Please Help!!! Blurred look to pictures when using fill flash

[photography*by*cbr]

Hello! I am in need of help to a problem I am having while using fill flash in my portraits.

A little info...I use a Canon 20D with a Speedlight 580 flash. I use a 28-135 3.5-5.6 Canon lens, a 50mm Canon lens, and 70-200 f4 L-Series lens. a The problem I am having is when I shoot location work using the flash for fill, I almost always end up with a 'fringing' or soft out-of-focus look. In most cases it looks like motion blur or a double exposure. It is very evident on teeth, eyes, and on faces in general. I always shoot with a minimum shutter speed of 1/60 of a second...most of the time it is faster than that. I have tried using the image stabilization and it doesn't do much to help. I shoot on a Custom Bracket when the camera is hand held, so I have a nice sturdy bracket. This problem even happens when I use a tripod.

I don't get it... I must be missing something. Please let me know what my problem is. I'm sure it is a stupid operator error and I am just making an idiotic mistake. It is so frustrating to miss a great shot and I'd love any help you can give. I have posted pictures of the problem at www.richbeginnings.com/problem Please look and let me know any suggestions. I appreciate it so much!!!!!!!

[BBPhoto]

Welcome to the forum. Is this happening with all of your lenses? Does it happen when you are using the flash while shooting in full manual mode rather than just for fill? Are you using TTL or setting the flash manaully? Have you tried another body or flash unit?

[photography*by*cbr]

Hi, and thanks!

O.k., yes... I think it is happening with them all. I really am not sure. I always seem to fumble quite unsure through the outdoor location sessions. I think I doubt myself and my equipment too much. (Even though I have a degree in photography) I am so afraid something is going to mess up that In doing so I probably make it happen.

I usually don't shoot in full manual much on location because I am so afraid the light will change and mess up all my exposures. I just assume set it on shutter priority (so I can be sure it wont drop below 1/60) and let it compensate.

Should I set it faster... say 80 or 100? What about lower light situations...say where it says I should shoot at wide open or f4 at 1/60? I know I can't go below 1/60.

I usually shoot at 200 ISO so I won't get the noise or grain... could I go up to 400 in those situations? How will enlargements look?

Flash is in ETTL mode and I usually have to bump it to add a little kick to it. Is it not powerful enough? Could something be wrong with the flash?

I only have one camera body and the one flash unit... but I used to have a Qflash and it did the same thing with the fringing and soft effect. It's gotta be the camera or the idiot operator.

Sorry to bombard you with questions... I just feel so stuck!

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!

[BBPhoto]

It sounds and looks like you may be getting motion blur.

Shutter speed. The general rule of thumb is that your shutter speed should be no less than 1/lens focal length. This would mean shooting @ no less than 1/60 with a 60mm lens, 1/400 with a 400mm lens, etc. I usually like to shoot a little faster than that. If you throw IS into the mix, you can lower the shutter speed by the number of stops that your IS will compensate for when shooting static subjects. Older IS lenses will compensate 1, maybe 2 stops maximum while newer IS will compensate 2 stops at minimum and often 3 effectively. Using older non-tripod sensing lenses with IS active on a tripod can cause blur and soft shots so it should be turned off when using a tripod.

Regarding ISO, a lower setting will produce a cleaner image but 400 can be more than acceptable depending on the lighting the shot was taken in and the size of the print. Still, the flash you are using is a good unit and I see no reason why it wouldn't provide you with enough light to keep your ISO low and your shutter speed sufficiently fast to deal with motion blur (for stuff like your sample images anyway) if you were going full manual but I am thinking that if you are using it for fill there is a very good likelihood that there is enough ambient light for faster shutter speeds than you are using. You could try opening up your aperture. Portraits don't generally require a large depth of field. Most of mine are shot @ f/2.8 with very good results.

If I were you, I would set myself up with a test model or yourself and the timer and shoot away for an afternoon in conditions similar to your shoots. Experiment with your flash, ISO, shutter speed and f/stop. I'm sure you'll find that you can eliminate motion blur. Good luck.

[SpecialK]

Well, as your camera is on a tripod and the subject is essentially motionless, I think you can rule out motion blur.

I can not offer a clue as to what it is as I've never seen anything like your samples :-(

[JTL]

Hello! I am in need of help to a problem I am having while using fill flash in my portraits...
Are you sure your flash is syncing properly?

Did you try setting the flash unit to High-Speed Sync and using a faster shutter speed?

or

Is the custom function for shutter sync set to 2nd Curtain Sync by mistake?

[photography*by*cbr]

JTL,

do you think I should just put in on high speed sync to be on the safe side and leave it there since it will go with all shutter speeds? Will it be o.k. with something as slow as 1/60?

If this is truly compatible with all shutter speeds... what it the purpose of the plain ole' regular setting? (not sure the proper name... not high and not curtain?)

Also...I am really not understanding the Second-Curtain Sync. Is it just for a cool effect like for say a birde walking down the aisle and having some blur behind her and then one burst of flash to finish it off?

I know I have a lot to learn... I am so hoping to soak up all of the tidbits I have forgotten since I graduated 10 years ago...LOL!

[photography*by*cbr]

nqjudo,

Thanks for the tip on the shutter speed/foal length of lens help. I actually remember that now that you mentioned it. I gave it a test shot with my 70-200 on 200 and shot one at 1/60 (blurry) and one at 1/200 (sharp). That just may be my problem. Fr some reason the '60th of a second is the slowest without a tripod' thing stuck in my brain and that is just not the case with longer lenses. Thanks!! It's a handy thing to remember. I am planning a test shoot this weekend and hope to try all the things people have suggested.
Thanks!!

[JTL]

JTL,

do you think I should just put in on high speed sync to be on the safe side and leave it there since it will go with all shutter speeds? Will it be o.k. with something as slow as 1/60?

If this is truly compatible with all shutter speeds... what it the purpose of the plain ole' regular setting? (not sure the proper name... not high and not curtain?)

Also...I am really not understanding the Second-Curtain Sync. Is it just for a cool effect like for say a birde walking down the aisle and having some blur behind her and then one burst of flash to finish it off?

I know I have a lot to learn... I am so hoping to soak up all of the tidbits I have forgotten since I graduated 10 years ago...LOL!Don't shoot at 1/60! Shoot at 1/200 or higher!

With my 2nd curtain sync question/advice...I just wanted you to check your custom settings and make sure it wasn't set that way by mistake. If it was, it could cause the "double exposure" effect you spoke of in your first post.

[photography*by*cbr]

I know I shouldn't shoot at a speed that slow... but what about conditions where light is lower and I don't want the background to fall off and look too dark. I do like some detail behind... but like to have DOF fall off for effect and don't want it to be really dark and plain.

Also, what if the light is low... say right at/after sunset or in shade and I need to slow it down to get the proper exposure? Just go with a different lens? Say... my 50mm 1.4? I do realize the '1/focal length rule of thumb' for shutter speed... I just want to be sure I will be able to shoot it and get proper exposure.

Thanks!

[TheObiJuan]

I shoot in bars or at parties all the time.
I bump ISO up to ISO 1600, shoot at -1/3FEC, and f/4 to keep everything in focus. Usually my shutter speeds are from 1/8-1/80th without motion blur.
If I'm not shooting still people I bump it up to ISO 3200, f/2.2, and 1/125 with flash at 0EV.

I never really get motion blur. It's important to premeter the exposure in advance with * otherwise the camera will preflash and folks will move before you capture the image thinking the image has been taken already.

http://www.styleandspeed.com/theobijuan/pics/fun/IMG_1623%20(Small).JPG
50mm, f/2.5, 1/20, ISO 1600.

[MT Stringer]

I shot this pic (and many more) with the 20d on manual. Shutterspeed set at 1/250. F-stop at 3.2; ISO 800. The 430EX flash was set on Auto. I had metered the sky previously and set the lens aperature and ISO for that reading. The stadium lights were already on. Overall, the pics turned out pretty good.

Hope this helps.
Mike

[Vich]

I shoot in bars or at parties all the time.
I bump ISO up to ISO 1600, shoot at -1/3FEC, and f/4 to keep everything in focus. Usually my shutter speeds are from 1/8-1/80th without motion blur.
If I'm not shooting still people I bump it up to ISO 3200, f/2.2, and 1/125 with flash at 0EV.

I never really get motion blur. It's important to premeter the exposure in advance with * otherwise the camera will preflash and folks will move before you capture the image thinking the image has been taken already.

http://www.styleandspeed.com/theobijuan/pics/fun/IMG_1623%20(Small).JPG
50mm, f/2.5, 1/20, ISO 1600.

That's a spot-on answer Obi.

Question I had for the OP is how you define fill-flash - and what mode you shoot in (Tv or Av?). A few photos would replace a lot of words. Your description sounds a lot like the blur of the ambient light motion after the flash.

Think of the sensor exposure in terms of units-of-light that reaches it over the time it is exposed. When you use a flash, it groups most of those light units into a very very short time (like 1/10,000th) despite the shutter being exposed far longer. If enough light units creep in after the flash, and things move around, you will get shadowing.

Also note; if your flash doesn't reach parts of the subject (like a group shot) those parts will be darker proportional to the flash intensity. A very short (mild) burst of light (like ObiJuan's situation of very high ISO and fast lenses) will require faster shutter speeds - but the lighting will be more even.

Hope that helps

[DonSchap]

Slower shutter speeds (>1/60 sec) will reveal ANY movement by a subject, after the flash goes off, causing an "exposure issue." The flash used will flood and usually freeze the subject, if synchronized ... but, any exposure time beyond the flash will obviously betray the subsequent movement.

No flash
30767

Fill flash
30768

That sounds like the problem here. You are setting exposure time for the ambient lighting and using the flash to "quick freeze" your moving subject. What you are seeing are the highlights moving, just a bit with breathing and other necessary bodily movements.

As you know, the rule says that 1/60 is usually the bottom, with people, unless they consciously know they are being photographed and hold very still. You also could be encountering moving light sources around you ... which can produce some eerie and bizarre effects in the image. Look at the bizarre lighting I got with this moving object. :eek: LOL

The issue here, as always, is movement of something ... lights, camera, subject. Only your time (of exposure) will tell. :D