View Full Version : Time To Flash
So the time has some to start purchasing strobes. I know very little about whats good and whats not so Im looking to you guys to enlighten me a bit. Fortunately while shooting a bball camp this past weekend I was able to observe the other guys set up up close and talk with him about it. I think I would like to start off with a 1-2 umbrella kit. His set up was wired and the flashes hooked into a hub where you controlled power and that hub attached to the 30d's hot shoe to trigger them all. Is there any advantages to wireless set up that makes it worth buying over a wired set up? Because I would imagine wireless cost more.
As you can see I am starts from complete scratch and some what in the dark. From what I observed from videos and such I think a good starting point would be 1 umbrella flash and an off camera SB600 (can you only trigger a sb600 wirelessly?)
Sorry if I ramble Im horrible at putting my thoughts into words sometimes.
His set up
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8623/dsc7494vn0.jpg
TheObiJuan
10-16-2007, 07:46 PM
Wireless is better because top heavy stands falling on innocent people= lawsuits.
The wires stuff is asking for accidents.
There are inexpensive ebay wireless triggers that you could try.
I just purchased some umbrellas from Amvona on ebay for cheap. Quality is high for the price.
I also purchased some 10' stands and flash/umbrella adapters from discountbulbs on ebay.
I also got a 5-in-1 reflector from Amvona too. It's crucial to keep the shadows off of the face.
How much did you spend total? I wouldnt say money is a problem because Im going to save as much as I need to save to get quality stuff.
TheObiJuan
10-16-2007, 11:21 PM
The two stands were sold together: $19; shipping $11
The Flash/umbrella adapter: $.99; shipping $10
Reflector: $13; shipping $10
Umbrella: $17; shipping $10
The stands are quality, just not as light as their bogen counterparts.
The reflector is exactly the same as $80 name brand ones.
The umbrella is just as good as others I've seen.
Amvona's softboxes, tripods, and umbrellas are all good quality. They are inexpensive too.
I saw a comparison on youtube of a 400 softbox vs amvona $70 softbox.
They were considered comporable.
Now monoblocs or head, that's a different issue. I would not purchase Amvona's because of warranty and reliability.
achuang
10-17-2007, 05:45 AM
I'm going to take a look on ebay since they sound very affordable. Does the flash/umbrella adaptor fit on a tripod mount? I'm asking because I've got a monopod with with tripod legs that can be folded out of the base, one of the manfrotto ones. I could use that as a light stand. Probably not as stable, but I've also got a tripod.
And what to choose from, is a softbox better than an umbrella or vice versa? And what's the difference between the reflector umbrella and the partially transparent one that you shoot through?
I was planning to wait til I had more money, but if the amvona equipment is that affordable then I could get it now.
erichlund
10-17-2007, 08:07 AM
Reg,
Those strobes in the picture have a lot larger light output than you will get from an on camera type flash, and to use large umbrellas and light boxes, you need that power.
But, the question becomes, what are you using the light for. What is your goal. Are you trying to set up a small studio (or large) that will get regular use, or do you just want to do some occasional nice family portraits?
If it's the former, then you need pro gear to do the job correctly. If the latter, you can generally get away with a lot less. If you have large camera shops in your area, they probably do fairly regular classes, and you should inquire about a studio lighting course. Even if you don't need that sort of setup, it's very enlightening, and will be helpful in setting up a more basic system.
If you do go with Nikkor flash, you will want at least one SB800. That will go on your camera and provide commander mode for your wireless setup. The other two (in a three flash setup) can be SB600s.
Reg,
Those strobes in the picture have a lot larger light output than you will get from an on camera type flash, and to use large umbrellas and light boxes, you need that power.
But, the question becomes, what are you using the light for. What is your goal. Are you trying to set up a small studio (or large) that will get regular use, or do you just want to do some occasional nice family portraits?
If it's the former, then you need pro gear to do the job correctly. If the latter, you can generally get away with a lot less. If you have large camera shops in your area, they probably do fairly regular classes, and you should inquire about a studio lighting course. Even if you don't need that sort of setup, it's very enlightening, and will be helpful in setting up a more basic system.
If you do go with Nikkor flash, you will want at least one SB800. That will go on your camera and provide commander mode for your wireless setup. The other two (in a three flash setup) can be SB600s.
Ill be using it pretty often and it will be for portraits (singles people and couples) and models. I wasnt thinking of going with an all nikon flash system I was thinking of starting with 1 umbrella and a SB600(or 800), then adding more umbrellas later.
Did I also mention that Ill need the ability to run on battery for locations where I cant get AC power? Again Im not looking to take the cheap way out, Im willing to spend what I need to spend to do this the right way. The only reason I mentioned the SB flash is because I was watching a video of a guy shooting his kid. He used 1 umbrella and a snooted EX flash off camera, his results were pretty nice. I dont need an entire set up to start with because of that fact that Im learning. So is 1 umb + 1 sb800 (adding 2 more umbrellas later) really a bad way to start?
Id be following the same formula as the picture able basically. The tall right umb is set to X , the right umb set to half the power of the left, the rear flash is just to give a nice lining of light along the persons body. So seeing as the sb800 would just be there to "fill in" some light on the opposite side of the umb is it really not powerful enough?
the sb800 is definitely powerful enuf for basic/ intermediate stuff. you'd be surprised at how many people are switching to sb800/ 580EX setups nowadays for part time portable studio work.
flash stands, (even old shity tripods which is what i use), and hotshoe heads that can mount umbrellas are pretty cheap nowadays and the portability/ lightness/ flexibility/ wireless capabilities of flashguns are invaluable to most people who don;t have a permanent studio. these guys are taking portable studios with them in a backpack including the background ! no shit. it may not get you into Vogue but they are very competant.
quality tips for flash gear from people who really know their shit can be found here. they've taught me more about photography in 6 months than i've learnt in 10 years.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/
this was the video tutorial i was looking for.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-umbrella-adapters.html
Basically what I will be doing is shooting models and the occupational portrait. Portability is a must because the majority of the shooting will be in public locations where there are no power outlets. For this SB flashes are very tempting because they are small battery powered and can be triggered wireless (not to mention they cost less). Now I understand that an SB800 and 600 srent as powerful as a dedicated strobe but Im not sure THAT much power is needed to achieve the results I want. Ive been watching videos like the one I posted of people using off camera flash systems and dedicated strobe systems and the end results seem to be quite similar. Starting with a 2 piece SB system seems to be more cost efficient for the learning process. Strobes can always be added later when needed while in the mean time that extra money I would have had to spend on strobes can instead go toward a Nikon D80.
SB800 + SB600 + wireless hotshoe trigger = about $500 USD. Add in 2 stands, 2 umbrellas, and a snoot or 2 and we are looking at close to 600 bucks Im guessing. Now thats about the price of the strobe kits ive seen online but the big difference is the SB system is way more portable and portability is a huge factor.
Sound like a plan?
SB800 + SB600 + wireless hotshoe trigger = about $500 USD. Add in 2 stands, 2 umbrellas, and a snoot or 2 and we are looking at close to 600 bucks Im guessing. Now thats about the price of the strobe kits ive seen online but the big difference is the SB system is way more portable and portability is a huge factor.
Sound like a plan?
not to mention, no battery packs or power required; easy as 1-2-3 setup and adjustment of flash power and exposures, you can use the SB's as on camera flash aswell. the advantages are endless. if you want to go cheaper you can always grab some older vivitar or even nikon flashs which will be considerabley cheaper in some cases.
you will of course need to chime in some cash for rechargable AA batteries to power your strobes. eneloop are the ones to get.
LOL cost of batteries are trivial. I had actually bookmarked a link to a Vivitar flash a while back because I heard it was a good flash for less than an SB flash. But is it equal to or better then an SB600?
aparmley
10-17-2007, 01:52 PM
Seriously r3g you need to grab a few cold ones and spend a six pack over at The Strobist blog. (http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/02/welcome-to-strobist.html)
I would not under estimate the cheap old SB-24,26s - I tell you if I did it over again I'd take the cost savings between the SB-26s and the SB-800s or (600s) and put it towards Pocketwizards. . . This would be a much more versatile strobe set up (SB-26 + pocketwizard) than simply an SB-(6)800.
HAHAAH. Well thanks for all the info guys
I am ordering the 4 chan wireless trigger and an sb 600 right now. it doesnt need the 800 to trigger off camera correct? ill order the 800 when i get payed on friday. also looking for stands and heads (any suggestions?)
lol i thought this topic may drag you out of hiding. well done reggie. :p
the stands and adaptors are a dime a dozen mate on ebay mate. take your pick.
XaiLo
10-17-2007, 02:57 PM
I like strobist.blog;) they've got some good stuff going on over there.
Ive had it bookmarked for the longest time but have yet to sit down and look at it.. Damn you Team Fortress 2!!!!!!!
Oh yeah I just came from the store and picked up a Lowepro CompDaypack and a 67mm Polarizer for my sigma ;)
the stands and adaptors are a dime a dozen mate on ebay mate. take your pick.
I just want to make sure I get quality stuff. Not sure what brands and such are worth while
TheObiJuan
10-17-2007, 04:04 PM
I love strobist! I've gone there daily ever since Parm introduced me to it months ago.
Lots of learning!
B&H sells the inexpensive Vivitar 285's which are very good flashes. They work only in manual mode, but get the job done!
An SB-800 for fill and a few 285's would a killer combo.
I recommend reading up on lighting over at strobist an wherever else you can.
There is so damn much to learn!
achuang
10-17-2007, 08:21 PM
I just want to make sure I get quality stuff. Not sure what brands and such are worth while
I'm wondering the same thing r3g. It's even worse that I'm starting exams next week and i shouldn't be getting distracted by this stuff.
i can only speak for myself reg, i bought cheap "no name" ebay specials and they work fine. i didn't even bother with hotshoe adaptors cos the nikon SB's come with a tripod mountable stand anyway.
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