Portrait Lens Question: 50mm vs 85mm

[DLugassy]

Hi, Everyone:
I know that many of you tout the 50mm 1.4 as superior to the 50mm 1.8...

Also, I keep reading how terrific the 85mm lens is for portraits, too.
The 85mm would force the photographer to stand back much further from his subject than the 50mm would...
I imagine it would be more ideal for 'studio portraits'?

I love a good prime lens, but with my newly purchased 50mm (F/1.8), I see that I stand plenty far back from my kids to take informal portraits.

So, do I really need an 85mm? Would it's far superior quality be of importance to someone like me?

Thanks, guys!!!

[coldrain]

You can of course take portraits of people with whatever lens you fancy. But what makes a portrait lens a portrait lens is that its focal length is a short tele lens, which achieves 2 things...

1. A short tele lens will give a slight flattening of perspective, which makes for flattering results.

2. A short tele will allow for quite shallow depth of field, allowing you to separate the subject from the background.

The typical portrait focal range is between 80-135mm.
So, 85mm and 135mm lenses traditionally are portrait lenses, and their optics often are better than other lenses because of the care lens designers take with these critical focal lengths.

So... it is less about the distance to the subject that makes them "ideal" portrait lenses, more about the effect the focal length has on a portrait.

50mm of course is the "standard" focal length on full frame. But on a Canon APS-C it becomes a 50 x 1.6 = 80mm lens, so in the portrait range.
The 85mm will become a 85 x 1.6 = 136mm, so it becomes a long portrait lens.
A 135mm portrait lens gets to be a bit long on APS-C, yet still you can use it for portrait if you want... The optical qualities of the 135mm primes is excellent.

The importance to you... the focal length you want to use is more important than the sharpness or other qualities of a lens. So... if 50mm is a focal length that suits you, there is no reason to consider a longer portrait lens.

The Canon 60mm (96mm) f2.8 macro and the Sigma 70mm (112mm) f2.8 macro (and also the Tamron 90mm (144mm) f2.8 macro) can double as portrait lenses too, they will give excellent results wide open. And of course will give macro abilities.

Another lens that may be of interest to you... the Canon 35mm f2. It is affordable, good, and has a nice focal length... 35 x 1.6 = 56mm... close to 50mm standard focal length.
Another lens in that class is the Sigma 30mm f1.4 (48mm).
They are very nice for indoor shooting, with a natural perspective and you don't have to keep the same distance as with your 50 (80)mm lens.

[michaelb]

What Coldy said. :D

The 85mm f/1.8 is a fantastic lens, but this long FL is difficult to use in a small indoor setting (on a 1.6 crop). I really want one for outdoor portraits. Its sharp wide open at f/1.8 which alows you to really isolate your subject from the background with nice bokeh.

I use my 60mm macro and my 50mm f/1.8 for portraits now. The USM on the 60mm is really nice for moving targets (esp kids!!).


Here's one of my niece with the 50mm f/1.8 @ f/2.2....
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1439/1465007241_c7c25a8814.jpg




Another niece with the 60mm macro at f/3.2..
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1288/1253930060_eab72e42bd.jpg

[humbertklyka]

I obviously was completely wrong, as I thought the perspective of a lens is the same no matter if you use FF or cropped sensor,and that it only was the FOV that changed.

[coldrain]

I might be completely wrong, but as I understood it the perspective of a lens is the same no matter if you use FF or cropped sensor. If thats true, both 85 and 135mm lenses would then work nice as portrait lenses on a crop sensor, but the 135 will require a longer working distance.
In this case, you are wrong. The perspective changes the wider te view gets... when you crop away width, the perspective does change as the width gets less.

With the same focal length, to fill the frame the same, you have to get closer with a full frame camera. This may make it more understandable for you, as to why the perspective changes.

[michaelb]

An 85mm lens is an 85mm lens is an 85mm lens regardless of the camera, but with a crop sensor your 85mm will produce an image that is equivalent to about 135mm on a FF camera.

[Nickcanada]

What FL you chose is a very personal choice and your style will play a very important part in your choice.

If you are unsure which FL to chose try keeping one of your zoom lenses at a specific FL for a day or two and see how much you like it, repeat for each FL you are interested in.


If you find 50mm too long try 30mm or 35mm.

[24Peter]

To the OP: CR gave a very concise analysis and everyone else's comments are also good. But to boil it down a bit, for the kind of shooting you plan on doing you may find the 85 1.8 too long, esp. on a crop camera. The 85mm is a better portrait length (i.e., head & shoulders - a 50mm tends to exaggerate the nose a bit if you frame for only head & shoulders, even on a crop body IMO). But if you're shooting kids in a confined area, as they say in NY "foggitaboutit". You'll do much better with the niffty fiffty.

[chardog]

Hi, Everyone:
I know that many of you tout the 50mm 1.4 as superior to the 50mm 1.8...

Also, I keep reading how terrific the 85mm lens is for portraits, too.
The 85mm would force the photographer to stand back much further from his subject than the 50mm would...
I imagine it would be more ideal for 'studio portraits'?

I love a good prime lens, but with my newly purchased 50mm (F/1.8), I see that I stand plenty far back from my kids to take informal portraits.

So, do I really need an 85mm? Would it's far superior quality be of importance to someone like me?

Thanks, guys!!!
in short, no; keep your 50mm.

I had both the 50 1.8 and 85 1.8 and while the 85 was sharper @ 1.8, it did not make much difference on print. The 50 is a good range, and a bit long. The 85 is very long, and taking pictures indoors is uncomfortable unless you have a lot of working space. Both VERY good lens, but the 85 has quite a bit more reach (which can work for or against you, depending on situation).

[JTL]

as they say in NY "foggitaboutit".Yo, Petey! Youz guys don't know what you're talkin' about here. It's spelt "fagedaboutit". You got dat? :D:p:D

[DonSchap]

Sometimes, you can get a little too close with a close up and .. I don't know, you sniff it out with a 15mm ... and for some odd reason ... it just doesn't look right.

30775


Comments? Should we focus on what's just a little too ... wide, for a good portrait? I know it had ears :eek:

[GaryS]

Don, that is a spectacular portrait.... Although, personally, I don't usually allow Otters in my house! jk.

Great shot.

[coldrain]

Don, that is a spectacular portrait.... Although, personally, I don't usually allow Otters in my house! jk.

Great shot.
I have the impression Don did not make that photo, dusty P.

[DLugassy]

Thanks for all the input, guys! Very helpful, indeed. For now, I'll stick with my nifty fifty!

Don, I know there is such a thing as a hairless cat, but an EARLESS one?!?:rolleyes:

[Rhys]

Opinion is divided about the perfect portrait lens. Some say 135mm and others 85mm (on a 35mm system).

I always reckoned on 85mm being perfect as did many of my friends. In fact somebody did come up with a mathematical explanation of why 85mm was best.

In terms of digital, I reckon 50mm is best for most crop cameras and 85mm for non-crop.

Oddly enough a ton of manufacturers thought that 85mm - 105mm was the perfect length, producing lenses of 85mm, 90mm, 100mm and 105mm, each of which was marketed as portrait - many of which also had fantastic macro capabilities.

The important thing for a portrait lens is that it has a flat field. If the field is not flat then your portraits could look a bit odd with a big nose in focus and the eyes out of focus. The important thing is to focus on the eyes.

[DonSchap]

No, it's not my 15mm shot ... I have little use for that type of glass, but I found it amusing ... so I thought I'd share with you "portrait poppers", since the discussion was kind of laggin'.

I'm still trying to figure out how to make good use of Coldrain's TAMRON SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di and get the people to look good. One of these days ... it'll hit me. :rolleyes:

Just remember, if your subject is missing ears ... you are either too wide, too close, or both.

[erichlund]

I don't know if Canon does the same as Nikon, but I suspect they do. In that regard, Nikon tunes lenses for different tasks. The 85mm lenses are specifically designed reproduce excellent skin tones and produce great bokeh. This is the only real problem with using a 50 or 60mm lens as a portrait lens. They were not optimized optically for that task. In fact, typically, this length is probably optimized for only one thing, ultimate sharpness, since on a 35mm format, it is the most general of lenses, the "normal" lens.

I can't comment on the Canon lineup, but I don't find the skin tones particularly exceptional on the Nikkor 50mm f1.8, and the bokeh is marginal. They lack that sharp yet soft look (seems like a contradiction, but it's not) that is characteristic of a good portrait lens. The 50mm f1.4 is better, but still not up to the same standard as even the cheaper 85mm f1.8 (vs the 85 f1.4).

If I were a DX (it's a Nikon thing) portrait photographer, I'd be really excited about the upcoming Cosina Voightlander (sp?) 58mm f1.4 which is designed specifically to be a DX portrait lens (The APS-C version of the 85mm f1.4). I don't know if they will introduce a Canon mount for this lens, but Canon can use Nikon type lenses with an adapter. Something to think about. It is chipped to meter on Nikons (even the D40), though it is a manual focus lens.

[coldrain]

Will Cosina market it outside Japan? The Canon EOS cameras can also meter with Nikon lenses, you can use any Nikon lens as long as it has an aperture ring. Otherwise one can not close the aperture...

[erichlund]

Will Cosina market it outside Japan? The Canon EOS cameras can also meter with Nikon lenses, you can use any Nikon lens as long as it has an aperture ring. Otherwise one can not close the aperture...

I don't know about Europe, but there are U.S. reps for Cosina lenses. B&H carries some Voigtlander. Stephen Gandy (CameraQuest) would be another thing to search under. Stephen is reported to be very reliable.

[RichNY]

But if you're shooting kids in a confined area, as they say in NY "foggitaboutit".

It's good to see you are prepared for you move to the right coast :)

When do you expect to relocate out this way?

[24Peter]

It's good to see you are prepared for you move to the right coast :)

When do you expect to relocate out this way?

Early next year. I'm actually here now with my nieces... :D