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View Full Version : Anything better than the Nikon D70



sherlock
12-31-2004, 11:26 PM
Hi,

I am an amateur landscape photographer looking for his first dSLR. I think I've narrowed it down to the Nikon D70 but I thought I would let Cannon dSLR owners tell me why another camera (such as the EOS 300D or 20D) is better than the D70. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Andrew S.

TenD
01-01-2005, 07:29 AM
You should buy the D70.
I am a Canon user and have been using Canon cameras since 1981. I got caught up in the huge Canon AE1 marketing campaign in the early 80s and that's what I bought. I am familiar with their product, and the way their product "thinks". When Canon introduced the EF system, because I was familiar with Canon, I continued with Canon. When digital became popular I had several Canon EF lenses in my collection so it made sense to buy another Canon body. So now I am a Canon guy.
If you are starting from scratch, any of the major digital camera systems will probably suit you fine. Nikon and Canon are the big players on the block, with Pentax, Sigma, Minolta, Fuji, etc. playing smaller but significant roles in the digital revolution.
I have done very little research outside of Canon, I am very happy with my system and see no reason to look elsewhere. Canon's lens selection is awesome, and their bodies are adequate tools with low noise, quick auto focus, and excellent image quality. Nikon offers virtually the same thing.

kave
01-01-2005, 09:21 AM
Dcresource:
"Trying to find fault with the EOS-20D is a difficult task. In fact, my two or three complaints are mentioned in the previous paragraphs. It's just that good. Now, for some buying advice. If you're stuck between the D70 and 20D, I'd choose the 20D without hesitation. If you've got a Digital Rebel and want higher resolution, more controls, and faster performance, I'd say go for it. If you have a 10D then I wouldn't be as quick to recommend an upgrade -- see if the 20D's improvements are what you need before you buy."

I'd say, if you have the money, go for the 20D, you never know when you are going to need the extra pixels. Compare the Applications that ship with Canon's, much better, for example the Photo stitch app rocks.

eagle17
01-01-2005, 01:56 PM
well if you are starting from scratch then you have to make a choice.

The canon 20D is $1300 delivered without lens (I would recomed you spend the money and get the sigma 18-125 dc lens with either the canon or nikon)

the Nikon D70 is $860 delivered with out lens (again get the sigma 18-125)

I think that for the $440 difference I would get the nikon. Only if you do not own any other canon slrs! I bought the 20D because I have friends with canons and I have a film slr that I can share some of my lenses with.

the nikon has better color in my opinion right out of the box but the canon is sharper especially if you intend to do a lot of cropping.

I hope I did not confuse you any more than you are... but if you do get the nikon be sure to just by the body only and then get the sigma lens you will be very happy, If you plan on shooting wildlife I would save up for the nikon 80-400VR lens...

good luck and either way you will be VERY happy with your purchase!

John

Rhys
01-01-2005, 02:34 PM
The Canon 20D is a newer camera than the Nikon D70. I'd say look at the age of the camera in relation to its price as cameras drop in price as time goes by.

I'd say Canon. I'm a long-term 35mm Nikon user. Although Nikon claims that all its lenses are intercompatible, this is a load of codswallop. The bayonet mounts are not all intercompatible and the D70 won't allow metering to take place with a great many of their lenses. Bascially, you never know whether your lens will work with your D70 until you try it.

My personal preference is for Canon on the basis that when they went AF, 15 years ago, they built an AF system that could be upgraded without dumping their new AF lens stock. Also, I gather that Canon lenses are optically the same quality as Nikon but are a lot cheaper.

I stayed with Nikon for a lot of my digital compacts, after trying and being unhappy with Olympus. I went for Canon with my latest (the S1 IS) and should I wish to get a dSLR then I shall purchase a Canon on the grounds that since Nikon refuse to support my existing Nikon lenses then I'll have to buy new so I might just as well get cheaper lenses and a more thoroughly thought-out system with none of the compatibility issues that plague Nikon.

ReF
01-03-2005, 06:40 PM
although nikon and canon glass are both excellent, canon seems to have a larger selection of SLR lenses. please note that I am not talking about 3rd party lenses, just the ones made by the manufacturers for their own cameras.

ktixx
01-07-2005, 11:57 PM
I chose to buy a Canon 20D over a Nikon for the following reasons

1: 8mp (although most people will tell you the difference between 6 & 8 is Minor, I figure the more MP the longer the camera will be current.
2: 5fps for 25 shots (Nikon only has 3fps)
3: Custom Kelvin White Balance (will aid in your landscape photographs because you will be able to set the accurate WB temp without using presets.)
4: Canon Lenses (There are many, relatively cheap, very good IS lenses from canon)
5: ISO speeds of up to 3200 with relatively low noise (Nikon is 1600)
6: 9 Point auto focus with custom point selection (huge advantage to canon)

I have had the opportunity to use the Nikon D70 for about 3 hours. I have had the opportunity to read the entire Canon 20d Manual 2 times and use the camera for about 30 hours. My facts above were just information I found from my research. I love the operation of my 20D and I think it was worth the extra $400 dollars. Overall I would suggest the 20D to you; however most people will tell you the difference between Canon and Nikon is negligible. I would have to say the difference mainly comes in lower light situations, with the higher ISO speed, 9 point AF and IS lenses the Canon beats Nikon. Also, when you are doing landscape photographs you will be able to custom set the Kelvin temp depending on the time of day. It is up to you to decide if the extra $400 is worth it to you. Overall, as said before, no matter what your decision I am sure you will be happy with your choice.
Hope this helps,
Ken

D70FAN
01-08-2005, 09:08 AM
I chose to buy a Canon 20D over a Nikon for the following reasons

1: 8mp (although most people will tell you the difference between 6 & 8 is Minor, I figure the more MP the longer the camera will be current.
2: 5fps for 25 shots (Nikon only has 3fps)
3: Custom Kelvin White Balance (will aid in your landscape photographs because you will be able to set the accurate WB temp without using presets.)
4: Canon Lenses (There are many, relatively cheap, very good IS lenses from canon)
5: ISO speeds of up to 3200 with relatively low noise (Nikon is 1600)
6: 9 Point auto focus with custom point selection (huge advantage to canon)

I have had the opportunity to use the Nikon D70 for about 3 hours. I have had the opportunity to read the entire Canon 20d Manual 2 times and use the camera for about 30 hours. My facts above were just information I found from my research. I love the operation of my 20D and I think it was worth the extra $400 dollars. Overall I would suggest the 20D to you; however most people will tell you the difference between Canon and Nikon is negligible. I would have to say the difference mainly comes in lower light situations, with the higher ISO speed, 9 point AF and IS lenses the Canon beats Nikon. Also, when you are doing landscape photographs you will be able to custom set the Kelvin temp depending on the time of day. It is up to you to decide if the extra $400 is worth it to you. Overall, as said before, no matter what your decision I am sure you will be happy with your choice.
Hope this helps,
Ken

Ken brings up some good points, but as a D70 owner, who is a big Canon fan, I would be hard pressed to find many flaws with either camera.

Ken, (this is not meant to be critical) you need to brush up on the white balance thing as Nikon has custom setting as well, but in "mired" increments vs. Kelvin. I have used this feature once, in 8 months, just to make sure it worked.

Any of you 20D owners use this feature?

It's easier to do in Photoshop.

I used the 20D for almost a week, and while I'm not real crazy about the cameras ergonomics campared to Nikon, if I were starting from scratch, I would have to give Canon the nod on this one. You really can't go wrong.

Just don't get the 18-55 "kit" lens as it is truely a cheapo. Many here are using the Sigma 18-125 DC and it is definately better than the "kit" lenses from both Canon and Nikon ($270-$300 depending on where you buy it).

Canon makes some very nice image stabilized (IS) lenses, and unlike Nikon have priced them within range of us mortals. The Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM, for $400, is a good example.

I've said before that I wish there were an Canon lens adapter kit for Nikon.

Whichever camera you decide on, remember that these are not point-and-shoots so a learning curve is involved.

D70FAN
01-08-2005, 10:34 AM
The Canon 20D is a newer camera than the Nikon D70. I'd say look at the age of the camera in relation to its price as cameras drop in price as time goes by.

I'd say Canon. I'm a long-term 35mm Nikon user. Although Nikon claims that all its lenses are intercompatible, this is a load of codswallop. The bayonet mounts are not all intercompatible and the D70 won't allow metering to take place with a great many of their lenses. Bascially, you never know whether your lens will work with your D70 until you try it.

My personal preference is for Canon on the basis that when they went AF, 15 years ago, they built an AF system that could be upgraded without dumping their new AF lens stock. Also, I gather that Canon lenses are optically the same quality as Nikon but are a lot cheaper.

I stayed with Nikon for a lot of my digital compacts, after trying and being unhappy with Olympus. I went for Canon with my latest (the S1 IS) and should I wish to get a dSLR then I shall purchase a Canon on the grounds that since Nikon refuse to support my existing Nikon lenses then I'll have to buy new so I might just as well get cheaper lenses and a more thoroughly thought-out system with none of the compatibility issues that plague Nikon.

Rhys,

You might want to qualify your lens support issue by adding that your old IX lenses are full manual (not AF). All of the Nikkor AF lenses work on Nikon dSLR's.

Let's hear from all of you Canon dSLR owners. Do you use non EF lenses from your old collection in that nice new DReb, 20D, or 1Ds?

This equates to getting upset over buying a CD player and expecting it to play vinyl records! The reason to buy a Canon 20D or a D70 is that they are good cameras. Not because your 25+ year old lenses don't work.

As for lens quality? Unless you are buying extremely rugged pro grade lenses, I doubt you will know the difference in everyday shooting. In the pro lines it seems to be a wash. Both are pretty darned expensive.

For Image Stabilized lenses, Canon has some nice IS lenses for their DReb and 20D owners that don't cost an arm and a leg. I wish Nikon would do the same with VR in their G line.

timmciglobal
01-09-2005, 01:48 PM
I've looked at alot of D70 vs 20d shots and I was amazed how poor the noise performance is on the D70. ISO 400 on the D70 to me is unaceptable and any croping will really show the noise (image wise its more "pleasing" noise then 20d because it appears to be "grain" in film terms more then "noise" as canons show but the fact that there is high "grain" in a digital ISO 200 image bothers me, and would bother anyone I sent a photo to.

20d is the camera to own right now.

Tim

D70FAN
01-09-2005, 03:53 PM
I've looked at alot of D70 vs 20d shots and I was amazed how poor the noise performance is on the D70. ISO 400 on the D70 to me is unaceptable and any croping will really show the noise (image wise its more "pleasing" noise then 20d because it appears to be "grain" in film terms more then "noise" as canons show but the fact that there is high "grain" in a digital ISO 200 image bothers me, and would bother anyone I sent a photo to.

20d is the camera to own right now.

Tim

I'm not sure which pictures in particular are you talking about that bother you? And I find your quote on noise pretty interesting as follows:

"image wise its more "pleasing" noise then 20d because it appears to be "grain" in film terms more then "noise". "

Hmmm. I find that sounds oddly familiar:

"To my eye though, the D70 wins the noise derby handily, as its noise pattern is finer-grained, and therefore less evident/objectionable than that of the Rebel. Even at ISO 1600, the D70's noise is unobtrusive and quite acceptable."

Source: Imaging resource review of the D70.

Anyway, enjoy your new 20D. Hell of a nice camera. How about posting some of your pictures? You can compare them noise-wise to mine up on smugmug.com. The lightning shot is pretty noisy as I was shooting continuous at ISO1600. It's a real time shot. They are all a little noisy I guess but I like em'. :)

http://d70fan.smugmug.com/gallery/197044

timmciglobal
01-09-2005, 07:46 PM
That 1600 shot is AFTER noise ninja?

And no I didn't copy the review, I was going to buy a D70 but someone sent me 2 samples @ ISO 200 and I thought "wow that seems wrong" then got another 2 samples from online person of the D70 shots @ 400 and realized the natural state of D70 images is very large "pixel" view in full view, vs 20d which seems more smooth (though as people have said then less "Sharp")

Tim

D70FAN
01-09-2005, 08:56 PM
That 1600 shot is AFTER noise ninja?

And no I didn't copy the review, I was going to buy a D70 but someone sent me 2 samples @ ISO 200 and I thought "wow that seems wrong" then got another 2 samples from online person of the D70 shots @ 400 and realized the natural state of D70 images is very large "pixel" view in full view, vs 20d which seems more smooth (though as people have said then less "Sharp")

Tim

The 1600 is after noise ninja, but the original wasn't bad just a little "grainy". I probably should repost the original, but I'm lazy. ;) The rest are untouched.

The idea was not to imply that you copied the review, but that opinions are just that. Including mine.

It's just not a good idea to state fact from 2 or even 4 samples from someone who may, in fact, be not completely competent with a given piece of photgraphy equipment and, or, have an agenda.

fer' instance. If I had listened to all of the negatives to the Canon DREb, I would have never used one. But what I found was a very reasonably priced dSLR with a crappy kit lens. Change the lens and you've got a competent dSLR. The 20D as well as every dSLR I have tried (all but the 1dS Mk II) are primo picture taking machines compared to the other snappers out there, but even the $88 point-n-shoots can take a decent picture.

Anyway that was my point. Don't critique a camera that you have not tried. Reviews are good but they don't catch everthing. A lesson it took me some time to learn.

Hope you get a 20D someday, and enjoy it as much as I do the D70.

Bon Foto

jeisner
01-10-2005, 01:19 AM
If your not starting with any lenses you may also consider the Pentax *ist DS, I just switched to dslr recently and went with the Pentex for a few reasons including it was more featured than the 300d (in features that I wanted anyway), much smaller than either the 300d or the D70 making it more comfortable for me, and much cheaper than the D70 or 20D and even the 300d (here in Australia)....

Personally I suggest trying them all out at a camera store, there isn't a huge difference in performance between the D70, 300d and istDS, they all have their own strengths, I think it is just more a matter of personal taste.

And I second the Sigma 18-125 lens, I find it to be a very capable lens for the price, I also purchased a Sigma 50mm f2.8 DG EX Macro for when I need a brighter lens and also for 1:1 macro fun :)

Some examples of ISO 1600 shots with the *ist DS and 50mm lens linked below...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=11760100

Dave Clark
01-10-2005, 06:49 AM
Anything Better? Let's see, Nikon has the D100, D2h and D1x and Canon has the EOS-1D models, but look at the Konica Minolta Maximum 7D. This camera has the IS build into the camera! I just shelled out an extre $600 for my second IS lens for my 10D. That was $600 for just the IS feature, not the lens. Seems to make a lot more sense to have to buy IS only once in stead of every lens.

Those Nikon and Canon cameras are at least more expensive, so I assume they are better.

And don't forget the little extras you gotta have: teleconverter $300, batteries $50, flash $350, cable release $50 and the list goes on! Of course this is for the Canon but I am sure Nikon has a similiar list.

D70FAN
01-10-2005, 12:56 PM
If your not starting with any lenses you may also consider the Pentax *ist DS, I just switched to dslr recently and went with the Pentex for a few reasons including it was more featured than the 300d (in features that I wanted anyway), much smaller than either the 300d or the D70 making it more comfortable for me, and much cheaper than the D70 or 20D and even the 300d (here in Australia)....

Personally I suggest trying them all out at a camera store, there isn't a huge difference in performance between the D70, 300d and istDS, they all have their own strengths, I think it is just more a matter of personal taste.

And I second the Sigma 18-125 lens, I find it to be a very capable lens for the price, I also purchased a Sigma 50mm f2.8 DG EX Macro for when I need a brighter lens and also for 1:1 macro fun :)

Some examples of ISO 1600 shots with the *ist DS and 50mm lens linked below...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=11760100

The *ist DS is quite an improvement over the *ist D. Should be fun for years to come.

What is the minimum focus distance of the Sigma 50mm f2.8?

jeisner
01-10-2005, 02:28 PM
I haven't measured the minimum focus distance, it is listed on the Sigma site as 18.9cm, that sounds about right.

D70FAN
01-10-2005, 03:35 PM
I haven't measured the minimum focus distance, it is listed on the Sigma site as 18.9cm, that sounds about right.

Thanks. Yup 7.5 inches that's not bad for a relatively low cost lens and about the norm for macro/micro lenses.

Rhys
01-10-2005, 08:26 PM
Rhys,

You might want to qualify your lens support issue by adding that your old IX lenses are full manual (not AF). All of the Nikkor AF lenses work on Nikon dSLR's.

I feel justified in raising the lens support issue because Nikon marketing makes it sound as though every Nikon lens will work wheras in fact most of them will fit on the camera but that's all. No metering is available.

I gather also that NOT all Nikkor AF lenses will work with the D70. Those marked as digital will but the others depend very much on the lens. It truly is a complete hash.

Pentax managed their lens system better with full intercompatibility between all of their K mount lenses and their *ist.

I would like to point out though that the Nikon D1 WILL take Nikon AI, AIS and possibly Q lenses and will work with them - or so I was informed by Nikon.

gholston
01-26-2005, 05:37 PM
I may have missed it, but the Leica Digilux 2 wasn't mentioned.
In my opinion it is the best camera of this class hands down.