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View Full Version : New Camera, New Pictures, Educate me please!



FirehawkNS
05-10-2007, 10:35 AM
I have been into photography for about 3 years now. I did what I could using an old Point and shoot and an N65 (Film SLR). I have friends that are big into it with there L lenses and 20D cameras, so I couldn't help but pick up interests after having them do some Amature professional pictures for me.

Anyway, I picked up an S3 the other day and started playing with it yesturday. My biggest weakness is trying to understand when to use F-stops/Shutter apeture/Iso. How to determine what effect I will get and to help me achive the pictures I want.

I also need help figuring out what you guys use to get the EXIF data and copy it here. Photo Shop CS wouldn't do it and I couldn't get Canons Zoom software to do it. I am probably not doing something right. If someone gives me some help on that I will post EXIF with these pictures so I can get some better help with them

Anyway, here are a few I have taken in manual. All below taken with a UV and a Polarizer filter both on, and a hood when needed.

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-1.jpg

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-2.jpg

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-3.jpg

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-4.jpg

These were taken in a hurry and I completely screwed them up IMO, but caught the plane banking right.

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-5.jpg

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-6.jpg

http://www.pewterz28.com/forumstuff/s3/s3-7.jpg

Oh and please ignore the bad setting with the houses and cars. Had to work with what I had outside the door.

FLiPMaRC
05-10-2007, 12:55 PM
Anyway, I picked up an S3 the other day and started playing with it yesturday. My biggest weakness is trying to understand when to use F-stops/Shutter apeture/Iso. How to determine what effect I will get and to help me achive the pictures I want.

You can start here ... http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/fototech/apershutter/index.htm


A great book to get is Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0817463003.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

meganecp
05-12-2007, 10:45 AM
I just ordered this! Glad to see someone else reccommending it!

zmikers
05-12-2007, 06:58 PM
When I was reading your original post I was going to recommend the same book, but as I scrolled down, there it was........It is a great book for what you want. But I also think the most important step in learning is just shooting, and shooting loads. Try many different settings of the same shot, write down your settings if you want, although you shouldn't have to as you can see the EXIF on the computer when viewing them. Just keep shooting and make sure you are conscious about what works and what doesn't work.

sla
05-15-2007, 02:39 AM
And about EXIF - looks like your uploaded photos contain no EXIF data. It's hard to believe that your Canon writes no EXIF. So the data must have been lost during processing (resizing or so).
Try to open your original straight out the camera photos and read EXIF from them.
regards
s.

FirehawkNS
05-15-2007, 06:54 PM
And about EXIF - looks like your uploaded photos contain no EXIF data. It's hard to believe that your Canon writes no EXIF. So the data must have been lost during processing (resizing or so).
Try to open your original straight out the camera photos and read EXIF from them.
regards
s.



I guess PS CS took it out when I did a save for web. I have looked over them on the originals.

Majik_Imaje
05-25-2007, 10:25 PM
well my "sig" says it all.. you gotta practice and read and practice and LEARN and this takes time. And in time I promise you, better exposures, better composition and much better photography as an Art form rather than just snap shots. This takes time to learn and to understand. but it comes to all that keep on keeping onward.

A passion an Obession that just won't quit. That is how I started out, then one day I found my self understanding more and my photos, started to sell.

I can tell you this in all honesty.. there are only 3 things that can happen basically when you squeeze that shutter release to create an image.

Too light Perfect Too Dark

Uisng photoshop you can employ real world darkroom techniques, such as in your first composition, the sky is terriffic, and the houses are too dark. so use your polygon tool and draw an outline around the whole dark area and lighten it up or just use a big brush and use "dodge" tool, practice and you will soon get the hang of it, but until you spend TIME in practicing these techniques you will never advance.

Understanding exposure is perhaps the first main goal to advance to. I have no idea what that book says, I have my own method that I have developed (pun intended)..

I quit using a light meter in 1973 and learned how to READ the light /subject relationship and it works for me, in any situation.

this is easy to learn, and it again it takes time to practcie. BECAUSE first you have to make the mistakes, so that you KNOW what NOT TO DO AGAIN.

I learned by memorizing ONE EV index or value

100 ISO SUNNY DAY - DISTINCT SHADOWS - side/front/side light.

125 sec. @ F 11 "will put you in the ball park" so to speak, Now learn how to read 'THAT LIGHT" and go from there one step at a time.

before we get into overcast days, first learn how to "shoot from the hip" on a sunny day.

Assignment:practice walking around looking at things close to you, filling the "frame" / viewfinder with detail.

COMPOSITION: how do you learn this ? Practice LOOKINGand studying EVERY IMAGE you see from now on. Chances are, it was taken by a pro if your looking at magazines, Movies, Pay attention to how "everything' is framed. this takes practice. Reading books will bore you to death on composition, and there are literally thousands of them out there. Learn by Looking.. ..

As you are 'walking" down the street, looking for something to photograph, you are already aware of your surroundings and your hand should be on that aperture ring so that WHEN you see something happen, you either OPEN or CLOSE or leave that aperture ring alone and -=[click]=- the image has been captured. taking time to "fiddle" about , will result in you loosing that IMPORTANT shot. So now you are practicing, so when that 'incident" happens you have been practicing for this for a long time and you become very good at doing this.

Understanding light / subject relationship(s) comes with much practice in various situations but now, YOUhave it very easy, you don't have to wait to process the film to see or show the customer, it all happens instantly.

IN other words this method will not take long for you to achieve, with a little practice.

Now let me show you ONE EV chart in full so that you understand where I am coming from: This is EV 15 and you will be easily able to memorize this chart just by knowinig one value.. and by knowing this one value. YOU can easily construct all 22 EV charts... right out of your head, using your fingers it is so easy to do...


EV 15 100 ISO


Shutter speed @ F stop

8000 @ F 1.4

4000 @ f 2.8

2000 @ F 4

1000 @ F 5.6

500 @ f 8

250 @ f 11

125 @ f 16

1/60 @ f 22

1/30 @ f 32

1/15 @ F 45

1/8 @ f 64

1/4 @ f90

1/2 @ F128

I have included numbers or aperture sizes you probablly will never see or use, but some day, you just never know.. so it doesn't hurt to understand the whole range

now, just by knowing that one value of 125 @ F16 you can construct the entire chart. so what is the difference between each Exposure Value ?

NONE... other than depth of field .. that is the only thing that changes when you take a pic at each one of those settings.

Now thatis for 100 ISO now lets construct 200 or 400 ISO


125@ f 22 = 200 iso 125 @ F 32 - 400 ISO

now that you see those numbers you can or should be able to build

the chart for 800 ISO which would start at

125 @ F 45

each increase in ISO = one F stop on your camera

100 - 200 = one stop 200 - 400 = one stop 400 - 800 = one stop

Learn how to read the light and use the correct EV value and you will gain immense experience in understanding how your camera works and how light works.

remember. only 3 things happen when you expose and create

either it is perfect or too light or too dark !! the rest is easy in photoshop

I sincierly hope some of this helped. Learn to shoot from the hip and get that photo quick. don't rely on meters all they can do is average any data that is given to the meter, you can do that also and much quicker than the meter can once you learn how to LOOK. and interpret what you are looking at,

You are only going to do one of two things, either open that lens or close that lens. you should already have your shutter speed and EV value in your head as you come upon ANY SCENE !

READ THE FINE PRINT !!:D

http://majikimaje.com/readf.jpg

FirehawkNS
05-25-2007, 10:36 PM
Awesome post Majik_Imaje Thanks!

A lot of what you are saying rings bells with whats told to me by friends who are into this hobby. I have found in the last few weeks things slowly clicking as I spend a couple of hours a day just walking and snapping. Helps that the wifes cousin is a professional photographer in Greece, so he sends me tips as I send him pics. :)

oh, and a lot of those pictures have been improved since I did some work in PS. I need to replace them, but my FTP is screwing up right now.

Majik_Imaje
05-25-2007, 11:06 PM
Well thanks for your comments I am glad I could "ring a few bells" so to speak:eek:

i have never had one class on photograhy ever, but I have taught in college, in schools and in Professoinal color labs in Boston.

I am just an Industrial electricain that was consumed by his "hobby" and as a hobby I made darn good money at it, enough in fact to retire very young!

I can easily show you how to make BIG BUCKS using photography, my methods are old but they still work no matter where you live.

One of my specailties was / is taking photos of complete strangers and then selling those images to complete strangers.

Some photographers like to charge huge prices for their work.

they put THEIR WORK in a category that many seasoned pro's use. I work the exact opposite.

I am working at a nuclear power plant under construction, the labor force was huge. 1000 workers of every craft known to man, 1000 fitters, 1000 laborers, etc. and about 20 crafts.. so more than 20,000 peope on this one job site. and that was just "CONSTRUCTION" personel. perhaps 10,000 or more in support workers, engineers, draftsmen, Quality control etc.

Anyway the point is.. I snuck my Mamiya RB 67 into work one day through metal detectors that were set high due to metal tool boxes and metal theroses.. each one of my friends carried one piece of that camera through for me, and the same when leaving

Lampson had a crane on that jobsite that could lift 1000 tons and move it anyplace. 2 million pounds in counter weights in huge concrete slabs on the back end for load weight balance.

this crane was 3 city blocks long and 7 miles of rigging that took 5 people to operate. I EXPOSED ONE FRAME OF FILM.

that is all, (1979 ) brought the roll home and processed it and went to work the next day with about 7 8 x 10 gorgeous color prints, I passed a few out to my friends for free, and one person said.. can I buy a copy of that ?

It was quite an impressive crane the size of which you can't possibly imagine.
I sold him one copy for ?? 3 bucks.

during the next 3 1/2 months I made over $12,000 from that one photograph!

selling prints for 3 bucks each !

I can show you many tricks for making money with your camera.

but everyone has the luxury of digital now - a - days.. so somethings I used to do won't work, because everyone has a camera .

Now you gotta do "something different' hmmm ??? what might that be ?

I only mention this because it might ring a bell or get you thinking.

Construction jobs are a great place to take and make money selling photographs, you have to be out of sight and not visible to the worker, but when he sees that final print.. oh he can't resist.. to purchase it especialy Iron workers walking the steel at high heights. Iron workers always buy at least a dozen ! ha ha.!

Back in 1973 I put an add in the news paper, Learn how to Print color.

8 week course print your very own color enlargements 200 bucks one night a week for 8 weeks. 200 covered everything for the 8 weeks

I wouldl give each student 8 rolls of film. during the 8 weeks they would print themselves about 50 - 75 8 x 10's 20 - 11 x 14's and about 10 - 16 x 20 prints all for 200 bucks which was a great bargin.

I had a huge color darkoom that could easily fit 5 people per night.

INSTANTLY I had $5,000 from 25 students.

I would purchase COLOR PAPER by the cases and cases and chemicals 20 gallons at a time or more.

I taught people how to print gorgeous color without them knowing hardly any color theory. that came later.

the very first thing I taught these rookies, complete rookies ranging from 4th grade up to 80 years young.
TURN OFF THAT LIGHT METER - read that light, start by reading and doing what it says on the inside of the film container box. just follow that and practice!

The results were totally spectacular!
by the seond or third class, they didnt need me in the darkroom any longer.

I always made big bucks doing this for many years. in Boston and out west and in Alaska.

Learn how to create masterpieces on a small scale.

walk around your house only, keep walking around your house until you find or SEE something small that you can fill that frame with detail and make something that might sell! it doesn't matter what it is.. learn how to look around the outside of your house!

36 exposures one roll of old fashioned film. walk aruond your house till you get a good number of images of something small, that fills the frame with detail,

Instead of taking a photo of your bike, break it down into "artistic" sections!
Part of the wheel, part of the chain assembly..FILL THE FRAME with DETAIL

Once you can do that effectively, then get a great photo printer,
in order to make money, you have to be able to do something that no one else can do.. (easily)

PRINTING COLOR for others is a great way to make money to pay for your next printer and loads of paper and ink! to practice with !!!



:D

r6isnum1
06-05-2007, 08:35 AM
I guess PS CS took it out when I did a save for web. I have looked over them on the originals.

if you save for web it does lose all the exif info... you can download this program that will give you a "right click view exif" option...

http://www.opanda.com/en/iexif/download.htm

Majik_Imaje
06-05-2007, 11:48 AM
Please do not take this the wrong way.. I am just trying to help..

It "appears" that YOU do NOT know WHAT.........you did.

Using film camera I always KNEW.. what was going on.. which F-stop and which shutter speed..before I captured that moment

but with digital I see from your statements.. you did not remember or know what you were taking pictures at. which settings..

this is backwards.. ! you need to know, BEFORE you create that image..

after,.. is just for reference I guess.. !

FirehawkNS
06-05-2007, 06:25 PM
You are mostly correct. I knew at the time what settings I was doing, I just didn't know if it was the right Settings to be using for the shot I was taking. I have gotten a little more practice though (mainly because I just got back from Washington DC where I took over 1700 pictures mostly in manual).

But, I learn better by seeing the results of my work and improving then reading book after book of info that for the most part won't make sense until I get out in the field. So I believe I did it the way I should be in order for me to learn.

Majik_Imaje
06-05-2007, 06:44 PM
Good for you !!! great.. now I can't wait to see some of your very best creations..you don't "shoot" you create!

use the proper terminology to stand away from the crowd so to speak..

"shooting a wedding" sounds violent..and unprofessional

Capturing and createing a lifetime of memories for newly weds ,

makes anyone understand that this is "special"

When i first got into photography.. I had to read the books first.. I could not even focus a camera correctly.. it took me a long time to learn.. when I used that spit image thingy.. my images were always out of focus soft.. instead of crisp and razor sharp..

It does not matter in which order you learn.. the important goal is to produce Colorful striking images wi/pleasing composition and subject matter.

F. A. S. T

FOCUS

APERTURE
SHUTTER


THINK

i HAVE my shutter all set. my aperture is always being adjusted as I am walking, so .. focus & squeeze. DON'T EVER PUSH.

take that breath, let half out. hold and squeeze. I do it all the time still.. when I create, which is seldom now due to disabilities.

Keep up the great work..

now learn to read that light and use your imagination & create.

John_Reed
06-05-2007, 06:46 PM
Please do not take this the wrong way.. I am just trying to help..

It "appears" that YOU do NOT know WHAT.........you did.

Using film camera I always KNEW.. what was going on.. which F-stop and which shutter speed..before I captured that moment

but with digital I see from your statements.. you did not remember or know what you were taking pictures at. which settings..

this is backwards.. ! you need to know, BEFORE you create that image..

after,.. is just for reference I guess.. !Most digital cameras these days mask what the "settings" are before one shoots an image. As the description goes, you just "point and shoot." After the fact, one can review the captured image, and I usually will adjust EV level to make the image more satisfactory if I shoot it again, say, with a negative exposure bias because I thought the first image was overly bright. Unless one is using a DSLR, having really tight control over aperture, shutterspeed, ISO, etc. is something largely left to the camera, to varying extents, depending on the particular camera. These "smart cameras" may or may not make choices as well as you can, based on your long experience.

Majik_Imaje
06-05-2007, 07:03 PM
I don't know very much about digital cameras at all especially the pro 35mm high end capable units.. but the more I learn about how they operate..the less I lke the idea of a camera making or over-riding the choices I want to use.

The more I look at digital images, the less I like them..yes they are exposed nicely and the colors are just great.. razor sharp but.. they look.. too magaziney. too perfect, like a ?? Digital lacks the "soul" that only film can capture. that I can see.. as plain as day .. Film can "see" colors that the human eye, (& digital) can't see.

I am seriouly wanting to build another Color Darkroom. with 4 x 5 or 8 x 10 negs.. out on the ocean ice..

Maybe next year.!

John_Reed
06-06-2007, 02:19 PM
I rather felt this bird photo showed some soul. It's straight from the camera, not cropped or otherwise post-processed. Agree or disagree?

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/139642641-L.jpg

The bird is a Black-Crowned Night Heron, photographed with a Panasonic DMC-FZ30, with a Nikon 1.7X telephoto extender added on, for a total of 909mm of focal length, in archaic 35mm terms. The photo was shot handheld at 1/320, f5.6, ISO 80, with an exposure bias of -.66 EV

dtarrance
06-07-2007, 12:55 PM
Very nice photo John! The contrast of the relatively black/gray/white surrounding the red eye is certainly an attention grabber!

Out of curiosity, which teleconverter lens did you use for that camera? From the google searches I performed, all I found was the "telephoto extender" which goes between a DSLR camera and the lens you choose. This, obviously, will not work with a fixed lens camera like the DMC-FZ30. Could you post a link, or the actual name of the lens? I'd certainly appreciate it!

Bill Markwick
06-08-2007, 08:00 AM
I rather felt this bird photo showed some soul.

The bird is a Black-Crowned Night Heron

John, that picture is superb. DSLR quality, and all the more remarkable for being handheld at such a long focal length.

Whether the photo shows any soul I couldn't say, but there might be some sole in the bird. :p

Regards,
Bill

FirehawkNS
06-08-2007, 04:47 PM
That is an awesome photo!!

Majik_Imaje
06-08-2007, 05:17 PM
Absolutely amazing and fantastic image, no doubt about it.

Now, educate me please, is the name of this thread

NOW , WHAT you gonna do with this image ?

I would go to Barnes & Noble: get a copy of PHotographers Market Book.

DID YOU KNOW? companies like Adobe, corel, Hallmark, and thousands more. Purchase images such as this for $ big bucks. But selling your images is not the way to go, So you want to learn how to LEASE your images. for these big companies.. A.S.M.P. rates are approximately $1,500 for a magazine cover.

There is much to learn, outside of "creating" that spectacular image your always striving for, now... .. how to sell it ?

Learn how to 'SUBMIT" to companies using delivery memo's !

GOOD LUCK I can't wait to hear.. what happens.. .. soon ! :D

John_Reed
06-08-2007, 09:50 PM
Very nice photo John! The contrast of the relatively black/gray/white surrounding the red eye is certainly an attention grabber!

Out of curiosity, which teleconverter lens did you use for that camera? From the google searches I performed, all I found was the "telephoto extender" which goes between a DSLR camera and the lens you choose. This, obviously, will not work with a fixed lens camera like the DMC-FZ30. Could you post a link, or the actual name of the lens? I'd certainly appreciate it!The extender is a rather heavy piece of glass called the "Nikon TC-E17ED," a 1.7X extender that screws on to the front of my FZ30 through a 55-60mm step-up ring. I think Nikon originally made these things for their CoolPix 8800, but those aren't common anymore, and I think the TC is out of print; they're very difficult to find these days, and expensive when you do find them. But according to C.K. Shene, a student of what's available out there in lensville, this Nikon lens is about as good as TCs get, in terms of sharpness, low distortion, etc. Check C.K.'s Digital Camera page (http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/index.html) for more details on this and other alternative lenses.

AtlPikMan
07-10-2007, 03:33 PM
Wow, Incredible photo John...Guys you got another Newbie here eager to learn.