K10D REview

[goon525]

Just to say that I must have read a dozen reviews of this camera, and I thought DC Resource's the best balanced and most useful, particularly on the subject of the RAW and JPEGs issue. As a result, I've laready made changes to the settings I use for when I'm shooting JPEGs on my K10D. Well done!

[benjikan]

A very illuminating and objective review IMO...Well done and thanks for taking your time to write it!

Ben

[michaelchan]

Jeff, you mentioned the k10d was a "stressful" review. I'm curious what that means.

Anyway, thanks for your thorough review, and I would echo the sentiments you expressed with your suggestions for those that want to shoot jpeg straight out of the camera as being very helpful. It's been posted in many threads questioning why Pentax didn't choose those settings as default, with the "softer, film-feel" as the option. Personally, I only shoot PEFs unless shooting something that requires a very high frame rate, which is rare for me. I've been shooting with the K10D (that relegated my DL to a backup; still very fond of that camera) for more than four months now and have fallen completely for its design and the way it allows me to shoot so easily and flexibly, with results that exceeded my original expectations.

I differ with the review statement regarding the ease of menu navigation, but this is probably because I have shot Pentax DSLRs for quite some time and have become trained by them.

Here are my criticisms of the K10D:

1) the battery meter is borderline useless. Why bars? Full/Not full/Empty? Worthless. Why not percentage?

2) the accessory port feels substandard in its construction/securing mechanism compared to the construction of the rest of the body

3) The front control dial (under one's right index finger) is difficult to operate one handed. This may be personal preference.

4) Low light focus hunting. It can become maddening enough for me to shoot manual focus in low light. Fortunately, the screen is very bright and makes it easy to manually trim. (I hope this will be mitigated by the internal focus motor lenses soon to come)

5) Missed focus. Shooting tight DOF, sometimes I'm surprised at the focus selection the camera picks. This might well be user error.

6) Not a camera fault, but the kit lens vignetting at wide is quite annoying. I sincerely hope the 18-50 f2.8 doesn't have this problem; I've refrained from buying the 16-45 in anticipation of this lens. However, the kit lens has performed very well for me when I keep in mind its limitations when shooting wide.

I am a very happy Pentax customer indeed.

[vjd007]

I have read many reviews of the K10D. I have been waiting for its review on this site for some time. I'm glad its finally done.

I have been planning to switch over from my P&S (Canon S2IS) to a DSLR for some time now. I have been using friends' D70s and 350D. I am very familiar Canon's navigation, and since its pretty much the same as my P&S, i'm very comfortable. But from the moment I read of plans for the K10D last year, I knew I had to get this. I read through the features, and since this is a new market space for Pentax, they have to come out with a decent product. And I believe, they are not making much money from selling this camera.

The other reason I choose this camera, is because it accepts (almost every) old Pentax lense. Which is useful, as uncle has loads of these lenses. All in good condition, and he's waiting to get rid of them. :D

However, there is one flaw (if you can call it that) with this camera, that i might find annoying. Its JPEG quality. (You see, i'm not too big on post processing) I know.. I know.. I'm probably too used to the oversharpened P&S pictures. But hear me out first... I read in another forum (or review) that even after converting a PEF file to JPEG using Pentax's software, you get the same result as JPEG out of the camera. If this is true, then there is something software about it. A software algorithm perhaps? And if its software, wouldn't that make it possible for a firmware upgrade for fix it?

This is a solid camera, with a solid lense lineup to follow. Its disapointing for the 'photography experience' to be ruined by a software flaw (especially if its correctable). But that's just me.. I will get this camera though (later this month) together with the 16-45, and will adopt the settings recommended in the reviews. I just hope, Pentax comes out and says its not software, and these settings are by design. I can live with that.

[lucav]

I, instead, would love to hear some opinion on the vertical noise pattern which is so much talked about on other forums yet not mentioned in reviews.

Thanks,
Luca

[ARP]

I, instead, would love to hear some opinion on the vertical noise pattern which is so much talked about on other forums yet not mentioned in reviews.

I'm interested as well. I actually tried to figure out source of the issues on the forums and it appears that its only a few people really seem to have the problem and the circumstance in which they experience are a bit extreme (ISO 1600 dark object with difficult lighting). But they appear to be very vocal about the problem. Perhaps its an intentional case of peddling FUD (Fear, uncertainty, doubt), a bad camera, or just a misalignment of expectations.

Ryan

[timmciglobal]

For the record I've gotten this as low as ISO 400 in some shots I did in shadow area. The problem seems to come up specially with shadow areas and underexposed shadow areas.

Tim

[lucav]

Perhaps its an intentional case of peddling FUD (Fear, uncertainty, doubt), a bad camera, or just a misalignment of expectations.

Ryan

I agree but only to a point.
I did see some rather bad pictures on the issue and I can see myself getting into the problem from time to time, if needing to lift some shadows in postprocessing.

I would trust opinions of reviewers, though, which are surely more experienced than me.

Bye,
Luca

[michaelchan]

I read in another forum (or review) that even after converting a PEF file to JPEG using Pentax's software, you get the same result as JPEG out of the camera. If this is true, then there is something software about it. A software algorithm perhaps? And if its software, wouldn't that make it possible for a firmware upgrade for fix it?

Pentax's software, while functional, is tedious at best and should be left in the box in my opinion. I would recommend the first thing to consider would be an alternative RAW converter/post processing workflow. I prefer BibblePro, but there are many fine choices out there.

[mutleybird]

for those that want to shoot jpeg straight out of the camera as being very helpful. It's been posted in many threads questioning why Pentax didn't choose those settings as default, with the "softer, film-feel" as the option.


If it was just the default settings and people wandering around bumping into walls because they didn't realize you can change the settings - that caused all the posts about jpg "film-like" quality, then there would be a lot of spoiled people out there.

If just upping the sharpness setting completely solved the issue, again, there'd be no reason for such a large amount of posts on this specific subject.

The thing is the type of sharpening Pentax gives us in the K10D. It is called darkside, or dark halo sharpening. Upping it just brings out texture to varying degrees.

The type of sharpening needed here to get the effect buyers want the choice of (and are thinking of) is acutance or edge sharpening. Commonly known as USM. Just by introducing an edge sharpening algorithm in a firmware update manifesting itself in a menu option so owners can still choose either type - would make all of this jpg situation become a non-issue.

Being a quality DSLR, these sharpening options would, of course, be fully adjustable, and even user-defeatable as to get the best result, without getting towards Canon, or P&S plasticky overprocessed territory.

Here is a pretty good analysis of the current less than optimum type of sharpening offered in the K10D:

http://littlezumbari.blogspot.com/2007/01/pentax-k10d-brightnatural-sharpening.html

Converting K10D RAW in the Pentax software generally doesn't give as good, sharp conversion results as the updated ACR (3.7), or Sikypix.

If the K10D processor was tweaked by firmware update to give JPG's more accuracy in the detail that the sensor recorded, like ACR would process the K10D raw files (and use that as a benchmark), again it would get rid of the continual doubts.

This is important for Pentax to not just dismiss.

This would contribute to the JPG issue disappearing for Pentax. Those who want the option to use their K10D for jpg's in a pinch when workflow/time constraints demand it - they should be able to rely on those jpgs to be as close to the most accurate RAW processing as possible. No post processing needed is important to this workflow situation, and "Bright" uses the same dark-halo sharpening that doesn't do it well.

This issue (and it definitely is an issue), and VPN which is also a definite issue dependant on shooting style or requirements of a specific photo, your monitor, your acceptance threshold, or simply trying to get the inherent dynamic range that the K10D 22 bit PRIME offers, but is cut short by the very existence of VPN - should be fixed or at least improved whether hardware or firmware.

Hopefully firmware will be offered, and will improve if not eliminate these issues.

Even if Pentax continues to publically deny the existence of any of this, it will all miraculously disappear in the K10D replacement that they are already rushing out for summer/autumn.

At the moment, the company line is "The K10D is absolutely perfect, but please buy the new K10D2 in just a few months already where we'll fix everything"

Larry

[Lilchilichoco]

There we go......let me join the chorus......I got some fabulous night shots and was mighty pleased with the my K10d......till the prints came.....the whole picture had vertical bands running down. There are dark corners at full zoom and some strange green lines running parallel to windows in a day shot of a building. What's going on?

[willindeed]

There is no such word as lense. It's lens singular; lenses plural. Thanks and now that the tantrum is over I'll return to reading about the Pentax.

[timmciglobal]

Main Entry: lens
Variant: also lense /'lenz/
Function: noun
1 : a curved piece of glass or plastic used singly or combined in eyeglasses or an optical instrument (as a microscope) for forming an image


Tim.

[mutleybird]

There we go......let me join the chorus......I got some fabulous night shots and was mighty pleased with the my K10d......till the prints came.....the whole picture had vertical bands running down. There are dark corners at full zoom and some strange green lines running parallel to windows in a day shot of a building. What's going on?


As advised on the other forum, you need to update to firmware 1.11

Larry

[Lilchilichoco]

willindeed, I had checked up on lense. I am equally frustrated with bad English.:)

mutleybird, will the upgrade really fix this? FGS the shot was at ISO 100!! I'm really losing faith here.

Everyone,maybe we should take this discussion to the Pentax Dslr Forum before Jeff chucks us out of here.

Best Regards

[coldrain]

willindeed, I had checked up on lense. I am equally frustrated with bad English.:)

mutleybird, will the upgrade really fix this? FGS the shot was at ISO 100!! I'm really losing faith here.

Everyone,maybe we should take this discussion to the Pentax Dslr Forum before Jeff chucks us out of here.

Best Regards
Even though some dictionaries show "lense" as a word, it still it wrong. Just use "lens" if you are concerned about bad english.

If you really are convinced there is a problem with the photo you took, just post a crop of an area where it showed up on the print and a cropped version.
It is impossible for banding to be visible on a print and not on the screen. The banding often discussed with the K10D (banding is a wrong term anyway, banding normally means that you see colour bands where there shoudl be smooth gradations) is always visible on screen.
So again, please show crops.

Your printer is most likely at fault.

[Lilchilichoco]

Answered in Pentax Dslr forum.

[Lilchilichoco]

My last post here,just in case someone is reading this.....I got my prints again and there were no bands......NO VPN in the K10D long exposure shots.

I apologize for the furor.....


Thanks and Best Regards