feedback from 8800 owners/users

[junji98]

i am thinking about acquiring this model. it was a toss up between a dSLR and a powerful point and shoot. in the end, i felt i was not really up to changing lenses and i felt i wanted all the "extras" associated with traditional digital cameras. my question concerns the performance of the 8800. i heard it is a bit slow. any comments? any feedback about anything regarding this camera would be greatly appreciated. thanks :cool:

[kornhauser]

My 8800 is sitting under the Christmas tree waiting for me to open it. I also put a tremendous amount of time and research into the 8800 verse the D70. I love SLR, but the added cost of lenses and equipment ruled it out. Also, Nikon's web-site has a unique feature that allows you to compare any of their cameras against another. When I compared the 8800 against the D70, the D70 was awesome, but the 8800 had more of the every day features that I'm sure to love when I unwrap it next week!

[junji98]

thanks kornhauser. i am just worried about the reviews that it is slow. i dont really know in what way it is slow. would you know?

[kornhauser]

I haven't opened my "present" yet. However, according to Nikon and several other forums, the Nikon 8800 is slower in several ways. (1) It's a second slower to start up than the D70. (2) It's frames per second is like 2.3 only in certain programing modes while the D70 is 3.0 or better. And lastly (3) I'm understanding that the 8800 is slower to focus than the D70.

My thoughts are this. I'm a detective with my agency and have always used my personal digital cameras over department issue. When I get out of the car, I always turn my camera on (crime scenes, not shoot-outs!). I've never had to worry about needing even 2.3 frames a second, so rapid pictures never did impress me that much. I'm also a little concerned about the slower focus, but once you get used to anything, it should become an extension, not a problen.

I used to own a Minolta 7000i. The last ten years all my cameras have been digital point and shoots. The Nikon 8800 is the best of the SLR and point and shoot world. Anything compared to what I had been using is going to be a major step up!

[brucegarrett]

Hello everyone... this is my first post:

I've had my 8800 since they were first available in England and have used it in many different situations and lighting conditions.

Outdoors in daylight on a wide angle setting on Auto the Autofocus will lock on in less than a second... marginally slower on telephoto.

Indoors in daylight takes about one second with sufficient light and contrast.

Indoors in artificial light takes about the same time but the Autofocus will hunt if there is insufficient contrast.

Shot to shot speed will vary with write time but on Extra Fine jpeg expect about two frames a second in ideal conditions.

Not exactly a scientific approach but more exhaustive tests can be read at imaging-resource.com or steves-digicams.com along with the review on this site.

Hope this helps.

Bruce

[TDT]

I'm getting a Nikon 8700, hopefully it's as fast s the 8800. I don't know much of the difference between the two, but I'm currently using a 5700 from college, so getting my own will be nice :P

[UberVamp44]

The 8700 is not that fastest focusing camera but its a great camera the 8800 is only better the 8700 I was going to buy the 8800 but finiacial issues didnt permit it but the 8700 speed is a tad on the slow side but many of its features compisate for its slow speed and the 8800 is a even better camera

Hope this might help and sorry for eny spelling errors

[brucegarrett]

Main advantages of the 8800 over the 8700 are extended zoom range and VR.

Start-up time and autofocus are faster and some key controls have been repositioned to make handling more efficient.

Also most of the features of Speedlights SB600 and SB800 are now compatible.

In England the price of the 8700 and 8800 are fairly similar making the 8800 the better choice.

Bruce

[John_Reed]

I see the 8800's aperture range is f2.8-5.0; when you folks are talking about "speed," isn't this something to consider? I'm maybe a Panasonic-biased guy, and don't pummel me too badly for saying it, but when you talk about how this 8800 camera is the "best and the fastest..." isn't the fact that its lens at full zoom is 2 stops slower than, say, the FZ20's lens important at all? In fact, all the speed numbers, frame rate, burst rate, autofocus speed, startup speed, shutter lag, etc., favor the FZ20. If it's that extra 3 megapixels that make the difference, is that the big thing? :confused:

[brucegarrett]

Hi John

Really pleased you're happy with your FZ20... so your point is?

Bruce

[John_Reed]

Hi John

Really pleased you're happy with your FZ20... so your point is?

BruceI thought the point was already made, but I'll re-iterate: I read the whole thread, praising the 8800 for being the "best of the best," yet everyone seemed able to overlook the slow speed as just a quirk. So it seemed to me the posters hadn't even looked at the FZ20 (I have an FZ10, thank you), which, except for the fact of having 3 fewer megapixels, is faster in almost every respect than the 8800. But don't be offended, I'll just bow out of the discussion.

[brucegarrett]

Hi John

Sorry if I sounded obtuse...

I spent ages comparing various 5-8 megapixel prosumer cameras including the Panasonics when I was looking to upgrade my original Coolpix 8700.

The 8800 does indeed have a slower lens and the autofocus isn't exactly blistering but on the whole I preferred it as an overall package.

I've managed some brilliant results with the 8800 as I'm sure you have with your FZ10 and I certainly didn't mean to offend.

Happy shooting.

Bruce

[John_Reed]

Hi John

Sorry if I sounded obtuse...

I spent ages comparing various 5-8 megapixel prosumer cameras including the Panasonics when I was looking to upgrade my original Coolpix 8700.

The 8800 does indeed have a slower lens and the autofocus isn't exactly blistering but on the whole I preferred it as an overall package.

I've managed some brilliant results with the 8800 as I'm sure you have with your FZ10 and I certainly didn't mean to offend.

Happy shooting.

BruceThanks, Bruce. One of my main frustrations with the FZ10, something that makes the FZ15 and FZ20 look appealing to me, is just those speed parameters. I like to shoot a lot of bird photos. If the bird is being very accommodating and posing quietly on his limb, I have no problem grabbing the image, and I'm fairly sure the 8800 would also do a good job in that instance. But when the bird is in the air, it's another story, and the slower auto-focus and shutter lags become a big deal. I think the FZ10 is a bit faster than the 8800, but still, I have lots of photos of the backs of a lot of birds as they're flying away! And a whole lot of shots that are just plain out of focus. Have you been able to succeed in that flighty realm with your 8800? It could be that I'm the slow one, and I'm just blaming the camera! :(

[brucegarrett]

Hi John

Some of the guys over on the Nikon Forum at Steves Digicams have had some success shooting birds with the 8800.

I live in London so most if not all the birds I see are pigeons.

Bruce

[kornhauser]

I've been playing with my 8800 for a few days now. First, my aperture range manually is f2.8 to f8. I would like it a little higher, but I'm getting great depth of field shots. Secondly, the camera is far from slow. The time to start isn't noticable and the time between shots is more than satisfactory. Not great, but very decent.

Mind you I can from a 35mm Minolta 7000i to a Sony Mavica digital. The 8800 is the Rolls Royce of point and shoots. Any hesitation I had regarding going to the SLR (Nikon D70) went out the window. The optical and digital zoom with the vibration reduction is incredible! Had I bought the D70 with all the lenses that the normal 8800 shoots at, I'd be another $800.00 in the hole buying lenses.

However, I'm not crazy about the built in speedflash. The light it throws isn't fantastic. I'm using fill flash to cover rooms though with good results until I can buy an iTTL flash.

My overall reaction? Best camera I've owned for a long time! And most advanced point and shoot available at this time!

Buy it! You'll like it!

[UberVamp44]

It might be faster if I where to be looking at speed or something I would get a SLR or something but the 8700 is a great camera so the 8800 will only be better

[D70FAN]

I've been playing with my 8800 for a few days now. First, my aperture range manually is f2.8 to f8. I would like it a little higher, but I'm getting great depth of field shots. Secondly, the camera is far from slow. The time to start isn't noticable and the time between shots is more than satisfactory. Not great, but very decent.

Mind you I can from a 35mm Minolta 7000i to a Sony Mavica digital. The 8800 is the Rolls Royce of point and shoots. Any hesitation I had regarding going to the SLR (Nikon D70) went out the window. The optical and digital zoom with the vibration reduction is incredible! Had I bought the D70 with all the lenses that the normal 8800 shoots at, I'd be another $800.00 in the hole buying lenses.

However, I'm not crazy about the built in speedflash. The light it throws isn't fantastic. I'm using fill flash to cover rooms though with good results until I can buy an iTTL flash.

My overall reaction? Best camera I've owned for a long time! And most advanced point and shoot available at this time!

Buy it! You'll like it!

Obviously you have never gone out shooting with a D70. Let's see those ISO 800 and 1600 shots from the 8800. DOF is always fantastic on an all-in-one as the sensor is only 2/3 of an inch across. Try a decent portrait shot at 75mm and f1.8.

The iTTL speedlight on the D70 is dead-on accurate, at 6 meters plus, and syncs at 1/500 sec.

Sorry, I'm not dising your camera but the 8800, VR lens and all, isn't even close.

[kornhauser]

Obviously you have never gone out shooting with a D70. Let's see those ISO 800 and 1600 shots from the 8800. DOF is always fantastic on an all-in-one as the sensor is only 2/3 of an inch across. Try a decent portrait shot at 75mm and f1.8.

The iTTL speedlight on the D70 is dead-on accurate, at 6 meters plus, and syncs at 1/500 sec.

Sorry, I'm not dising your camera but the 8800, VR lens and all, isn't even close.

George,

You may be right. However, cost being a major factor, you can't sway my decision. I did pick up the D70 and I do like it, but for my personal needs; the 8800 was the best choice.

The discussion over the best camera is similar to which is the best pistol (I'm a Police Officer). My arguement has always been, "if you can hit what you're aiming at, you're better than the best gun that can't".

Seems we can use that qoute torwards the camera issue also!

Happy New Year!

[Dark Cobra]

As a retired peace officer after 28 years, I love the firearm - camera analogy. A small decently accurate firearm that you can have with you all the time when you need it is far better than the bullseye large frame target pistol that sits unavailable in your closet when you really need it.

The same is true with cameras. Having a compact reasonable portable P&S camera that can be with you most of the time when you really need it, is far better than owning the full size dSLR and its related sizable accessory bag that sits in your closet when you wish you had it with you.

No one would argue that the dSLR is a superior camera due to full size sensors, super expensive lenses and other necessary attachments. But I'd rather have a smaller pretty decent quality firearm or camera with me most of the time when I really need it, than to have a better firearm or camera sitting in my closet because it was too much of a hassle to carry.

The quality of the 8700 & 8800, as well as the Panasonic Z20 family, are all pretty darn good and far more than what 90% of most serious camera buffs really need. At the end of the day, good well composed and interesting images are far more a product of the skill of the person rather than the sophistication of the equipment. ;)

[D70FAN]

As a retired peace officer after 28 years, I love the firearm - camera analogy. A small decently accurate firearm that you can have with you all the time when you need it is far better than the bullseye large frame target pistol that sits unavailable in your closet when you really need it.

The same is true with cameras. Having a compact reasonable portable P&S camera that can be with you most of the time when you really need it, is far better than owning the full size dSLR and its related sizable accessory bag that sits in your closet when you wish you had it with you.

No one would argue that the dSLR is a superior camera due to full size sensors, super expensive lenses and other necessary attachments. But I'd rather have a smaller pretty decent quality firearm or camera with me most of the time when I really need it, than to have a better firearm or camera sitting in my closet because it was too much of a hassle to carry.

The quality of the 8700 & 8800, as well as the Panasonic Z20 family, are all pretty darn good and far more than what 90% of most serious camera buffs really need. At the end of the day, good well composed and interesting images are far more a product of the skill of the person rather than the sophistication of the equipment. ;)

As an Ex Gunnersmate (Coast Guard) I will take you to task on the gun analogy, as I'm sure that if you were trying to stop drug runners, 50 miles off the coast, your use of a Glock 31 (one of my favorites) instead of that tripod mounted .50 wouldn't get you very far. But on the other hand I wouldn't board a suspect vessle with a .50 slung under my shoulder (ala Rambo).

So it comes down to the right tool for the job. The D70 never sits at home, and the travel package (D70, 18-125 DC, 4 CF Cards, 2 batteries, CR2 adapter, and TV patch cable) fits neatly into a very small Lowepro TLZ Mini. I can crank out about 3000 shots with 3 small EN-EL3 batteries, and leave the camera on all day without appreciable depleation. This means as soon as I grab the camera it is shooting pictures. Zero wait time, and almost zero lag time (even with flash).

Those who have never used a good dSLR will never know the many (many) subtle differences vs. an all-in-one. Yes, there are shots that I have taken with the D70 that would have been missed using an all-in-one.

Anyway, hope you all have a great new year, and hope to see some of those pictures in the future. ;)

[kornhauser]

[QUOTE=George Riehm]As an Ex Gunnersmate (Coast Guard) I will take you to task on the gun analogy, as I'm sure that if you were trying to stop drug runners, 50 miles off the coast, your use of a Glock 31 (one of my favorites) instead of that tripod mounted .50 wouldn't get you very far. But on the other hand I wouldn't board a suspect vessle with a .50 slung under my shoulder (ala Rambo).

You know, enough is enough. We're not out on the coast. Now you're getting into "my privates are bigger than your privates". Don't twist words around. It seems that you're pushing your idea and thoughts on what will work for you will work for the rest of us. That's just not true. My 8800 works PERFECTLY for my needs, not the needs of George.

Honestly, if you want to brag about how great your D70 is, my suggestion is to hang in the forum for the Nikon SLR and not the P&S.

[John_Reed]

As an Ex Gunnersmate (Coast Guard) I will take you to task on the gun analogy, as I'm sure that if you were trying to stop drug runners, 50 miles off the coast, your use of a Glock 31 (one of my favorites) instead of that tripod mounted .50 wouldn't get you very far. But on the other hand I wouldn't board a suspect vessle with a .50 slung under my shoulder (ala Rambo).

So it comes down to the right tool for the job. The D70 never sits at home, and the travel package (D70, 18-125 DC, 4 CF Cards, 2 batteries, CR2 adapter, and TV patch cable) fits neatly into a very small Lowepro TLZ Mini. I can crank out about 3000 shots with 3 small EN-EL3 batteries, and leave the camera on all day without appreciable depleation. This means as soon as I grab the camera it is shooting pictures. Zero wait time, and almost zero lag time (even with flash).

Those who have never used a good dSLR will never know the many (many) subtle differences vs. an all-in-one. Yes, there are shots that I have taken with the D70 that would have been missed using an all-in-one.

Anyway, hope you all have a great new year, and hope to see some of those pictures in the future. ;)Just as a measure of how much your D70 actually gets used, how many shots are on the frame counter? Maybe just break it down into shots/month, as I don't know how long you've had your camera. The number for my P&S is ~1,500/month, just for comparison's sake. I'll still bet that, statistically, you're less likely to be packing the D70 kit than you would be a smaller P&S (be it 8800, FZ20, whatever) when that moment comes up, if for no other reason than not to embarrass your wife!

[D70FAN]

Just as a measure of how much your D70 actually gets used, how many shots are on the frame counter? Maybe just break it down into shots/month, as I don't know how long you've had your camera. The number for my P&S is ~1,500/month, just for comparison's sake. I'll still bet that, statistically, you're less likely to be packing the D70 kit than you would be a smaller P&S (be it 8800, FZ20, whatever) when that moment comes up, if for no other reason than not to embarrass your wife!

Gee thanks for the support John. Frame counter says 4240. So I probably shoot about 400-500 frames a month, not because of the camera, but because that's about how many interesting things I see to shoot. Since I don't shoot any specific subject, and my camera time is limited to times when I'm not at work or paying attention to my wife and family.

My photography embarrasses my wife less frequently than it used to. ;)

Post Script (as in written later):

Actually, the FZ20 really isn't that much smaller than the D70 and neither is the 8800. And again, the D70 goes where I go. If I see a shot I take it. If it turns out right then it's a keeper, If not, and I can, I take it again. Fortunately, and the reason my volume is low, is because the former is true more often than the later.

Since a Picture is worth 1000 words, This is "The Kit" D70, 18-125 Sigma DC (with lens hood inverted), 2 EN-EL3 LiIon batteries, 4 CF Cards, TV cord, Tripple CR2 adapter (in there but optional). It's actually not as bulky as one might think.[/IMG]The Kit.jpg[IMG]

The partridge almost fits, but I put it in the pear tree and has to go into another bag :D

[D70FAN]

[QUOTE=George Riehm]As an Ex Gunnersmate (Coast Guard) I will take you to task on the gun analogy, as I'm sure that if you were trying to stop drug runners, 50 miles off the coast, your use of a Glock 31 (one of my favorites) instead of that tripod mounted .50 wouldn't get you very far. But on the other hand I wouldn't board a suspect vessle with a .50 slung under my shoulder (ala Rambo).

You know, enough is enough. We're not out on the coast. Now you're getting into "my privates are bigger than your privates". Don't twist words around. It seems that you're pushing your idea and thoughts on what will work for you will work for the rest of us. That's just not true. My 8800 works PERFECTLY for my needs, not the needs of George.

Honestly, if you want to brag about how great your D70 is, my suggestion is to hang in the forum for the Nikon SLR and not the P&S.

I appologize for missing your point, but if you look carefully, I wasn't addressing your post.

I don't live on the coast (left or right) and I wasn't comparing a Glock 31 to a .50, but pointing out that there is a right tool for the job, and finally I wasn't trying to sway you from the 8800 or to the D70 (or any other camera), nor would I presume to. Again the post was not addressed to your post but to Dark Cobras.

I wasn't bragging about the D70 (although it is damn good) and, with the exception of Fuji's consumer grade Super CCD sensor, I don't think that I have ever dissed any camera. I even find some redeeming value to an $88 Vivitar 3705, and my most frequently recommended cameras are the Canon A75 and the Panasonic FZ family, because they are the best in class, and I have actually used them for more than 10 minutes in the camera store.

Exactly! The 8800 works perfectly for your needs, and I never questioned, nor would I, that match.

As a final note: My appologies if you took offense to my reply to Dark Cobra.

[brucegarrett]

Ladies... please...

...shall we get back on subject?

Bruce

[D70FAN]

Ladies... please...

...shall we get back on subject?

Bruce

Please notice that I have mentioned the 8800 (the topic) in my posts. ;)

So we are, more or less, on topic. Which was?... "Oh ya, feedback from 8800 owners/users". I'm not an owner, but have used one, several times. :)

[John_Reed]

Since a Picture is worth 1000 words, This is "The Kit" D70, 18-125 Sigma DC (with lens hood inverted), 2 EN-EL3 LiIon batteries, 4 CF Cards, TV cord, Tripple CR2 adapter (in there but optional). It's actually not as bulky as one might think.[/IMG]The Kit.jpg[IMG]

The partridge almost fits, but I put it in the pear tree and has to go into another bag :DIn your case, you'd have to include "the partridge" to encompass the zoom range of the 8800 or FZ20. That is, it seems that your "kit" doesn't reach out to 432mm? (or 350mm for the 8800, which is more than equivalent to the FZ20's 432, because of its bigger 8MP sensor) Not trying to beat the dead horse to a pulp, but I'll still maintain that the smaller, lighter all-in-one instrument will tend to be with the average shooter in a higher percentage of shooting opportunities than will the larger multi-lens, dSLR package. Neither one of us can be called "average shooters," but wouldn't you at least agree with that one teensy little point?

[kornhauser]

George,

It wasn't until I posted and read my message did I realize that it sounded as hostile as it did. That was not my intention. Sorry about that.

What I meant to imply is what is good for one is not always good for another. Including cameras and guns (and everything else for that matter), I always get defensive when someone tries pushing the idea that "mine is better than yours". You did nothing like that.

Cops are notoriously bad about the "Bigger is better" factor. All things aside, I keep a personal Glock 27 on my ankle and a issued Beretta 96 in the holster. I'm also on my department's SORT team (SWAT to you northerners). Been in two shootings in fifteen years. Again, pistol shot placement was MUCH more critical than the guys that showed up with rifles. I have the said fact that "I've been there and done that".

I did do a major amount of comparision when it came to my decision to buy the 8800 over the D70. Even looked at the Canon Rebel and the Minolta Dimage A2. Factors such as pricing, ease of use, ease for my wife and daughter, storage, photo ability, etc. played a major factor.

If you want to talk about junk, my department issues me a Kodak 3.2 digital. It was the cheapest thing they could find. Most of the time I use my 8800 in my crime scene photography. I need something fast and easy. Fumbling with fingerprint powder, bruises and pry marks isn't the time to be fumbling with f-stops and aperature settings. The 8800 has been a blessing.

I know I gave some things up for the ease of use of the 8800. My daughter and I went out (bought her a HP325 for Christmas, hey - she's only 10) and we went on a "photo safari" on Sunday. The 8800 brought back a ton of beautiful pictures. I did wish I could have set the ISO higher than 400 and I still am not crazy my f-stop only goes to f8. However, nothing failed and I brought back some good pictures.

I meant no offense, sorry if I came across that way. A good dialog or debate is always welcomed!

[D70FAN]

George,

It wasn't until I posted and read my message did I realize that it sounded as hostile as it did. That was not my intention. Sorry about that.

What I meant to imply is what is good for one is not always good for another. Including cameras and guns (and everything else for that matter), I always get defensive when someone tries pushing the idea that "mine is better than yours". You did nothing like that.

Cops are notoriously bad about the "Bigger is better" factor. All things aside, I keep a personal Glock 27 on my ankle and a issued Beretta 96 in the holster. I'm also on my department's SORT team (SWAT to you northerners). Been in two shootings in fifteen years. Again, pistol shot placement was MUCH more critical than the guys that showed up with rifles. I have the said fact that "I've been there and done that".

I did do a major amount of comparision when it came to my decision to buy the 8800 over the D70. Even looked at the Canon Rebel and the Minolta Dimage A2. Factors such as pricing, ease of use, ease for my wife and daughter, storage, photo ability, etc. played a major factor.

If you want to talk about junk, my department issues me a Kodak 3.2 digital. It was the cheapest thing they could find. Most of the time I use my 8800 in my crime scene photography. I need something fast and easy. Fumbling with fingerprint powder, bruises and pry marks isn't the time to be fumbling with f-stops and aperature settings. The 8800 has been a blessing.

I know I gave some things up for the ease of use of the 8800. My daughter and I went out (bought her a HP325 for Christmas, hey - she's only 10) and we went on a "photo safari" on Sunday. The 8800 brought back a ton of beautiful pictures. I did wish I could have set the ISO higher than 400 and I still am not crazy my f-stop only goes to f8. However, nothing failed and I brought back some good pictures.

I meant no offense, sorry if I came across that way. A good dialog or debate is always welcomed!

Thanks for that. Sounds like you are having some fun with the 8800 and that's a good thing (Isn't Martha out yet? ;) ).

Yup, being on a Search and Rescue boat and a Federal Boarding Officer for a couple of years convinced me that law enforcement was not my calling. I had a hard time getting over losing people we were looking for, and then dealing with the morons that are allowed to ply the waterways, including the bad guys.

Anyway I guess John is waiting for a concession on the virtues of the FZ family vs. dSLR, so I'll go jaw with him for a minute.

Keep us updated, and find a site like smugmug to post some pictures (preferably not crime scenes ;) )

[D70FAN]

In your case, you'd have to include "the partridge" to encompass the zoom range of the 8800 or FZ20. That is, it seems that your "kit" doesn't reach out to 432mm? (or 350mm for the 8800, which is more than equivalent to the FZ20's 432, because of its bigger 8MP sensor) Not trying to beat the dead horse to a pulp, but I'll still maintain that the smaller, lighter all-in-one instrument will tend to be with the average shooter in a higher percentage of shooting opportunities than will the larger multi-lens, dSLR package. Neither one of us can be called "average shooters," but wouldn't you at least agree with that one teensy little point?

John, John, John. You are encouragable. :rolleyes: The 80-400mm zoom "pear tree" is part of the extra kit and runs about $1K. I guess you can go 28mm wide-angle without carrying an extra lens as well.

I will concede that for shooting birds, you got me. My 28-187 (35mm) f3.5-5.6, non-IS lens is hopelessly outgunned by the massive FZ brute. But somehow I manage to muddle along...birdless.

I guess I will just have to console myself with my humble, ungainly, short-sighted, unstabilized, dSLR. :rolleyes:

Oh, and by the way, stop sending that damned rain down here it's spoiling my shooting. Ya-know some of us need that extra light.:D

[Dark Cobra]

Well I see we've made progress from when I was last here in that we're no longer talking about coast guard weaponry (yawn). I guess we all have our preferences for the level of equipment we are using. I'm am glad somebody posted a picture of the camera bag they need to carry for their dSLR stuff. That photo probably makes my original point so much better than anything any of us could have said. Carrying that "thing" around with you often may well work for some . . . I'll pass . . . and I'm sure many others will for the same reason.

However, I'd rather have a much smaller simple pouch on my belt with an all-in-one high quality digital compact. As I stated before, nice images have far more to do with the skill of the photographer than the sophistication of the equipment. I've seen people with even larger camera bags and even more sophisticated equipment take little more than slightly better than average images, while others with far less sophisticated equipment take some real "keeper images". I guess there's room for both worlds, but clearly the compact digital world is growing immensely . . . .and for good reason.

Long live the coast guard and long live my 1968 Army Rangers from Fort Bragg . . . "Hoo Rah". ;)

[kornhauser]

"nice images have far more to do with the skill of the photographer than the sophistication of the equipment"

Best qoute on the whole subject. Now can we all agree to end this thread?!