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theSundanceKid
01-04-2005, 09:58 PM
I'm looking for a digital SLR with the following features:

* 7+ megapixels
* Movie mode with audio (record time limited only by memory size)
* Macro mode
* Must be powered by regular batteries, e.g. AA or AAA, (NOT lithium ion)
* 35-300mm OR 35-350mm zoom
* < $1000

The Nikon Cooolpix 8800 appeared to fit the bill very well, except that it used a rechargeable lithium ion; can't have that. I'm adamant about the camera not using lithium ion because it is so damn expensive to replace. Also, it is highly inconvenient when you are out and about and need to recharge the lithium ion. Regular batteries are much easier to find when you're in a bind and much cheaper too. I don't know why they even use lithium ions, when a regular rechargeable battery would suffice.

At any rate, I am hoping to buy this sometime later this year, perhaps September 2005. I'm not nearly as knowledge about digital cameras as many of you in this forum are, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

timmciglobal
01-04-2005, 11:59 PM
#1: The nikon you mention isn't a dSLR.

dSLR all have replaceable lenses, and most also feature extremly low noise sensors (also large sensors)

You're looking for whats more refered to as "long zoom digital cameras"

Tim

D70FAN
01-05-2005, 02:21 AM
I'm looking for a digital SLR with the following features:

* 7+ megapixels
* Movie mode with audio (record time limited only by memory size)
* Macro mode
* Must be powered by regular batteries, e.g. AA or AAA, (NOT lithium ion)
* 35-300mm OR 35-350mm zoom
* < $1000

The Nikon Cooolpix 8800 appeared to fit the bill very well, except that it used a rechargeable lithium ion; can't have that. I'm adamant about the camera not using lithium ion because it is so damn expensive to replace. Also, it is highly inconvenient when you are out and about and need to recharge the lithium ion. Regular batteries are much easier to find when you're in a bind and much cheaper too. I don't know why they even use lithium ions, when a regular rechargeable battery would suffice.

At any rate, I am hoping to buy this sometime later this year, perhaps September 2005. I'm not nearly as knowledge about digital cameras as many of you in this forum are, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

Let's take this one at a time in a different order:

* dSLR's do not have a movie mode.

* On a dSLR Macro requires a special lens which typically will allow focus down to about 7 inches. All-in-one cameras offer macro focus below 5cm.

* A dSLR with 7+ Megapixels moves you up to the Canon 20D (about $1500 for the body). Lenses to cover your requirements will add another $500+.

* The only dSLR powered by AA rechargables is the Fuji S2 and the (not yet available) S3 Pro (~$2000 Body Only) These are 6MP with 12MP interpolation.

* Less Than $1000 (see above).

The CP8800 and the Konica-Minolta A2 are not dSLR's but are the only all-in-ones that would meet your requirements. Except battery type. Both are powered by LiIon rechargables.

As a side note:

The requirement for rechargable AA's, especially in a $1000 digital camera, is a little bit "dark-ages" when you realize that NiMH has a few problems of its own, such as fairly quick self-discharge and being more difficult to handle (you will find this out when you go to change batteries). You should be able to buy a spare LiIon or two for less than $40 each. Again you don't know what a pain AA's can be until they are rolling down the sidewalk, or worse yet into tall, wet grass, as you fumble them trying to make a quick change, and end up missing the shot. Personal experience.

As a final note on AA's: Alkaline AA's in consumer digicams will only last for 40-50 frames at the very best. So relying on buying AA alkalines to save your bacon is somewhat of a wives-tale. You will find that most of the time when you need emergency fresh power you are in the middle of nowhere and there are no stores available anyway.

All-in-all, LiIon is a minor compromise for what you require.

The only other ultra-zoom that uses AA's is the Canon S1 IS, but that is a compromise as it is only a 3.2MP imager. If you are really rabid about the AA battery thing then this might be your camera at less than half the price. Printing at 8 x 10 or below you probably won't notice much difference.

Good hunting...

Rhys
01-05-2005, 05:31 AM
I'm looking for a digital SLR with the following features:

* 7+ megapixels
* Movie mode with audio (record time limited only by memory size)
* Macro mode
* Must be powered by regular batteries, e.g. AA or AAA, (NOT lithium ion)
* 35-300mm OR 35-350mm zoom
* < $1000

The Nikon Cooolpix 8800 appeared to fit the bill very well, except that it used a rechargeable lithium ion; can't have that. I'm adamant about the camera not using lithium ion because it is so damn expensive to replace. Also, it is highly inconvenient when you are out and about and need to recharge the lithium ion. Regular batteries are much easier to find when you're in a bind and much cheaper too. I don't know why they even use lithium ions, when a regular rechargeable battery would suffice.

At any rate, I am hoping to buy this sometime later this year, perhaps September 2005. I'm not nearly as knowledge about digital cameras as many of you in this forum are, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks!


Ok. The 8800 does not have an expensive Lion battery. I've seen them brand new for ten pounds. That's very cheap. It's also interchangable with the 2CR5 lithium battery that the Canon EOS system used.

In terms of DSLRs that use AA batteries, the only two I can think of are the Fuji S1, S2 and the Pentax *ist. Personally, I wouldn't touch the latter with a bargepole even if the bargepole was protected by a large condom!

theSundanceKid
01-05-2005, 12:07 PM
Thank you gentleman. Excellent info.

Jredtugboat
01-10-2005, 08:51 PM
There's another course here if you are talking about buying a dSLR. In terms of AA batteries, you could also explore using the various optional grips. I'm thinking about the Canon EOS-20D, for example. You can get an optional grip (the BG-E2) which houses either the BP-511a or six AA batteries.

I definitely like the option of using AAs when you're out on the road and not due to hit the motel for a night's charging. AAs are easy to get, and fairly cheap. I'd still buy an extra Li-Ion battery, though--I really hate throwing out AAs into the waste stream, and rechargeable AAs require yet another electronic device that I am prone to leave behind, along with my sweater, scarf, and miscellaneous (single) socks...

Julian

Jeff Keller
01-10-2005, 10:25 PM
Let's take this one at a time in a different order:

* A dSLR with 7+ Megapixels moves you up to the Canon 20D (about $1500 for the body). Lenses to cover your requirements will add another $500+.


Don't forget about the Olympus EVOLT E-300! 8 Megapixel with a lens for $1000!

D70FAN
01-11-2005, 05:38 AM
Don't forget about the Olympus EVOLT E-300! 8 Megapixel with a lens for $1000!

You're right. I need to get out and try one. It lacks some of the versatility of it's competitiors, but has some interesting points.

I hate to sound nit-pick, but I really rely on the top mouned LCD info display vs. screwing around with the review LCD. And what about IS lenses and normal 2X crop?

What happened to the review? Steves reviews wear me out, and the conclusions are getting tedious.

Rhys
01-11-2005, 06:46 AM
You're right. I need to get out and try one. It lacks some of the versatility of it's competitiors, but has some interesting points.

I hate to sound nit-pick, but I really rely on the top mouned LCD info display vs. screwing around with the review LCD. And what about IS lenses and normal 2X crop?

What happened to the review? Steves reviews wear me out, and the conclusions are getting tedious.

I'm getting quite enthused by the idea of that Minolta. Now personally, I don't like Minolta - I've probably been predjudiced a bit because the people I found to be most obnoxious in a local camera club all owned Minoltas or Contaxes. I tended to stick with the Nikon, Canon and Miranda users.

I do admit that I like the idea of a stabilised image. The idea of stabilising by moving the CCD seems very good. I wonder what putfalls await the user though. I can imagine that shaking the sensor like that could well eliminate the dust on the sensor problem.

Wasn't there a 1.3megapixel Olympus with a 4x zoom that had an image stabiliser and an optical viewfinder - i think it even hadf a flip-up mirror?

Of course, my ideal DSLR would have:
1. A Nikon mount.
2. Would take my AI and AIS lenses plus Q lenses.
3. It would take AA batteries or ENEL1s/2CR5s
4. Would be small and lightweight.
5. Would not have a built-in flash.
6. Would have a PC socket and DOF lever.
7. Probably around 12 megapixels.

D70FAN
01-11-2005, 10:20 AM
I'm getting quite enthused by the idea of that Minolta. Now personally, I don't like Minolta - I've probably been predjudiced a bit because the people I found to be most obnoxious in a local camera club all owned Minoltas or Contaxes. I tended to stick with the Nikon, Canon and Miranda users.

I do admit that I like the idea of a stabilised image. The idea of stabilising by moving the CCD seems very good. I wonder what putfalls await the user though. I can imagine that shaking the sensor like that could well eliminate the dust on the sensor problem.

Wasn't there a 1.3megapixel Olympus with a 4x zoom that had an image stabiliser and an optical viewfinder - i think it even hadf a flip-up mirror?

Of course, my ideal DSLR would have:
1. A Nikon mount.
2. Would take my AI and AIS lenses plus Q lenses.
3. It would take AA batteries or ENEL1s/2CR5s
4. Would be small and lightweight.
5. Would not have a built-in flash.
6. Would have a PC socket and DOF lever.
7. Probably around 12 megapixels.

Have you looked at the new Fuji S3 Pro? I am seriously leaning toward this camera for my next dSLR (in a couple of years). In talking to a couple of guys I know that own and use the S2 Pro professionally I have come to understand the Super CCD II in a different light, literally. The difference in dynamic range is subtle, but very visible, especially in shadows.

It's Nikon mount, and may work with your old glass, Uses AA batteries, is smallish by pro standards, has a built-in flash, but you can easily disable it, has a PC socket and DOF button (most dSLRs have the DOF button) AND finally it is 12MP.

And there you have it. For $2000 you finally have the camera you want. :)

Rhys
01-11-2005, 10:32 AM
Have you looked at the new Fuji S3 Pro? I am seriously leaning toward this camera for my next dSLR (in a couple of years). In talking to a couple of guys I know that own and use the S2 Pro professionally I have come to understand the Super CCD II in a different light, literally. The difference in dynamic range is subtle, but very visible, especially in shadows.

It's Nikon mount, and may work with your old glass, Uses AA batteries, is smallish by pro standards, has a built-in flash, but you can easily disable it, has a PC socket and DOF button (most dSLRs have the DOF button) AND finally it is 12MP.

And there you have it. For $2000 you finally have the camera you want. :)

Not quite. I gather that the S3 Pro does exactly the same stupid thing as Nikon's D70 and D100 - it'll accept an AI or AIS lens but won't meter or assist with focus confirmation!

I forgot also to mention image stabilisation - that'd be a neat thing to put on the camera like Minolta rather than added gumph on every single lens!

The most damning endightement of Fuji's S3 Pro is to be found here: http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/PRPrintableNewsDetail.jsp?DBID=NEWS_708657

D70FAN
01-11-2005, 10:59 AM
Not quite. I gather that the S3 Pro does exactly the same stupid thing as Nikon's D70 and D100 - it'll accept an AI or AIS lens but won't meter or assist with focus confirmation!

I forgot also to mention image stabilisation - that'd be a neat thing to put on the camera like Minolta rather than added gumph on every single lens!

The most damning endightement of Fuji's S3 Pro is to be found here: http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/PRPrintableNewsDetail.jsp?DBID=NEWS_708657


I guess you need to be more specific on the "damning indictment" part.

Also metering should be a yes, focus confirmation is a maybe. You can also use all existing Nikon speedlights or maybe even your old Metz 45. ;)

Rhys
01-11-2005, 01:03 PM
I guess you need to be more specific on the "damning indictment" part.

Also metering should be a yes, focus confirmation is a maybe. You can also use all existing Nikon speedlights or maybe even your old Metz 45. ;)


A total and utter lack of support from Nikon for AI and AIS lenses is inexcusable. The same casual disregard from Fuji indicates they're just jumping on the bandwaggon without caring about the end product.

Nikon seems to be telling great big lies about its lens intercompatibility and it's claims to backward compatibility seem to be nothing but thin air. This is why when/if I get a DSLR it will probably NOT be Nikon. I don't find it remotely amusing that my existing and extensive crop of lenses should be considered by Nikon as not worth supporting. It would have been so easy for them to put a focussing aid into their D70 and to allow metering. The only reason I can see why Nikon did that is to make sure they got even more money coming in. Greed - sheer, dirty, festering unadultarated greed!

I have been looking with interest at Canon. The Olympus system has some merit because it's all deliberately designed around digital. The Minolta has some merit because of the image stabiliser too. I shall wait with baited breath to see what the next 12 months brings in DSLRs.

Ant
01-11-2005, 02:33 PM
Hey Rhys, your old Nikon Lenses may actually work on Canon DSLRs using this little toy:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/nikcan.htm

:)

D70FAN
01-11-2005, 03:22 PM
Hey Rhys, your old Nikon Lenses may actually work on Canon DSLRs using this little toy:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/nikcan.htm

:)

Yup. Pretty interesting. I wonder if there is a Canon lens to Nikon adapter? Canon IS lenses are certainly more affordable than equivalent Nikkors. :)

Rhys
01-11-2005, 03:28 PM
Yup. Pretty interesting. I wonder if there is a Canon lens to Nikon adapter? Canon IS lenses are certainly more affordable than equivalent Nikkors. :)

I actually know about this device already. A few weeks ago, I commented on it on this very board.

It's quite expensive and to my mind, as it costs the same as a decent range digital AF lens, isn't that advantageous.

scalia
01-16-2005, 03:03 AM
I heard that Nikon has a patent about VR on a lens converter, that way we can have VR on every lenses and every body... don't know why they not produce that thing yet... marketing I guess

D70FAN
01-16-2005, 07:59 AM
I heard that Nikon has a patent about VR on a lens converter, that way we can have VR on every lenses and every body... don't know why they not produce that thing yet... marketing I guess

Any chance you can direct us to this information? Sounds interesting. Maybe the Minolta AS cameras will drive them to finally release this type of converter.

Rhys
01-16-2005, 08:00 AM
I heard that Nikon has a patent about VR on a lens converter, that way we can have VR on every lenses and every body... don't know why they not produce that thing yet... marketing I guess

I've actually been looking at the E1 with interest. I'm nowhere near ready to buy a DSLR yet though. I'm still very happy with my S1/3100/995 combination.

It would be a sensible idea to me, to combine all the innovative attributes that are coming out now in a new camera:

Olympus's rattling ccd seems a good idea as it shakes dust off.
Minolta's anti-shake ccd seems also a good idea.
Canon's cheaper lenses seem a good idea.

My own pet desire would be for a camera that had interchangable battery compartments so that the user had a choice as to whether to use 2CR5/ENEL1, AA or some funky manufacturer's special battery. Personally I prefer AA over anything and everything else. I'll put up with thumbing in loads of AAs for the security of knowing I can get replacements easily.

I'm also a fan of LCD viewfinders. I want to see what I'm getting rather than what I think I'm getting.

Jredtugboat
01-17-2005, 09:04 AM
My own pet desire would be for a camera that had interchangable battery compartments so that the user had a choice as to whether to use 2CR5/ENEL1, AA or some funky manufacturer's special battery. Personally I prefer AA over anything and everything else. I'll put up with thumbing in loads of AAs for the security of knowing I can get replacements easily.


Rhys,

When you say 'interchangeable battery compartments', are you thinking of an external battery grip? I don't know about the D70, but both the KM 7D and the EOS-20D have available external battery packs/grips. In both cases I think they make the camera easier to hold, although, of course the kit will be a good deal larger as a result.

Personally I'm interested in checking out the new Sony rechargeable AAs. I think they hold 2300 maH.

jeisner
01-17-2005, 03:47 PM
^^ I use Inca 2500 Mah rechargeables, seem to work well ;)

D70FAN
01-17-2005, 03:59 PM
Rhys,

Personally I'm interested in checking out the new Sony rechargeable AAs. I think they hold 2300 maH.

Just as important as the batteries is a competent charger. I have had about a dozen chargers over the years and the only chargers that are consistant are the MAHA C204F's (the MAHA C204W is the worldwide voltage version).

Also there are several NiMH's now that are at 2400mAh to 2500mAh rating. 2300mAh has become the standard. You can get both here:

http://nimhbattery.com/batteries.htm

I recommend avoiding the Lenmars, as I have had problems with them in the past. All the rest should be fine.