PDA

View Full Version : D70 purchased



wishbone
12-12-2004, 07:01 AM
Well, after almost paralyzing myself with over analysis, bouncing between the Pentax *isgtDS, 300d, and the D70, I finally picked up my D70 yesterday. I went ahead with the kit lens and a Tamron 70-300. I have three weeks to return the lens and try something else, but after taking some sample shots last night, I was pleasantly surprised with the shots I got from the Tamron.

Now the learning begins!

D70FAN
12-12-2004, 07:57 AM
Well, after almost paralyzing myself with over analysis, bouncing between the Pentax *isgtDS, 300d, and the D70, I finally picked up my D70 yesterday. I went ahead with the kit lens and a Tamron 70-300. I have three weeks to return the lens and try something else, but after taking some sample shots last night, I was pleasantly surprised with the shots I got from the Tamron.

Now the learning begins!

Eventually you will get tired of changing lenses for a little extra reach (not to mention cleaning the sensor). I had the same setup (only the Nikkor 70-300), which is why I suggested the Sigma lens. Now add a 50mm f1.4 or 1.8 and you have the basic kit.

You might want to pick up the iNova D70 e-book to help.

http://www.digitalsecrets.net/

Anyway, good choice, and have fun.

wishbone
12-12-2004, 09:20 AM
I thought about the Sigma 18-125 instead of the kit lens, but decided to wait and see how the Tamron 18-200 looks when it comes out. I will definitely get a prime or two but decided to hold off and see what focal length will work best, although the 50 f1.8 is a no brainer for the price!

D70FAN
12-13-2004, 06:04 AM
I thought about the Sigma 18-125 instead of the kit lens, but decided to wait and see how the Tamron 18-200 looks when it comes out. I will definitely get a prime or two but decided to hold off and see what focal length will work best, although the 50 f1.8 is a no brainer for the price!

Good thinking. I am looking forward to trying that lens, in spring, as well. Since, in theory, it is based on the 28-300 it should work very well. The 28-300 just didn't have enough wide-angle range for me.

Bon Foto.

pennyberg
12-15-2004, 02:35 PM
I bought my D-100 from a guy who used Sigma lenses. He sold the camera body to me cheap because he had busted the depth of field sensor (that little metal knob that sticks out when you screw the lens on) from shoving one of his Sigma lenses on there. So now I'm completely scared of trying other (cheaper) lenses on my Nikon (now that it's fixed!).

D70FAN
12-15-2004, 03:48 PM
I bought my D-100 from a guy who used Sigma lenses. He sold the camera body to me cheap because he had busted the depth of field sensor (that little metal knob that sticks out when you screw the lens on) from shoving one of his Sigma lenses on there. So now I'm completely scared of trying other (cheaper) lenses on my Nikon (now that it's fixed!).

Note: All of the AF G series lenses from Nikkor are "cheap" lenses and they work fine.

I have a feeling that the lens brand was incidental in the damage, as it sounds like he was just careless. The Sigma DC lenses may be less expensive, but they are hardly cheaper. The build quality of the 18-125 DC is as good as the Nikkor 18-70 DX it replaced.

So fear not, and pay less for more... :)

Rhys
12-15-2004, 04:02 PM
Eventually you will get tired of changing lenses for a little extra reach (not to mention cleaning the sensor). I had the same setup (only the Nikkor 70-300), which is why I suggested the Sigma lens. Now add a 50mm f1.4 or 1.8 and you have the basic kit.

You might want to pick up the iNova D70 e-book to help.

http://www.digitalsecrets.net/

Anyway, good choice, and have fun.

Tired of changing lenses? Do you mean to say you use just one lens all day, 99% of the time?

D70FAN
12-15-2004, 04:33 PM
Tired of changing lenses? Do you mean to say you use just one lens all day, 99% of the time?

Since the kit lens only covers 18-70 (27-105 digital) it just doesn't have the reach I need for everyday shooting, and I found myself changing lenses many times a day (18-70 to 70-300, and back) just to get a little extra reach.

Since I started using the Sigma 18-125 DC (27-187 equivalent) about 90% of my shooting needs are covered. If I want to go long (rarely) I snap on the Nikkor 70-300 AF-G, and for the occasional portrait, pano, or low light shot, I use the Nikkor AF 50mm f1.8 (one of the worlds great bargains). On an active weekend shoot I might change lenses 2 or 3 times, but it is rare, even for weddings. The D70 and Sigma 18-125 make a very nice all-purpose combination. With the introduction of the Tamron 18-200 I might even eliminate the need for the Nikkor 70-300. If only it were image stabilized...

Rhys
12-16-2004, 07:10 AM
If Nikon or Canon were to come out with an all-in-one that had the range (35mm values) of 28 - 380 then I believe that would probably do everything you'd ever want.

Actually, what you say makes me wonder whether something like a combination of the Olympus 5060 Wide Zoom and the Olympus C-770 Ultra Zoom would pretty well replace what you carry in your gadget bag. I know they're "only" 4 and 5 megapixel as opposed to the D70's 6 megapixels but to me they look like a pretty good bargain.

I'm looking at them from the point of view that:

With no lenses to change, there's no risk of getting dirt on the CCD
For the price of a 38 - 380 zoom lens, you get a 38-380 zoom lens and a camera thrown in. The same goes for the wide zoom.
The money that could be saved by buying these cameras would more than offset the cost of the XD cards.
When a stabilised version comes along, you still have the old version to use as a backup if you purchase the stabilised camera.

D70FAN
12-16-2004, 09:19 AM
If Nikon or Canon were to come out with an all-in-one that had the range (35mm values) of 28 - 380 then I believe that would probably do everything you'd ever want.

Actually, what you say makes me wonder whether something like a combination of the Olympus 5060 Wide Zoom and the Olympus C-770 Ultra Zoom would pretty well replace what you carry in your gadget bag. I know they're "only" 4 and 5 megapixel as opposed to the D70's 6 megapixels but to me they look like a pretty good bargain.

I'm looking at them from the point of view that:

With no lenses to change, there's no risk of getting dirt on the CCD
For the price of a 38 - 380 zoom lens, you get a 38-380 zoom lens and a camera thrown in. The same goes for the wide zoom.
The money that could be saved by buying these cameras would more than offset the cost of the XD cards.
When a stabilised version comes along, you still have the old version to use as a backup if you purchase the stabilised camera.


I think you mean 28mm to 380mm zoom, as the Panasonic FZ20 currently goes one better with their image stabilized f2.8 35mm-420mm zoom, and you don't have to buy those nasty little overpriced xD cards. I think there is a 0.6X wide angle adapter lens available, so wide angle is covered (21mm?).

There is a lot more to a good dSLR than just the Megapixel count. The placement of controls, the amount of control, very high (and clean) ISO capabiity, due to a larger area APS-C sensor, and the capability to use different lenses as the need arrises. I generally don't take 3 lenses with me when I travel unless I know I will be shooting portraits or wildlife. The 50mm f1.8 is pretty small anyway, and easily fits in a jacket pocket. And as I said, 18-125 (27-187) easily covers most shooting situations, and is fairly compact.

What you would need in an all-in-one to match a dSLR's capabilities are:

APS-C sized 6MP to 8MP sensor.
A 18mm-600mm f1.4-f4 AF IS with manual zoom & focus option.
Variable aperture allowing f1.4 at 50mm-75mm (for portraits).
A true SLR Penta-prism/mirror viewfinder (not an EVF).
3-5fps continuous shooting until the memory is full.

I'm sure I've left something off here, but you get the idea of how hard it would be to actually replace a dSLR's flexibility. I may rarely have need of a 10.5mm f2.8 fisheye, or a 600mm f4, but I do have the option of renting them when the need arrises.

Rhys
12-16-2004, 05:15 PM
I think this is a point we'll probably disagree on. Personally, I'm very much in favour of an all-in-one because they're lighter and more convenient. I used to lug around a camera bag with:
2 x Nikon FM (both with MD-12, each with 8 x AA batteries)
28mm Tamron
35mm Nikkor
50mm Nikkor
85mm Nikkor
135mm Tamron
200mm Nikkor
300mm Tamron
Vivitar 2x teleconverter + Jessops macro tubes
Plus 4 bulk boxes of Cokin filters
Plus my Metz 45 CT-1 + a spare battery pack for it (6 x AA in each pack)
Plus film plus a changing bag - just in case.
Total weight - around 2 stone (28lbs)

Later, I caut down to a minimalist set of 1 FM, 50mm, 28mm, 135mm, tubes, teleconverter, MD12 and red, green, yellow, polarising and starburst Hoya circular filters.

Now I'm on digital, I can see the advantage of only a polarising filter (or maybe a lens hood). I carry my camera, some spare batteries and spare memory cards. It's all a lot lighter.

In terms of bulk and cost, I prefer the all-in-ones. I'm not so certain that the image quality of the dSLRs is all that much of an improvement. I'm sure it's useful to have a "B" setting but how often is it ever used?

D70FAN
12-16-2004, 06:31 PM
I think this is a point we'll probably disagree on. Personally, I'm very much in favour of an all-in-one because they're lighter and more convenient. I used to lug around a camera bag with:
2 x Nikon FM (both with MD-12, each with 8 x AA batteries)
28mm Tamron
35mm Nikkor
50mm Nikkor
85mm Nikkor
135mm Tamron
200mm Nikkor
300mm Tamron
Vivitar 2x teleconverter + Jessops macro tubes
Plus 4 bulk boxes of Cokin filters
Plus my Metz 45 CT-1 + a spare battery pack for it (6 x AA in each pack)
Plus film plus a changing bag - just in case.
Total weight - around 2 stone (28lbs)

Later, I caut down to a minimalist set of 1 FM, 50mm, 28mm, 135mm, tubes, teleconverter, MD12 and red, green, yellow, polarising and starburst Hoya circular filters.

Now I'm on digital, I can see the advantage of only a polarising filter (or maybe a lens hood). I carry my camera, some spare batteries and spare memory cards. It's all a lot lighter.

In terms of bulk and cost, I prefer the all-in-ones. I'm not so certain that the image quality of the dSLRs is all that much of an improvement. I'm sure it's useful to have a "B" setting but how often is it ever used?

Things have changed.

My kit:

D70 with 18-125 DC lens and hood (reversed on the lens for easy stowing).

50mm f1.8

2 EN-EL3 batteries.

3 CF Cards

1 partridge in a pear tree (how did that get in there?).

It all fits (minus that sneaky partridge) neatly into a single, small, Lowepro LTZ Mini. Except the 50mm 1.8 which fits into a jacket pocket.

No more trouble than my old 990 in a fanny-pack, with a 2X and .047X add-on lens (Jacket Pocket), 8 (fairly heavy) AA NiMH's, and 3 CF Cards.

Plus with the D70 I can take about 1000 shots per battery/charge. So with 3 batteries I'm good for a week to 10 days on vacation.

Rhys
12-16-2004, 07:18 PM
I tend to carry 1 spare set of NiMh batteries for my S1 plus a couple of spare CF cards plus the camera. The camera fits niocely into my backpack or into one of my larger jacket pockets. Plus, if I should find I'm out of juice, I can simply pop into a shop to buy some alkaline batteries.

D70FAN
12-17-2004, 09:38 AM
Plus, if I should find I'm out of juice, I can simply pop into a shop to buy some alkaline batteries.

I never have this problem. With 3 (lightweight, but powerful) EN-EL3's I'm good for at least 3000 shots. But for the memory impaired, the D70 also has a nifty little carrier (weighs about 1/3 oz. empty) that you can stuff 3- CR2 Lithiums (now carried at most tourist attractions, drug and grociery stores) and you are good for another 1000+ shots. Maybe not quite as easy as AA's, but again I have never "run out of juice" with the D70.

And I can leave it on all day and still get 1000 shots. dSLR's are in standbye (sleep mode) until you press the shutter release. The wake up and shoot is all but instantaneous.

I'm telling you Rhys, there is nothing to dislike about a dSLR. Even the size is no big deal.

Rhys
12-17-2004, 11:41 AM
Oddly enough, I did see a dSLR at a sensible price, in town today. It was 249 and came witb a 28 - 90 zoom. Obviously one would need to buy a wider zoom but that looked fine - until I noticed the logo. It had a Pentax logo and I know Pentax is a 5th rate peddler of cheapo trash.

erichlund
12-17-2004, 10:14 PM
If Nikon or Canon were to come out with an all-in-one that had the range (35mm values) of 28 - 380 then I believe that would probably do everything you'd ever want.



Including the development of really strong biceps! :D

D70FAN
12-18-2004, 09:09 AM
Including the development of really strong biceps! :D

In March (hopefully) Tamron is introducing the AF 18-200 making it digitallly equivalent to the current 28-300 on cameras with APS-C sized sensors (1.5X crop). Weighing in at about 15 oz. there is very little lug factor.

Let's hope it's as good (or better) than the 28-300. :)

radek_42
12-21-2004, 05:10 PM
Hi there,

as many peple I am interested in D70 dSLR camera. The Nikkor 18-70mm lens seems to be pretty good, but I'd like to have a bit more zoom power. Earlier you mentioned Sigma 18-125mm DC lens ... Well,
1. I found Quantaray with those parameters (even cheaper than Nikkor 18-70mm).
2. I asked about Sigma lenses in a local camera shop. They said Sigma lenses soonere or later fall apart. True or False? :rolleyes:

Cheers, R.

Mike Woods
12-21-2004, 05:37 PM
Hi there,

as many peple I am interested in D70 dSLR camera. The Nikkor 18-70mm lens seems to be pretty good, but I'd like to have a bit more zoom power. Earlier you mentioned Sigma 18-125mm DC lens ... Well,
1. I found Quantaray with those parameters (even cheaper than Nikkor 18-70mm).
2. I asked about Sigma lenses in a local camera shop. They said Sigma lenses soonere or later fall apart. True or False? :rolleyes:

Cheers, R.

I could be wrong, but I believe Sigma makes Quantaray, and I doubt that they just fall apart. They may not be as sturdy as the professional lenses on the market, but if you take care of them, they should serve you well.

radek_42
12-21-2004, 06:18 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe Sigma makes Quantaray, and I doubt that they just fall apart. They may not be as sturdy as the professional lenses on the market, but if you take care of them, they should serve you well.

Thanks Mike. I though Sigma-Quantaray deal could be somthing like that .... I also have strange feeling abou that camera shop: "We don't have Sigma lenses, but they are bad anyway" .... "We don't have Panasonic (Lumix) camera, because they are bad". It seems whatever they don't have is bad. Next time I know ;)

I gotta say this forum is pretty good .... takes time to read it all :)

R.

D70FAN
12-21-2004, 08:21 PM
Hi there,

as many peple I am interested in D70 dSLR camera. The Nikkor 18-70mm lens seems to be pretty good, but I'd like to have a bit more zoom power. Earlier you mentioned Sigma 18-125mm DC lens ... Well,
1. I found Quantaray with those parameters (even cheaper than Nikkor 18-70mm).
2. I asked about Sigma lenses in a local camera shop. They said Sigma lenses soonere or later fall apart. True or False? :rolleyes:

Cheers, R.

1. Yes Sigma does make Quantray products as does Sunpack (flash). I think Tamron does as well.

2. Nonsense! Sigma quality is easily up there with Nikkor G lenses. Whoever said that is a moron. Find a different camera store. I sold my Nikkor 18-70 DX ($300) in favor of the Sigma 18-125 DC ($260) for my D70. Love it!

TenD
12-22-2004, 08:52 PM
It doesn't exist. That's why we have interchangeable lenses. To buy a lens so you don't have to change lenses is a compromise at best. Dust is easily cleaned off the sensor with a blower for the most part. If it is more stubborn copperhill or sensor brush will take care of it. The more you stretch out a zoom lense's range the more you compromise. To make a large range zoom, usually something suffers, at one end or other of the zoom, usually at wide open f stops and toward the edges of the photo. The higher priced lenses usually lessen this effect. George's Sigma gallery has some very fine photographs in it, but in looking at the exif data they are most all taken with an f stop of near 10, this is pretty much right at the sweet spot of the lens, and will produce very good images. A true test of a lens is at the edges of its apertures either wide open or fully stopped down. Sigma makes some fine lenses, but the truth is most of their zoom lenses are not up to the image quality of the big manufacturer lenses.
Look at MTF graphs http://photodo.com/ Admittedly the MTF graphs are a cold scientific way to measure a lens, and does not take into account what your eye sees in terms of feeling, but it is in my opinion a good base to start your search from.
As a general rule you will find the resolving quality and contrast of the big manufacturer lenses to be superior to the third party manufacturers. Sigma's
prime lenses are quite good. Prime lenses are superior to zooms in almost every instance. Sigma does provide a decent lens for a decent price, but in most instances the OEM lenses provide higher image quality. The differences are small, and a person has to decide whether those small differences are worth the extra money.

D70FAN
12-23-2004, 06:34 AM
It doesn't exist. That's why we have interchangeable lenses. To buy a lens so you don't have to change lenses is a compromise at best. Dust is easily cleaned off the sensor with a blower for the most part. If it is more stubborn copperhill or sensor brush will take care of it. The more you stretch out a zoom lense's range the more you compromise. To make a large range zoom, usually something suffers, at one end or other of the zoom, usually at wide open f stops and toward the edges of the photo. The higher priced lenses usually lessen this effect. George's Sigma gallery has some very fine photographs in it, but in looking at the exif data they are most all taken with an f stop of near 10, this is pretty much right at the sweet spot of the lens, and will produce very good images. A true test of a lens is at the edges of its apertures either wide open or fully stopped down. Sigma makes some fine lenses, but the truth is most of their zoom lenses are not up to the image quality of the big manufacturer lenses.
Look at MTF graphs http://photodo.com/ Admittedly the MTF graphs are a cold scientific way to measure a lens, and does not take into account what your eye sees in terms of feeling, but it is in my opinion a good base to start your search from.
As a general rule you will find the resolving quality and contrast of the big manufacturer lenses to be superior to the third party manufacturers. Sigma's
prime lenses are quite good. Prime lenses are superior to zooms in almost every instance. Sigma does provide a decent lens for a decent price, but in most instances the OEM lenses provide higher image quality. The differences are small, and a person has to decide whether those small differences are worth the extra money.

The sweet spot of all zoom lenses is the mid-aperture settings, but the examples up on smugmug just didn't require a lower setting, and you will find that 75% of pictures taken by professionals and amatures alike, in daylight conditions, using a zoom lens, are in the f8 to f11 range.

You need to compare similar lenses and the photodo site tests Nikkor AF-D (pro) glass, not Nikkor AF-G (consumer) glass. The Sigma lenses tested are at least 10 years old, and most are well over 10. This is true for the Nikkor lenses as well.

My statement was that in the case of Sigma 18-125 DC vs. Nikkor 18-70 DX the "build quality" difference is negligable. But I will add that for G class Nikkor glass vs. equivalent Sigma lenses there is no visible difference, wide open or stopped down, but you gain the advantage of a longer lens.

TenD
12-24-2004, 09:05 PM
Your examples on smugmug don't require a different aperture, but to give a lens a fair test, and provide an objective opinion you have to take photographs with it across the range of apertures or provide examples of such. You could take large numbers of lenses and take photographs at mid apertures and have very decent results. If all you are going to use are mid apertures then by all means, buy the less expensive lens. I guess what I am saying is you have to give the whole story. What do you do if your subject is at the edge of the frame and you want to isolate it? You need sharp to the corners and a large aperture. What if your composition requires using 25mm and you want the leaf sitting on the rock 3 feet from you in sharp focus and waterfall in the distance in the same sharp focus? You would have to explore the edges of the aperture range of a lens. That is usually where a higher quality piece of glass will shine.
I would like to see examples with 100% crops center and corners comparing the Sigma to the Nikkor wide open, and fully stopped down. I will jump right on the Sigma bandwagon if they are comparable. It may be, since the lens you are comparing it to is the Nikkor kit lens. Canon's kit lens is inferior to a lot of it's consumer glass, yet a lot of Canon's consumer glass is superior to that of Sigma/Tamron.

D70FAN
12-24-2004, 09:46 PM
Your examples on smugmug don't require a different aperture, but to give a lens a fair test, and provide an objective opinion you have to take photographs with it across the range of apertures or provide examples of such. You could take large numbers of lenses and take photographs at mid apertures and have very decent results. If all you are going to use are mid apertures then by all means, buy the less expensive lens. I guess what I am saying is you have to give the whole story. What do you do if your subject is at the edge of the frame and you want to isolate it? You need sharp to the corners and a large aperture. What if your composition requires using 25mm and you want the leaf sitting on the rock 3 feet from you in sharp focus and waterfall in the distance in the same sharp focus? You would have to explore the edges of the aperture range of a lens. That is usually where a higher quality piece of glass will shine.
I would like to see examples with 100% crops center and corners comparing the Sigma to the Nikkor wide open, and fully stopped down. I will jump right on the Sigma bandwagon if they are comparable. It may be, since the lens you are comparing it to is the Nikkor kit lens. Canon's kit lens is inferior to a lot of it's consumer glass, yet a lot of Canon's consumer glass is superior to that of Sigma/Tamron.

I'm not giving a tutorial on the Sigma, and I don't have time to test every setting. When I compare 200 shots from the Sigma to 200 similar shots with the Nikkor 18-70, my eye's tell me that the Sigma works as well AND give me more range.

This is a low-cost, consumer grade, lens that does a very good job across its range. I really don't give a feather-for-a-fig wheather you jump on the bandwagon or not. There is no bandwagon. I'm not selling Sigma lenses. I just happen to like the lens, and thought I would pass this information to others. Use it or don't.

Instead of reading a bunch of test data you need to go out and try the lenses in real life. I have tried a bunch, and the Sigma 18-125 shines on my D70, and for my applications. For everything else I use the 50mm f1.8 or the 70-300. People like, and compliment, the prints from this lens/camera combination, and that's the bottom line.