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Razr
11-04-2007, 10:58 PM
Focal Length 'Equivalents'
There is a lot of misunderstanding out in the world of photography about focal length, aperture, field-of-view (FOV), and depth of field (DOF). If there's one thing I hate arguing about, writing about, and educating people about, it's these topics—especially DOF. Misunderstanding of DOF is ineradicable. Arguments always follow assertions about it. It was that way in 1910, and 1940, and 1980, and it's that way now, and it will be that way in 2030 and 2050—regardless of what I or anybody else might say about it, now or ever. I edited a technical magazine about photography for six years; take my word for this.

When "translating" a focal length, all we're doing is bringing back a FOV crop to a context that is more or less readily understandable to people because it's familiar and/or standardized. With digital's multiplicity of format sizes, it's become conventional to "translate" FOV crops into 35mm equivalents—and it amazes me that anyone still questions this, since it's a widespread practice with digicams, many of which use the 35mm equivalent focal lengths in their menu systems or even engraved on their lens barrels.

When I write that a 150mm ƒ/2 lens on 4/3rds format is "equivalent" to a 300mm ƒ/2 lens in 35mm, no, the actual focal length of the lens hasn't changed—it's still 150mm. And no, the aperture doesn't change either. You don't have to "translate" that ƒ/2 to ƒ/4 or ƒ/5.6 to "be consistent." There's one thing that does change, and that's DOF, and yes, you would have to stop down the lens on the larger format to get the same DOF for identical scene FOVs—but aperture is not primarily a control of, or a measure of, DOF; it's primarily a measure of exposure.
(Continued) http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2007/08/there-is-a-lot-.html


Quite interesting.

Prospero
11-05-2007, 12:47 AM
Quite interesting.

That's quite interesting indeed.

The text you quote gives exactly the same information about DOF that I have tried to explain to you in like three other threads and that you refuted each time...

The text says that the lens on the larger format with the same field of view has to be stopped down more to get the same depth of field as the lens on a smaller format. Thus, with 4/3rds lenses you can not achieve as shallow a depth of field as with lenses with an equivalent field of view on the larger formats.

The lenses of the 4/3rd system may be faster, but they will not isolate the subject from the background as much. For many this does not need to be a disadvantage, but it is something that must be taken into consideration.

coldrain
11-05-2007, 05:43 AM
The DOF actually does change with a 2x crop camera for instance, compared to a 35mm full frame 135 system.

If both use a 100mm f2 lens, the depth of field in the cropped center part will be the same. But with the 2x crop camera, you will enlarge that center part on the same size photo print. And with enlarging, the depth of field will get more shallow (things sooner look out of focus when you enlarge an image).

So a discussion about focal lengths, crop factors and DOF is even more complex.

Prospero
11-05-2007, 05:57 AM
The DOF actually does change with a 2x crop camera for instance, compared to a 35mm full frame 135 system.

If both use a 100mm f2 lens, the depth of field in the cropped center part will be the same. But with the 2x crop camera, you will enlarge that center part on the same size photo print. And with enlarging, the depth of field will get more shallow (things sooner look out of focus when you enlarge an image).

So a discussion about focal lengths, crop factors and DOF is even more complex.

Yep, that's true. In the DOF equation the Circle of Confusion variable changes due to the enlargement.
However, the doubling of physical focal length for a full frame system when compared to a 4/3rd system has a lot larger effect than the change of the circle of confusion variable.

Rooz
11-05-2007, 06:01 AM
circle of confusion.

a thoroughly appropriate comment given the circumstances. :)

BBPhoto
11-05-2007, 06:04 AM
Hey Coldy!


The DOF actually does change with a 2x crop camera for instance, compared to a 35mm full frame 135 system.

This is true. Everyone knows that aperture controls DOF but it is only one factor. The others being focal length, distance to subject and sensor (or film) size. The smaller the sensor, the bigger the DOF. Getting a portrait shot out of a compact digital that has a really blurry background is near impossible. The size of the sensor provides way too much DOF. Great for macro, I guess.

Say Razr, I'm still waiting for a response here. Maybe you forgot?:

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35122

JTL
11-05-2007, 11:01 AM
It never ceases to amaze the great lengths (pun intended?) some people will go through to rationalize the fact that the 4/3s system is not capable of the same shallowness of DOF (and thusly, subject isolation) as APS-C or full frame for a given f/stop. Just a lot of blah, blah, blah....and more blah, blah, blah.

It's so tiring. And even more boring. It is what is is. Get over it.