Nikon D80 | New addition

[aparmley]

So my new toys arrived yesterday! :D

http://parmley.smugmug.com/photos/143705319-L.jpg

http://parmley.smugmug.com/photos/143633226-L.jpg

Yep those are my images - The dark side. No 70-200 F2.8 IS for me. Why not? Before I start spending, no no no, investing serious money in Canon I want to know, for sure, what I'm missing if I stay with Canon. I've been dying to find out what its like to shoot with a Nikon, not just hold one in the store or rent one for the weekend. I want to know what its like, day in and out to shoot with the Nikon system and see what fits me, my personality, and my style best. I've had this burning curiousity right after I bought my rebel XT. I found myself in a position which affords me the opportunity to try Nikon and whatever I decide I'm fine with taking whatever loss on the gear I sell knowing that I will be using the system I choose after shooting with each for a period of time. The system that works best for me is what I'll be using and I'm excited because it won't be just because I just picked one - it will be based on my experience.

Well there you have it.

So far what do I think? I choose the D80 because it had 90% of what I wanted for about 60% of the cost (vs the D200 - drool). The remaining 10% of functionality might not be utilized all the time. Thus making it an opportunity cost I am willing to absorb. As you can tell by my second photo above I'm really liking the wireless capabilities right out of the box with the SB-800 + D80's flash in commander mode - its so nice. Speaking of the flash - Its a great size not too small but not huge like the 550 EX. It came with a padded case which puts Canon's (550EX) case to shame. It also came with a diffuser dome - like the stofens. It came with two colored gel inserts and a quick recycling battery pack - which allows you to add a 5th AA batter to improve recycle times. All for about 80 bucks less than the 580EX.

I love the grip - its better for me than the 30D. It has more finger tip room if you know what I mean by that. I love the built in screen protector - such a great addition. The D80 has a very solid feel to it despite being a plastic body. It feels good in your hands. PLus the view finder is a little bigger which is nice.

HIGH ISO Performance. . .

This where the Canon shines. But, I have to say, Nikon has closed the gap in this respect. Acceptable by my standards.

Nikon ISO 1600 50mm f2.8

http://parmley.smugmug.com/photos/143726394-L.jpg

Canon ISO 1600 50mm F2.8

http://parmley.smugmug.com/photos/143726381-L.jpg

I'm enjoying it so far. . . The weather didn't cooperate with me today - cold and rainy. Stay tuned for more. Thanks.

[cdifoto]

This is a friggin' shock. Never saw it coming! :eek: I call dibs on your EF primes. :D




Can't wait to see Coldy's response! :D

[aparmley]

This is a friggin' shock. Never saw it coming! :eek: :D

I know right. I never have both cameras out at the same time. They don't know about each others existence yet, shhhhhhh! :o I don't know how to break it to the 30D, I mean shes been a big part of my life up until now. I'm curious what can I say Don. :D

I call dibs on your EF primes.

LMAO - I haven't decided yet - patience.


Can't wait to see Coldy's response! :D

He'd love Nikon's. He's a future Nikon owner if I ever saw one. ;)

[cdifoto]

I know right. I never have both cameras out at the same time. They don't know about each others existence yet, shhhhhhh! :o I don't know how to break it to the 30D, I mean shes been a big part of my life up until now. I'm curious what can I say Don. :D

Haha Cheater! I'm gonna call that TV show investigator guy and show your 30D the video. :eek: :p

LMAO - I haven't decided yet - patience.

Haha I'm kidding. Although if the price was right and I needed them I'd probably take 'em off your hands. :o

He'd love Nikon's. He's a future Nikon owner if I ever saw one. ;)

Haha no doubt. I think he's a closet Nikonian.

[achuang]

This was totally unexpected, never thought you were that curious about the "dark side". Well I guess I'm like you except opposite. I'm using nikon but want to try canon....though I can't do that for a few years. The wireless capability is one great thing about nikon...very easy to setup. Enjoy the new system.

[fionndruinne]

In regards to high ISO performance, I've seen better things from my D40 than the XTi. I suppose this is due to the fact that a 6.1 megapixel sensor has better noise performance than a 10.1 MP sensor. But as far as Nikon closing the gap, they certainly did so with the D40 - I get beautiful pictures half the time using 1600. I wonder how the D40x will perform.

[swgod98]

Interesting thread. I too have access to both a Canon (20D in this case) and D80. But, I don't have decent lenses/flash/etc for the 20D like I do for the D80.

One question I have is: Why is Nikon the Dark Side? Isn't Canon the big bad Empire of all camera manufacturers? Nikon, to me, seems to be the rebellion...the smaller manufacturer trying to overcome the giant!

*shrug*

:D

[cdifoto]

One question I have is: Why is Nikon the Dark Side? Isn't Canon the big bad Empire of all camera manufacturers? Nikon, to me, seems to be the rebellion...the smaller manufacturer trying to overcome the giant!

*shrug*

:D

Nikon is the dark side to Canonites and Canon is the dark side to Nikonians. It's a relative term.


And then there are people like Jamie and Andrew up there....black all over.

[achuang]

I thought nikon was the dark side because most of their lenses are black, with the rare greyish/white lens. But canon is the light side because of all their white lenses.

[timmciglobal]

You pervert. Shooting with your canon all day then coming home to a nikon you don't really love.... and romancing it with some in-a-jar italian dinner?

I thought better of you Sir.

Tim

[rawpaw18]

Andy,
Looks like you will having a lot fun doing your "experiment"
playing with two setups at the same time.

Camera settings cause that much variation in you sauce shots?
I like the colors in the Nikon better, ISO looks pretty good.
I thought peanut butter was your subject of choice,
behind Cooper of cousre.

[coldrain]

He'd love Nikon's. He's a future Nikon owner if I ever saw one. ;)
In fact he always has owned Nikon, shooting with this Nikkormat FTn before you ever touched a camera :eek: :D

btw: the shot is an unprocessed (except scaling and 80/0.5/0 USM) ISO 800, 78mm, f6.3, 1/60 sec out of camera JPEG, no noise reduction or anything else applied.

[swgod98]

Shooting with your canon all day then coming home to a nikon

Can't a man have a girlfriend AND a wife? :D

[RichNY]

I've got no problem with the Nikon but I can't get by the commercial sauce in a jar- that is sacreligous!

To quote a line from Anthony Soprano, "He's a weekend WAP- He eats his Sunday sauce out of a jar" :)

I'm looking forward to hearing your findings also before I start investing too much into Canon. Although to be fair to Nikon, you and Jamie aren't comparing Apples to Apples with the D80 v. the 30Ds- the D200 is really the camera that is most like our 30Ds.

I know from playing around with my friend's D200 that when it comes to just enjoyment shooting I'd take a D200 over my 1D Mark IIN any day- it just feels better.

Congrats with your new tool. I'm sure that whatever you learn it will fun a fun process.

[aparmley]

I've got no problem with the Nikon but I can't get by the commercial sauce in a jar- that is sacreligous!

To quote a line from Anthony Soprano, "He's a weekend WAP- He eats his Sunday sauce out of a jar" :)

I'm looking forward to hearing your findings also before I start investing too much into Canon. Although to be fair to Nikon, you and Jamie aren't comparing Apples to Apples with the D80 v. the 30Ds- the D200 is really the camera that is most like our 30Ds.

I know from playing around with my friend's D200 that when it comes to just enjoyment shooting I'd take a D200 over my 1D Mark IIN any day- it just feels better.

Congrats with your new tool. I'm sure that whatever you learn it will fun a fun process.

I know rich right, I wanted to pick up the D200 its a kick ass camera. But, I think the d80 is all I need. I put the ~600 right into the SB-800 + 50 1.4

[jamison55]

Hey Andy - welcome to the swingin' BI lifestyle! That's a fine mistress you've got there, the body design and bells and whistles really put Canon to shame...and the SB800, what a flash! Can't wait to see more Nikon stuff! I'm especially interested because you are RAW guy...interested to see if you notice much of a difference in the color, etc...

(PS - Have you joined Nikonians yet?)

[aparmley]

Hey Andy - welcome to the swingin' BI lifestyle! That's a fine mistress you've got there, the body design and bells and whistles really put Canon to shame...and the SB800, what a flash! Can't wait to see more Nikon stuff! I'm especially interested because you are RAW guy...interested to see if you notice much of a difference in the color, etc...

Thanks for the warm welcome Jamie. I'm really liking the D80. I shot a few in RAW but I'm loving how it processes JPEGs. Color is a little off from my Canon files but I plan on doing a little more comparison today on RAW v NEF. I'm enjoying the D80 and from what I'm seeing its more a lateral move from my 30D.

[timmciglobal]

Oh and don't put the D200 "on par" with 30D, in everything but FPS the d80 competes very well with the 30D.

The d200 imho is an odd "middle" camera, not quite prosumer but not quite pro. I'd love if canon made a between 30D and 1d body too.

Tim

[RichNY]

But, I think the d80 is all I need.
If we only bought what we needed there would be no way in hell I'd have a 1D in my sig line :) Come to think of it, I could probably scratch off most of the rest of that line also.

[coldrain]

HIGH ISO Performance. . .

This where the Canon shines. But, I have to say, Nikon has closed the gap in this respect. Acceptable by my standards.


The Nikon D80 seems veru de-saturated though, I can not imagine that the label is supposed to look that way. Seems like the D80's JPEG/de-noise processing at ISO 1600 does rob quite some of the saturation?

[fionndruinne]

... the D80 with that prime lens looks plain sexy (and I seldom use that term!). Nice photo, by the way.

... acceptable to give Canons the honor of photographing Nikon cameras! :D

[cdifoto]

I'd love if canon made a between 30D and 1d body too.

It's called a 5D. :D :p

[cdifoto]

The Nikon D80 seems veru de-saturated though, I can not imagine that the label is supposed to look that way. Seems like the D80's JPEG/de-noise processing at ISO 1600 does rob quite some of the saturation?

What are you smokin'? If anything, the Canon is the one that's desaturated, but it did better with the shadow under the shelving, IMHO.

[coldrain]

What are you smokin'? If anything, the Canon is the one that's desaturated, but it did better with the shadow under the shelving, IMHO.
Yes, you are right of course, the browser window was a tad small and I saw "Canon" under the Nikon shot.

So... The Canon shot seems very undersaturated though. I can't imagine the label really looks that way. What is causing the very undersaturated look? Are the JPEG image settings set that way, or does your 30D do that with ISO 1600/noise?

[cdifoto]

Yes, you are right of course, the browser window was a tad small and I saw "Canon" under the Nikon shot.

So... The Canon shot seems very undersaturated though. I can't imagine the label really looks that way. What is causing the very undersaturated look? Are the JPEG image settings set that way, or does your 30D do that with ISO 1600/noise?

I was gonna say Coldy...get outta Amsterdam and get some fresh air...or at least share! :eek: :p :D

[aparmley]

Yes, you are right of course, the browser window was a tad small and I saw "Canon" under the Nikon shot.

So... The Canon shot seems very undersaturated though. I can't imagine the label really looks that way. What is causing the very undersaturated look? Are the JPEG image settings set that way, or does your 30D do that with ISO 1600/noise?

Both Cameras were shot in default jpeg modes and remained untouched. Straight from camera to web. I think we are looking at different approaches to in-camera processing. Nothing to get worked up about. . . I think a move of a slider and we're all square again. But, I have found my Canon to be very undersaturated across the board - in JPEG and RAW - RAW I can sorta understand but JPEG? No hair off my back though. . .

[Rooz]

i think in fairness, the d80 is great producer of the warm tones, especially reds. the red i get out of the d80 is RED...sometimes distractingly so. would be interesting to see the saturation differences in cooler blues and greens to see if that is consistent.

[Lilchilichoco]

Hi guys...while you are at saturation....I wonder what do you think of the saturation in out-of-the-box Pentax colours......this is a JPEG shot.



23352


What would you put the colors closer to....Canon or Nikon?


Thanks and Best Regards

[Geoff Chandler]

Now I am only guessing here - but I guess those 2 piccies were in Auto WB on both cameras??

For my taste the D80 IS too red in Auto WB most of the time and, again, most of the time the colour is better balanced in daylight/sunshine WB.
There again - we are only taking about default settings - I don't know the exact setup on the Canon - but both cameras do have fine tuning that can be used. I love the WB fine tuning on the D80 as each WB setting can be tweaked individually (front controler).
I would be interested to ask aparmley which of the 2 shots, in his opinion and with the benefit of seeing the orig subject, is nearer to correct? - straight out ouf the camera.
Having put the D80 Auto WB down - I must say it copes extreemly well with difficult and mixed lighting. As for that red? I just dial in a little extra blue which mostly does the trick.

So, Lilchilichoco, your Pentax colours - well I was impressed with that camera too when I was choosing a DSLR! - I think a sweeping judgement would be that where the Nikon is a touch red - the Pentax is a touch yellow, and the Canon maybe a touch bluey green??? Putting my neck on the block.

[Lilchilichoco]

So Geoff ,I understand that if white balance has been tweaked for a shot then it would not be called straight out of the box shot? In that case I am posting the one in AWB of the same flower. The previous one was in Tungsten. I think I do see the yellow tinge there. Saturation was at 0 in both shots. The light source is indoor lighting at a mall.

23353

So basically all three cameras fall in separate categories regarding color saturation?

Thanks and Best Regards

[Rooz]

Now I am only guessing here - but I guess those 2 piccies were in Auto WB on both cameras??

For my taste the D80 IS too red in Auto WB most of the time and, again, most of the time the colour is better balanced in daylight/sunshine WB.
There again - we are only taking about default settings - I don't know the exact setup on the Canon - but both cameras do have fine tuning that can be used. I love the WB fine tuning on the D80 as each WB setting can be tweaked individually (front controler).

i agree. thats what i was saying. sometimes when you want it, the red is brilliant, but there are other times it can be distracting and needs some tweaking so as not to overpower the rets of the colour range. not sure what colours the other sensors pick up but red seems to be something the d80 likes to produce in spades.

[Lilchilichoco]

aparmley......what do you think?



Best Regards

[aparmley]

Now I am only guessing here - but I guess those 2 piccies were in Auto WB on both cameras??


I would be interested to ask aparmley which of the 2 shots, in his opinion and with the benefit of seeing the orig subject, is nearer to correct? - straight out ouf the camera.

Having put the D80 Auto WB down - I must say it copes extreemly well with difficult and mixed lighting. As for that red? I just dial in a little extra blue which mostly does the trick.



Hi Geoff. Yes, you are correct - both images created using both systems default JPEG settings. I had grown used to the Canon's slight desaturation of colors and I really forgot about it until comparing it with the D80. In my honest opinion the D80 reproduced the colors in that setting more accurately. In my experience this weekend outdoors both cameras rendered a slightly cooler WB with the 30D being slightly more cool than the D80. Both improved with a small increase in warmth via the WB slider in Lightroom. Again, neither one is bad really, more simply one I find a little more pleasing than the other (D80).

[Geoff Chandler]

i agree. thats what i was saying. sometimes when you want it, the red is brilliant, but there are other times it can be distracting and needs some tweaking so as not to overpower the rets of the colour range. not sure what colours the other sensors pick up but red seems to be something the d80 likes to produce in spades.

I don't find the red too much in Daylight WB
However - Auto will adjust and is easy for some - whereas other WB settings are fixed colour temps
On a Dull day like my example the Auto can be a help.
LH = Auto WB D80; RH = Daylight WB D80

[aparmley]

aparmley......what do you think?



Best Regards

to my eyes on this monitor the saturation appears fine to me, there is a high level of reflected light which is a little distracting - but overall colors look fine.

[Rooz]

what...no sun in Surrey mate ? i can't believe it. :D

[some guy]

I wish Canon makes good flash and their semi-pro dSLRs will come with onboard flash triggers. Good buy aparmley. the d80 is not a bad camera at all. However soon you will have to take sides. Maintaining two different format photography equipment is mucho dineros!

[aparmley]

I wish Canon makes good flash and their semi-pro dSLRs will come with onboard flash triggers. Good buy aparmley. the d80 is not a bad camera at all. However soon you will have to take sides. Maintaining two different format photography equipment is mucho dineros!

Tell me about it man! I have parvulo deniro (?). It is a pretty damn good camera. I'm working on a write up but I've found myself stuck in describing what the Nikon is like to use compared to the Canon. . . Its requires delicate diction.

I think I know which road I'll be taking. It was an easy decision.

[cdifoto]

Tell me about it man! I have parvulo deniro (?). It is a pretty damn good camera. I'm working on a write up but I've found myself stuck in describing what the Nikon is like to use compared to the Canon. . . Its requires delicate diction.

I think I know which road I'll be taking. It was an easy decision.

Ready to unload those primes dirt cheap? :D

[aparmley]

Ready to unload those primes dirt cheap? :D

I'm going to give it a little more time. I mean I think I know which road I'm taking but I want to be sure so I'm going to take it slow - I don't want to get hurt again :rolleyes: Mwahahahahha

But hey man. . . I don't know if/when I let my primes go that they'll go dirt cheap. . . .but maybe a combo deal can be reached. :confused:

[cdifoto]

I'm going to give it a little more time. I mean I think I know which road I'm taking but I want to be sure so I'm going to take it slow - I don't want to get hurt again :rolleyes: Mwahahahahha

But hey man. . . I don't know if/when I let my primes go that they'll go dirt cheap. . . .but maybe a combo deal can be reached. :confused:

Hah I'm kidding. I wouldn't expect dirt cheap but I'm holding off on the primage for awhile anyway. Unless the timing is just right...ie a paid gig where I need them, and you being ready to sell.

[some guy]

These days lots of people flip back on forth on photography systems. I generally leech off these people when they switch around. :D

[cdifoto]

These days lots of people flip back on forth on photography systems. I generally leech off these people when they switch around. :D

I'm starting to leech off the geargeeks that never shoot pictures but always have to have the latest thing, and retired teachers who only ever shoot landscapes but buy 1D's and learn quickly that they're overkill.


Works for me...:D

[Nickcanada]

Dang it! You just threw a wrench in my 'gear career' thread!

I'll have to go rework it! I have been wanting a wireless flash system.... this might be a cheep alternative!....

who am I kidding. I can spend more of my money on the Canon side, with all of their L primes! Ohhh, L lenses.... *drool* and FF cameras, more *drool*

I'll be fallowing this thread closely.

[Geoff Chandler]

I am actually quite suprised by this corse of events!
Both these cameras are, I thought, very good each with it's own
little extra benefit here or there - but overall I thought they were
fairly equal. Yes I did choose the D80, I prefered the feel basically, and yes I prefered the viewfinder slightly, and I liked the look of the photos though I can't really fault the 30D quality either. I am sure if I owned a 30D I would find my way with it.
Aparmley - do you really prefer the D80 that much??

[aparmley]

How much is "that much" Goeff? More to the point, how much is just enough? Just speaking off the top of my head heres what has me leaning towards the D80 right now:


I like the viewfinder a lot more than the 30D's.
I like the way you change the focus point better than the 30D's way - I change it all the time.
I like the addition of a built in focus assist lamp and I use it, a lot.
I like the wireless flash capabilities - I'd much rather control two external flashes wirelessly than have one of those mounted on my camera - much more flexible.
I really like the files that come out of the D80 - I've cut down my processing time (and I'm a RAW guy thats been shooting mostly JPEGS with it).
Auto WB has been a lot more accurate for me.
Camera's meter has been a lot more accurate and more intuitive for me.


Some of this items like the JPEG/RAW and WB and meter I need to test further, results thus far support my comments above - but I want to be sure. I think I like Nikons 50mm 1.4 performance better than Canon's 50mm 1.4. Thats just off the top of my head.

[Geoff Chandler]

How much is "that much" Goeff? More to the point, how much is just enough? Just speaking off the top of my head heres what has me leaning towards the D80 right now:


I like the viewfinder a lot more than the 30D's.
I like the way you change the focus point better than the 30D's way - I change it all the time.
I like the addition of a built in focus assist lamp and I use it, a lot.
I like the wireless flash capabilities - I'd much rather control two external flashes wirelessly than have one of those mounted on my camera - much more flexible.
I really like the files that come out of the D80 - I've cut down my processing time (and I'm a RAW guy thats been shooting mostly JPEGS with it).
Auto WB has been a lot more accurate for me.
Camera's meter has been a lot more accurate and more intuitive for me.


Some of this items like the JPEG/RAW and WB and meter I need to test further, results thus far support my comments above - but I want to be sure. I think I like Nikons 50mm 1.4 performance better than Canon's 50mm 1.4. Thats just off the top of my head.

As long as it's off the top of your head and it's not 'out of your head; we're talking about :)
We'll - that sound's quite a convincing list of reasons in fact!
I have not used RAW - to much extra work - so I am glad you say the JPG's are good on the D80.
I agree about the viewfinder - though I have only looked briefly a couple of times.
Focus assist is handy - that's true..
I haven't bought an external flash as yet - but I am plesantly suprised at the onboard flash.
I am suprised about the Auto WB - I found this saturated the reds too much when I first tried the camera - though I have found situations, now, where it was helpfull. Also I tuned a couple of notches in the direction of blue on the Auto WB which helps. Mostly I use daylight WB but need to be aware that it is not always the best option.
As for the Canon - it's a bit wider and I felt the shape of the D80 was better for me -
I wasn't too sure about the round wheel on the back - I prefered the two command dials on the D80
Whilst the Canon menu system is not unlike the one I was used to on my A-200, I really quite like the nice menus on the D80, also the screen with it's cover.
So
Please let us know any more findings and conclusions you come to.
cheers

Geoff
Have you played with the colourspace otions yet??

[aparmley]

OH ya - thanks for reminding me - the LCD cover - while not a deal breaker for most, and trust me it isn't for me either, its such a great addition - its these little things that are really impressing me. For instance, the dome, gel inserts, and the very nice case that is included with the SB-800, and the addition of the optional 5th AA battery holder for improved recycle times. Its the little things across the board that are adding up for me.

[jamison55]

Nikon certainly does know how to deck out their stuff. I too was impressed with all of the little extras that were packaged in with the body and flash.

You didn't mention the gridlines in the viewfinder yet. I hate it when my photos are off square (unless I intend them to be) so that was one of my favorite features! I have to spend $35 each and do surgery on my lovelies to get that same functionality in my 5Ds.

I know you're probably browsing the FM boards to see what new lenses you can buy for that baby. In my limited experience I found the Tamron 17-50 to be really nice on the D80 - af was pretty dang accurate BC the focus motor is in the body, and the glass was sharp. I also had the 85 f1.8. It was a good lens, but lacked a bit of the sharpness and the beautiful bokeh of the Canon counterpart. From what I hear from my Nikon buddies, the 85 f1.4 is the lens that does it for them (and it's a bit less expensive that the Canon 85 f1.2)...

[coldrain]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Jamison tried the D80 too, and the thing that made him choose the Canon (5D in this case) is the quality of the JPEG. He IS a JPEG man, and he found the detail munching at ISO 400 and above (and to a lesser extent the colour "balance"?) a bit disappointing on the D80.

Aparmely, I do not understand why you have the Canon on its standard settings when you do not like the standard settings, if you would set them in a more to your liking way, would that not eliminate the same post processing "hastle"?
I shoot mostly JPEG too, and I have my 350D set to Contrast +1, Sharpness +1, Saturation +1 most of the time.

[RichNY]

The two pieces of Nikon glass I'd most like to see in the Canon lineup are the 18-200VR and the 200-400.

[coldrain]

The 6 pieces of Canon glass I would most want to see in the Nikon line up are the 17-55 f2.8 IS USM, 10-22 f3.5-4.5 USM, 70-200 f4 L IS USM and 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM, 100mm f2.8 USM Macro and 180mm f3.5 L USM Macro :D

[aparmley]

Aparmely, I do not understand why you have the Canon on its standard settings when you do not like the standard settings, if you would set them in a more to your liking way, would that not eliminate the same post processing "hastle"?
I shoot mostly JPEG too, and I have my 350D set to Contrast +1, Sharpness +1, Saturation +1 most of the time.

Good Idea I'll try that.

[jamison55]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Jamison tried the D80 too, and the thing that made him choose the Canon (5D in this case) is the quality of the JPEG. He IS a JPEG man, and he found the detail munching at ISO 400 and above (and to a lesser extent the colour "balance"?) a bit disappointing on the D80.

Aparmely, I do not understand why you have the Canon on its standard settings when you do not like the standard settings, if you would set them in a more to your liking way, would that not eliminate the same post processing "hastle"?
I shoot mostly JPEG too, and I have my 350D set to Contrast +1, Sharpness +1, Saturation +1 most of the time.


You come on pretty strong there coldy!

It boils down to this. The Nikon D80 was a superior body to my 20D/30D, and even my 5Ds...but I personally like the "film" a little better in the Canon! It's really a personal preference - just like some people prefer Fuji Velvia, and other people prefer Fuji NPS.

[cdifoto]

Mmmm Velveeta....

[RichNY]

Jamie- It was great reading your comments after testing and working with the D80. Considering you preferred the Nikon body better than the Canon do you think the D2XS image quality would have moved you permenantly to the Nikon camp. (seems to be a better comparison to the 5D than the D80).

I keep hearing voices in my head telling me to switch camps. The IIN made them go away for a bit but the siren keeps calling. Right now I'm still the weak link in my gear so I'm continuing to click away and learn.

You come on pretty strong there coldy!

It boils down to this. The Nikon D80 was a superior body to my 20D/30D, and even my 5Ds...but I personally like the "film" a little better in the Canon! It's really a personal preference - just like some people prefer Fuji Vevlia, and other people prefer Fuji NPS.

[coldrain]

Jamie- It was great reading your comments after testing and working with the D80. Considering you preferred the Nikon body better than the Canon do you think the D2XS image quality would have moved you permenantly to the Nikon camp. (seems to be a better comparison to the 5D than the D80).

I keep hearing voices in my head telling me to switch camps. The IIN made them go away for a bit but the siren keeps calling. Right now I'm still the weak link in my gear so I'm continuing to click away and learn.
The D2Xs is nothing like the 5D... the 5D is like the D80 and 30D actually.
The D2Xs is comparable to the 1D and 1Ds.
Why would the JPEG image quality of the D2Xs be better than that of the D80? Or of the D200? Maybe it is, but why would you assume it is? If anything, the D2Xs's noise performance is not better but worse than the D80. And I have no idea why they would put sub standard image processing in the D80 and D200 if they can do it right with the D2X?

The reason why the Canon models perform differently is because of the different sensors and sensor sizes. Not the processing. And the D2Xs is known for a lot of nice things, just not Canon beating image quality.

[RichNY]

Coldy- Hey, no lip from you. I was all excited to be buying a D80 before it was announced this summer before you swung me over to the Canon camp before it shippped ;):D

[RichNY]

Coldy- Hey, no lip from you. I was all excited to be buying a D80 before it was announced this summer before you swung me over to the Canon camp before it shippped ;):D

As for comparing the cameras, Jamie is a professional wedding photographer and I think it is VERY fair to compare Nikon's best wedding camera (D2XS)against Canon's (5D).

[jamison55]

Jamie- It was great reading your comments after testing and working with the D80. Considering you preferred the Nikon body better than the Canon do you think the D2XS image quality would have moved you permenantly to the Nikon camp. (seems to be a better comparison to the 5D than the D80).

Nope - I have friends who shoot with d2x's and it's still the same brand of film :D. And I agree with coldy that the 5D is nothing more than a gorgeous sensor fit into a 30D body. The Nikon D80...heck even the D70, is probably apples to apples body wise. The D200 (I shot the Boston Marathon with one of those on Monday) is in a slightly higher league - like if Canon put out the much-web-rumored EOS 3 equivalent body. But again, they all shoot the same film (actually one of my buddies who shoots weddings with a D2x bought a d80 for his wife to second shoot - and he prefers the files from the D80 - he's a jpeg shooter like me).

I keep hearing voices in my head telling me to switch camps. The IIN made them go away for a bit but the siren keeps calling. Right now I'm still the weak link in my gear so I'm continuing to click away and learn.

You'll never silence those voices until you do it for yourself. My little experiment cost me a grand total of $200 after I sold all of the Nikon gear (I actually made a profit on the 85 f1.8, which I picked up for a song). For that $200 "rental fee" I got to try out the Nikon system for 3 months, and use it on 4 portrait sessions, 3 weddings, and 2 family vacations, in addition to the day to day shooting. In all but the family vacations, I shot it side by side with my Canon bodies so I got a really good idea of how they both performed in identical situations. It was invaluable to me in actually defining why I use the system that I do. Life is short man - experiment with the bi lifestyle!

And "best wedding camera" is purely subjective. Ask 100 different photographers and you'll get 50 different answers!

Sorry to Hijack Andy, back to wowing us with your new baby!

[cdifoto]

And "best wedding camera" is purely subjective. Ask 100 different photographers and you'll get 50 different answers!

I say more like 51. Some crackpot is bound to say Pentax just to be a smartass. :eek: :p





KIDDING all you Pentaxians...I'm sure they would be fine for a wedding too, despite what Coldy and Tim say! :D

[coldrain]

Coldy- Hey, no lip from you. I was all excited to be buying a D80 before it was announced this summer before you swung me over to the Canon camp before it shippped ;):D
you swung yourself over, mister :p
And besides... to me lenses and sensor output matter a tad more than a body. You had the chance to try out both bodies, and both bodies are good.
But... you would not have had this 10-22mm USM... not this 17-55 IS USM... not that 100-400.

The Nikon 80-400 has softness issues at 400mm, much more than the Canon. And that is to a lesser extent even true of the Nikon 70-200 VR. And even the 17-55 f2.8 DX shows a bit of resolution loss towards the long end. And some CA too.

So... nice that Andy likes the D80 body. But there is more to the whole system. So, there are very good arguments to choose a Canon system, as there are for a Nikon system.

[cwphoto]

How much is "that much" Goeff? More to the point, how much is just enough? Just speaking off the top of my head heres what has me leaning towards the D80 right now:


I like the viewfinder a lot more than the 30D's.
I like the way you change the focus point better than the 30D's way - I change it all the time.
I like the addition of a built in focus assist lamp and I use it, a lot.
I like the wireless flash capabilities - I'd much rather control two external flashes wirelessly than have one of those mounted on my camera - much more flexible.
I really like the files that come out of the D80 - I've cut down my processing time (and I'm a RAW guy thats been shooting mostly JPEGS with it).
Auto WB has been a lot more accurate for me.
Camera's meter has been a lot more accurate and more intuitive for me.


Some of this items like the JPEG/RAW and WB and meter I need to test further, results thus far support my comments above - but I want to be sure. I think I like Nikons 50mm 1.4 performance better than Canon's 50mm 1.4. Thats just off the top of my head.

Oh shit. :eek:

[Geoff Chandler]

If you are shooting in JPG (which I do) then you will no doubt need to experiment with the settings as pointed out earlier.
I would suggest Aparmley does this for both cameras once his 'at default settings' experiments are finished, just to see how good , in his opinion, he can get them to look in their own right.
I have mine +2 sharpness, -1 Contrast, normal vividness, still playing with colourspace - but leaning towards type3.
It's all good fun at the end of the day.

Hey - I am just off for my 25th anniversary holiday in Reykjavik - see you all later - hopefully with a few more photos to share
Geoff

[aparmley]

Oh shit. :eek:

:confused: What ? ? ?

[RichNY]

Life is short man - experiment with the bi lifestyle!


I'm already swinging both ways: 1.6x and 1.3x ;) :D

"Nope - I have friends who shoot with d2x's and it's still the same brand of film"

Are you saying that for your type of shooting this camera's image quality/feature set didn't give you much more than the D80?

[cwphoto]

:confused: What ? ? ?

I don't need to hear all those positive comments about a system I don't have! :eek:

[Rooz]

I don't need to hear all those positive comments about a system I don't have! :eek:

this coming from a guy that has a 1D, please understand me that i mean no offence when i say that you need a slap. :D

[aparmley]

I don't need to hear all those positive comments about a system I don't have! :eek:

Hey man - Nikon will have to be represented in your business - Maybe you'll need a Nikon rep to run that side of the biz. . . relocation expenses will only cost you a case of ice cold beer!

[Honest Gaza]

I don't need to hear all those positive comments about a system I don't have! :eek:

CW...are you aware that me and some of my cousins are into the "removal" business.

Should you decide to shift camps :D

[Geoff Chandler]

One problem I am finding with DSLR (not particularly the D80 as such) is exposure. With my other two point and shoots I could check on the EVF which was easier to see than a screen. DSLR only has a screen - on holiday it was sometimes hard to judge the exposure, looking at the photo I had just taken, in the bright sun many looked under exposed. When I downloaded them many of my pics were brighter than I thought they would be.
It seems to me that whilst the DSLRs are much faster to take a shot - they are slower because there are so many parameters to get right in order to get the picture how you want - just how I am finding it - but I have seriously wondered about switching back to my A200, despite loving the D80 and yes, it can take better photos - if i work hard enough at it.
Trouble is it caused a lot of tension on holiday with my wife as I was spending SO much time fiddling with that stupid camera!
Maybe with time it all falls into place - but just now it seems as soon as I get on top of one area - another causes me difficulty. Now - my old OM2 film camera was dead easy to use, but this is a technological nightmare to cope with.

[aparmley]

One problem I am finding with DSLR (not particularly the D80 as such) is exposure. With my other two point and shoots I could check on the EVF which was easier to see than a screen. DSLR only has a screen - on holiday it was sometimes hard to judge the exposure, looking at the photo I had just taken, in the bright sun many looked under exposed. When I downloaded them many of my pics were brighter than I thought they would be.
It seems to me that whilst the DSLRs are much faster to take a shot - they are slower because there are so many parameters to get right in order to get the picture how you want - just how I am finding it - but I have seriously wondered about switching back to my A200, despite loving the D80 and yes, it can take better photos - if i work hard enough at it.
Trouble is it caused a lot of tension on holiday with my wife as I was spending SO much time fiddling with that stupid camera!
Maybe with time it all falls into place - but just now it seems as soon as I get on top of one area - another causes me difficulty. Now - my old OM2 film camera was dead easy to use, but this is a technological nightmare to cope with.

"Histogram!" ;)

[qwertz]

One problem I am finding with DSLR (not particularly the D80 as such) is exposure. With my other two point and shoots I could check on the EVF which was easier to see than a screen. DSLR only has a screen - on holiday it was sometimes hard to judge the exposure, looking at the photo I had just taken, in the bright sun many looked under exposed. When I downloaded them many of my pics were brighter than I thought they would be.
It seems to me that whilst the DSLRs are much faster to take a shot - they are slower because there are so many parameters to get right in order to get the picture how you want - just how I am finding it - but I have seriously wondered about switching back to my A200, despite loving the D80 and yes, it can take better photos - if i work hard enough at it.
Trouble is it caused a lot of tension on holiday with my wife as I was spending SO much time fiddling with that stupid camera!
Maybe with time it all falls into place - but just now it seems as soon as I get on top of one area - another causes me difficulty. Now - my old OM2 film camera was dead easy to use, but this is a technological nightmare to cope with.

http://www.digital-inspector.com/2007/05/01/nikon-d80-a-winning-update/

All in all this is one great dslr camera....

[Geoff Chandler]

"Histogram!" ;)
Thanks aparmley,
Mixed reactions to your logical reply...
Yes - initially - great idea - it's so easy, front wheel on review.
But - I look at histograms while editing on the PC and they have a limited
helpfullness for me ~ sometimes you need to leave a long flat bit at one or
the other end - so it's hard to judge if this is the case or not.

TO EXPLAIN: - My Iceland trip wasn't the sunnyest weather wise - and
any seasoned photographer knows about the problems of grey sky lighting -
looks bright in the photo but doesn't light the ground as strongly - resulting in shadowy photos often (especially with full auto camera modes).
The histograms, looking at the photos afterwards, can be misleading - setting them right on some of the photos really spoils the final image - this, as I said, is really because of the difficult lighting I experienced.
So - I was trying to do a lot of guessing. To be fair I was up against it: new camera, difficult lighting - lots of grey skys and very strong contrasts - black sands and rocks - very hard to know what to meter. I faired reasonably well by using the 'centre weighted' and then making sure the iimportant subject was in the moveable focus point.
But - it was tricky as it was supposed to be a restfull relaxed holiday ~ and me messing around - taking photos twice, etc, wasn't the most harmonious for me and my poor wife.
Learnt a lot from the experience and now whilst editing.
Yes it is a great camera, but sometimes I may well just take the A-200 as that is also very capeable - just more grainy at higher ISO

[aparmley]

It isn't easy and god knows I don't have it down. If evaluate the scene and know where the brightest highlights are going to be in your image and if you decide if they are valuable or not to the photograph then you know just how close to clipping you need to bring them or if its ok to let them clip just a tad. DR is a difficult thing to work with but the histogram if used effectively can help you out a great deal - its just takes a lot of work to get to a point where you know what to look for and just how much to trust it.

[Geoff Chandler]

Sorry - I am bad with abbreviations ( dyslexia rools KO)
What is 'DR'
Geoff

[coldrain]

Dynamic Range.

[Geoff Chandler]

Thanks - it's so obvious once spelt out!

[Rooz]

i thought it was Doctor. :D

[aparmley]

i thought it was Doctor. :D

No no no thats "Dr."

Thanks Coldy. Sorry Geoff.

[Geoff Chandler]

Either way - it's going to take some time - but overall results are great.

[TheObiJuan]

What next, the world is flat?
:confused:


:p
Gear is gear, it's that simple.
I'm proud of you parm.

[George Riehm]

I'm sitting here waiting for the battery to charge. I took the D70 in for a cleaning and was seduced by a D80 in the window (actually a glass case). The viewfinder is so bright that I have to wear polarized sunglasses... in the dark.

The charging light has stopped blinking...

Gotta go.

Damn! The sun has gone down.

Night shots?:D

Postscript: Ohhh Yeah... This is the camera that the 24-70 f/2.8 was designed for.

[Geoff Chandler]

George ~ welcome to the world of the D80:D
I hope you enjoy this new life!!!:D

[George Riehm]

George ~ welcome to the world of the D80:D
I hope you enjoy this new life!!!:D

I have to thank Nikon for finally getting the hang of this DSLR thing... for under a grand. Since I started the Nikon odessy with a CP900 it seems only fitting to continue the tradition ($999 about every 3 years). From 1.3MP in 1998 to 10.2MP in 2007. I can't wait to see what $999 will buy in 2010.

[aparmley]

What next, the world is flat?
:confused:


:p
Gear is gear, it's that simple.
I'm proud of you parm.

LMAO. Thanks. . . I think:p

[aparmley]

Postscript: Ohhh Yeah... This is the camera that the 24-70 f/2.8 was designed for.

Do go on. . .

[DonSchap]

Nikon is the dark side to Canonites and Canon is the dark side to Nikonians. It's a relative term.


And then there are people like Jamie and Andrew up there....black all over.

I know this a tad bit late, but remember SONY is the Rebellion. Their Rebel Forces are preparing to mount an assault, next year.

"It is useless to resist ..." LOL

[Ray Schnoor]

I have to thank Nikon for finally getting the hang of this DSLR thing... for under a grand. Since I started the Nikon odessy with a CP900 it seems only fitting to continue the tradition ($999 about every 3 years). From 1.3MP in 1998 to 10.2MP in 2007. I can't wait to see what $999 will buy in 2010.
I've also been thinking of upgrading my D70 which I got in May-2004. I'm trying to hold out to see what the D200 replacement will be, though.

Ray.

[Geoff Chandler]

Now I am getting to grips with it more I really like the D80.
It's certainly a good compromise between super expensive and
realistic and it seems to do all the things I want so far.
I guess learning and understanding how it 'thinks' was half the
battle.
Once I have paid for it I will consider what else I need for it -
I suppose a seperate flash - though mostly I prefer natural light
and its own one gets you out of a scrape very well for an
on board flash.
Lenses?
I wish I had some overlap with the initial 2 I got - maybe a holiday
wide ranging lens might help - also I would wuite like a portrait one -
but the Sigma 17 - 70 does do lovely portraits anyway.
I don't use the 70 - 300 much - so maybe a 55 - 200 inbetween
would usefully overlap>>??
Dream on!

[George Riehm]

Do go on. . .

The Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 was pretty quick on the D70 but focuses instantly on the D80, even in fairly low light. It was almost startling at first. I haven't hooked it to the 18-125, or the Nikkor 35 f/2, and 50 f/1.8 yet. I hate it when work gets in the way of shooting (both kinds).

I will give it a good run in the next 2 weeks on vacation back to the homeland (Northern CA and Oregon). It's been pretty windy and dusty here in the desert, so photo ops have been few and far between. I will try to get out to Papago Park at lunch for some red-rock shots.

[aparmley]

The Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 was pretty quick on the D70 but focuses instantly on the D80, even in fairly low light. It was almost startling at first. I haven't hooked it to the 18-125, or the Nikkor 35 f/2, and 50 f/1.8 yet. I hate it when work gets in the way of shooting (both kinds).

I will give it a good run in the next 2 weeks on vacation back to the homeland (Northern CA and Oregon). It's been pretty windy and dusty here in the desert, so photo ops have been few and far between. I will try to get out to Papago Park at lunch for some red-rock shots.

Interesting . . . . TY for sharing.