First time DSL for indoor sports

[tmrkterry]

Hello - thanks for your help!

I've got some old 35 mm experience, but would like to try a dslr.

this is for fun and to share with other parents.

Plan on shooting alot of basketball. Problem with 35mm was getting enough light w/out big time expensive lens.

Any low end cameras and lenses that will handle indoor lighting suggestions?

thanks

Mark

[TheWengler]

What's your budget? How close will you be to the action?

[tmrkterry]

I'd love to get started with no more than $1000. I'll be sideline at these games.

[SpecialK]

Lucky you will be on the sidelines. Bleachers would cost another $500.

The Pentax K100D has good low-light/high-ISO (say, 800) performance, in-body stabilization, and goes for about $460 with kit lens. Don't get the kit lens. The Sigma 18-50mm 2.8 is available at Cameta Camera for $300, though you might want a lens out to about 70 mm for less cropping.

I don't know if Will has sold his 28-75 yet.
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/12886-fs-tamron-28-75-f-2-8-xr-di.html

[TheObiJuan]

I've shot all sorts of indoor sports with various equipment in various locations.
I've found ALL but professional arenas have poor lighting.
It's good to the eyes but not strong enough to allow fast AND correct exposures without high ISO.
F/2.8 glass is required, f/2 or faster would be ideal. Depends on the DOF you require.

I see many college and pro shooters [sport level, not photog level] shoot at ISO 1600 with f/2.8 glass just to stop motion.
You never really want to use flash, so you're stuck with avail lighting.

Now with ISO 3200 usable [with correct exposure] and ISO 6400 becoming usable, people are finally allowed to shoot at f/4 to get more DOF when needed.

I would shoot college volleyball/Basketball/and gymnastics an a 20D and 1DMKII with a couple of 135L's and a 1.4x for the 20D to get even more oomph.
The 135L gave good full body shots, the 20D great cropped shots.
I noticed with tighter crops I would get faster SS since the background wasn't affecting the exposure as much.

So.... to sum it up:
Look for a camera with great ISO performance at above ISO 800 and a manufacturer that allows fast glass. With indoor sports IS wont make much difference since you need to stop action.
Canon used to rule the High ISO, but Nikon last year stepped it up with the D40 and D80.
Sadly, imho, Pentax is still behind. ISO 800 is barely usable, any higher is not.

We'll see how Sony does with the A700?

My suggestion?
Canon 400D, 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8.
Up the budget and get the 30D for SPOT exposure and ISO 3200.

[TheWengler]

Here are the options I see:

As mentioned by SpecialK, the Pentax K100D with the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8. However, Pentax doesn't have too many budget primes. There's a 50mm f/1.4 that you can get for around $180. This lens is a little soft wide open and I'm not sure it's long enough for what you want. There's also a 70mm f/2.4. This one is a nice lens but costs around $450. The biggest plus of this setup is the in body IS, though it won't help you to stop action. Also the K100D doesn't have the greatest continuous shooting mode.

Another one to look at is the Canon XT ($450). You can pair this camera with the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 ($400) similar to the set up above. The primes that might be useful for you are the 85mm f/1.8 ($350) and the 100mm f/2 ($400). The down side of this set up is that you might not like the feel of the body and you won't have IS.

Keep in mind the crop factor for these cameras. Effectively the focal length of the lens you put on the camera will be about 1.5x what you're used to in 35mm format.

[TheWengler]

Sadly, imho, Pentax is still behind. ISO 800 is barely usable, any higher is not.

I think ISO 1600 is still usable on the Pentax, but it's doubtful my standards are as high as yours as I just made the jump to DSLR a few months ago from a horrible high ISO performer, the S3.

I'll post some ISO 1600 shots in a little bit so the TS can review them...

[tmrkterry]

Great help - keep the advice coming out there...

Any advice on refurb/used equipment and where to purchase??

[tmrkterry]

[QUOTE=TheObiJuan;256477]
I would shoot college volleyball/Basketball/and gymnastics an a 20D and 1DMKII with a couple of 135L's and a 1.4x for the 20D to get even more oomph.
The 135L gave good full body shots, the 20D great cropped shots.I noticed with tighter crops I would get faster SS since the background wasn't affecting the exposure as much.

.


Sorry - Could someone please interpret for me!!!

[TheObiJuan]

My apologies, we get caught up with the jargon sometimes and forget not everyone is up to speed--which is understandable. :p

The 20D is Canon's 3 year old 8.2MP Prosumer digital SLR. The 1DMKII is Canons professional sports camera: 1D Mark II. It is a few years old too. They have both since been replaced twice over.
The 1DMKII has a crop factor of 1.3, since its sensor is smaller than a fullframe camera.
The 20D has a crop factor of 1.6, same reason.

I would shoot with two Canon 135mm f/2L (L being the professional line) lenses and a 1.4x teleconverter. The 1.4x adds this focal length multiplier to the 1.6 of the cropped sensor and to the original 135mm f/2L. Giving a final 302mm field of view.

The 1DMKII had the 135L alone, giving 175mm field of view.
The 135L at f/2 gave beautifully blurred backgrounds and razor sharp images. I also liked the added stop of light. :)




I would shoot college volleyball/Basketball/and gymnastics an a 20D and 1DMKII with a couple of 135L's and a 1.4x for the 20D to get even more oomph.
The 135L gave good full body shots, the 20D great cropped shots.I noticed with tighter crops I would get faster SS since the background wasn't affecting the exposure as much.

.


Sorry - Could someone please interpret for me!!!

[TheWengler]

Alright, these are all taken with the K100D on ISO 1600. Click on the magnifying glass to view them full size.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lswenger/MorroBaySPFall2007/photo#5116238525365980242
http://picasaweb.google.com/lswenger/MorroBaySPFall2007/photo#5116237829581277730
http://picasaweb.google.com/lswenger/PadresVsGiantsFall2007/photo#5114428209535614754

[TheObiJuan]

Thanks for the images.
I see some images with lots of luminance noise?

Pentax does a good job of keeping sharpness at the expense of noise, both high chroma and luminance, but in print all three images would not be useful to me.

I had to shoot pics that were printable, this is why I was given Canon gear to shoot with.
Now things have changed, some manufacturers have realized that high ISO is necessary for more than just gallery viewing on the web at low resolution.


There is no need to get testy, I'm not attacking your equipment.
I could care less what brand I use, so long as it gets the job done.
Please don't think I'm trying to put your camera down. :o


OP, this was shot at ISO 1600 with the 20D and 135L.
I love the combo because the background stays smooth and virtually noise free.
http://www.styleandspeed.com/theobijuan/pics/135L/IMG_8593.jpg

[TheWengler]

No it's fine. I'm on a tight budget (as is everyone with a K100D) but wanted to move up to a DSLR. I'm not trying to convince anyone that the K100D is going to out perform a 20D, that would be silly. It works for me though as my favorite thing to shoot is landscapes not action. I also don't print large images (back to the budget) so to me it's acceptable.

Side note: I see you're from "Aggieland", would that be Davis?

[TheObiJuan]

Texas A&M University.
In College Station, Texas.
The students at the school are known as Aggies and town-Aggieland.

Davis, as in UC Davis-- they're known as aggies, too?

The 20D is not that great of a camera, especially when compared to the 1DMkII or 1DMKIIN.
It gets the job done efficiently. I just got another body for really really cheap. I couldn't pass it up. :p

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8650/highisoqp7.jpg

[TheWengler]

Davis, as in UC Davis-- they're known as aggies, too?

Just wanted to know where you live incase you dis my pictures again. ;) Just kidding. Yes, I was talking about UC Davis. Not too far away from where I live. I almost decided to go to school there.