Travel dSLR

[sandytrail]

Well just joined this forum as it looks friendly and imformative :-).
Well I'm really sorry as yes it is another dSLR question (a very long one!)
I'm just really stuck and want to make the right decision before I spend my money. I'm a student at the moment and it is going to take me a LONG time to save for my perfect camera...so I want to get the right one! :-P

Budget

About €1,200 maxium, it would be better it if was around €1,000. This is for a body and a lens.

Size

I don't mind that much although the smaller the better. I am going to go on a gap year next year and will be doing alot of heavy travel. I really do like travelling light! Although I don't mind compensating if the camera is worth is!

Features

How many megapixels will suffice for you? I don't really mind although the occasional A3 print would be very nice!

* How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10)
10 :-), the most important thing!

Do you care for manual controls?
Well all dSLR have alot of maunal controls and this is one of the main reasons I want to get one

General Usage
Travel. I am REALLY into photography, especially portraits (at least I want to do alot more portrait photography). At the moment I have an old Minolta SLR that I really enjoy using. I aboslutley love my 135mm lens on my minolta camera (which would be about 85mm on a crop body??). I will have the camera for a long time as I will be going onto study Visual Communications or something similar at Uni. I really want to be able to grow into the cameras features.

I will do some low light photography, although mostly outdoors. It is always great not to use flash indoors though!!

Will you be shooting sports/action?
No, not really.

Miscellaneous

Are there any perticular brands you like/hate?
No, although I am leaning more towards a Canon or a Nikon due to their wide variety of lenses. I've always liked Olympus cameras although I'm quite worried by the smaller sensor and the limmited range of lenses with the dSLRS.

Are there particular models you already have in mind?
Nikon D80, Canon 400D (350D), Nikon D40(x) and Olympus (410 or 510)

(If applicable) Do you need any of the following special features? (Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, Weatherproof, Hotshoe, Rotating LCD)
Well I would say the camera would need to be quite rugid for my travles.

Lenses
I thought I'd add this in as a section as I've almost done more research on lenses than the camera! I realise that buying a body means buying into the family. So anyway I initally was really set on canon...they have an absolutly fantastic array of lenses (L glass) although then started getting worried as I couldn't find a good combination of lenses for my travels. I also really can't afford any of the L glass at this moment in time and it's just nice to know it's there for the future!

Then I found out about the 18-200mm Nikon. This seemed like the perfect combination for my travles. Although then of course there is the creeping of the lens, the cost and the limmited availability. In the end I found that it's probebly not the best option for me. So then I was back at looking at the shorter zooms. The Sigma 17-70mm (Canon or Nikon) looks great and also the 18-70mm Nikon. I realise I wouldn't really have a great zoom reach although it would be best to just get a standard walk around for now and then think about some more reach later on, if I feel I need it. There is the 70-300VR Nikon and 70-300mm IS Canon zooms that both look great (For future referance). I could also get a prime if I find that I don't really need a telephoto zoom. I could get a 85mm or 135mm??? Anyway I'm really stuck as my options are really balanced now!

Here are the combinations I'm considering:
(From shop in Holland)
Nikon D80 + Sigma 17-70mm + 2GB card + Camera bag - €1,250
Nikon D80 + Nikon 18-70mm + 2GB card + Camera bag - €1,183
Nikon D40(x) (Have to get with kit lens :-() + 17-70mm - €909 (not incl. bag or card)
Canon EOS 400D + Sigma 17-70mm - €1,018 (not incl. bag or card)

Of course any other reccomendations are welcome :-)
Thankyou everyone! (Sorry for the VERY long post!)

Joyce

Btw my flickr page www.flickr.com/photos/joycenicholls and then click on the 'photography' set. (Ignore all the odd friends pictures :-P) so you can get an idea of what photography I'm into. I'd LOVE to get more into portait photography though.

[swgod98]

The XTi and D80 are probably your best choices to grow into. Sounds like you are interested in learning as much as possible.

The XTi is definitely smaller/lighter, which sounds like a plus to you. The D80 is backed by Nikon's lighting system, which is typically known to be better than Canon's. But, then there's the lenses (as you have already done research on) which throw a whole new factor into the decision since lenses are just as important to consider.

I bought myself a 50mm 1.4 a few months ago because portaiture is a big interest for me. Haven't used it much lately, though :\

[Rhys]

Looking at your specifications, how about:

Canon XTi $800ish
Canon 17-85 f4-5.6 IS $500ish
Canon 70-300 f4-5.6 IS $500ish

Don't forget an extra battery and a few 1GB or larger memory cards.

[swgod98]

Don't forget an extra battery

I actually found an extra battery to be an unneeded expense. These camera's take a LOT of shots per charge and portrait work is best done without a flash, or with an off camera flash (so batteries only needed for the external flash).

[sandytrail]

Thanks for the replies!! Really appreciate it :-)

Yes I am really interested in getting a 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 prime...that's a problem I've got with the D40(x) as I can only manual focus with it. Yes I think the Nikon D80 and Canon 400D are my number one choice. I had a brief hold of both and found that I really did prefer the build of the nikon. There are many people who are complaining about oversaturated/unatural pictures with the D80....is this true???

I don't think I will get an extra battery as I find I dont really need them now that the battery life of cameras is so long. I might when it comes closer to my travels

Thanks, Joyce

[coldrain]

One of the reasons I chose an EOS 350D (XT) 2 years ago was its smaller size and weight compared to the Nikon D70. Because I did want to travel with it, and take it along anywhere. And thsi has till now proven to be a very good choice, as I just throw it in any backpack with a couple of light-ish lenses and take it along anywhere.

I also do prefer the lens-lineup from Canon more, and the sensor results. But how much of a factor these two points are is of course very personal.

I would not consider the 17-85 IS USM mentioned above, as in colour and contrast it is not really an impressive lens (to me). And the Nikon 18-70 and this Canon 17-85 do distort something awful. So if you want a lens with that range, the Sigma to me seems to be the best option. It also offers a nice 1:2.3 macro setting for free.

About the 70-300 VR and 70-300 IS USM, the 70-300 VR is quite a good lens, but the 70-300 IS USM is quite remarkable for the money optically. Stays very sharp upto 300mm, and into the corners (even on full frame cameras :eek: ).

Other lenses you could consider are the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 EX DC Macro and Tamron 17-50 f2.8 Di II. They have a little bit less reach, but with their constant f2.8 they may be interesting when light is low.

If you plan to shoot in RAW format, factor in some software also. I do not know what you have already. The Canon comes with a very good RAW convertor standard. You should leave noise reduction or sharpening to other software though.
The very good Nikon RAW conversion software costs an extra 150$.

[swgod98]

There are many people who are complaining about oversaturated/unatural pictures with the D80....is this true???

I haven't noticed a problem with my shots. But, I've had my D80 on -1/3 EV since I bought it and haven't really experimented otherwise. I personally feel it is just a matter of learning the camera's metering mode to get the best results possible, because I've heard of little issues like this with the other model you're interested in as well.

[sandytrail]

Yes I've already decided not to go with the canon 17-85mm as I haven't heard that many great things about it.
The sigma looks like my number choice at the moment :-). The Tamron and other Sigma also look interesting although I don't think the reach will be far enough for an every day walk about lens.

The software is a good point! I've got Photoshop Elements, is that any use when converting RAW?

Ooo decisions, decisions. The 400D and D80 are still very equally balanced...
Yes, I also think the D70 is too big, although the D80 is slightly smaller and I think the build is great. I really must have a proper feel of them some time. Just handeled them very briefly. I think seeing as all the factors are so balanced it really comes down to what I feel more comfortable with.

Thanks for the details about the Nikon, yes I agree that it probebly comes down to your personal settings.

Thanks for all the replies! Joyce

[JonathanJ]

Hello Joyce,

Have you thought about the Sony Alpha, which should be compatible with your Minolta 135mm lens? Which would then also become stabilised. And I think the crop factor works in the other direction, meaning that it would become a 200m lens.

The 2 kit lenses for the Sony, the 18-70 and 75-300 have decent reviews too, as being better lenses certainly than the Canon kit lens.

Another option is the Pentax K100D or K10D, which are also both good cameras, with a wide range of Pentax lenses.

I think then that the usual advice of trying these different cameras in the shop is probably the best thing to do, to see what suits you best in terms of size and handling.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[RichNY]

Having just traveled 3 weeks all over Europe with a 30D and a few great lenses I'd honestly say the best travel camera is NOT going to be a DSLR. I'd highly recommend something like a Canon S3.

Unless you are specifically going to be taking professional level pictures (shooting only early morning and before dusk for the perfect light and always on a tripod) the weight just does not justify the small difference in quality between a great digicam and a great DSLR and top glass.

There are many places cameras are not allowed- getting off a few shots with the S3 is a lot easier than pulling out a larger DSLR that you've snuck in. For shots of family and friends in front of a building or statue the S3 will give you all you need- you probably are not going to be blowing up the shot to 20x30.

Theft- If you are planning to travel in locations like Italy you will be so much more comfortable and relaxed traveling with a small relatively inexpensive camera like the S3 than a DSLR- this comes from person used to shooting in the bowels of NYC.

The shots I took sailing in Bora Bora and Tahiti this summer with a Sony H2 were excellent. I can't say that my European trip with the DSLR were any better. My favorite days and nights in Europe were the ones that I spend leaving the camera in the hotel room and just going out and having a good time. The biggest lesson I learned is not to take a DSLR on vacation unless the entire purpose of the vacation is photography (Such as on a Safari). For the 1000 shots I took, it was definately NOT worth bringing the DSLR and lenses.

*In terms of focal length, the digicam also gave me over 400mm of length which was great in Tahiti but if you are traveling in Europe then you are really going to want to shoot wide rather than long. Over 75% of my shots were taken at 10-17mm.

[coldrain]

I do not agree that a compact camera is a better choice. Yes, it is more compact and more portable. But making great photos on a vacation is worth a lot, and a DSLR with a few good lenses is worth its size inconvenience.

When RichNY was looking for a camera I did point out a few times that a 70-200 f2.8 would be a bit heavy and big... :eek:
So, my recommendation is to do what I did, and choose on quality and on size and weight.

I chose a 350D/XT two years ago, instead of a 20D, because of price and size.
I chose a Sigma 18-50 EX DC f2.8, it was the only lens in its class back then (no Tamron 17-50 f2.8, no Tokina 16-50 f2.8, no Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 macro, no Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS USM), and a Canon 70-200 f4 L (half the weight of an f2.8).

So, I chose a travel light, high quality DSLR setup, and it shows in the photos I made. With a compact photo case where everything only just fitted, it was ok. And a polarized light filter that fitted both lenses.

Compared to an S2 IS, the case is a lot less easy to take along. But... the images were totally worth it. And I did use the wider angle a lot, and 200mm could have been a bit longer at times, but we made do with it fine.
Now I would consider a 70-300 IS USM, but the use of a polarizer would have been quite difficult on that lens (rotating front element).

[sandytrail]

Thanks for the detailed and helpful replies!!!
Yes I have considerd the Sony and the Pentax...although after ALOT of research I have put if down to the Nikon and the Canon.
I do realise that the Sony may be compatible with some of my lenses (some of them are more than 20years old). Although I think that the Nikon and Canon are slightly superior and my minolta lenses aren't ideal for travel anyway.

Thanks RichNY for your reply about bringing a good digital zoom compact. I did think about this seriously although in the end I really do believe that a dSLR is best for me. One of my primary purposes for my travel is going to be photography! I'm going to study visual communications or something similar after my gap year so it's very important that I have a good camera to take some wonderful shots :-).
I do realise the practically factor and I will also be bringing along my p&s canon SD700 just for snapshots of friends and things.

Coldrain, I believe that it a vital point you made about choosing quality and weight/size. The D80 and 400D seem to be both of these (The D80 being slightly larger - although I do prefer the build)
I think I am leaning towards the D80 as I just seem to perfer the whole build and interface of the camera. I like the fact that it has an LCD on the top aswell as one on the back. It also has a very big, bright viewfinder which I think will be great when composing a shot. Still have a few months to decide, got a long way to go before I reach that €1,200.

Thanks for all the advice!! Joyce

[RichNY]

Coldy- I didn't bring the 70-200 with me. I was complaining about taking along the 30D/grip (although I sometimes left the grip back in the hotel), the 17-55, 10-22, & 580 flash. (I also brought my 85mm but didn't use it and usually left it back in the hotel.)

I could have gotten by with just the 10-22 but I did find the 17-55 to be the right lens for the New Year's concert in Vienna.

[coldrain]

I took my 350D, 18-50 f2.8 and 70-200 f4L, that is about it. All three compact, and quite light. I would not take a flash with me on vacations. Too bulky for too little use. Now I would also bring my 12-24mm Tokina though.