Olympus E510 and Sony A100

[costa]

Before anything else Hi all, since this is my first post around.

Let me start my postings around with a need-help-post.

I'm a newbie on this area and I want to take some good amateur photos and maybe progress myself in the future. For that I need an SLR camera.

After some investigation I found 2 models that I like the most:

Sony A-100 and Olympus E-510, both cameras awarded prizes on EISA. Sony last year and Olympus this year.

The 2 packages I found interesting are:

1) Sony A-100 packed with 2 lenses kit: DT 18 - 70 mm F3.5 - 5.6) and telephoto zoom lens (75 - 300 mm F4.5 - 5.6)

2) Olympus E-510 packed with 2 lenses kit: 14-42 mm 1:3.5-5.6: 25 cm and 40-150 mm 1:4.0-5.6: 90 cm

I'm seriously in doubt about which one should I go for.

The Olympus has a live preview feature that seems to be nice but I heard the viewfinder is smaller than in other cameras and is a 4:3 camera. I don't know how exactly any of these features can affect my decision. Don't know how useful the live preview is, and how bad the potential issue on the viewfinder can be.

Also Sony seems to struggle on ISO > 400.

I don't know why, but I'm pending more to the Sony, although the live preview makes me think twice. Also, Olympus is more recent model.

Can anyone give a hand here. Thanks.

[Rooz]

whats your budget ? what will you be shooting most ? what sort of features are you looking for in a camera etc etc etc what camera won an "award" is a bit of a gimick really and there are other dslr's to consider which i recommend you investigate prior to purchase.

lower price bracket:
pentax k100
nikon d40
canon xt

mid price bracket:
canon xti

higher price bracket:
nikon d80
pentax k10d
canon 30D

[costa]

well I have seen almost all of that and reduced my range to these 2 cameras.

Let's assume that the range is only those 2 cameras, and the features I pointed above.

In terms of use, as an absolute amateur and beginner, I will use it on every situation I can. So, there is not a particular use that I can pick. From the reviews I read, I think both cameras have similar features.

I'm only intrigued about the live preview and the usefulness of it as a plus on e510, and the viewfinder and 4:3 ratio to be a minus or not.

[coldrain]

Like rooz points out, EISA and other "awards" do not say anything about whether the cameras are better options than the competition or not.

About the noise.... yes, the A100 is quite noisy. But so is the E-510. The E-510 does allow you to filter the noise, but that is at the expense of a lot of detail, and results in very soft photos.

The E-510 does offer a live view, which is nice at times. But you do have to live with the smallest and most noisy sensor that has the generally perceived as less attractive 4:3 image format, all other DSLRs have a 3:2 format.
And the E-510 has the smallest darkest view finder, and a strange fly by wire manual focus.

If high ISO performance is important to you, look at the Canon XTi instead which offers sharp good JPEG and RAW. Another option can be the Nikon D80, which offers less attractive JPEG (softer, and with detail reducing noise reduction) but about as good quality in RAW as the XTi.
Canon will come out with very affordable 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS in november or so.
Nikon has a very affordabel 50-200 VR already. These may be interesting options for you when you do not have a big budget.

If you want just a cheap set with IS and do not mind the 4:3 and smaller noisy sensor, the E-510 of course can be interesting, its two kit lenses are of good quality... a lot better than the Sony lenses you list.
If you like the Sony anyway, even though it is quite noisy, then you should go for a Tamron 18-250mm lens instead. It will be more convenient, and offers better image quality than those two lenses you list.

[costa]

So, comparing with the ones I listed what do you think of this kit for Nikkon D80:

http://www.pixmania.com/pt/pt/354762/art/nikon/d80-objectiva-af-s-dx-18.html

Sorry, it's in portuguese.

[Rooz]

lol how quickly things change. only took 2 posts.

[coldrain]

Well, I am not impressed with the 18-135mm kit lens from Nikon much, so I would probably look at the 18-55 kit lens and the 55-200mm VR lens instead.
The D80 is a good camera, especially when you shoot in RAW.

[costa]

Is there any need for VR on 18-55?

If not maybe the package you're speaking about is something like this:
http://www.pixmania.com/pt/pt/354679/art/nikon/d80-objectiva-af-s-dx-zoo.html

plus

http://www.pixmania.com/pt/pt/536785/art/nikon/objectiva-af-s-dx-vr-zoom.html

It's a lot more expensive than Sony a100 and Oly e510. Do you think the package above is far better than sony and olympus?

[coldrain]

No there is no "need" for IS on a 18-55mm lens. The need increases with focal length. Of course, it can help in certain situations.

I would prefer the cheaper 18-55 over the 18-70, but that of course is a personal choice.

[DonSchap]

You can get a decent result with the SONY A100 married up to a TAMRON 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) lens. All the luxury of anti-shake, sensor cleaning and lightweight ... which makes for a dandy one-lens solution for 85% of most early photographic needs.

I love the ability to hand the camera to another person and in two or three minutes, they are shooting and getting decent to terrific results with a DSLR.

I began with a Canon and the two lens solution ... which really made me want to go right back to a one-lens solution, for both convenience and the fact that the 18-250 lens is actually quite a bit brighter than the 18-55, through that range.

I suggest you wander on down to a store that has both of these options for you to take a peek at ... and decide from there. The mojor advantage of the SONY is that you can use older Minolta AF lenses, which are quite affordable and plentiful. You can probably get an AF 50mm f/1.7 for about $30. Half the price of the much cheaper constucted Canon 50mm f/1.8

Food for thought. Good luck with your choice. :D

[costa]

Thank you all for the help.

I started with sony a100 and olympus e510 and changed the opinion along the way.

I discarded olympus because I don't feel comfortable with the small and dark viewfinder. I added the Nikon D80, because it seems a very good model. Although, unlike the sony, this model is not cheap, since to get some good lenses with anti-shake it would cost a lot more than sony. Sony has the anti-shake built-in which gives an advantage because any cheaper lens acquire the feature. By other side it cannot be previewed on viewfinder as is the case of lens anti-shake.

I still need to check a little more about both models, and try to decide soon.

[Riley]

1) Sony A-100 packed with 2 lenses kit: DT 18 - 70 mm F3.5 - 5.6) and telephoto zoom lens (75 - 300 mm F4.5 - 5.6)

2) Olympus E-510 packed with 2 lenses kit: 14-42 mm 1:3.5-5.6: 25 cm and 40-150 mm 1:4.0-5.6: 90 cm

I'm seriously in doubt about which one should I go for.

The Olympus has a live preview feature that seems to be nice but I heard the viewfinder is smaller than in other cameras and is a 4:3 camera. I don't know how exactly any of these features can affect my decision. Don't know how useful the live preview is, and how bad the potential issue on the viewfinder can be.

Also Sony seems to struggle on ISO > 400.

I don't know why, but I'm pending more to the Sony, although the live preview makes me think twice. Also, Olympus is more recent model.


Let me tackle the 510 as that is what i know most about, Don has a SONY A100 and he can adventist the best side of that camera. The 510 has the largest featureset of any other dSLR in this class with IS/LiveView/pixel mapping/sensor cleaning

The viewfinder of 510 is smaller, but thats like very fractional, it relates to the size of the mirror and the smaller sensor. Traditionally Olympus finders have been too dark and they suffer from this history, but this latest rendition is as bright as any other dSLR in this class.The 510's finder is wholly usable.

About noise, they all offer iso 800 performance that is quite good, but get kinda weak at iso 1600, but there are fractional differences. Over at PopPhoto they analyse noise so that it may be compared, and here are comparative results of those tests. I'm sorry but there hasnt been an A100 tested there for comparison, but it blows away the notion that 510 is noisy.

Noise (low numbers best score)
ISO-------100----200----400----800----1600
K10D-----1.15----1.15----1.4----1.7----1.95
E-510----1.18----1.1-----1.13---1.3----1.45
D40-------xx.x-----.93-----.98---1.0----1.0
XTi -------1.15----1.4----1.7-----2.2----2.35

In their review of the 510 here:

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/4380/camera-test-olympus-e-510.html

they say that they use RAW images for tests, and compare the results with jpeg. This may not mean much to you but it means that NF (the in camera noise filter) wont affect the results.

another review of the 510 for sport action at the US Open is here:

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/4554/field-test-olympus-evolt-e-510-at-the-us-open.html

It discusses the effectiveness of the AF system, manual focus and control set favourably.

Additionally the kit lenses are the best around, and are very good value in the twin lens kit. Image control in jpeg allows YOU to choose how soft or sharp you images are, thats what using a dSLR is all about. Within this review here:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/OlympusE510/

They discuss the E-510 and competitor cameras, and make image comparisons. In these 100% crops of larger images we see the 510 compared with the Canon XTi, and this is where the optical superiority of the lenses comes into play. Also compare image sharpness/softness and noise levels.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z179/realink_album/review/Image2.jpg

Finally, i would urge you to read reviews, and to go to a store and handle cameras. In such a place you can see what the finder is like for yourself, and make some conclusions as to the veracity of claims made here from others. Good luck

edit: just to add in a rush, SONY are believed to be making some new dSLR announcements in just a few days

[Rooz]

It's a lot more expensive than Sony a100 and Oly e510. Do you think the package above is far better than sony and olympus?

no, the d80 is not FAR better. all dslr's of today will give you excellent results. some do perform better than others in certain circumstances. the nikon costs more mainly becasue of build quality and features. the olympus though has similar build quality and more features.

you came into this thread quite narrow minded about your choices. i gave you some starting points above regarding the price ranges, all of those dslr's will perform well in the right hands and the price differences are really down to features and specs mainly. i will leave it to others to argue about what has better iso performance and what doesn't. but until you provide some more detail about your needs and budget then it is very difficult for anyone to try and give you any meaningful help about the choice.

the general rule here though is that if anti-shake is a big issue for you and you don;t have a big budget, i think the oly would be your best choice, if anything just becasue it has far better kit lens' than the sony package. if you buy the nikon or canon kits, expect to pay more for IS lens'. however, in saying that the k10d also has anti shake built into the body and is also an excellent camera...albeit more expensive.

like i said though, if you can give a better indication of your needs and especially your budget, it will be much easier to help.

of all the cameras listed above my personal prefernce is for the d80, (which is why i bought one), and the 30D. the attraction of the 30d at the moment is that due to the release of the 40d you may be able to pick up a 30d for an excellent price. imho i don;t think the sony performs at the same level as the others and would only consider it if i had a collection of KM lens' that i wanted to use. thats just my opinion which i'm sure many will disagree with.

[costa]

Thanks Rooz for the comments.

Yes, I have a lot of doubts about all this. In fact I understand that in my hands any of that will perform more than well, in terms of the capabilities being much more than mine.

In any way this is a lot of money to be spent so I'm trying to at least spend on what I think is best. I started with Sony A-100 and Olympus E-510, and at the middle of the discussion I added the Nikon D80. In fact I thought about that model before, just knew that it would represent an higher investment.

After all reading I made and after touching the cameras in the store, I feel the Nikon will be the one that will satisfy me the most, because of the comfort it provides. At the same time, and more importantly, it seems to me that it is of better quality than Sony.

So, after all this I think I will stick with the D80 model. Just in doubt about the lenses kit to have some quality, and to cover a good range.

The main package I see cames with AF-S Nikkor 18-70 lens. I thought on adding to the package a Nikkor AF-S 55-200 VR f4/5.6G. Other prospects is a Tamron AF 18-200mm F/3,5-6,3 XR Di II LD Asferic [IF] MACRO (although it seems to not have VR).

I will shout mainly on day but want also to take some night photos. Landscapes and sports motion is something that interests me too. Just want to know if the package I posted above is fair enough for this or if anyone advice any other lens kit, of course for roughly the same money.

[fionndruinne]

If you want to shoot sports or low-light, strike that Sony off you list, unless you're ready to buy large-aperture (necessarily bigger and heavier) lenses right away, or deal with noisy photos. Even ISO 400 on the Sony looks kind of bad; I can use ISO 400 on my Nikon without even pausing to think about it, and 800 and 1600, while losing a little detail, are still much higher quality and usable, especially with a little sharpening and noise reduction.

But holy cow, when I look at that Olympus vs. Canon graph, those are some sweet Olympus optics. I would be inclined to go with the E-510, it has a lot going for it, and much better noise levels than the Sony - and the two-lens package is simply put a killer deal. I wish my Nikkor 18-55mm was that sharp out of camera.

A D80 will offer you a very good, comfortable, easy-to-use, excellently designed camera, and Nikon optics tend to be cheaper than Olympus 4/3 lenses; in the long run if you want a good collection, the D80 will pay off, but if you want good bang for the buck right here and now, the E-510 is a good choice, methinks.

[costa]

Very well, thanks. And what do you think about the lens I listed on the above message, for Nikon D80?

[fionndruinne]

The 55-200mm VR Nikkor is a great lens for the price. I wouldn't buy the Tamron 18-200mm, though; the Nikkor 18-200mm VR, while pricey, seems to be far and away the best of the 18-200 bunch.

[costa]

So, I would be well served with the Af-S 18-70 + AF-S 50-200 VR, right?

Any problem with the 18-70 not being VR?

[DonSchap]

I have tried to explain, time and again, that the 18-70 is not as bright a lens (in the same focal range) as the 18-200(250). It darkens up, pretty quick as you zoom in ... Max aperture is at its minimum at around 38mm. The best you can get is f/5.6 from 38mm-70mm.

With the 18-200(250), you are not at f/5.6 until the lens gets to 70mm! You are at f/4 at 38mm .. not a full stop darker.

28330

The 18-70 is just a dark lens ... why bother? You can do better, here. I suggest you go long ... or stay at home. :cool:

The 18-200 is a great walk around lens ... it covers nearly 85% of most photographic situations. That's a superior idea, in my book.

[fionndruinne]

Or you might spend some more for one of Sigma's offerings, like the 18-50mm f/2.8 macro, 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 macro, or 50-150mm f/2.8 (larger and heavier, but a sweet piece overall by the look of it).

If you're willing to consider a $475 kit lens, you might really like the 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5. Even the 4.5 at max zoom is pretty good. The 18-50mm with constant f/2.8 is even better though.

[Rooz]

The main package I see cames with AF-S Nikkor 18-70 lens. I thought on adding to the package a Nikkor AF-S 55-200 VR f4/5.6G. Other prospects is a Tamron AF 18-200mm F/3,5-6,3 XR Di II LD Asferic [IF] MACRO (although it seems to not have VR).

I will shout mainly on day but want also to take some night photos. Landscapes and sports motion is something that interests me too. Just want to know if the package I posted above is fair enough for this or if anyone advice any other lens kit, of course for roughly the same money.

for the d80, here are some options in round numbers...

d80 w/ sigma 18-50mm f2.8 + 55-200VR = $1550
this is what i would consider the best option. very sharp 18-50mm lens that has a wide f2.8 aperture throughout its range making it excellent for lower light photos. it also has a macro feature which enables you to focus very close to your subject. VR at the tele end where you need it.

d80 w/18-55mm kit + 55-200VR = $1200.
cheapest option that gives you good kit lens quality and VR at the tele end where you need it.

d80 w/ sigma 17-70mm + 55-200VR = $1500
nice range with this sigma lens that also has the macro feature. not as good optically as the sigma 18-50mm but many on the forum, (both canon and nikon users), have this lens and are very happy with it. VR at the tele end where you need it.

d80 w/ tamron 18-250mm = $1375
good budget option. the 18-250mm is very flexible with decent optical quality considering its range. no VR at any length though which will make long range shooting more difficult.

d80 w/ nikkor 18-200VR = $1625
most expensive option that has the flexibility and convenience of the "all in one" tamron lens but has VR throughout the entire range. optically its also very good and has very nice build quality.

couple of things you need to be aware of before taking a plunge...

the telephoto lens' listed above are not great for taking low light sports shots very well. for that you need much faster apertures. this is the case regarldess of what brand system you end up choosing. just want to make sure your expectations are realistic. in saying that, there are alot of people that have the 55-200VR now in the nikon forums and their daytime sports shots are astonishing when you consider how cheap this lens is.

are these packages better for you than the oly pack or a similar sort of canon xti package, pentax k10d package or even the same lens packages with a d40 ? only you can decide that and the only way to do that is to handle them in person. glad to see you have done this becasue the feel of these cameras in your hands is probably the most important thing of all. you need to be comfortable with what you're shooting with.

good luck with your decision. :)

[costa]

Thank you all for the help and a special thanks to you Rooz for your last comments that were really helpful to fine tune my decision.

In fact I have decided to go with a Nikon D80. I understand that maybe any other choice would be great for me, but I thought that this cameras was the one I feel more comfortable with and with great possibilities of expanding in terms of lenses in the future if I want. It seems a good camera to preserve for a few years, more than maybe the Sony.

In terms of lenses, well, what a hell, but I end up going for an expensive package of Nikon 18-200 VR lenses. I know that these are very good all-in-one lenses, and have the comfort for me as a beginner of trying very different situations without going with a lot of different lenses. This is a good starting point I think. In the future, after trying it a lot I may know well what kind of specific lens I need, and then buy some other lenses.

The only lens I thought to add to the package maybe in a few weeks is the Nikkon 50mm F/1.8D. This is a lens with a better aperture, that I thought would be great for some portrait, and for low light situations. At the same time because of the zoom lack, it is good to have a better perspective of what we are doing.

Maybe anyone wants to add anything to this. Again thank you for your patience.

[DonSchap]

If you are not in any monster-hurry ... I'd wait just a few more weeks. This is not the right time for a hasty decision. March 2007, maybe ... September 2007 ... not so much. Do a little more comparison over the next month ... then plunk down the coin.

Just a suggestion ... from the Peanut Gallery. ;)

[Rooz]

In terms of lenses, well, what a hell, but I end up going for an expensive package of Nikon 18-200 VR lenses. I know that these are very good all-in-one lenses, and have the comfort for me as a beginner of trying very different situations without going with a lot of different lenses.

having owned the 18-200VR myself, i can speak about it comfortabley. i loved that lens and really miss it sometimes. i only sold it becasue i needed the 70-200VR and used the 18-200 to partially fund it.

it is definately the most convenient lens, but it is not a match optically for the sigma 18-50mm f2.8 lens. if the convenience of an "all in one" package is a high priority to you then you made the right choice. if optical performance is more important then i would suggest the other sigma package. the 50mm f1.8 is a brilliant little lens. cheap, light, sharp, great for lower light and portraits. it's my most used lens by a long way.