Nikon d40 vs. Pentax K100

[tonay]

After all I've asked and read - I'm down to the Nikon D40 (kit) w/ the 55-200 VR lens and the Pentax (kit) w/ the 50-200 lens. The pentax has a $150 rebate on the 2.

Pentax seems to be the best current value price but Nikon has the staying power/market share vs. pentax and the VR lens gets good reviews.

This weekend at disney I checked the cameras on the photpass people and they use the d70 and the 55-200 VR.

My budget precludes the D80 and I really look forward to when Nikon offers in body IS when it comes out as well with the sensor dust shaking.

Am I making the best choice (Nikon) as far as a system to grow with?

[Rooz]

both systems offer good growth for the future. nikon and canon offer greater potential for body and lens growth for sure but thats predominantly focussed on the pro and semi-pro market. if thats not going to be you i don;t think its that relevant. you can always move up to the k10d or its replacement in the future if you wish to.

nikon's new pro range of cams have in body dust reduction so i expect they have caught onto what i consider to be the DR gimick and all bodies will have it from now on.

nikon and canon both use in-lens IS sytems so don;t hold your breath about nikon bodies having in-body IS cos it aint happening in the near future.

the d40 is a great entry level cam as long as you know it does not have an inbody AF motor. this means that you must buy either sigma HSM or nikon af-s lens' if you want your lens' to auto focus. there are plenty of both so i wouldn;t be too concerned but something for you to be aware of.

[tonay]

In the grand sceme of things - I would consider the bodies of the D40 and the K100D expendable in 2-3 yrs. I'm looking to really start a lens collection as I've read the glass remains as the bodies evolve. I'm not willing to buy another P&S and throw away that $ as I can invest it in my future use. Unfortunately for the canon XTi - I just don't like it's feel in my hand no matter how wonderful it is. My budget is $900 max now and the focus is lens vs. body.

[Rooz]

thats a very practical way to look at things. i would suggest that all of the lens' you use on either body will be transferable to your next body. i suspect you will need to make a decision on in-body or in-lens IS system first.

the advantage of in-body is that every lens is IS. the advantage of in-lens is that it offers better IS for telephoto lens'.

as i said before, future proofing with both systems is very good with the edge going to nikon at the moment. a d300 in 2-3 years time is a massive upgrade in body. pentax at this stage don;t offer anything close to that spec but i suspect the k10d replacement when it is released will be up there.

if telephoto lens' are going to be a big part of your kit makeup in years to come then the nikon system is a better option cos their in-lens IS for telephoto lens' offers better performance. there are also lots of options for you in this area like the 55-200VR and 70-300VR in consumer grade lens. and the exceptional 70-200VR in pro grade quality.

[r3g]

Ive bad much experience with both these cameras and both of them turn out really good pictures.. Best way to pick a camera is to play with it and see what feels best to you. In body IS is nice too.

[erichlund]

While I agree with the sentiment that you should try both out before you buy, let me briefly put on the
"Unrelenting Nikon Fanboy Hat". :D

However, this should just make sense. You are choosing between Nikon and Pentax. Which one is one of the two market leaders in dSLR cameras, and which one is not? All else being equal, or even close to equal, that should carry significant weight. It goes to availability of lenses and upgrades, wherever you should find yourself.

In case you are having difficulty with that question, go back and read the first paragraph.

[fionndruinne]

Yes, the Pentax is a great value, and it probably has a few features the D40 lacks. In-body stabilization is one of them. But if those things aren't terribly important to you, you'll without a doubt like the D40. Everything it does, it does well. Maybe this is me putting on my own Nikon fanboy hat (mine's a sombrero!), but with the D40 it feels as if Nikon's attention to detail was pretty much flawless. Everything is well-designed, menus are easy, ergonomics are great for such a small camera. All around it just says "like me!".:D Oh, and it takes good pictures!

I plan on acquiring a couple of good Sigma HSM lenses, then eventually stepping up to a D300. What's nice about the D40's need for in-lens motors is that these lenses have faster, more reliable autofocus ability than those without motors.

The Pentax uses AA batteries. I find that very odd. Some like it, but I find it more of a hassle than a single, more powerful, proprietary battery.

[swgod98]

Of course, there's also the K100D Super to spice things up a bit (budget providing) :D Is it out yet?

As far as I'm concerned the "Super" model fixes every weakness the K100D had :cool:

[r3g]

The only thing I can say bad about the K100d is the buffer on it is absolutely HORRID so continuous shooting is a no go.

[tonay]

I'm pretty much sold on the Nikon as I'm looking down the road. One of the many things I need to learn is what all the numbers mean when it comes to the lens info. Any good suggestions on educational sites or books for beginners?

[fionndruinne]

The Nikon and Sigma websites have some explanations as to lens categorizations. What specifically do you need explained?

[erichlund]

I'm pretty much sold on the Nikon as I'm looking down the road. One of the many things I need to learn is what all the numbers mean when it comes to the lens info. Any good suggestions on educational sites or books for beginners?

There are two types of numbers that define a lens capability. Focal Length in millimeters. Aperture in f number. Lenses come in two basic types, primes and zooms.

A prime has a single focal length and is optimized for that length. A zoom has a focal length range, but because it can represent many different focal lengths, the quality at any individual focal length is compromised. In very good zooms, this is only very marginal, and some of the newer zooms are better than some primes in their corresponding focal lengths, because they are newer and have more modern technology built into them.

The aperture is a measure of the amount of light the lens allows to pass through the diaphram of the lens. A small diaphram is represented by a relatively large number, allowing less light, and a large diaphram is represented by a smaller number, but lets in more light. It seems backwards, but you get used to it. If you read one of the exposure books someone is soon to recommend, you can get all the reasons and math on why it's done that way.

Aperture is measured in stops. On dSLR cameras, it's in 1/3 stops. To give you one small range, lets take f/2, 2.2, 2.5 and 2.8. f/2.8 is one full stop smaller than f/2 (with the other numbers being 1/3 increments between them, and so it lets in half the light of f/2. Therefore, to get the same exposure at f/2.8 that you get at f/2, you have to leave the shutter open twice as long.

Some common lenses you will probably start with on the Nikon D40 are:

Nikkor AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II

This lens has is a zoom form focal length 18mm (wide) to 55mm (short telephoto) and fully wide its most open aperture is f/3.5. The aperture gets smaller over its focal length range, so at some point, say 40mm, it can't get any more open than f/5.6. G is for lenses that don't have an aperture ring and can only be used on cameras able to set aperture electronically with camera controls (all dSLRs can do this). ED refers to special glass elements that improve lens performance. II just indicates that this is the second generation for this lens. Nikkor is the brand name of Nikon lenses. DX is for lenses designed for the APS-C sensor size, and, generally speaking, cannot be used on a full, 35mm frame camera. AF-S is for Auto Focus and the S indicates that the lens has the motor in the lens itself, something you need to autofocus with the D40/D40x, but not with other Auto Focus capable Nikon cameras. AF-S is the wave of the future, but it will take some time for Nikon to fully incorporate AF-S throughout their lens lineup.

Nikkor AF-S DX 55-200mm f/4-5.6 IF-ED VR

The only things new on this lens are IF and VR. IF means the lens has internal focus. This is useful when you want to use a polarizer, because the front of the lens does not rotate as you focus or zoom the lens. VR means the lens has vibration reduction, which reduces vibration from your hand shaking by up to 4 stops. It allows you to take an exposure in less light, using a slower shutter speed. It does not help with moving subjects. This lens goes from short telephoto to reasonably long telephoto.

A final note, the lens multiplier. The APS-C sensor is smaller than a full 35 mm film frame. As such, the sensor only uses the center portion of the light circle from the lens. This results in a narrower angle of view than you would get with a full sized sensor, as on the new D3 camera (Got $5000 laying around and willing to wait). So the resulting image from a 50mm lens on an APS-C sensor appears to have the same angle of view of a 75mm lens on the 35mm camera. In order to not make our brains hurt trying to adapt to a new set of focal lengths (can't teach an old dog new tricks), we apply a multiplier. So we say a 50mm lens acts like its actually 75mm. The danger in this is that only the apparent focal length is changed. Everything else stays the same. For Nikon cameras, the multiplier is 1.5 (except for the aforementioned D3), which is very convenient. Canon's vary, including 1.6, 1.3 and full frame. There may be others. Olympus and other 4/3 system cameras have a multiplier of 2.

Clears as mud, right. Read a book, I'm done.

[tonay]

Prices dropped about $30 USD on the D40 (buydig and amazon). Finally being phased out?

[tonay]

BTW - thanks Eric

[Rooz]

Finally being phased out?

the camera is not that old. a phase out at this stage is highly unlikely. particulalry given its massive sales success. its may very well be the best selling dslr nikon have ever made.

[fionndruinne]

What do you mean "finally being phased out"? The D40's only ten months old. Price drops like this are totally normal in the months following a camera's release, and I'm a-thinkin' Nikon would be a little unwise to phase out one of their most popular cameras, largely the reason why they're ahead of Canon at the moment.:rolleyes:

[tonay]

I'm just learning but wasn't the D40x a step up from the D40 which was in all reality a step back from the D50 which really was in no-man's (or woman's) land for it's time?

[tonay]

How quick do you think I need to jump on this price drop?

[tonay]

Is a 1 GB SD card worth 3 bucks?

[fionndruinne]

I'm just learning but wasn't the D40x a step up from the D40 which was in all reality a step back from the D50 which really was in no-man's (or woman's) land for it's time?

Not really, to all of the above. The D40x is just a version with higher MP, probably made to combat Canon's XTi. The D40's not a step back; it's a step forward; Nikon is moving toward in-lens focus motors, like Canon did some time ago. The D40 has a few less features than the D50, but has a much lower price tag as well; it'd designed for a specific audience. The D40x is designed both for an audience and as opposition to the competition. The D50 obviously had a good target audience as well, since they're as widespread as they are now.

The D40 is a realization of this concept: that an entry-level DSLR can truly be made entry-level, and when the price matches this, it sells very well.

I'd imagine that the D40 price reduction should remain; Amazon might fluctuate a little, but it's natural for the camera to drop in price.

As for the SD card, it depends on the card's speed, but if you're willing to use what's probably a slow card, then yes.

[tonay]

Thanks fionndruinne

Do you like yours?

[fionndruinne]

Indeed I do. It's my first DSLR; other than handling and using a few in the stores (and some use of a friend's XTi), I'm limited in my experience to the D40. But I'm happy as can be with it; I don't feel limited, and I like the fact that every facet of the camera seems well-polished, designed and executed.

[r3g]

Ive yet to meet someone who bought a D40 and regreated it.

[fionndruinne]

Thought this (http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D40x-Digital-Field-Guide/dp/0470171480/ref=sr_1_13/105-4931372-0355639?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189486582&sr=8-13) interesting when I stumbled across it - the author's comment on Amazon pretty much says it.

[tonay]

Sold

Any suggestion on an SD card?

[tonay]

D40 and 55-200VR lens should be here monday. Field guide book that was qouted is release on the 18th.

I'm giddy as a school girl.

[Rooz]

tonay, consider thom hogan's guides. they are generally regarded as the best and most comprehensive around.

http://bythom.com/d40guide.htm

[tonay]

Thanks Roz. I'll take that suggestion into consideration.

As far as hardwear - I'm looking to build as a normal non-pro. What would be next:
-flash?
-telephoto?
-Prime?
The main subject is my kids and whatever kids current age 4 months and 3 yrs do....Plus, per my wife "we better get a good shot for the Christmas card this year!"

Thanks gang

[r3g]

For kids I would go with a prime + a flash for some nice portraits. For this Id get the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM and the Speedlight SB-400.

[fionndruinne]

Well, the 55-200mm VR should fill your telephoto needs for awhile. As for future accessories, it all depends on what you like to shoot. Get out there with your new camera and have fun, and see which direction your work starts to point itself.

Probably wouldn't go wrong with an SB-400 for portraits, with some sort of diffuser. There's also the option of a wide-angle lens for landscapes. I'm assuming you got the 18-55mm kit lens as well; that's pretty wide, but Sigma offers a 10-20mm, now that's wide-angle. And there are low-light lenses... the list goes on.

[Rooz]

i agree with the other guys. i;d be looking at a flashgun first.