A570is disappointment, need advice

[tkjdnow]

Just bought the camera and used the AUTO setting for NYC vacation pics: street scenes, buildings, park, museum artworks w/o flash, and a few portraits.
Pictures are Large, superfine 2304x3072 pixels.
Most are ISO 80 to 200, f stop 2.6 to 4.), speed 1/125 to 250.

Out of 400 photos, there are only 2 or 3 that I think are good. Friends with the a560 and 550 got great photos of the same subjects on the same trip.

The only software I use is Picasa to crop and enlarge. One issue is that when I enlarge the picture 100% on the computer (the slider goes to 400%), there is "noise" and the pictures look awful.

For example, I took AUTO setting indoor, no flash, white-wall art gallery shots with the Canon: 1/20s, f/2.6, ISO200, focal length 6mm, matrix metering. The exposure is ok, but it looks soft, even using the sharpen effect in Picasa, and the enlargement just pixelates.

A similar AUTO setting pic using a 3 year old Kodak CX7430 4 mp camera, (2304x1728 pixil photos): 1/15s, f/2.7, focal length 6mm, no ISO data given, matrix metering. It is a "clearer" picture, and enlarges better.

Is there a problem with this particular camera or lens? Or is this just the way this camera model functions? I hate to ship the camera off for exchange and take the chance that the replacement will be the same or worse.

[griptape]

It's a compact camera with a small sensor. Noise in available light without flash is part of life with that type of camera (unless it's Fuji). But judging by 100% crops just isn't fair. Your friends' 550 and 560 100% crops probably look exactly the same as your 100% crops. The only one who is going to notice the noise in normal print sizes is you. Use the zoom and/or step closer to what you're taking a picture of, and don't rely on cropping. The camera isn't defective, it's just how it is.

[XOO]

...
Pictures are Large, superfine 2304x3072 pixels.
...
Most are ISO 80 to 200, f stop 2.6 to 4.), speed 1/125 to 250.

The only software I use is Picasa to crop and enlarge. One issue is that when I enlarge the picture 100% on the computer (the slider goes to 400%), there is "noise" and the pictures look awful.

For example, I took AUTO setting indoor, no flash, white-wall art gallery shots with the Canon: 1/20s, f/2.6, ISO200, focal length 6mm, matrix metering. The exposure is ok, but it looks soft, even using the sharpen effect in Picasa, and the enlargement just pixelates.
...
Is there a problem with this particular camera or lens? Or is this just the way this camera model functions? I hate to ship the camera off for exchange and take the chance that the replacement will be the same or worse.
I'm a little at a loss as to what you are doing with the crops. Are you enlarging them to the original frame size of 2304x3072 pixels? If so, no wonder you are seeing pixelation. I wouldn't think you'd want to enlarge a crop - at least not by much...

[tkjdnow]

I bought the 7mp camera thinking that I could take better photos than the 4 mp, and then crop to create a better composition.

With my old Kodak, I could crop, then enlarge to 100-150% using Picasa, or the little magnifying glass in the windows program, and have a photo of say, just one one person viewing a painting in a picture which was originally a wing of a museum with lots of folks and several paintings. The crop would be able to be viewed the same size on the computer screen as the original picture with little loss of quality (noise?)

Picasa and HP and Kodak software lets you click on the magnifying glass icon to better see details, and the Canon pictures pixilate when you do that. So that is a problem, I think.

I also find that the Canon pictures taken on AUTO ( and, no, I do not yet know how to use the manual features) are soft and less clear than the Kodak.

Those 560 and 550 photos I referenced look great just as they are uploaded from the camera, compared to my own untouched uploaded pics. Mine look like they are taken through a glass window.

So is it the 570 in general, or this particular camera?

Thank you for responding, there is NO ONE I can talk to in person, since I bought the camera on line.

[downtrodden]

Unfortunately, that "soft" feel you get from the pictures is something canon is known for. Some people like it and some people don't. I have the sharpness setting turned to max in my S3 and S5 cameras.

Now, as for the noise, Noise will be visible in ANY picture viewed at 100% at least any picture from a point and shoot. That's the nature of the beast. More megapixels do not equate to better quality image. More megapixels only equate to how large said image is. Now as for why the 570 displays more noise at 100% than the 550- this could be because the older camera applies more in camera noise removal- which you lose really fine details. The newer camera may be prgrammed to leave the noise removal to you, as like i said, lots of noise removal can kill details. Those lost details would've been visible in a print, but the noise most likely would not be.

The only way to really tell if your camera is actually producing more noise than it should, would be to compare it to shots from another 570. You can search for photos by camera type on Flickr and see if other people's photos have grain in them or not.

Hope that helps.

Also, if you post samples, someone may be able to give you a more accurate answer.

~Cory

[downtrodden]

PS. I don't think digital photos were meant to be viewed at 100%and nor should cropping be used as a primary form of composing a photograph, as the more you crop a photo, the smaller sizes you can print said photo. That noise will not translate to grain in an image- depending on the crop. from a 6 MP camera, i've done crops where half the image was removed and still managed to get an 8X10 print that wows everyone who sees it. There's no noise visible. But viewing it at 100% on the screen, noise jumps out at ya.

[griptape]

I bought the 7mp camera thinking that I could take better photos than the 4 mp, and then crop to create a better composition.


Have you ever considered the fact that you're a complete idiot?

[downtrodden]

Grip, c'mon, that was harsh and unfair. It is a widely accepted fact, however incorrect this "fact" may be, that a 7 mp camera will take better quality pictures than a 4 mp camera. We all know this isn't true, not by a long shot.

But we here are a minority of camera users and buyers. The average camera buyer doesn't know that more megapixels do not make better photos, they assume it to be true and this is why camera manufacturers do not focus on making cameras with the things we want. bottomline, manufacturers feed the hype about megapixels while neglecting things that could make a camera actually better, because megapixels sell cameras, not image quality.

Ignorance on the part of the consumer, yes- idiocy though? probably not.

[tim11]

Have you ever considered the fact that you're a complete idiot?

GripTape,
If you don't have any positive answers for OP, or can't care less I suggest you leave the thread alone. Such comments as these will only provoke another threadful of slanging matches which don't have anything positive for the forum.

There is forum rules at the top of every forum (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/announcement.php?f=10), and you have certainly broken it.
--------------

[tkjdnow]

Actually, I removed a self-deprecating remark using the term "idiot" from my post, as it did not clarify my issues.

I used 35mm SLR film cameras in high school and college. I enjoyed playing around with shutter speeds and f stops, but realize that I am no photographer. What I most enjoy is really the framing of the shot--so I bought a Canon AF35 20+ years ago. The camera took fabulous photos, sharp and clear, and I could concentrate on composition. The AF finally literally fell apart, after being held together with duct tape.

I finally went digital because I could no longer afford film and processing, and because of the ease of storage--toting a few cds vs. cartons of photographs when running from hurricanes.

I did weeks of research on cheap cameras, and I bought the 570 because forums like this referred to Canon's good lenses, the use of AA, the viewfinder + LCD, and the manual options. I know from downloading photos that larger images magnify better on computer screens, so I figured it would be the same with 7mp vs. 4 mp.

Downtrodden, thanks for your responses. They make sense--never heard that Canon was known for "soft" images. I'm going to re-read those forums I went to, and search Flickr.

Sorry for the autobiography.

[griptape]

So the lesson here is that drinking and posting is very dangerous. I really do apologize. I was actually generalizing the consumer market of "well it has more mega pixels, it must be better" that people buy into, as downtrodden was saying. I honestly didn't mean it as a personal attack, and again, I hope you didn't take it seriously or any offense to it, as clearly I'm the idiot here.

But sensors have actually started getting a little smaller since the days of 3 and 4mp cameras due to the fact that super compacts are... well, smaller. My 4 year old 3mp Fuji (that my mom now enjoys) still out performs (especially in low light) my SD550 (a lot like the SD1000) in 100% crop noise comparisons.

The mega pixel race has really been unfortunate for the consumer, as it's a very easy thing to look at and say "hey, this has more, it must be better", when in reality, mega pixels are probably the smallest part of the image quality equation. The higher mega pixel cameras actually count on you doing mostly 4x6 non-cropped print sizes. And at those sizes, the image quality usually is better than the older generations. I know it's a dissapointment coming from a medium format, but it's just a part of the compact digital camera life.

[downtrodden]

Try taking one of your photos from your 570 and cropping it no more than 50% and printing it at like wal-mart or something. You'll have to find a "sweet spot" for your camera- but i'd say it'll be around 50% before any sort of grain becomes visible in printed images. If you're printing 4X6 or 5X7 you'll find you have a larger latitude for cropping before any sort of noise appears in your photographs. Try to keep in mind, when you view a digital image at 100% on a computer screen, the section of image you can see on the screen is larger than most of the photographs you'll print.So when you print your image, a lot of that noise will be "squeezed" out.. if that makes any senes..

~Cory

[bascom]

The A570 is good normally, buy tkjdnow probably bought a lemon from an on-line seller as we discussed here:

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32219&highlight=A570