stupid newbie question

[simsi]

Dear everybody,
I've never had a SLR camera and since they're now available for digital photography, I'm considering to buy one. What is the main advantage of such cameras, what is the drawback compared to standard ones?
In particular i would like ultrazoom (10x or so), is that possible with SLR cameras or are there manual lenses? I don't understand completely :o . Up to now i had the Kodak Easyshare at 4 MP, which was very convenient, only that i would like more ISO because in the darkness it is not terribly powerful.

Can you give me some advice?
Thank you!
Simone

[DonSchap]

Okay ... you need to clarify definitions a little.

My question is: What is a 'standard camera'?

In this modern world of photography ... there are several types of cameras available. The word "camera" is latin for the word we know as "room". So, in effect, your question asks, "What is a standard room?"

Okay, enough of the nonsense ...

Basically there are: Point & Shoot (P&S) cameras, which do not have interchangeable lenses and built-in flash ... usually no external flash. Digital Single Lens Reflex (DSLR) - fully MODULAR system of lenses, flashes and other attachments. Regarded as a "pay-as-you-go" type of system, built up into the desired outcome and pretty unlimited. Digital Format Cameras (Hasselblad-types) - big $$$ - you simply pay for what you want - usually classed as high-performance professional-grade instrumentation.


The advantages to having a DSLR is sheer speed. Depending on the camera body, that little flipping mirror can go up and down 12 times a second, producing a complete image everytime. The standard intro-body (sub $800) usually is around 2-3 times per second.

In a P&S camera, your time between shutter opening could be as long a two-three seconds. If something is moving, that's a long time to be waiting to take your next image. At the race track, forget about it.

Lens-wise, with a P&S camera, because the lens is permanent to the camera, you get what you get. There are some additional devices (add-on lenses)that can be screwed onto the front of the main lens, but can reduce the image quality and have other limitations when you do so.

The flash is also pretty permanent, somewhat controllable, but the P&S usually does not support the larger external flashes, because it has no "hot shoe", so the exposure levels are limited, indoors.

With the DSLR - the magic is in the interchangeability and adaptibility. You can put almost anything on the front of the camera and shoot with it, even a pinhole. One aspect you also encounter with such an open device is dust-contamination of the photo-sensor, when there is no lens mounted on the body, so leaving it open to the air is to be refrained from, whenever and whereever possible. You can add nearly any external flash attachment you want to the camera, via hot-shoe or sync-cable. Even an entire room full of flash-strobes, controllable in unison or individually with additional devices.

Also, several DSLR cameras come with additional timer devices and remote shutter releases available, which allow you to step away from the camera for sequenced shots and also hop into the image, yourself.

If you need a serious lesson on the differences, please go to the following sight and cruise through the knowledge base. They have done a wonderful job presenting these basic differences and will probably offer you an excellent education from which you can make you choice.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=MultiMiscPageAct&key=Learning_Station&fcategoryid=2533

The above link is the heart of the Learning Experience. A lot of people spent a lot of time to create it. I wholeheartedly recommand you take the time and absorb what you can. In the end, your decision will be much easier ... because only YOU truly know your needs. All we can do is guess. :D

Good luck in your ... exploration of this exciting world of writing with light.

[simsi]

wow, thank you so much for your quick answer!! :eek:
With a DSLR camera, can you have zoom (high one, around 10x) as automatic as in a P&S camera? Probably i just have to buy the lens that meets my requirements and screw it there?

Thank you very much!
Simone

[DonSchap]

Normally, zooming on a DSLR is usually a manual operation. To do so, you would grip the outer barrel of the lens (zoom ring) and turn it left or right, causing the lens to zoom in or out to your subject. Unlike P&S cameras, there are no electronic zoom in or zoom out buttons or toggle to worry about.

The other outer ring of an AF-type lens is the "focus ring". The modern AF-camera usually takes care of this function, with the autofocus controls inside the camera body. There is usually a MF/AF switch on the lens to allow you to manually override the focus, in cases where you can't get the camera to sharpen in on the subject you want to or to stop the AF from changing the setting, once you have acheived focus, yourself.

The DSLR lens you probably would love for this type of large ratio would be either a 18-200mm (11x) or 18-250mm (13x). There are a number of these lens available (third-party) for several of the popular manufacturers (first-party).

Hope this helps ... and Simsi, reread the original posting I had made. I did edit it.

[fionndruinne]

One (somewhat annoying) thing to learn is that, with SLRs, "zoom" means nothing like what it does with a fixed-lens camera. The 'x' factor refers to how many times the minimum focal length (called wide) the maximum length (the "long" end) happens to be. Because fixed-lens cameras tend to have similar wide angle lengths, the "x zoom" factor is useful for determining how close the zoom feature brings you to the subject.

In an SLR, though, this can be so far from the above as to be very confusing. For instance, a typical kit lens is 18-55mm, which is about a 3x zoom (smaller first number - the wide angle - times the larger second number - the long end). Now, say you want to pick up a telephoto or "zoom" lens, which will bring you much closer to the action. You go for a 55-200mm, which starts out at the same focal length as the long end of your kit lens. At this one's long end, 200mm, you're a lot closer than you were. But guess what? This lens is only considered a 4x zoom! And the popular 70-300mm, which gets you even a lot closer, is just about the same, still called a 4x lens!

What you therefore have to learn is that "zoom" is an arbitrary word which gets you nowhere in the SLR field as far as determining how much reach your lens will give you. What can you use? Focal length - those measurements in mm. There are several places found easily enough on the net which will give you the same photo taken at different focal lengths, and with the help of these it should be easy to learn what those numbers mean, and shop intelligently for lenses.

There, folks, did I learn my own lesson about zoom and focal lengths quickly? I try.

[TooMuchButtHair]

So, fionndruinne, let me see if I get this DSLR lens thing right: if I buy a 18-55mm lens, I will have about a 3x zoom, with 18mm being my starting 'point'. If I get a 55-300mm zoom lens, the minimum 'zoom' (at 55mm) would look like the maximum 'zoom' on the other lens, correct?

If that is true, than I am suddenly not so confused. I always wanted to get an xti or a D40, but I was incredibly confused about the darn DSLR lens. I might consider getting one of those cameras, and an 18-200mm lens. I won't be taking any 'pro' shots at all, and the versatility that lens provides me will do me well. But it is really hard to give up the convience of having the video option on an ultra-zoom SLR-like camera. It really comes in handy at family functions.

[Rooz]

So, fionndruinne, let me see if I get this DSLR lens thing right: if I buy a 18-55mm lens, I will have about a 3x zoom, with 18mm being my starting 'point'. If I get a 55-300mm zoom lens, the minimum 'zoom' (at 55mm) would look like the maximum 'zoom' on the other lens, correct? If that is true, than I am suddenly not so confused.

thats correct. there are a wide variety of lens focal lengths though. ranging from a wide angle lens like a 10-20mm, to a midrange lens like an 18-70mm and then onto telephoto like 70-300mm as examples. what you will find is that the one "do it all lens" is comprimised in many ways. to get the large range of focal length comprimises are made to IQ which is why DSLR allows yo to get specialised lens for specialised purposes. sure you have to change lens' but the image quality is much better.

you can investigate the nikkor 18-200VR lens. probably the most versatile good quality and flexible lens on the market right now.

[TooMuchButtHair]

thats correct. there are a wide variety of lens focal lengths though. ranging from a wide angle lens like a 10-20mm, to a midrange lens like an 18-70mm and then onto telephoto like 70-300mm as examples. what you will find is that the one "do it all lens" is comprimised in many ways. to get the large range of focal length comprimises are made to IQ which is why DSLR allows yo to get specialised lens for specialised purposes. sure you have to change lens' but the image quality is much better.

you can investigate the nikkor 18-200VR lens. probably the most versatile good quality and flexible lens on the market right now.

Excellent. I know that if I were to get that 18-200mm lens I wouldn't get the same photo quality I would with a lens that was 18-36mm, and another that was 50-300mm, but like I said before, my photos aren't for anything special.

Is it possible to buy an 10mm half-lens, and then a 50mm other half (if that even makes sense)?

[fionndruinne]

No, I'm lost on that last question. :eek:

The range from 18mm to 200mm is about 11x; now, if you were to buy an 18-55mm and a 55-200mm, you'd have a 3x zoom and a 4x zoom lens. Not even sure how that can be the same thing as an 11x lens.

'Cause it can't! 'Cause it's arbitrary and useless in determining reach on an SLR lens.

[DonSchap]

The lens multiplier really is a relative measurement of the lens itself. When you are dealing with a permanent lens, I gues it makes sense ... but when you can actually change the lens ... it means just about jack sh** ... uh, I mean nothing. :rolleyes:

Simply stated:

When you have a DSLR camera ... your reach is measured in the focal length of that particular lens and what it is manufactured to, measured in millimeters (mm).

These lenses are also grouped together in ranges, based on those measurements. Hence, we have this: (based on the APS-C digital sensor)

Focal Length ................ Class of lens
10mm - 18mm ............. Ultra-wide angle
18mm - 24mm .............. wide-angle
24mm - 40mm .............. normal
40mm - 70mm .............. short-telephoto
70mm - 300mm ............ telephoto
300mm - 500mm .......... super-telephoto

Ideally, it is nice to have a selection of lenses that straddle all these ranges, but usually this cannot be done with only one lens. Currently, the widest stretch available is with the TAMRON AF18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) lens, which is a kind of compromise lens, but it usually handles the normal daily requirements of 70% of all phtographers.

Shortening the distance between the focal length usually results in a better image quality. So, it stands to reason that a 17-35mm zoom might produce a better looking image than a 18-70mm zoom. More often than not, this depends entirely on the build quality of the lens, not the range, but it usually is a safe bet the shorter range yields sharper looking results.

"Kit lens" (18-55mm or 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6) are usually made entirely of plastic, even the lens elements themselves. They sell for less than $100 and simply do not offer a decent management of the light for zooming anywhere beyond 28mm.

Obviously, one has just to look at the prices of some of these various lenses to appreciate just how much a good lens will cost. A good rule is, if the zoom is less than $300 (sugg. retail) ... it's basically a starter lens and you can do better and probably should avoid it, if you are serious about your images and are looking forward to a "bright" future with the camera.

If you are just poppin' shots to catch the mood ... well, then it is all relative and you probably should just opt for a P&S-style camera. Why waste big $ on expensive equipment? You could trade up, year after year and probably spend less than you will for a good DSLR outfit.

If you are looking for what to put in the "basic bag" for the serious DSLR user, there have been several attempts at pricing what the group on DCRP has felt is a reasonable price and expectation. These forum suggestions include some terrific lenses and a good beginner to medium-grade body to put them on. Going through the forums might reveal these bag suggestions.

Oh, here's one ...

A good camera bag suggestion (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25136)

Good luck in your choices and I hope this shed some light on the subject. :)

[AlexMonro]

Something that might help the original poster to get a feel for DSLR zooms is to relate the focal length to telescope magnifiction. For longer focal lengths, the view you get is roughly similar to a telescope of FL/30 magnification, so a 200mm lens is like a 7x telescope, a 300mm is like a 10x telescope, etc.

[simsi]

Dear everybody,

I would really like to thank you for all your answers. This forum is a great idea, and the people are answering so carefully! :D

Finally after thinking a lot I think I will stay with a P&S camera because probably I don't need the rest. I am thinking of Olympus SP-550 or Canon S3, but I posted this question into the other thread related to "Which camera should i buy?"
If one of you has some hints for that, please let me know!

Thanks again very much!
Simone :cool:

[erichlund]

No, I'm lost on that last question. :eek:

The range from 18mm to 200mm is about 11x; now, if you were to buy an 18-55mm and a 55-200mm, you'd have a 3x zoom and a 4x zoom lens. Not even sure how that can be the same thing as an 11x lens.

'Cause it can't! 'Cause it's arbitrary and useless in determining reach on an SLR lens.

One of the reasons you have difficulty with this is that you are not using exact math. An 18-200 is actually 11.111111111111...x

If you do the exact math to divide 55 by 18 and divide 200 by 55, then multiply the two together, you get 11.111111111111...x

Funny how that works out. So, while the combination is approximately a 3x and a 4x lens, together, they are the same as the approx. 11x lens.

This 11x is the zoom range, just as on a p&s camera. However, you have to know what the starting point is...ON BOTH CAMERAS, and you have to compare apples to apples. So, we use 35mm equivalents. You need to look at the starting point for the p&s to determine what its 11x means. They usually start at 35mm equivalent, so 11x would yield approximately 385mm top end. Now, on my APS-C sensor, my 18-200 yields a 35mm field of view of a 27-300mm (Funny, that also comes to 11.111111111...x). So, by direct comparison, mine is wider at the low end but doesn't have quite as much reach. Now, if you managed to mount my 18-200 on an Oly 4/3 dSLR with the smaller sensor, that has a 2x crop factor (yields 36-400 equiv) that would almost exactly match the mythical p&s with the 35-385 lens.

The numbers aren't meaningless, they just have to be placed into context. Another factor to consider is depth of field. The dSLR is going to have more control of depth of field. OTOH, if you WANT everthing in reasonable focus, the p&s has that in spades. It almost cannot not do that.

[DonSchap]

I am certain that a P&S camera is a wonderful idea for just about everyone ... if you do not need speed ... serious resolution or lighting solutions ... then, it just about covers it all.

Oh, here comes my son ... running around the track ... "snap" ... okay ... I pressed the shutter a second time ( a second or two ticks by) ... uh ... "SNAP"

WTH? Okay, here he comes again .... focus - "SNAP" ... I press for another shot ... two more seconds go by ... "SNAP"

"Oh man ... what is with this thing?" I ponder ... and then it dawns on me ... the true meaning of the combination of those to evil words ... "Shutter lag." Up to two seconds between shots. And a lot can happen in to seconds ... yeah, like the boy is now fifty feet further down the track than he was in the first shot.

Okay ... replay with a DSLR (in AI SERVO) ... here he comes, again ... focus lock ... SNAP, lock, SNAP, lock, SNAP, lock, SNAP, lock ,SNAP (1 Second) ... lock, SNAP, lock, SNAP, lock, SNAP, lock, SNAP, lock, SNAP (two seconds)!

"Oh cool! This works just like I EXPECTED a camera would!"
:mad:

Please note: Don's experience, while hyped for explanatory purposes, is factual and just as aggravating as it sounds. YMMV ... but not much.