Canon EOS 350D or Nikon D40?

[jjackman]

Canon EOS 350D or Nikon D40?

I've read so many posts on this topic and I still haven't got enough information to help me decide on whch one to buy. It seems as soon as I think I'm decided on which one to buy, I hear something different which throws me off again. So if anyone with experience with both cameras or can tell me what they like about one of the cameras over the other, please do so :). But in your post please be sure to compare the two. This will also be the first DSLR camera I will own.

What kind of photography I'm into:
Action
Night
Portrait
Macro

*Mainly Action and Portrait*

What I want from my camera:
Low noise
Small shutter lag
Fast and accurate auto focus (I am fully aware of the D40's issue with this)
And of course brilliant photo quality!

Hopefully this info will help you in your very helpful response to this post!
Thanks!

[GaryS]

It sounds like you have done your research so far, and you are only going to hear more conflicting ideas....

Best thing to do is go into a camera store and play with both of them. See how they feel, and decide what lens you will need for the things you do.

Then pick one.

You will be able to get great photos from either.

[nqjudo]

Great advice. Decide which camera offers the features that you like/need best and go with that one. Both companies produce fine products and advantages.disadvantages are relatively slight depending on your usage.

[griptape]

As stated, you can get great quality out of both. When it comes to DSLR's the lens is a much more important factor in picture quality than the body itself is. You might make a wish list of lenses YOU would actually want to have for both brands and see which comes out to be the better value.

[coldrain]

Like mentioned above, the lenses are a very important part of the deal.
Since you are looking at the cheapest DSLRs, I guess your budget it very limitted though...

Low shutter lag, good photo quality, low noise, fast AF, both cameras are good.

But the D40 has a few downsides to it. It has no exposure bracketing, no mirror lock up, no depth of field button, only 3 AF points, misses ISO and whitebalance buttons, meaning you have to dig through the menu to get at them, it just is one severly stripped down DSLR. And on top of that, it has a missing internal motor, making good affordable 3rd party lenses out of your reach, making it the more expensive choice in future.
It misses a decent RAW convertor too.

Of course the XT offers a bit higher resolution too, but this should be the least of your "worries".

The lens choice is important and will need some budget, though.
Action? That is too vague to comment on.

Macro? You will want a dedicated macro lens. You can combine that with a good portrait lens, as long as you get a macro lens with a focal length that is especially suited for portrait photography.
The Nikon 60mm f2.8 micro, the Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 macro, and the Sigma 70mm f2.8 macro are the best candidates.
On the D40, neither the Nikon nor the Sigma will autofucus!
On the XT, the Sigma and the Canon will be very good macro lenses, and very nice portrait lenses.

Night? What do you mean with night... What do you photograph in the night? People/portraits? City scapes? The moon? "Action"?
You do not need a special camera or lens for "night", but what you will need will depend a LOT on what you want to photograph in low light.

[jjackman]

Thanks for replying coldrain, I am totally aware of all of these advantages of the XT over the d40...I guess I'm just tryin' to find someone to tell me why I should even take a second glance at the d40. Yeah my budget is tight, I'm a 17 year old workin' at $7.41/hr to try and afford a DSLR! Haha! I am actually takin' in consideration savin' up a little more to buy a 30d, but I don't know if I wanna wait that long, or if its a good idea seeing im new to the world of DSLR.

What do I mean by "Action"? I mean I like to photograph moving people and animals mostly. Sports (mostly indoor) is also what I enjoy shooting. What I mean by "Night" photography is I like to take pics of the sky at night such as the stars and the northern lights.

Thanks for the lens options, I will take a look at these, and thanks again for replying!

[griptape]

I think a 30D would be complete overkill for the most part if you weren't also able to buy nice lenses to go with it. It can take more continuous shots faster, but if you're taking them on f/4-5.6 glass, you would have been better off getting a cheaper body with a nicer lens.

[JTL]

I'm just tryin' to find someone to tell me why I should even take a second glance at the d40.D50...maybe, D40...no way. That's just my opinion (and I'm entitled to it). The lack of an AF motor makes it DOA as far as I'm concerned...

Why did Nikon kill off the D50? Because it was eating into D80 sales, plain and simple. Whenever a camera is marketing driven (or more accurately, market segmentation driven), such as the D40, rather than "photographer" driven...there's a big red flag waving around...in my opinion, that is...;)

[jjackman]

[QUOTE=JTL;232747]D50...maybe, D40...no way. That's just my opinion (and I'm entitled to it). The lack of an AF motor makes it DOA as far as I'm concerned...[QUOTE]

Exactly what I was thinkin'. But seeing the that d50 is discontinued, I think the best buy for me at the moment would be the XT.

*I don't know how to work the quote thing, haha.

[tekriter]

Well, I'm a Nikon guy, but I wouldn't buy a D40. In my opinion, they crippled it too much for me to recommend it.

I imagine there have already been quite a few upset D40 buyers who have ordered lenses that didn't autofocus on the D40 and they had no idea why not. Having someone new to DSLRs ordering lenses over the net with no real sales help in most cases is asking for trouble. And if the phone sales rep DOES try explaining why the $350 Sigma doesn't work but the $800 Nikkor will - well, that sounds like upselling to most people and they write off the sales rep as a crook.

[swgod98]

I guess I'm just tryin' to find someone to tell me why I should even take a second glance at the d40.

Well, you did post in the Canon forum :) I figured I'd chime in since nobody else is speaking up for the D40...not that I am trying to push the D40 on you. But, since you seem to want honest feedback (from both sides), here it goes...

I think the most obvious thing that would make you think twice about passing up the D40 is handling it next to the XT. Nothing against the XT, but there have been complaints from day 1 about the XT and XTi regarding handling. If you don't have an issue with handling, then you can overlook this as an advantage to the D40.

The D40 is better built...whether it's just a matter of material used or build quality I'm not going to get into. That combined with the ease of handling in comparison really makes the D40 an easy (and fun) camera to hold onto and use.

If I'm not mistaken, the D40 has an AF assist lamp built into the body which the XT doesn't. I've always liked having the AF assist lamp, because you can't use the AF assist (via flash) on the XT without actually using the flash in your shot.

Personally, I think the XT might be the better choice for you, considering your range of interests. You don't seem to be the type of person who is going to buy the camera body and lens and let it be. If you had more money, it wouldn't be as much of a concern...hell, you'd probably not be considering the XT and D40 in that case. But, the fact remains, you're tight on cash and want (or so it seems) a lot out of your setup.

In response to other things...Not to downplay these concerns, but just a point of reference based on my experience (and shooting style):

Exposure bracketing: Only used it once. It's a feature that makes some things easier, but not necessarily a requirement, since you can also easily change settings one shot after the next to get the same result.

Mirror lockup: Useful in some situations. But, I don't see it as a requirement for the average person.

Depth of field preview: I was concerned about this when I first bought my camera, but soon realized I would never, ever use it.

3 AF points: This is among the smallest # of points in any dSLR. However, on any/all of the entry level models, only the center point has the best sensitivity. All the other points are less sensitive (read: won't focus as reliably). Most people use only the center point.

Now, speaking about focusing reliability. I think most Canon people will jump all over me for saying this. But, I have read over and over about the XT's focus reliability. There appears to be certain lenses and/or certain situations that can cause the XT to not focus reliably. That's a huge turnoff IMO. If this is of any concern, look into it and make sure you don't buy a lens that might cause this problem...and if it's a "situational" issue, make sure you are aware of it so you don't miss a great shot accidentally.

Oh, I forgot to mention the D40's built in editing capabilities. Most people scoff at this, but hey...it's there!

And the viewfinder is better on the D40.

What about LCD size? 1.8" on XT vs. 2.5" on D40 = huge difference.

I should probably stop...point being there are plenty of reasons to give the D40 a second glance.

Oh...I don't think anyone mentioned this, but the XT has a second LCD for camera settings (not sure if it is backlit, probably not), the D40 does not have one of these (uses the main LCD for settings).

[JTL]

I imagine there have already been quite a few upset D40 buyers who have ordered lenses that didn't autofocus on the D40 and they had no idea why not.It would interesting (but probably impossible) to find out just how many people bought a D40 and didn't realize that the lack of the AF motor had cut them off from dozens of lens choices...and how many are embarrassed that they didn't know it before hand, but now don't admit that it bothers them after the fact and after learning the ugly truth (let's face it... no one wants to look dumb...especially in a public forum). I think Nikon did a crappy thing, but that's just me.

But I'm sure there are those who bought the D40 with their eyes wide open, knowing the limitations (like those of use who buy the XT knowing its sometimes "challenging" ergonomics) and for them, I'm happy that they enjoy shooting with it...

[jjackman]

Wow, thanks swgod98 for the very informative reply! :D

Yeah, I did post this in the Canon fourm because it was my first post and didn't know about the "Which camera should I buy?" fourm, I simply joined dcresource to get some advice from experienced people on these cameras. I posted this exact same post in the "Which camera should I buy" fourm, and something similar in the Nikon Digital SLR fourm haha..anyway....

I do agree that the d40 is probably better to hold than the XT (haven't held the d40 yet) because I have held the XT and found it small in my hands, but it isn't anything that would sway my decision any, I believe I will get use to it.

Honestly, I don't know what exsposure bracketing, mirror lock-up, or the depth of field preview does...so I have to reseach that a little to further my decision making. I didn't know about the center point being the most sensitive, that makes me not see that as such an issue anymore, but most reviewers say this is a big deal when it comes to accurate focusing.

I'm not suprised at all to hear about the focus reliability issues with the XT. I have the Canon S3 and it also has bad focus reliability, especially in low light, about 85% of my shots in low light are not focused properly!

I like the idea of the second LCD on the back of the XT instead of the info being on the main LCD, this will help the battery life...and it doesn't matter to me the small size of the main LCD. BTW, the second LCD on the XT is backlit by pressing a button :).

Thanks again for this very informative reply.

[Ray Schnoor]

and how many are embarrassed that they didn't know it before hand, but now don't admit that it bothers them after the fact and after learning the ugly truth (let's face it... no one wants to look dumb...especially in a public forum).
I don't think that is necessarily so. Look at how many people say they tried to purchase something at a ridiculously low price only to find out that they got scammed. They then post it in a(many) public forum(s). Happens all the time. At least in the case of the D40, they actually have an item to have and hold.

Ray.

[GaryS]

Just a couple of comments..... They are only semi-related, but thats what I do.

My XTi has 9 focus points... and if I use them all it NEVER seems to focus on the correct thing. I almost always use the centre point only. When it is on a tripod, it is nice to be able to choose one of the other 8 though.

I never use automatic exposure bracketing. I do it manually.

I don't mind the grip on the XTi at all.

The XTi is supposedly much better for AF than the XT. I can't comment on the XT as I've not used one, but my XTi is very reliable for hitting the focus right.

[JTL]

At least in the case of the D40, they actually have an item to have and hold.

Ray.My point exactly...people want to love their cameras (and their "stuff" in general)...it's natural...it becomes part of their identity...and they will forgive (or at the very least, rationalize) the limitations whether realized in advance or not...

Getting scammed is a different story. It makes people mad and makes them want to get even...thus the "public" posting of the incidents. The poster's need to "get even" outweighs their fear of embarrasment...

Psych 101 :D

[coldrain]

The D40 does not handle better than the XT. When people complain about the ergonomics, they mean that thay find the grip a bit small, that is all. The build quality of the XTi/XT is very good.

The XT has no problem in AF-ing in low light, at all. In fact, even at night all my lenses except the Sigma 18-50 focus without a hitch. Never need an AF assist light (which is good... since AF assist lights do not have a big reach).
Nice too, to have an AF assist light on a D40, when a wider lens blocks it...

The XT does have slightly less accurate AF than the other Canon DSLRs. That is why I would advice the XTi if you can afford it, over the XT.

The extra focus points get in handy in some situations (selecting which one to use), and especially when tracking fast subjects. That is where you really will notice if you have only 3, or 7 or 9 scattered over the image.

The view finder of the D40 is pretty much the same size as that of the XT/XTi.
The D40's handling can be cumbersome, especially with settings.

Exposure bracketing is when you make 3 shots, one a bit under exposed, one a bit over exposed, and one in the middle.
You can use it when the exposure is challenging, so you are sure to hit the right exposure, or for DRI/HDR, where you combine 3 differently exposed photos to gain more "dynamic" range in the photo.

Mirror lock up is when you use a long tele or longer exposure time, when you do not want the vibration of the mirror slapping up to interfere with the sharpness of the photo.

Depth of field button closes the aperture, so you see through the lens what effect the selected aperture opening has on the depth of field of the photo, what looks in focus and what not. Without it, all you can do is take a photo, try to judge depth of field on the LCD, then reshoot when necessary.
Very handy/needed at times with macro photography.

[Ray Schnoor]

My point exactly...people want to love their cameras (and their "stuff" in general)...it's natural...it becomes part of their identity...and they will forgive (or at the very least, rationalize) the limitations whether realized in advance or not...

Getting scammed is a different story. It makes people mad and makes them want to get even...thus the "public" posting of the incidents. The poster's need to "get even" outweighs their fear of embarrasment...

Psych 101 :D
There are plenty of people on this forum that complain about the cameras they buy, how they can't focus consistently, shutter lag too long, etc...

I don't know why you think that people complaining about the D40 would be any different. I guess that we will just have to disagree.

Ray.

[JTL]

When people complain about the ergonomics, they mean that thay find the grip a bit small, that is all. The build quality of the XTi/XT is very good.When I complain about the XTs ergonomics, I also mean the thumb-strecth/button-push/wheel-turn acrobatics in manual mode...but I knew that before I bought it and accept it. For what I shoot and how I shoot it, it's a non-issue. I understand that a sports or wedding photographer might want something else.

I would go so far as to say the build quality of my XT is excellent. And it has, without question, the best image quality/price point ratio on the market, period.

[griptape]

While there are ergonomic preferences, if you find the XT too small, there's a battery grip. I bought the Opteka grip (made from the same mold as Canon's grip, just as reliable) AND two extra NB2L replacements (forgive me if I got the battery name wrong, but the one the XT uses) for $80 at amazon. In addition to the double battery life, it gives you an extended grip AND a vertical shutter release (for taking portrait oriented pictures just as comfortably as landscape). Without the grip, it really was too small for my hands, but with, I couldn't really ask for anything more.

[XaiLo]

I could chime in here and tell you... why you should pick the D40 and not the XT/XTI or vice versa but the fact of the matter is it's your choice. and what's acceptable to me does not translate into your happiness. If you intend on shooting sports at night then there is no way to over look the requirement of a fast lens which will translates into spending at least the equivalent of the camera on a lens. How you're able to interact with the camera to achieve the results you want should not be readily dismissed.

Unfortunately from what I have read you don't know enough to understand how a choice may or may not effect you. Most of us have been in the same situation and faced simular quandrys. Do yourself a favor test the cameras as best you can, find a local photography club. They may have a couple of members with these cameras.

Sometimes there is no substitute for experience and knowledge, either way you have a 50% chance of getting it right. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, such is life. My advicefor what it's worth, take your time understand your needs and then proceed with confidence. One other side note you may want to consider the different flash systems. Good luck in your pursuits and happy shooting. :)

[JTL]

There are plenty of people on this forum that complain about the cameras they buy, how they can't focus consistently, shutter lag too long, etc...

I don't know why you think that people complaining about the D40 would be any different. I guess that we will just have to disagree.

Ray.Ray...there is literally a ton of research in this area (purchase behavior pre and post). It makes fun reading (if you're nuts, like me).

But anecdotally...I see a lot more people defending crappy cameras rather than complaining about their purchases. Research bears out this behavior.

Specific to the D40...on all the forums I've read when someone discovers the lack of an AF motor and complains about it...no other owners jump in commiserate. Instead vicious wolf packs descend upon the complainer with the "it's your fault for not doing your homework" song. This tends to further limit the amount of complaining (the “social presence” factor) and the complainer(s) begin(s) to rationalize that there is nothing really to complain about. And, furthermore, they rationalize their decision not to desire to purchase any non-motorized lenses after the fact. Thus internal conflicts are resolved and the purchaser goes on to enjoy their purchase. Some of the initially diasappointed will of course return/sell/bash the purchased D40. But most will not.

On the contrary, when someone gets scammed and posts about it, even though you get one or two "you should have known better" comments, more people than not will support the person because the person is viewed as a true victim in need of help/support. No one views a person who wishes they bought a different camera as a victim. It's an apples and oranges situation if ever there was one. Disagree if you like, but you're disagreeing with basic human (dare I say mammalian) behavior. The recent study by Felix Werneken and Michael Tomasello backs this up further by basically proving that certain mammals (chimps and humans) want to help one another (even so far as to go out of their way to help) when in need.

[Ray Schnoor]

Disagree if you like, but you're disagreeing with basic human (dare I say mammalian) behavior. The recent study by Felix Werneken and Michael Tomasello backs this up further by basically proving that certain mammals (chimps and humans) want to help one another (even so far as to go out of their way to help) when in need.
I'm not disagreeing with your assertion that people want to help others that have been scammed, but with your assertion that people are embarrassed to complain about the cameras they have already bought/have.

The one that comes to mind right now is how the Rebel XT does not have good AF with 3rd party lenses. I do not know if this is true or not and I am not trying to denigrate the XT, but I have read about this complaint from several owners of the XT. I see no reason why D40 owners wouldn't complain about the lack of an AF motor after the fact, too.

Ray.

[JTL]

The one that comes to mind right now is how the Rebel XT does not have good AF with 3rd party lenses. I do not know if this is true or not and I am not trying to denigrate the XT, but I have read about this complaint from several owners of the XT.Oh, it's true alright! :D

Well, I should say that I can tell you first hand that it was true in my case (and, yes, many others that I've read about). And yeah, I felt crappy about it and rationalized that it was the Sigma lens and not the XT that was the problem (I say rationalized because I didn't/don't really know for sure whether it was the len's fault or the camera's fault...I still don't). But, I didn't complain about it a lot even though it bothered me and forced me to leave the XT home and take the S2 to India instead. I never really talked about it till now...DCRP = cheap therapy! :D

I see no reason why D40 owners wouldn't complain about the lack of an AF motor after the fact, too.

But, still, it's a slightly different situation with the XT and third party lenses...there is/was ambiguity. Is/was it the lens or the camera? There is no ambiguity surrounding the D40...it doesn't have an AF motor. If someone didn't realize that before they purchased, they are not getting emotional support in regard to their complaint from anyone and an army of webinites stand ready to convince them that there's nothing to complain about anyway...and for some, that's true...the vast majority then rationalize...wait...we covered this...if you don't get it or don't agree, then I guess you don't get it and/or don't agree. O.K...I'm even boring myself at this point...:D Bottom line: they don't complain because they've been told to feel that they should have known better (thus, they have no "right" to complain) but that it doesn't really matter anyway so there is really nothing to complain about (which provides cover for feeling good about the purchase......which we want to feel...which has been absolutely proven in study after study). Maybe I'll start a "Secret Confessions of Camera Owners" blog...a safe place with lots of trust...

Personally, if a friend or family member bought a D40, I'd say "You did what? You bought a camera that doesn't have an AF motor? What on Earth would make you do such a thing?" and make them feel like total crap....because, frankly, I cannot think of any "rational" reason for buying such a thing. But that's just me. Mr. Sunshine. On the other hand, I'm sure someone might say to me: "What? You bought a camera that doesn't have separate control wheels for aperture and shutter speed? Why? Are you stupid?" They could be right...

We all rationalize whether we're conscious of it or not. We're hardwired to do it.

But, back to the XT...I'm happy to report, my new (Sigma) lens focuses spot on (and is going to China with me in August)! :D:D:D

[swgod98]

This is why a little research is important in any purchasing decision!!

When was the last time you bought a car and flipped out in anger 2 days after when you realized it required 91 octane?!? Oops, I better return this POS! I don't think so.

Or, maybe you got pissed off at Viwesonic when you hooked your new monitor up and realized it required a heavy duty video card to support it's unique resolution setting? Er...please tell me you didn't.

Ya, Nikon releasing the D40 as it is kind of sucks. I agree. I would always be sure to let potential buyers know the situation. But, that doesn't mean the camera can't be used with a smile on the buyers face and an ease of mind knowing they bought something that suits them well.

Just do the research and remember: Knowing is half the battle! :D

Thundercats HOOO!!!! Oops, wrong cartoon.

[Rooz]

Personally, if a friend or family member bought a D40, I'd say "You did what? You bought a camera that doesn't have an AF motor? What on Earth would make you do such a thing?" and make them feel like total crap....because, frankly, I cannot think of any "rational" reason for buying such a thing. But that's just me. Mr. Sunshine. On the other hand, I'm sure someone might say to me: "What? You bought a camera that doesn't have separate control wheels for aperture and shutter speed? Why? Are you stupid?" They could be right...

you hit the nail on the head with this one. whats important to some is not important to others. people like to try and impose whats important to then on everyone else.

people who criticise the d40 are forgetting who its aimed at. most people who buy it are unlikely to want big glass collections; at least at entry level. and when they do decide to expand their collection, almost without fail, the first extra lens people buy is a longer telephoto of which there are a myriad of afs nikkor lens choices.

it must still astound people that the d40 is such a huge success. do you think its a huge success cos everyone who bought one is ignorant to the fact of its AF motor limitation ? ahhh no. its successful cos it filled a gap in the market perfectly...otherwise...why would it sell ? must be alot of idiot buyers and super-smart sales/ marketing people in the world then.

is IQ a problem with the d40 ? absolutely not. is the kit lens a problem ? nope, best kit lens' around. build quality ? hardly. ISO ? nah. price ? no way. ergonomics ? nope. handling ? nope. size ? great small dslr for people moving up but without the flaws of the rebel. do people that review it think it sucks ? quite the opposite.

so, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the limitation of no lens motor which is such an issue with non-d40 owners and people not even in the market for a d40, is just not that important to that market segment.

[aparmley]

Canon EOS 350D or Nikon D40?


What kind of photography I'm into:
Action
Night
Portrait
Macro

*Mainly Action and Portrait*

What I want from my camera:
Low noise
Small shutter lag
Fast and accurate auto focus (I am fully aware of the D40's issue with this)
And of course brilliant photo quality!


I'm going to go ahead and cannon ball my a$$ into the minority pool here and say this: I think you should be looking at the D200 or 30D based on what you want out of a camera. I'll also add that you'll end up spending or trying like hell to find the money to spend that is in excess of 3-5 times the amount that you spent on your body. I would say that if someone spends about $800 USD on a DSLR body, after a year or two they will more than likely have spent or are working on having spent $2,000+ on lenses & other accessories.


... "You did what? You bought a camera that doesn't have an AF motor? What on Earth would make you do such a thing?" and make them feel like total crap....because, frankly, I cannot think of any "rational" reason for buying such a thing...

Does the XT, XTi, and the 30D have an AF motor built into the body? :confused:

[JTL]

Does the XT, XTi, and the 30D have an AF motor built into the body? :confused:You're right of course...I should have said "Nikon Camera". Every EF lens in the EOS system has a built-in AF motor, whether USM, MM or AFD. Every EF lens is compatible with every EOS body. It is a true "family". Since the system was launched in 1987, that's TWENTY YEARS of full compatiblity within the line. You of course know that not all Nikon/Nikkor AF lenses have their own motor. This fact is important (or not) based soley on the user's needs/expectations/etc. It's not a knock, it's just the way it is. I agree with the opinions expressed here that for almost everyone buying a D40, the fact that the AF motor is gone is not an issue. But it's STILL crappy that Nikon did it (IMO).

Anyway, you know what I meant...but now that you're a Nikonian, you're just a little more touchy!!! :p:D:p