Thought I was ready to buy but need some last minuet help

[nubz69]

I thought I had finally decided to buy my first DSLR. I have been very unhappy with point and shoots and have been looking into DSLRs for a few years now. Being a student it has been hard trying to afford one (if someone know about some student discounts please let me know). I was hoping that tomorrow I would be buying my first and had almost 100% decided on the d40x. I had been looking between the d40x, the a100 and the rebel xti. The only reason I was looking into the a100 was the image stabilization and the fact that I have a Minolta maxxium 5 with a pretty good lens currently. Once I researched it more the a 100 is definitely not what I want, the a700 is but it is way to much money. This has left me with the d40x and the xti to chose from and I was leaning towards the d40x. This is because the kit lens was very nice (I eventually would buy a Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR lens for it when I could afford it) and from reading many opinions it needed less tinkering to get great shots out of the box then the Cannon. My only problem with the d40x is the fact that it can't use older lenses with the auto focus, I guess thats not a big deal but I know I have seen some cheap old nice lenses at garage sales and such and it's a shame I won't be able to use them (think someone will make an add on ring/adapter to make older lenses auto focus usable?).

My problem is that it has been announced that there is a d40x replacement, the d60 coming in spring. I know that if I keep waiting for the next best thing I will end up waiting forever and never taking any pictures. Is it something worth waiting to hear the announcement on or should this steer me to the xti?

I don't have one format I work in but I do like to make some of my prints big, (poster size) and have it look sharp from a 2-3 feet away. I plan on working in both light and dark conditions and both inside and out. What bugged me most about my point and shoot 6mp camera is just how fuzzy the pictures came out no matter how well they were taken, great for family snap shots but when I would try to crop or blow anything up it looked terrible. Oh and anti shake is going to be important to me when I can afford it, these new affordable nikor VR lenses look like they may fit my budget one day. I could really use some advice here.

[DonSchap]

Since you're hopping all over the place between a quality mid-range and a cheap intro-camera, it would be hard for anyone to keep up ... so it's no wonder you are corn-fused.

(Man, this should set off a fire-storm ... the philosophical approach usually does ...)

If you are serious about staying in photography, then -pop- for the mid-range DSLR and quit knocking around about a "good" intro-camera. In 6-months, you're going be wondering why you did it, because "Intro-DSLRs" are severely limited in certain aspects by design ... otherwise the serious users wouldn't both buying the higher-priced rigs. They'd stake their careers on the "intro" ... cause it can "do it all." Frankly speaking, it cannot.

You sound like you are planning on seriously moving forward with your photography, buying quality glass and other improvements ... so side-step the "intro-DSLR" and grab a decent mid-range camera. Yes, it costs a little more, but you won't be bemoaning the fact you're stuck with the toy. You'll be at the top of your game, right from the start, using it adroitly to get the shot, instead of crabbin' about the lousy ISO-1600 shot you're getting in low light ... you'll be braggin' about the nice ISO-1600 shot you are getting from your Nikon D200 or Nikon D300 selection.

Leave the intro to those folks who take a few shots and leave the camera in the closet, most of time. If you are hittin' the streets with enthusiasm and are using your camera nearly daily ... get one that can do all the tricks, too ... not just one you can only swap lenses on and pray you get it right.

Remember: Some shots only come once in a lifetime ... why not take your best shot? ISO-6400 may not always be the best choice, but sometimes ... it's your ONLY choice. Shoot it! Cry later.

:cool:

[coldrain]

There has been no announcement for a D40x follow up, yet.

The XTi/400D will get a follow-up in february.

[Rooz]

I thought I had finally decided to buy my first DSLR. I have been very unhappy with point and shoots and have been looking into DSLRs for a few years now. Being a student it has been hard trying to afford one (if someone know about some student discounts please let me know). I was hoping that tomorrow I would be buying my first and had almost 100% decided on the d40x. I had been looking between the d40x, the a100 and the rebel xti. The only reason I was looking into the a100 was the image stabilization and the fact that I have a Minolta maxxium 5 with a pretty good lens currently. Once I researched it more the a 100 is definitely not what I want, the a700 is but it is way to much money. This has left me with the d40x and the xti to chose from and I was leaning towards the d40x. This is because the kit lens was very nice (I eventually would buy a Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR lens for it when I could afford it) and from reading many opinions it needed less tinkering to get great shots out of the box then the Cannon. My only problem with the d40x is the fact that it can't use older lenses with the auto focus, I guess thats not a big deal but I know I have seen some cheap old nice lenses at garage sales and such and it's a shame I won't be able to use them (think someone will make an add on ring/adapter to make older lenses auto focus usable?).

My problem is that it has been announced that there is a d40x replacement, the d60 coming in spring. I know that if I keep waiting for the next best thing I will end up waiting forever and never taking any pictures. Is it something worth waiting to hear the announcement on or should this steer me to the xti?

I don't have one format I work in but I do like to make some of my prints big, (poster size) and have it look sharp from a 2-3 feet away. I plan on working in both light and dark conditions and both inside and out. What bugged me most about my point and shoot 6mp camera is just how fuzzy the pictures came out no matter how well they were taken, great for family snap shots but when I would try to crop or blow anything up it looked terrible. Oh and anti shake is going to be important to me when I can afford it, these new affordable nikor VR lenses look like they may fit my budget one day. I could really use some advice here.

there is no solid info on a d40x replacement, i suspect maybe mid-late 2008 there may be more info.

good news for consumer grade IS/ VR lens' is that sony's built in IS have made canon and nikon release consumer grade IS lens' cheap. canon introudced the 18-55IS kit lens, nikon followed suit. nikon introduced the 55-200VR lens, canon followed suit. these are very good quality consumer grade lens for very cheap prices. then there is the nikon 70-300VR and the canon 70-300IS. so there are ample image stabilised choices.

don;t discount the oly e510 twin lens kit which is in-body stablisied and is a really nice kit.

you an wait forever for replacments. there will be alot going on in 2008 as there has been in 2007. you could wait for the xti replacement and then regret not waiting for the d80 or d40 replacement. pentax will also probably be updating late next year. so you could put your decision off forever.

[nubz69]

Don your advice is great but I am not sure I can take it as much as I wish I could. I just wont be able to spend the money on a better body for at least another 6mo. to a year and the 6mp point and shoot I have I think is on it's last legs. I need to find the best compromise possible w/o sacrificing anything that may be vital down the road. From playing with the cameras I do really think a midrange would be perfect and I really liked a cannon 40d w/ image stabilization I played with at best buy. It let me shoot down to a 1/8 and look halfway decent on the LCD and had a light meter as well as (i think) iso and shutter in the view finder. It was just to expensive for me though.

If I were to try to go above the d40x,xti level I might be able to afford the D80 Nikon. This would mean I wouldn't have to worry about lens compatibility like I would with the d40x but other then that what do I gain? They are very similar to each other with respect to image quality, MP, and noise aren't they?

[coldrain]

What you gain with an XTi or D80 over a D40x is a better AF system with both, better interface, especially regarding settings of WB and ISO, mirror lock up in the case of the XTi, a short delay mirror lock up function in the D80, depth of field check function, with the XTi a good RAW convertor with the camera and remote control over the camera via USB on the computer, and both will accept and AF with any Canon EOS or Nikon F mount lenses respectively.

All in all, both are quite a bit more complete than the D40(x).

The D40 and XTi are of equal size and weight, the D80 is a bit bigger.
The EOS 30D and 40D are a bit bigger again.

[nubz69]

so what does the d80 have over the xti then?

[erichlund]

Just remember, like the Waltz, the Minuet is danced in 3/4 time.

Perhaps that's not what you had in mind... ;)

Perhaps you should consider actually trying them out in a camera store. Once I actually handled the cameras, my choice was easy.

As far as capabilities, they are similar. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Do a search on this site and others and you can read about it to your hearts content. In then end, the only thing that really matters is which one you decide will work best for you. That depends on a lot of things that I nor anyone else here can really help you with.

If you do decide on the Nikon, the current 18-55 is a very nice little lens. I haven't really seen any reviews on the new VR version. It should be just as good plus have image stabilization, but until we see a review, we don't really know.

As far as your P&S, the photos are fuzzy because the pixels are so small. You really don't have the capability to go large printing from such a camera. It can be done, and certain scene types work better than others, but if you need fine detail, then you need a camera capable of capturing fine detail and retaining it to a large print size. Since a reasonably priced DSLR is all that will likely fit your budget, you might want to consider a 10mp camera and a very high quality lens (skip the cheap kit lens and get a high quality prime in the range you work in). The high quality lens will resolve more detail, and the 10mp camera will give you more pixels to go large. There are several brands that meet this requirement. The D40x (will be manual focus only) and the D80 by Nikon. The 40D by Canon, though, that starts to eat a good bit of your lens budget. Same with the Sony A700. I don't know if any of the Pentax are 10mp, but they also make a good camera. The XTi probably will work as well, and the 8mp size, while less, is not as significantly so as the 6mp cameras.

Now, if you don't need to go so large, then the 6mp cameras should be fine.

[Rooz]

so what does the d80 have over the xti then?

do some reading.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/

or watch a couple of videos.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/NikonD80/page7.shtml
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon400D/page7.shtml

[nubz69]

well from reading and listening to all this it seems like the d80 is the body to have for many reasons but that the xti takes slightly sharper pics. Is it safe to believe that the D80 with a better lens then stock would be just as sharp? Will I even notice the difference even when working with large prints?

I am glad everyone has been so helpful. There is so much info and much of it is conflicting or makes every camera sound like it is almost the same.

[WestCoast]

If you are serious about staying in photography, then -pop- for the mid-range DSLR and quit knocking around about a "good" intro-camera. In 6-months, you're going be wondering why you did it, because "Intro-DSLRs" are severely limited in certain aspects by design ... otherwise the serious users wouldn't both buying the higher-priced rigs. They'd stake their careers on the "intro" ... cause it can "do it all." Frankly speaking, it cannot.

You sound like you are planning on seriously moving forward with your photography, buying quality glass and other improvements ... so side-step the "intro-DSLR" and grab a decent mid-range camera. Yes, it costs a little more, but you won't be bemoaning the fact you're stuck with the toy.

This advice is somewhere between condescending and retarded. Consumer-grade D-SLRs are not "toys" and you won't "bemoan" the purchase of one over a prosumer-grade body like the Nikon D80 or Canon 40D. The prosumer bodies have more features and better overall performance, but it's not like the consumer models are that far behind. If you're just getting started, the added features and performance may or may not be worth the extra $300-$800. It's up to you to decide how important those extras are for your needs. Don't let some gearhead hack make that decision for you.

[DonSchap]

Yes ... of course there are those who simply will not pony up the capital in an effort to improve their equipment ... and that's perfectly fine. Today's intro-DSLR cameras are a far cry better than most anything that was developed only a decade ago ... but time marches on ... and if your are going to dance to the tunes, you still are going to have to pay the band.

Whatever you decide, get the RIGHT tool for your plan ... FIRST! Do not muck around and waste time with "trial by multifire" equipment. If your decision is made .. and you're ready to begin ... get the serious equipment ... and cut your teeth on that. You can avoid the resale aspect of lesser gear and ... just ease on down, ease on down the road (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seCJz2FDec0).

31918
Picture-perfect Michael Jackson (1978)

[WestCoast]

Whatever you decide, get the RIGHT tool for your plan ... FIRST! Do not muck around and waste time with "trial by multifire" equipment. If your decision is made .. and you're ready to begin ... get the serious equipment

For many people "the right tool for their plan" would be spending less money on something like a D40... because many of them don't NEED the added features/performance of a prosumer body. And many of them don't WANT to spend $2,000+ on a camera.

For somebody who spends so much time talking up expensive gear, I would've thought that your photos would look a lot better than what you've posted here. They're not any better than what I've shot with my "toy" D40x. Apparently the best technology that money can buy doesn't change the bottom line that much.

[DonSchap]

There's only so much you can do with a 72dpi 234KB image, WestCoast.

You wanna go print some of these ... I can pony up. :cool:

[WestCoast]

There's only so much you can do with a 72dpi 234KB image, WestCoast.

No, even looking at your images over the web, it's obvious that they're pretty average. For somebody who spends thousands of dollars on gear, you're not doing anything impressive with it.

[SpecialK]

There are more options than Canikon. The Pentax K10D is very reasonably priced now with rebate for about $530. The body has many features, and though there are some shortages of longer Pentax lenses, there are many third party candidates.

[Rooz]

well from reading and listening to all this it seems like the d80 is the body to have for many reasons but that the xti takes slightly sharper pics. Is it safe to believe that the D80 with a better lens then stock would be just as sharp? Will I even notice the difference even when working with large prints?

I am glad everyone has been so helpful. There is so much info and much of it is conflicting or makes every camera sound like it is almost the same.

the xti applies a bit more sharpneing in its default settings, the d40x/ d40 even more sharpneing and the d80 takes softer pics by default so you just turn the in cam sharpening up if you want it to come out of the camera sharper. of shoot them all in RAW so there is no in-cam processing at all and do it all on PC.

the reason to buy a d80 over an xti or d40x is not about the image quality. the IQ out of these cameras are pretty much of a muchness, they all take great pics. the reasons are build quality and features like the top LCD panel, 2 command wheels and things like that.

also think about the e510 olympus, k10d pentax. they are also very competant dslr's.

[DonSchap]

No, even looking at your images over the web, it's obvious that they're pretty average. For somebody who spends thousands of dollars on gear, you're not doing anything impressive with it.

You know, Big Shot, I'm going to forward you an invitation I got, just today ... maybe you can impress the Free World with the "knock out" stuff you are producing. You give me way too much credit for artistry and design ... I am simply and humbly enjoying the art of photography ... I didn't say I was setting the world on fire with it. I'll leave that to you, pal! You're the youngster ... I am a fossilized old fart from a time when photography was a lot harder and a crap load more expensive and work-intensive than a silicon copy.

31921

Call For Entries!
Deadline March 1, 2008


The ART OF PHOTOGRAPHY SHOW 2008 is an international exhibition of photographic art which will take place April 25 - May 23, 2008 at the elegant Lyceum Theatre Gallery, located in the historic Gaslamp Quarter of downtown San Diego, California. The opening reception gala will be on Friday, April 25th, and will be a world class event!

WEBSITE: www.artofphotographyshow.com

CALL FOR ENTRIES:
The Prospectus and entry details are available here. The online entry process is very easy, simply filling out a short registration form and then uploading your images as JPEG files. Images created via any form of photography will be accepted for consideration (i.e. shot on film, shot digitally, unaltered shots, alternative process, mixed media, digital manipulations, montages, etc.), so long as part of the image is photographically created.

JURIED COMPETITION:
Carol McCusker is the Judge for the Art of Photography Show 2008. Dr. McCusker is Curator of Photography at the Museum of Photographic Arts in San Diego. She has curated over 40 exhibitions at MoPA and has written numerous books, catalogs, essays and articles on various aspects of photography. Carol McCusker is highly respected in the global photographic community, so it's a significant honor to be selected by her.

AWARDS:
$1,000 1st Place Award
$ 800 2nd Place Award
$ 600 3rd Place Award
$ 400 4th Place Award
$ 200 (11) Honorable Mention Awards

ENTRY FEE:
$25 for the first entry, $10 for each additional entry. There is no limit to the number of entries an artist may enter. The entire registration, upload, and payment process can be done securely right on the website. We must receive your JPEG files and your entry fee payment by March 1st.

DISCOUNT:
Artists who entered any work in any previous Art of Photography Show or Art of Digital Show will receive a $15 discount towards The Art of Photography Show 2008.

SHOW CATALOG:
We are producing a superb Show Catalog, which will feature every image which is in the Show and an artist statement about the work. Artists who are in the Show can obtain as many copies of the Show Catalog as they like for free, which can be used for promotion and marketing of their work.

MARKETING & PUBLICITY:
The Art of Photography Show 2008 will be pursuing an intensive marketing and publicity campaign to bring maximum media attention to the artists who are juried into the exhibition. More than 20,000 people are expected to view the Show during the four-week run at the Lyceum Theatre gallery, which is open (free) seven days a week. So, the artists and their work will receive a tremendous amount of exposure by the media and the public.

SALES:
One of our key aims is to sell the work that is exhibited at The Art of Photography Show 2008. Our great love of this art form (and being photographic artists ourselves) prompts us to 'pull out all of the stops' in order to showcase a truly excellent presentation of photographic art, to elevate and promote this art form, and to provide substantial benefits to the exhibiting artists.

QuickTime video clip of The Art of Photography Show 2007: www.artofphotographyshow.com/trailer.html (www.artofphotographyshow.com/trailer.html)

Testimonials from artists and attendees of our recent shows can be viewed here (http://www.artofphotographyshow.com/testimonials.html).

For more information please contact the Curator, Steven Churchill:
Email: steven@artofphotographyshow.com
Phone: 858-793-0900


31922

"Here's lookin' at you, kid! - SMILE!" ;)

[WestCoast]

You know, Big Shot, I'm going to forward you an invitation I got, just today ... maybe you can impress the Free World with the "knock out" stuff you are producing.

I never claimed that I'm producing "knock out" quality photographs. Heck, I've never claimed to be even a halfway talented photographer. But nice straw man argument nonetheless.

My point is that the photos you've posted here with your expensive equipment aren't any more impressive than what amateurs with entry-level "toys" are producing. I find it humorous that you constantly tell people here to spend as much money as possible and to not waste time with entry-level equipment, when the quality of your own photographs can be easily duplicated with a D40 and a couple of consumer-grade lenses.

If you're going to rip consumer-grade equipment like an elitist snot, you'd better show that you can do better with the equipment that you're pushing. All you've managed to show is that all the disposable income in the world is no substitute for actual talent.