:D

That would provide for some interesting shots. That bag I describe would be the grab it and go bag. It covers all I would need in a relatively light package. I would put in a special lens or two(primes I think)in too. I have a 50 f/1.8 mkI and am looking at a 35 f/2 and prolly a fishy in the future.

VTEC_EATER
01-21-2008, 09:00 PM
I think the combo of a full frame for the wide angle of things and a crop camera for telephoto to be ideal.

That theory is correct, I suppose, but if you really think of the wide end of things, the Canon 10-22 on your XT provides 16-35 on your XT vs 17-40 on the 5D. Not much of a difference if you ask me.

There are a few things that I can possibly see being an advantage to full frame:

1) high speed prime lenses: No manufacturer produces an equivalent "crop" sensor high speed prime. No way will you be able to replicate the 24/1.4L on an XT body. Just wont happen any time soon. In fact, most all high speed primes dont have a "crop" sensor equivalent. Its unfortunate, but thats just how it is.

2) percieved increased depth of field: While we all know a lens, is a lens, is a lens, on any body, the "increase" in depth of field that you recieve on a full frame camera is something many pro's rave about. Im personally not seeing it, but there sure is a large proponent of full frame shooters who love their "increase" in depth of field.

3) Potential for increased high ISO imaqe quality: While the 5D is a very nice performer in the high ISO department, cameras like the 40D are catching up rapidly. The development of crop sensors seems to be developing faster than that of the full frame sensors. Maybe its becasue the volume of crop cameras to FF cameras. Im not quite sure. One thing I do know, the 5D is not as spectacular as it was at its introduction. It still renders great amounts of detail in the image, but its noise characteristics are not shining like they once were.

So when it comes to full frame vs. crop, its a bit of a toss up comparing the 5D to anything brand new. The 40D offers many features that the 5D never had, or ever will have. However, the 5D will possibly deliver the slightest bit better image quality than the 40D. I suppose it depends on how you intend to use it, and if you can live with the "lack" of features that the 5D has vs. the 40D.

TenD
01-21-2008, 09:37 PM
That theory is correct, I suppose, but if you really think of the wide end of things, the Canon 10-22 on your XT provides 16-35 on your XT vs 17-40 on the 5D. Not much of a difference if you ask me.

There are a few things that I can possibly see being an advantage to full frame:

1) high speed prime lenses: No manufacturer produces an equivalent "crop" sensor high speed prime. No way will you be able to replicate the 24/1.4L on an XT body. Just wont happen any time soon. In fact, most all high speed primes dont have a "crop" sensor equivalent. Its unfortunate, but thats just how it is.

2) percieved increased depth of field: While we all know a lens, is a lens, is a lens, on any body, the "increase" in depth of field that you recieve on a full frame camera is something many pro's rave about. Im personally not seeing it, but there sure is a large proponent of full frame shooters who love their "increase" in depth of field.

3) Potential for increased high ISO imaqe quality: While the 5D is a very nice performer in the high ISO department, cameras like the 40D are catching up rapidly. The development of crop sensors seems to be developing faster than that of the full frame sensors. Maybe its becasue the volume of crop cameras to FF cameras. Im not quite sure. One thing I do know, the 5D is not as spectacular as it was at its introduction. It still renders great amounts of detail in the image, but its noise characteristics are not shining like they once were.

So when it comes to full frame vs. crop, its a bit of a toss up comparing the 5D to anything brand new. The 40D offers many features that the 5D never had, or ever will have. However, the 5D will possibly deliver the slightest bit better image quality than the 40D. I suppose it depends on how you intend to use it, and if you can live with the "lack" of features that the 5D has vs. the 40D.

If you have read some of my past posts I am of the "old school" theory on photography. I have debated the 40D vs the 5D quite a bit in my mind. I still haven't completely eliminated the 40D yet. The 40D's features really don't do anything for me. I am totally happy with what my 10D has on it for features.

I miss the large viewfinder of my film camera, I miss knowing a lens by it's focal length(I have to do a bit of extra thinking now;...and with my brain...), I miss the even shallower DOF provided by the larger sensor. I guess my mind is pretty well made up, but I am mostly wondering if there is something that I might have missed in my analysis.

The 5D will stay in my collection for a long time, just like the 10D has so far.

The other thing I am thinking of is keeping the 10D over the XT. BP-511s in both cameras, same cable release. Makes some sense to me.

24Peter
01-21-2008, 09:54 PM
Wow! - $2749 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484816-REG/Canon_0296B113_EOS_5D_Digital_Camera.html

TenD
01-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Wow! - $2749 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484816-REG/Canon_0296B113_EOS_5D_Digital_Camera.html

Yeah a pretty good deal right now. It will probably get a little better, but I think I am ready now. That price is what started me thinking along these lines.

cdifoto
01-21-2008, 10:17 PM
I prefer the slow 10D to the faster (former) XTs.

coldrain
01-22-2008, 04:27 AM
The 5D has a bit more dynamic feel to the photos, yes. And a higher resolution (8 vs 12.7 mp). So on paper the 5D seems to be a better landscape camera just because of that.

But there are also downsides to the full frame 5D. The wider chip does cause quite a bit of light fall off with wider focal lengths. This light fall off can go up to 2 f-stops, which can be very noticeable, especially in landscapes.
The XT does not have that problem with its APS-C sensor.

The new DPP does correct "vignetting" to some extent I think, but not with the 5D?

And then there are the lenses. The wide ultra wide angle lenses for APS-C, lik ethe Canon 10-22 and the Tokina 12-24 have less distortion than the full frame counterparts.

And you do not really need the more shallow depth of field offered by a full frame either, with landscape photography.

So... do take these two things into consideration. Yes, a 5D is a great camera, but there are some downsides too.

And then there is this other landscape camera option (which comes with its own tablet computer):
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm

michaelb
01-22-2008, 05:17 AM
Your plan sounds fairly good to me. I found the decison between the 40D and the 5D a difficult one. I have been very happy with the 40D, but one of these days I will probably pick up a 5D to see if I really am missing something.

Many people who have made the switch to FF seem to think there is a significant improvement in their images, but I've yet to see the "proof" of this, except perhaps at high ISO, where I do believe the 5D is better.

Rhys
01-22-2008, 09:23 AM
How is having two of the same camera ideal, I guess I don't know this...do tell? I think the combo of a full frame for the wide angle of things and a crop camera for telephoto to be ideal.

Slap the 100-400 on the XT and have the equivalent of 160-640, while having a super wide with the 17-40 on the 5D. Toss the 24-105 on either and have the midrange covered very well. Seems ideal to me. I will have no problem handling either camera, the differences are minimal as far as handling goes. I switch back and forth from the XT to the 10D now with minimal handling problems.

I like carrying the XT with me at work as it's small and fits in smaller spaces. The 10D is still going strong, but is getting a little long in the tooth, although thoughts of keeping it and selling the XT always go through my head. I have never stipulated a budget on this, and never said I was having difficulty affording the upgrade. I am trying to accomplish this without spending a lot of money, but the budget is there for this.

I can understand liking the smaller XT for portability. I would go for two cameras the same because that way you instinctively know where the controls are. They act the same. Imagine driving a normal car and having another in the garage with the control pedals reversed. You'd get used to one then when you wanted to drive the other you'd be stuffed until you got back into the swing of it and then the same when you switched back.