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Rhys
07-03-2004, 01:08 PM
Well, I've pretty much decided that the 5700 is better than Canon's S1. Not sure about the Pro 1 but it's a bit out of my price bracket. For the price of a Pro 1, I could buy a D70 and use my existing MF Nikon lenses.

I'm 50/50 over going for an all-in-one or for a DSLR on the basis that using SLRs, I found I was using mostly 28 - 300mm or most often 35 - 135 ranges. I'm very pleased not to have to carry such heavy camera equipment around as my Nikon FMs etc.

So, because I want to stick with decent quality cameras, it looks like Nikon (which I've always used) is better than Canon by a mile. I was mildly tempted by the 8700 but for the fact they're using such marketing words that make me suspicious that it's not a good one.

Has anybody any experience of the 5700, of it's plusses, minuses etc?

jamison55
07-04-2004, 09:34 PM
So, because I want to stick with decent quality cameras, it looks like Nikon (which I've always used) is better than Canon by a mile.

As a die-hard Canon fan I'd have to disagree. I recently chose a DReb over a D70. In the side-by-side online comparisons the D70 was better in all areas except image quality! For the price of the D70 kit I got the DReb with 3 lenses. Oh yeah, and ISO 100.

Oh well, back on topic...How about Olympus. I own an Oly 5050, and love it. You can't beat the glass or the features in Oly digicams, and the 5050 has an amazing f1.8 lens. They are pretty cheap refurb'd on EBay...

Garret
07-05-2004, 04:16 PM
The only complaint I have is the that nikon 5700 has a small lCD display and very short battery life. Focusing looks also slow since I have the Nikon 5200.

Image quality is great and ergonomics is +++. The best prosumer camera to hold.

But if I were you, I would buy a D70 because of it's very fast focusing ( good for action photo's) and excellent image quality


ps: maybe my english is not so great, but I hope you know what I mean.

Crotchrocket
07-05-2004, 11:31 PM
Actually, I have been doing pretty much non-stop research for the past 3 days on these camera's, all 10x opticals. Canon S1 IS is coming out the best.
Camera's: Kodak DX6490, Nikon 5700, Canon S1 IS, and Minolta Dimage Z2.

I can honeslty say I found the most Negative comments about the Nikon 5700. The users that bought it said the camera was worthless for shooting any type of action photos. They said the AF system is so slow, and that unless the subject was in perfect light, and standing still, the AF would have problems focusing properly. And, many said the Menu's are not easy to use and you need to carry the instruction book around with you. I almost bought this camera until I did some research on it, because
A) One of the best looking camera's IMHO
B) 5mp with 10x optical zoom and a swivel screen LCD (great for candids).
But, due to ALOT of people saying it focused WAY too slow, I steered clear.

So, the following 3 camera's were next to look at. I am not looking at price, since I can get all of these camera's for right around $350 brand new.
I compared the picture quality, and reviews done by the same website. The Canon may only be 3.2mp, but look at it's quality with a really good comparison of the 4mp camera's and sometimes the Canon still looks the best (doesn't blur some of the leaves, etc, and small details show clearer). The Kodak and Minolta both had a little better color, but really look hard and I think you will find the S1 IS is the most impressive at clarity. Color can be added with any good photo editing program, where a clear picture cannot.
Check out this site to really compare picture to picture (same exact photos taken by all the camera's they review, makes comparing a whole lot easier).
http://www.imaging-resource.com
Good luck!! The more research I do on the last 3 camera's, the more people I find have better things to say about the Canon. And, it's the only one that has a swivel LCD and Image Stabilization, which they say is definitely worth it.

Rhys
07-06-2004, 10:10 AM
I must disagree about the Canon S1. I picked it and and looked at it the shop. I did the same with the Nikon 5700. The Canon just came over as a piece of plastic junk which the average user would be very lucky with, if it lasted as long as tha guarantee period. The battery door hinge was a worthless piece of trash - steel pins shoved into some dubious-looking lumps of plastic that looked in imminant danger of falling off. There were other issues too. The plastic all looked to be very brittle.

I'd honestly advise that the build quality of the 5700 was a lot better. If I had to choose between the S1 and the 5700 then I'd go for the 5700 every time. But I looked at the price of the 5700 and it's more than half the price of the D70, which makes the D70 seem a better bargain.

IMO, the S1, 5700 and 8700 and just catch-penny confidence tricks designed to catch the unwary who'll then find them insufficient and will have to buy the D70 they should have bought in the first place.

D70FAN
07-06-2004, 08:54 PM
Rhys? Does that mean you finally sprung for the D70?

On the other hand, the Canon S1 IS, is what it is; a consumer all-in-one with a long lens, IS, and a good, handy, movie mode for around $500. I can't even buy an equivelent VR lens, for the D70, at twice that price. Same with the FZ-10 from Panasonic. Keep in mind that most people buying these $500 UZ cameras are streching their budget that extra notch for a little better camera.

So they may not be dSLR's but they are fun cameras for half the price. Eventually if they like photography maybe a dSLR will be the way to go. Look at John. Great 2MP photos and he's having a blast! Shot about every flying thing in the Bay Area.

I mean, some of us had to sign on to a life of endentured servitude, with our spouse, to allow the purchase of a D70 (well maybe not quite that bad...but close).

Bottom line...Was it worth it?

Oh Yeah!

Crotchrocket
07-07-2004, 12:27 AM
IMO, the S1, 5700 and 8700 and just catch-penny confidence tricks designed to catch the unwary who'll then find them insufficient and will have to buy the D70 they should have bought in the first place.

Lol. Boy that statement is just, pure, dumb. Ya, like looks are everything. You go off of looks only, saying Canon is piece of crap because of looks.
I read 10+ reviews, and they had much better things to say about the S1 than the 5700. And, 5700 can't do 640x480 movies at 30fps :rolleyes:
And, menu's are not nearly as friendly, nor easy to use. And no image stabilization :rolleyes: And Nikon is 8x Opt, Canon 10X with IS. I agree about 1 thing. Nikon looks better, and maybe built better, but looks aren't everything.

I bought my Canon S1 IS last night for $339 brand new. You can stick your D70 wherever you want, but you won't find anything around that price for what the Canon offers. Some people just don't have $$ to blow like you.....
D70 is not in my price range. Before you go slamming someone, maybe you should first think before you speak....

Rhys
07-07-2004, 02:38 PM
Lol. Boy that statement is just, pure, dumb. Ya, like looks are everything. You go off of looks only, saying Canon is piece of crap because of looks.
I read 10+ reviews, and they had much better things to say about the S1 than the 5700. And, 5700 can't do 640x480 movies at 30fps :rolleyes:
And, menu's are not nearly as friendly, nor easy to use. And no image stabilization :rolleyes: And Nikon is 8x Opt, Canon 10X with IS. I agree about 1 thing. Nikon looks better, and maybe built better, but looks aren't everything.

I bought my Canon S1 IS last night for $339 brand new. You can stick your D70 wherever you want, but you won't find anything around that price for what the Canon offers. Some people just don't have $$ to blow like you.....
D70 is not in my price range. Before you go slamming someone, maybe you should first think before you speak....

1. My last post did not "slam" anybody. It merely pointed out the ghastly flaws in the Canon S1 and Nikon 5700. And also that they do not seem worthy of the money they cost when for not much extra one can buy a much better camera.

2. Yes. The Canon does to 30fps video but as Jeff and others have said: cameras are for photos and camcorders are for moving images. Digital cameras still haven't reached the quality of a camcorder yet.

3. In terms of cost. I can afford a Canon S1 or a Nikon 5700. I can't afford a D70 so I'm saving my hard-earned cash until I can afford to buy either a D70 or a Fuji S2.

D70FAN
07-07-2004, 03:45 PM
Uh...Nah. I've gotta see where this goes... :rolleyes:

Rhys
07-08-2004, 10:53 AM
Well, if people look at Jeff's review of the Nikon 5200 which has quite a reasonable 30fps VGA video that lasts 14 seconds, it will be apparent that the 23.7mb of the video would immediately preclude the worthwhile use of digital cameras for video.

On the basis that 1 second of the 23.7mb would be around 1.7mb and that a reasonable video length should not be shorter than say 5 minutes, that would mean storage capacities in the order of 510mb would be needed to cope with just 5 minutes of video.

Currently the largest Secure Digital card is 512mb or 5 mins of VGA video. The largest Compact Flash card (not microdrive) commonly available is 2gb or 20 minutes of video.

Assuming that Secure Digital reaches its maximum possible size of 8gb, it reaches a reasonable 80 minutes of video. But the quality, even at VGA is not quite as good as that of a cheap camcorder (which costs less than a 512mb memory card).

Thus, my argument that video on the Canon S1 being a gimmick (or any digital camera) still stands.

I remain to be convinced about the worth of image stabiliation adding to a photographer's skill and judgement.

At the end of the day, photography is about getting the best you can from what you have. If your equipment lets you down or restricts you then it's time to change. That's why my money's on a dSLR as opposed to an all-in one. The S1 is very tempting and seems to offer so much yet it's all done with smoke and mirrors, in my opinion. The build quality would worry me tremendously, should I ever purchase one. The 5700 seems a lot better in build-quality and the battery though a fudge between proprietry and commonly-available is passable.

Pricewise, why pay 70% of the cost of the camera you really want (the D70) and buy a fudgebucket when for only a few weeks more saving, you can get the better camera?

Rhys

Crotchrocket
07-10-2004, 12:14 AM
Oh no, I am not trying to argue replacing a videocamera with a digital camera by no-means. I have a $1K+ digital camera, that can take Megapixel photos. But, ever see a guy carrying a camera and a videcamera?
A)Looks like a geek, lol.
B)Your carrying alot of luggage, and alot of weight if walking long distances.

It's just nice to have that added feature. And Rhes, you are right about not needing image stabilization. It doesn't help at all, if you have a tripod. But, I don't carry a tripod, so yes, it does mean alot to me. It helps the pictures and the videos. I saw a video clip from the S1 IS, where he recorded like 15 sec w/o is, then hit i.s. button and it was a HUGE difference. And, the more zoomed, the more i.s. helps. Especially with a 10x optical zoom.

jamison55
07-10-2004, 05:17 AM
The Nikon owners have chimed in, now let a Canon owner. My frist "real" digicam was a "cheap piece of plastic" A40. I carried that camera all over North America for two years taking quality pics along the way. I can tell you, it was built like a tank, and no piece of it ever broke off! I now own a DRebel, another "cheap piece of plastic". I was torn between it and the D70, but went with the DReb because it produced better pictures in every comparison I saw. All the reviewers rated the D70 higher in evident build quility and features, but the DReb had it where it counts...it takes better, less noisy, no moire, pictures. I say "evident" build quality, because at review time how can they really tell how well a camera is built...do they do a drop test? In all of the years I have been reading and contributing to digicam forums, I have never read about a camera breaking because it was plastic. Jeff always mentions flimsy plastic battery door covers. I've never heard of one breaking off. If the plastic construction of my DReb saved me $300 over the comparable Nikon, that's $300 extra to sink into glass. Besides, no offense, but I've found Nikon owners to be kind of snobbish about their cameras...like they gotta justify something... Kinda turns me off to Nikon.

Rhys
07-10-2004, 07:51 AM
The Nikon owners have chimed in, now let a Canon owner. My frist "real" digicam was a "cheap piece of plastic" A40. I carried that camera all over North America for two years taking quality pics along the way. I can tell you, it was built like a tank, and no piece of it ever broke off! I now own a DRebel, another "cheap piece of plastic". I was torn between it and the D70, but went with the DReb because it produced better pictures in every comparison I saw. All the reviewers rated the D70 higher in evident build quility and features, but the DReb had it where it counts...it takes better, less noisy, no moire, pictures. I say "evident" build quality, because at review time how can they really tell how well a camera is built...do they do a drop test? In all of the years I have been reading and contributing to digicam forums, I have never read about a camera breaking because it was plastic. Jeff always mentions flimsy plastic battery door covers. I've never heard of one breaking off. If the plastic construction of my DReb saved me $300 over the comparable Nikon, that's $300 extra to sink into glass. Besides, no offense, but I've found Nikon owners to be kind of snobbish about their cameras...like they gotta justify something... Kinda turns me off to Nikon.

I see what Jeff means about flimsy battery doors. The one on the S1 looked very vulnerable and the plastic did look very brittle. I gather the S1 has a problem in that the image freezes after exposure, making tracking difficult.

I believe the 5700 works in a different way.


And no. I'm not snobby about my Nikons. I have tried Cosina, Pentax, Canon, Minolta, Zenith and Olympus. I used to use Cosina, Pentax and Zenith SLRs. Then I went over to using Nikon SLRs and found the difference was amazing. The Nikons just felt right and everything was where I wanted it.

Then, when digital came out, I had Olympus at first because somebody sold me on their superior quality. Personally, I thought the build-quality was poor. I moved into Nikon digitals and the difference was amazing again. better build and image quality.

Now this is from personal experience, not snobbishness.

al macdiarmid
07-10-2004, 09:41 AM
The flimsy plastic door on my Nikon 950 did break. It is now held on with duct tape until Nikon issues a recall. Good advertising for them! "Why do you have duct tape on your camera?" "Because it is a cheap POS!" This is about the time the batteries spill out onto the dirt. Al

Rhys
07-10-2004, 12:41 PM
The flimsy plastic door on my Nikon 950 did break. It is now held on with duct tape until Nikon issues a recall. Good advertising for them! "Why do you have duct tape on your camera?" "Because it is a cheap POS!" This is about the time the batteries spill out onto the dirt. Al

This is the problem with battery compartments designed to hold AA batteries.
There are 4 powerful springs pressing 4 batteries evenly accross the whole door. The hinges normally run down one side or are in the middle of one side and the latch is usually a single point on the other side of the door. This is an inherently infereor design and hence why I doubt that the S1 will outlast the warranty.

The 5700/8700 has the same door design as on my 995 and holds back a single battery supported by a single spring. This is inherently a much better design. The pressure is in a single place and the door is better able to cope with it. Also, there's 1/4 of the pressure involved.

At the moment I'm swinging back toward the 5700 on the basis that a 35 - 280 zoom is sufficient for most of the things I did with 35mm. In fact, my range of lenses went from 28mm to 300mm with those I used most being 35mm - 135mm. The oddly-sighted on/off switch problem can be negated by simply removing the battery when the camera's put in a bag (which is what I do anyway).

I love SLRs etc but I remember what it was like trotting around, carrying a camera bag with 32lbs of kit in it! I'm all for lightweight all-in-one's. I'd love the Canon S1 if only Canon would eat some humble pie and hire some Nikon engineers to teach them how to build a camera. The build quality of that is, in my opinion, quite pathetic.

Thinking about duct tape - this might have an advantage. Who'd steal something held together with duct tape?

Jake Conner
07-11-2004, 12:10 AM
Rhys:

Yes, I'm sure the difference was amazing the first time you switched (though you might have been even more impressed with a Koni T4 or an Oly OM-2S). Overall, though, Nikon did have an edge back then. Today, they don't. The second time you switched, you went from (if I remember correctly) a 1.3MP D-Line Olympus to a top of the prosumer line, 3MP 995. You would have been equally if not more blown away by the top of any major camera maker's prosumer line. Nikon (and Leica, and Hassy) users in general (there are exceptions) do seem to have an air of needing to justify their choice of equiptment by calling everything else junk. Yes, Rhys, that includes you. No one thinks your equiptment is junk - it's not bad, and for some things it might even be the best. But none of the three above companies is head and shoulders above the competition, as each was at different times in the past.

Jake

Rhys
07-11-2004, 09:06 AM
Rhys:

Yes, I'm sure the difference was amazing the first time you switched (though you might have been even more impressed with a Koni T4 or an Oly OM-2S). Overall, though, Nikon did have an edge back then. Today, they don't. The second time you switched, you went from (if I remember correctly) a 1.3MP D-Line Olympus to a top of the prosumer line, 3MP 995. You would have been equally if not more blown away by the top of any major camera maker's prosumer line. Nikon (and Leica, and Hassy) users in general (there are exceptions) do seem to have an air of needing to justify their choice of equiptment by calling everything else junk. Yes, Rhys, that includes you. No one thinks your equiptment is junk - it's not bad, and for some things it might even be the best. But none of the three above companies is head and shoulders above the competition, as each was at different times in the past.

Jake

Why does everybody think I call other manufacturers junk? I compare the Canon S1 to something that falls out of a cereal packet because I think Canon definitely goofed with the construction and materials. What's inside the box is quite good (very good).

I went from an Olympus C820L, 1.3mp camera to a C200 Zoom 2mp camera and then to a Nikon 885 (which was defective and had to go back) to a Nikon 995 and then added my 3100.

I find the 3100 falls between the Olympus C200Zoom and the Nikon 995 in terms of sharpness but it's not unacceptible.

Having considered the options (including the Canon S1 - that battery door gives me the shivers), it seems to me that although a Nikon D70 looks like a great camera, the bigger problem is that I don't believe it would work all that well with my existing MF Nikon and Tamron lenses. That would mean I'd need to buy yet more lenses to go with the D70. Thus, I think the 5700 looks very attractive. I'm also considering my advancing age and increasing decrepitude and the fact I no longer want to cart around 32lbs of lenses in a bag suspended from one shoulder, while I leap over styles and fences etc. I'm valuing portability more and feel 35-280 seems a good range for 99.9% of what I normally used to do. My 35mm lenses went from 28 to 300mm with my normal carry-about range being 28, 50, 85, 135 with the occasional use of tubes or a doubler. It seems to me, unless I'm wrong, that the 5700 does all that in one package. Sure, I'd like the S1 but in a decent body. As I already use ENEL1 batteries, there's an incentive to have something the same. Quite honestly, I like the enel1 and I like AA too. I am not keen on the fact the S1 takes so many AA batteries though.

Jake Conner
07-11-2004, 12:39 PM
Hey Rhys, what about the FZ10?

Rhys
07-11-2004, 02:33 PM
Hey Rhys, what about the FZ10?

Well, I seem to be between a rock and a hard place. Aside from being a die-hard Nikon user, I have a stack of CF cards.

I'd definitely consider the FZ10 and even buy it since it's so inexpensive if I didn't already have a shed load of 128mb CF cards. I feel committed to using CF and since the battery for the 5700 is the same as my 995 battery, I have compatibility.

I do feel that a switch to SD might need to be made in the future yet I don't feel the need to do it just yet. I feel that my existing Coolpix 995 and 3100 will complement the 5700 quite well. I know I called it a fudgebucket and it is a fudgebucket. It just happens to be pretty well what the doctor ordered.

bka314
07-13-2004, 12:19 AM
I own an old (almost 4 year now) Canon A20 - even more "plastic" than the S1.
Some facts: the door is still in its place (after being opened hundreds of times). Once I have dropped the camera from around 1m, it fell on stone - the plastic did not deform, nor did the parts inside for the camera still works perfectly without any trouble.
So I did not afraid to buy the S1.

About the IS: it depends on the point of view. 1st category: some people like to carry their cameras in their pocket, OK. 2nd category: some people like the cameras that fit easily in their backpack / can hang on their necks.
3rd category: camera, lens, tripod, external flash, huge camera bag.

The S1 (and the IS) is for those who belong to the second category. So don't mix this up with speaking 'bout the tripod.

Bye,
Kris

Rhys
07-15-2004, 02:57 PM
I own an old (almost 4 year now) Canon A20 - even more "plastic" than the S1.
Some facts: the door is still in its place (after being opened hundreds of times). Once I have dropped the camera from around 1m, it fell on stone - the plastic did not deform, nor did the parts inside for the camera still works perfectly without any trouble.
So I did not afraid to buy the S1.

About the IS: it depends on the point of view. 1st category: some people like to carry their cameras in their pocket, OK. 2nd category: some people like the cameras that fit easily in their backpack / can hang on their necks.
3rd category: camera, lens, tripod, external flash, huge camera bag.

The S1 (and the IS) is for those who belong to the second category. So don't mix this up with speaking 'bout the tripod.

Bye,
Kris

Well, I came to the conclusion that I like both the S1 and the Fuji S602. It's the video mode that swung the deal. My girlfriend from SC will be over here and we want to do little videos that we can send to all our friends. Thus, if she can get the S1 before she comes then I'll have the S1 - otherwise, I'll get the S602.

Dan5700
09-06-2004, 06:12 AM
Hello, I am new to this forum, and came across it by accident looking for galleries of peoples photos.

Most odd that I have just read this because I was recently looking at these very same cameras. Had it narrowed down to the Nikon Coolpix 5700, the Canon S1 IS, and was thinking about the D70. Did look at the 8700 but I have no need for the extra 3MP and couldn't justify the extra cost because of this. In the end, it was the finance and portability that drew me away from the D70 (though I would love an SLR, the maintainence seems higher on SLRs and having separate lenses etc is just a bit more than I want from a camera at the moment).

So it was between the 5700 and the S1. The S1 had better movie mode (but that's not what I wanted it for). It had 10x optical zoom instead of 8x (but i rarely use all the zoom). It's image stabilizer is absolutely phenomenal, but in the end, with playing with them both the things that swung it for me were:

- Very solid build quality
- Lens (image) quality
- I'm a sucker for nikon

So I am now the owner of the 5700 and I love it. Taken some great pics. Need to get a mini tripod really, but I am glad that I chose it.

Dan

OCJohn
09-06-2004, 05:46 PM
What about the alleged focusing problems I read in the reviews of the Nikon 5700? Have they been a problem for anyone? I'm considering that camera but the focusing issue concerns me (I love the feel of it and the A1/A2 in my hand).

D70FAN
09-06-2004, 07:52 PM
What about the alleged focusing problems I read in the reviews of the Nikon 5700? Have they been a problem for anyone? I'm considering that camera but the focusing issue concerns me (I love the feel of it and the A1/A2 in my hand).

Just wait a few weeks...

...Patience may pay off.

lionelr
02-25-2006, 08:21 PM
I have recently upgraded my computer, and appear to have lost my Nikon 5700 CD. The Nikon website only provides s/w to US purchasers, and my local retailer says the model is no longer current and he doesn't have the s/w any more. Can anybody send me a copy? It is quite large (can't remember how many megs) so you'll need to have broadband access.
The s/w I need is the download program, and preferable the display programs as well.
Thanks in Advance, Lionel

Robert Besen
02-27-2006, 07:42 PM
I have a zip file of Nikon View 6.25. It's 35 Megabytes. Can your email server reveive a file that large or do you have another idea?