Newbie. New 430EX flash seems lame...

[SynterX]

Been using my XTi for a few months now, pretty much on auto everything mode while I figure all this stuff out. The wife was into photography a bit years back, and I found her old Flash from her Pentax system. It's old, I'm guessing 20 years? It says on it "dedicated canon" or something. So, I threw it on, and to my surprise, it worked. Suddenly my in house pictures got much brighter and nicer looking. Quick tests of the same shot with and without the big flash made me want to get a "real" external flash.

So, I picked up a 430EX today. I threw it on, and I am so far disappointed big time by what it's doing. Left on Auto mode, or Program mode, the flash goes off, but I am getting more flash with the built-in than the 430EX! I see it go, but yikes, it's pretty lame.

So, I go through the manual again, and find that I can raise or lower the flash amount a bit, but that isn't cutting it.

So, am I missing some obvious, silly beginner setup or something? I thought the whole point of the 430EX was that it was designed specifically for the Rebel XTi and the like. I was digging bouncing the flash off the ceiling with the old one, but the new one, I can aim it right at a subject 6 feet away and get crap.

The problem with the old flash is it's all manual settings, and quite big and ugly (to be honest).

Any suggestions?

Keep in mind, I'm very, very new to all this - and will move beyond Auto mode sooner or later.

[Honest Gaza]

As a test shot, set your Camera to Manual with the following settings :


ISO 400
Shutter Speed 1/160
Aperture f/4


Bounce the flash off your ceiling and take a shot of your subject.


Sample with these settings (outdoors under a pergola with basic lighting ) :

30939

[fractalgfx]

Sticking a flash that old on a digital SLR is a very bad idea. Old flashes can have trigger voltages high enough to fry the circuits in your camera.

[24Peter]

You may be having issues with the e-TTL metering. Put the 430 EX in manual mode and have a party.

Photos comparing the two flashes would help us diagnose the issue.

[DonSchap]

I found that in AUTO mode, you can improve the sensors response with the E-TTL mode by adding some flash compensation ... which will now work with your 430EX. Look it up in either your flash or camera manual. It is critical to proper operation of the E-TTL mode.

Bearing in mind that you are new to this ... I will try to make it simple. You will have to look up terms (E-TTL, E-TTL2, Constant Source, Flash Compensation, Exposure compensation) ... just for your own understanding. Once these terms are understood or reasoned through, the following will make a lot more sense to you. (That's important, because I can't think of another way to 'splain it.)


That old flash is firing at full power (whatever that is) ... is about as bright as it gets. It's not a variable source, like the 430EX is. The camera is not electronically controlling the quanity of flash that old flash produces, it's merely triggering it ... so you do have positive control of how it looks by adjusting your normal settings, because the flash is now a KNOWN SORCE of light and consistently producing the same amount of light, each time. It does not vary.

The E-TTL circuitry built into the 430EX takes over the flash and coordinates the shot NO MATTER WHAT THE MANUAL SETTINGS ARE ... and as long as the flash is in the E-TTL mode, it will try to compensate and provide what it "thinks" it needs to give you what you want.

Honestly, you can adjust the ISO, the aperture and even the shutter-speed and your effect by doing so, until you get to the ragged-edge (where is can no longer compensate), is going to be about ... nada. The flash keeps fighting your adjusting for every adjustment, as it is trying to provide the same exact "calculated" image the camera and flash "THINK" you want.

It can be a little maddening, think the flash is for ... junk. It's not ... but you have to practice a little with it and this E-TTL2 circuitry to "tune" it. You need to alter the electronic control just a little to make certain the image you and the camera are seeing are in agreement. Remember, this flash works on all Canon EOS cameras ... and as much as everyone would like to think they are all alike ... the reality of it is that they are all a little different from one another. Once you get this "variable" between what you want and what you actually have eliminated by this minor flash compensation (E-TTL2) adjustment... the flash should then follow your camera each time you slap it on.

Give that a try and then, if that doesn't work ... panic! :eek: LOL

I hope this explanation helps.

[D Thompson]

The E-TTL circuitry built into the 430EX takes over the flash and coordinates the shot NO MATTER WHAT THE MANUAL SETTINGS ARE ...

Careful Don or someone will be using your quote to substantiate variable aperture settings. :eek::eek:

[DonSchap]

I figure if we can just simplify what they have tried to make "simple" ... Geesh ... you have to have serious brains for it to be a no-brainer. Nothing is simple about E-TTL flash shots. Until you get it "tuned" with flash compensation, the flash can look like it has a mind of its own.

Heck, I gave up ... too much work with multiple flash units ... and went back to the old ways (before the Empire) and bought constant-source strobes. They ain't cheap ... but, then again, I'm not playing with sub-adjustments either. ;)

If you only have one flash, I have found, E-TTL can be successfully managed and adjusted ... but if you use multiples ... let the fun begin! :(

[SynterX]

Thank you all for at least confirming one thing - the Flash likely is not defective, and it is a simple fact that I'm in over my head! That makes sense that the old flash is going 100%, and the 430 is not. The thing I still don't get, or like for that matter, is I can shoot the same shot, say, a flower pot 8 feet away, with the 430EX, and without using built in flash, and the built-in is a tad brighter. I would think all things being equal, the 430EX shot should be better, not the other way around.

I will not return the flash, but start seeing if I can get it to do what I want. Like, go at near 100% capacity when I want to bounce off of a ceiling, versus more head on.

Thanks, and I will try some of those manual shots to see what's up. There are a few settings on the flash itself that I don't quite "get" after reading the manual a few times.

Any more comments from you guys who know what you're doing are always appreciated...trust me.

[DonSchap]

Okay ... just to make a point (I will assume you already have mounted the lens):



Part I
Put the 430EX on the hot shoe
Turn on the 430EX
Turn on the EOS camera
Turn the Mode Dial on the camera to "M"
Set the aperture to f/5.6
Set the shutter speed to 1/60 sec.
Set ISO to 400
With the flash Mode selector, select "M" mode
Make sure the setting says "1/1" (this is full blast)
Site in and focus on your subject ... and hit the shutter release
Shut off 430EX and remove from hot shoe

Part II

Replace with "older" flash and turn flash on
Site in and focus on your subject ... and hit the shutter release


What are the results? Please post these two images.

Thank you :D

[DonSchap]

Okay ... just to make a point (I will assume you already have mounted the lens):

Part I
Put the 430EX on the hot shoe
Turn on the 430EX
Turn on the EOS camera
Turn the Mode Dial on the camera to "M"
Set the aperture to f/5.6
Set the shutter speed to 1/60 sec.
Set ISO to 400
On the 430EX: with the Flash "Mode" selector, select "M" mode (it should say "M" on flash's LCD panel, not "E-TTL". Play with it until you can get it to do this. Read the manual for assistance or have someone else read the manual to you :p)
Make sure the setting says "1/1" (this is full blast)
Site in and focus on your subject ... and hit the shutter release
Shut off 430EX and remove from hot shoe


Part II
.
Replace with "older" flash
Turn on "older flash"
Site in and focus on your subject ... and hit the shutter release


What are the results? Please post these two images.

Thank you :D

[DonSchap]

Okay ... just to make a point (I will assume you already have mounted the lens):

Part I
Put the 430EX on the camera's hot shoe
Turn on the 430EX
Turn on the EOS camera
.
On the EOS camera, do the following:
Turn the Mode Dial on the camera to "M"
Set the aperture to f/5.6
Set the shutter speed to 1/60 sec.
Set ISO to 400

Rear view of Canon 430EX Speedlight
30967
.
On the 430EX:
With the "MODE" button, while looking at the Flash's LCD panel, select "M" mode, not "E-TTL"
Make sure the setting says "1/1" (this is full blast)
Look through the camera's viewfinder, site in and focus on your subject ... and then press the camera's shutter release
.
Part II
Shut off & Remove 430EX
Replace with "older" Canon flash unit
Turn on "older" flash
Look through the camera's viewfinder, site in and focus on the very same subject ... and then press the camera's shutter release


What are the results? I truly would expect the two images to look very similar. This should prove to you that your flash is capable of generating a generous amount of flash power. Now, you need to learn how to manipulate it under E-TTL conditions ... and thus begins the real training.

Please post these two images, after resizing them to 600x400, in this thread for review.

Thank you :D

[cdifoto]

www.photonotes.org/eos-flash

[Nickcanada]

www.photonotes.org/eos-flash

What!?! who let this slack jawed hick back in!?! :confused::mad:

[24Peter]

What!?! who let this slack jawed hick back in!?! :confused::mad:

YeaHowdy!! It's alive! :D

[Vich]

www.photonotes.org/eos-flash
Nice link, oh man of few words! :)

To OP: There's a bit to know about using flash, but the basics are pretty simple. That link covers the subject in depth.

However; in A or P mode, it's a no-brainer. "M" mode is also pretty straight forward if you're practiced a bit. Just make sure your flash and exposure compensation aren't set too low and it'll usually set correct intensity.

There are a few caveats however.

For example;
1. Make sure your camera's metering method is not on SPOT, unless you intended that. If you choose to use SPOT METERING, then just realize that the exact center that you're pointing at will determine what gets exposed correctly.

2. For best results, use the Flash Exposure Lock button. On the 30D, that's a "*" button, not sure about the XTi. That fires a blip of a test flash, takes a measurement off whatever it's pointed at, and locks that reading for the very next shot (then it's reset).

3. When you point the camera straight up, or at 45 degrees, or pointed pretty much anywhere except straight at the subject, then it becomes a guessing game (due to unknown flash-bounce qualities of the wall/ceiling/objects). That's where the FE Lock button really comes in handy! Note: Straight-on flash leaves a bad flash-burn on most subjects and is not recommended except in outdoor (sunny) fill-flash situations.



Please post some sample shots. Brighter is not always better.

[24Peter]

430EX on a 40D bounced off ceiling:

http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter/uploads/upload2/large/IMG_2784.JPG

[24Peter]

Another one:

http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter/uploads/upload2/large/IMG_2796.JPG

Both taken in Tv mode with e-TTL metering.

[RichNY]

www.photonotes.org/eos-flash

The Prodigal poster has returned!