D40,50 or 80???

[lightinsky]

Hi, hope to get some opinions on getting a DSLR.

I used to have a F80, but it got stolen twice within 3 months. Yes I bought back the same one after losing it the first time. That was 3 yrs back, and have not done photography since. Really wanting to get back.

So here are my problems: Functions on D40 is ok, but the grip is too small, no LCD display, and the main LCD turns on when you release the shutter release and I don't think there's a way to turn off... Its really distracting when you want to continue taking shots instead reviewing or checking the settings. Worst, it cannot support autofocus on AF lenses, eg the prime 50mm f/1.8. And I really liked this lens the last time I used it.

So then I'm thinking about D50, but was concerned that it might not be the "latest" technology, and has a smaller screen, which is a big minus for me. and no in-camera editing. But it has a nicer grip, and has the in-camera auto-focus.
1) Can anyone shed some light on the technology that D50 uses as compared to the newer D40? eg CCD, metering etc...?? Does it lose out a lot??
2) I've never used in-camera editing before, but thought that it will come in useful for doing some quick editing and reviewing to see if you are satisfied with the shots, if not you can take more... instead of having to go back and, but cannot get your final desired frame. So question is, by experience, how much of this function do you actually use out in the field?? And is it more necessity or a good-to-have function?
3) I guess the i'll have to over-come the issue of smaller screen myself.
4) Would the D50 be a little "old model" to buy now?? (now that technology improves so fast...)

Well, last is the D80, which has everything... but... the price is a little steep for me right now... but thinking that i might (but very hard) be able to squeeze out some more money and get this, which would prob(??) go a longer way???

Any views are appreciated. Thanks. I've been debating over this issue too much... Need to make a decision soon.

Cheers

[jcon]

Stay away from the D40. In my opinion, its a body that never should have made it off the "creative table".

I really dont know your shooting needs but I would suggest the D50. Simply because its "older" doesnt mean its going to stop working when a newer model comes out.

I really dont understand why people come here and make a big deal about the LCD screen size. Its close to pointless on DSLRs as you use the viewfinder to compose the shots. Its only for reviewing and the menu. Unless you use it for in-camera editing, which to me, is a waste of time, but as you said, you may find use for it.

Since the D80 would be a pinch for you, in your own words, I suggest the D50 and use the extra money for a nice piece of glass and possibly a speedlight flash, either the SB-600 or SB-800.

That 50mm prime is an excellent lens!

[lightinsky]

Thanks, Jason.

Yah, I wasn't sure about the whether the screen size would be a big factor. I heard that reviewing pictures immediately after you take them would "improve" your skills a lot, so naturally, assumed that a bigger screen would be better for reviewing... As for editing, I kinda agree its not so useful editing on the camera itself... further, i'm not so much into editing my pictures(or rather, I haven't done it much either), even on a computer... you can get a better picture by editing, but its not the picture you capture though... well, this is more philosophy already.. and would not go into it here...

Thanks for your views!

I loved the prime too!

[jcon]

The edited picture not being what you really captured is a debate weve had here a little while ago, a couple weeks I think. Most agree that photography is what you see and how you interpret the capture. Its art, art is open to the imagination.

If we all saw the world with the same eyes, I personally think it would be a very boring life.

As you mentioned though, its all personal opinion, if you feel you dont prefer editing a photo, thats your choice but for me and some others here, you can open up so much more in a photo by editing it.

Sorry for getting off track... the D50 is still a better camera than the D40:D

[sbnr]

I just got my D50 in the mail and I love the way it feels....definately sturdier than a D40, imo.

Go for the D50, you won't be sorry. The lens and the person composing the shot are what make the pix good - not the digi body.

[mugsisme]

If you can wait a few days, Nikon is supposed to be announcing their new stuff at PMA. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=22252337

The thread has gotten very long.

I own the D40, and totally love it. Then again, I have only had it for three weeks, and I am one of those point and shoot people that Nikon was aiming that camera at.

Leah
Nikon D40
SB 600 flash
55-200mm lens (on the way)
Fuji F10

[rawpaw18]

If you can not pull the trigger on the D80, then I would go with the
old school D50 over the D40. It is bigger, just feels better to me and you will have it in your hands for long periods of time. It has an internal motor whereas the D40 does not. Might not seem like a big deal now until you go to buy inexpensive lenses without af-s or hsm in them( such as the 50 1.8)

[Rooz]

the d40 has recieved great reviews from users and dp. it is by all accounts an excellent entry level dslr camera despite the poo-poo'ing. if you can get it cheap then i think its a great buy.

if your budget is limited and you are not going to accumulate lens i;d be tempted to go a d40 and get a kickass lens. thsi is by FAR the most important thing in your set up and the really trick lens are AFS anyway. the body you can change in a couple of years if you deside dslr is for you but a great lens will be with you forever.

in camera editing is a crock imo. never used it. the only thing i find more pointless is the incamera slideshow with "music" which i find so gadgety and almost pointless i had to check my camera was a nikon and not a sony. the big screen though, i find invaluable.

[tcadwall]

Since you already have lenses, the D40 would NOT be a good choice in my opinion ESPECIALLY since you have and love the 50mm (MOST OF US DO).

Ok so I assume that you have scratched that one off.

I have been very impressed with the images I have seen here on this forum that were shot with D50 cameras. I have the old-school D70s (which is similar in age to the D50 and in between the D50 and D80 for features) - these cameras take great pictures.

I am not familiar with the f80 and right now in too much rush to look this up... But did the F80 have an aperture control on the front (index or middle right finger)? as well as the Shutter-speed control on the back(right thumb)? If you are used to using this, or value their presence it is one of the big differences of the D80 and the D50 as far as USE and feel. Of course the D80 is slightly bigger and to me has a better feel / balance.

Also the D80 has more flash capability as it can control wireless flash units without the need for a mounted controller. The new speedlight system is quite amazing!!!

Of course you have other things that are higher on the D80 it is faster in burst mode if that is important. I don't really want to list all of the differences... But depending on your lens collection and whether you would have to buy any glass - maybe splurging on the D80 and an SB600 would be the way to go for you since you already have the photography background.

That said, the D50 is very capable, and hands-down I recommend it over the D40. Only you can decide whether you need the additional features of the D80 over the D50. Either way, while you consider budget, definitely make the SB-600 a priority. I don't recall anyone ever posting here wishing they hadn't gotten the SB-600 or SB-800. But when people add it to their camera after being without it in the begining they often say that if they knew what they had been missing they would have bought it up front.

[XaiLo]

From what you have stated, I'd say the D40 would be a compromise new tech vs actual desire. Personally I own the D40 and purchased it for a specific purpose, it's small and light wieght... takes great pics luv it. The D50 will do the job, but I'm going to say get the D80 I think you'll have more confidence in your investment and more fun... and that's what it's all about. ;) congrats.

[jcon]

I agree with all that said the D80(F80 to Tcad:p ) would be a step up over the D50, however the OP mentioned it would be tight to get the D80, So I think it would be wise to get the cheaper D50 and use the money towards another good lens to go along with the already owned 50mm.

Tcad, I know you were in a hurry, just givin you a hard time:D

[Kellie]

I think he meant to say F80. The OP said he used to own one and tcad was wondering how it compared feature-wise to the D50 and D80. :D

I just looked at a picture of the F80 and it does have a front command dial. That is one thing I totally love about the D80 over the D40/D50. I shoot in manual or aperture priority most of the time and much prefer to have a dial dedicated to aperture rather than having to push a button while rotating the rear dial.

I also love the large LCD even if it is only for reviewing.

But either the D50 or D80 will be great and I wouldn't recommend the D40 since you already have the 50mm.

[jcon]

Yea, youre right Kellie:( Damn, I was hoping to get him back for the HDTV thing....

Watch your back Mr.Cad:D :p

[LR Max]

I'd say bypass the D40 simply because I doubt any of your current lenses would work on it (full capacity work on it).

Go look at them. Its not like they aren't available at every chain camera store out there. I'd personally go with the D80 since it has two command wheels and everything seems to be right at your fingertips. But thats just me.

[lightinsky]

Hi all,

First of all thanks for all your views and suggestions!!! It had definitely helped me lots!!! You bunch definitely make up very welcoming forum, all very thoughtful and helpful. (Btw: I looked at dpreview forum as well, some are really good, but some of them are outright inmature!!!) It's so much better after "talking" over this..

Sorry, I won't be able to reply each of your view on its own, but here are my collected thoughts:

1) Some clarification, I did have the 50 1.8 before, but guess which lens was on my F80 when it got stolen?? Yup, the prime... sad but true.

2) I have some experience, over a year or so.., but not a whole lot, was still pretty new to the game... when my F80 got stolen.. So I didn't accumulate lenses at all. Used the prime a whole LOT.

3) Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I think will definitely get D50 over D40 (no offense to D40 users), as most of you have highlighted strong reasons enough, and I agree with all. One of the strong reasons, among others, as some of you have pointed out, is the use and feel. I guess if I haven't used an SLR before, the D40 would be fine, but the D40 grip somehow feels too small, and I don;t have a firm grip at all. My index fingers feels really awkward. (yup, i spent lots of time at the stores already, I think the salesman know me!!!)

4) As for the D50, it feels much better.., but don't have the aperture dial as the F80 had. I definitely wish to have that dial, but I think I might learn to able to live with it. Except that the D50 does not have a backlight. Might seem a trivial thing, but I used to do a bit a night and star shots, and the backlight came in really handy, almost necessary!!! Other than that, its pretty similar to F80, with the 5-point focus.

5) However, I've been more and more convinced to just take the pinch and go for the D80. Like what tacdwall said, it has more flash capability etc etc... And i know I'm the kind that always goes.."I wish I had...." If I get the D50, I can just imagine myself cursing to myself that it does not have a backlight when doing night shots... or "I wish I had that aperture dial"...etc... So am seriously thinking of getting the D80.

6) I know some of u will say that the lenses are much more important... Its ture, I recognize that.. But haven't played enough with different kinds of lenses to say " I wish I had gotten D50 and that that 18-200 VR":D :D :D

7) So I'm thinking D80 body, with 50 1.8 prime. The kit lenses does not come with much discount anyway. I remembered I had the 28-80, but seldom use it at all. So I'm thinking the 18-55 won't do me much good for a start. So question is, does the 18-135 come in really useful?? I'm thinking that a combination of 18-55 and 70-300 would be a better??

8) Either this, or D50, with 50 1.8 prime, and other stuff...

[jcon]

If the backlight and the aperture dial are important to you, and they sound like they are, get the D80. The prime that you HAD is roughly $100 new! As you know, that is one hell of a lens!

I cant comment on the 18-135mm because I havent used one and havent heard much about it. I have heard good things about the 18-55mm, though. I guess it depends what you plan to photograph. Will you need a good wide end or will you needa longer tele? Either way I think the 50mm prime and one of the speedlights(SB-600 or SB-800) should be at the top of all your lists!

Good luck, youre on the right track!




**You may also want to go to PBase.com and check out sample photos taken with any lens you are considering.

[swgod98]

What about waiting for the possibility of a D60 announcement in a few days? It will probably be dead smack in the middle of the D50/D80...Probably the perfect compromise for the OP (if it is released).

I actually waited for the D80 to be released to see if it would be worth getting. Turned out to have most of what I was interested in and got it the day it was released. Can't say I'm too dissapointed...shoot, not at all :D

[jcon]

I may be wrong here but its been my understanding that when there is an announcement, there is a bit of time between the announcement and the actual release date.

[swgod98]

there is a bit of time between the announcement and the actual release date.

You are correct...just a thought, if he's willing to wait. I think the D60 will have a lot of nice things on top of what the D50 offers. Time will tell. And if he can wait for the announcement, he'll know if it will be worth it (for him).

[coldrain]

Do take into consideration that the D80 or D50 has a more narrow field of view. The smaller sensor with the 1.5x crop factor will make the 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens.

So, do not expect the same results as you had with your F80 and a 50mm f1.8.

If you want a lens that will be as versatile as the 50mm f1.8 on the F80, get a Nikon 35mm f2. It will give a view very similar: 35 x 1.5 = 52.5mm.

So... a D50 or D80 + Nikon 35mm f2 seems to be a great starting point to replace your F80 +50mm f1.8.

[tcadwall]

If there IS a D60 release soon, there is a good chance that it wouldn't make a difference in his decision. It would lower the price of the D50, but it would come in at an introduction price. Good chance D80 prices will fall some due to competition to non-Nikon bodies by then. This would mean that the OP would probably still want the D80. This all assumes that the D60 continues with similar functionality to the D50 but with better sensor, etc. Heck they might even have to bring out a D50s to keep the delineation amongst their line.

IOW, I wouldn't wait, if I was really preferring to get the D80. If I was heavily leaning toward the D50, I would possibly wait and see.


Yea, youre right Kellie:( Damn, I was hoping to get him back for the HDTV thing....LOL!!!:cool:

Kellie was right - Sorry. I have to admit, I wasn't into film SLR's so I was assuming that camera might have the aperture dial - wasn't sure - normally I would take the opportunity to learn and look it up... But I was in a rush.


Watch your back Mr.Cad:D :p
That is GREAT!!! I love this board! Come and get it!!! I make enough mistakes you shouldn't have any problem finding one!;)

[lightinsky]

Thanks again for your suggestions.

I think I will just wait for the announcement first, just to make sure there are no surprises. Its next 8-11 march right? My fingers are getting really itchy though:D :D

But unless something drastic is announced, I prob counldn't wait the time lag (3-6 month??)

I did think of the 1.5 factor for focal length. Would I be correct then to say that 18-55 would be "equivalent" to a 28-80?? As for the 50mm prime, seeing how so many people continue to use it, even now that its "75mm" , I don't see how it can go wrong. Plus the price of $100 over the $300 for 35 f2 (especially my current tight budget) swings the balance to the 50 mm.

So anyone faced sever limitations for the 50 mm? given the 1.5 factor?

[Kellie]

So anyone faced sever limitations for the 50 mm? given the 1.5 factor?

I thought I did at first. Then I learned to stop being lazy and zoom with my feet. :D I thought it was too long to get shots of all three children indoors. It is on occasion, but I just learned to back up. It's great for one person at a time and I'm even looking into getting a longer prime.

About the release of a new body...I thought Nikon usually replaced bodies every 18-24 months and the D40 was (sort of) a replacement for the D50? At least Thom Hogan thinks so: http://www.bythom.com/currentdslr.htm The D80 is still so new that I don't think it would be in Nikon's best interest to release a lower model.

[lightinsky]

yup, thats what I learnt last time.. you could just zoom with your feet.... correct me if i'm wrong, this is some time back, but I kinda remember 28-80 is a few steps to the front or back... so unless limited by space... the 50 can dp pretty much the same range???

[coldrain]

Well, you are wrong on three counts...
1st: a 50mm will be 75mm, so it does not sit snuggly between 28 and 80mm.

2nd: 28-80 is a lot more than just a few steps. 28 is actually really quite wide angle, and you can never get that by taking "a few steps back" with 75mm.
80mm is a head shot, 28mm is a room overview shot.

Take a peek here:
www.tamroneurope.com/flc.htm

3rd: Not only the distance is different, but also the field of view. 80mm has a narrow field of view, and as such the photo will have a totally different look with a subject filling the frame than with 28mm with the same subject filling the frame. There really is a place for different fields of view, it influences the feel of a photograph a lot.

If you are used to a "standard" prime with its field of view basically the same as the human eye, you will not be able to get the same results with a 75mm lens. From width of view, depth perception, perspective and depth of field, everything will be different.

This does NOT mean that you can not be happy with a 50mm f1.8 lens. My point was just that you should NOT expect the 50mm lens to be the same as what you are used to, and that a 35mm lens would be more appropriate because of that. If you were me I'd get them both... and a D50 instead of a D80 since your budget is limitted at the moment.
You can always upgrade the body when you come to a point that you feel the need to do that.

[Chile]

If you decide to go with any Nikon Camera, you can get the 1.4 30mm HSM from Sigma. It is closer (actually, a little wider) than the 50mm 1.8 on a film body, and fast too.

[lightinsky]

Thanks for all the tips.. I will keep these in mind while considering....

[lightinsky]

Hi all,

I finally made my decision... just placed an order with B&H for D80 body with 50 1.8 prime. I couldn't wait any longer until after the PMA... I don;t think its going to change my decision anyway... and it will be too long a wait for me till it launches...

I think this set-up will keep me busy for a little while... to get a feel of the limitations so that I can think of what else I need... flash, what lenses and so on... whether i need wider or longer lens... I don't even have fixed shooting habits yet!!! (coldrain, the site was indeed useful... frankly... i can't remember how the much the angle varies with focal length after all these years!!)

Well, thanks, folks for all the pointers.. they had indeed been a great help for me to see the various points of views.. I'll definitely be needing more help:D :D :D

Cheers... hope the camera comes quick... heard B&H were quite efficient...

[XaiLo]

Yes they are :) received my D40 in a couple of days from them. excellent service.

[Rooz]

congrats on your new toy. am sure you will be happy with it and you know that lens well by the sounds of things. i love it and almost always use it for portrait style photos. :)

[Bob_Benner]

Just heard a rumor that a D40x will be released on Wednesday. It will shoot quicker and has the 10.2mp scensor like the D200.

[jcon]

Bob, care to share where you heard that? I find that hard to believe.

[Rooz]

apparently tis not a rumour.

http://www.photoreview.com.au/news/productnews/preview-nikon-d40x.aspx

[jcon]

Hmmmmmmm.....

[Bob_Benner]

I was at my local camera shop before going to shoot today and a couple employees were talking about it. When I got home I checked Ken Rockwells website and sure enough he it was on his "whats new page".

[Bob_Benner]

Just did a search on google and it is all over the place, check it out.

[jcon]

Jeff has already put a page up for it here on the site. Appears to have the same lens crippling as the regular D40, so its pointless. I wanna hear about a D3 or D200s:cool:

[T06]

Jeff has already put a page up for it here on the site. Appears to have the same lens crippling as the regular D40, so its pointless. I wanna hear about a D3 or D200s:cool:

Don't you dare say that.:D I'll send the nuns around to wash that mouth out with soap & water.:D :D

[lightinsky]

But I think the D40x is going to have mass appeal... imagine 10 mp, that's gonna push a lot of consumers to get it.. plus all the user-friendly features.. And I think Nikon is aiming at just that as well..

[tcadwall]

To me it (D40x) is an admission of failure. Ok... flame on. But *I* think it is a gimmick. It is the same camera with more megapixels - oh and maybe faster. Big deal.

I think the "gimmick" part of it, is that a lot of newbies that don't know any better are going to be tempted to go with it for the two reasons mentioned. Since sales may have already been slower with it than expected (and return rates were probably higher as well), there is now a little more reason to buy/hold onto it over say "upgrading" to the older D50.

In my opinion they would have greatly increased their old D40 sales by adding a couple more AF-S lenses to their lineup... Like a 50mm f/1.8 AF-S maybe?

[Chile]

I think the Nikon D40x more directly targets the Canon XTI model, and the market at that price range. I also agree that more AF-S lenses in the lower price range would have been a great decision too, but that will come in time....

I also think the two bodies with no AF motor underscore Nikon's eventual direction in terms of design. Every Nikon DSLR mentioned in this topic ships with an AF-S lens in the kit version. As for 10 megapixels vs 6 megapixels, excellent 11x14 prints can be had from either with the 18-55 lens. Better glass can produce excellent 16x20 prints from either.

[jcon]

Don't you dare say that.:D I'll send the nuns around to wash that mouth out with soap & water.:D :D

LMAO. I think the nuns would have a heart attack if they stepped foot into the same room as me!:o



To me it (D40x) is an admission of failure. Ok... flame on. But *I* think it is a gimmick. It is the same camera with more megapixels - oh and maybe faster. Big deal.

I think the "gimmick" part of it, is that a lot of newbies that don't know any better are going to be tempted to go with it for the two reasons mentioned. Since sales may have already been slower with it than expected (and return rates were probably higher as well), there is now a little more reason to buy/hold onto it over say "upgrading" to the older D50.

In my opinion they would have greatly increased their old D40 sales by adding a couple more AF-S lenses to their lineup... Like a 50mm f/1.8 AF-S maybe?

I agree completely! If this turns out to be the "big announcement".. what a huge dissapoinment

[tcadwall]

As for 10 megapixels vs 6 megapixels, excellent 11x14 prints can be had from either with the 18-55 lens.
At first I thought you were disagreeing. Sure I see that the 10MP can compare closer to the XTi... Which Nikon had not answered at all, since the only thing to compare to the XTi was the D80 and IMO not a real close comparison.

However, looking like, saying, expecting, etc. (AFS) are all nice. But I won't recommend the D40 to several friends in the market due to the fact that these friends would very likely want the basic 50mm f/1.8 lens and possibly others that aren't on the compatible list. So in this case, doing would help a lot more than appearing, or in the future, etc.


If this turns out to be the "big announcement"..
I doubt that it is a big announcement by any stretch of the term. I think we are going to see a D3. And further, if the rumors of 90% FF are true, then some people might have to give up their 17-55mm f/2.8 lenses in order to upgrade. And what about the 12-24mm? :p