My first B&W - opinions please

[FlexiPack]

After reading an article about B&W photography in fave photography mag (Digital SLR Photography if you're curious) and after seeing some great work by others in B&W I've decided to have a go.

I'd been put off before now as i only knew about desaturate in photoshop. This always left my images lacking in depth, contrast and everthing else. So armed with new knowledge i've used an adjustment channel mixer layer.

I'd like your opinions on a couple of things. First off what you think of my B&W. I was quite happy with it, but my mum didn't like it. She liked one with very white leaves - this left no detail on the leaves though.

Secondly does the orginal colour one look too saturated on your screens? I did the PP on my laptop for that one and it looked fine there but i've recently got a new LCD screen for my Desktop and a few of my pics look too saturated.

- i know screen calibration, but it's expensive. For now if most of you think it's too saturated i'll use my desktop as a frame of reference and vice versa if you don't think it is.

Anyway i've waffled on enough now.. on to the shots..

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/Mcflynnster/IMG_0706PPBW.jpg

Original..

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/Mcflynnster/IMG_0706PP.jpg

exif: 1/80, f/8, ISO 400

[forno]

Might be just a touch oversharpened

Disclaimer:- I am a B&W newbie:D

[aparmley]

IMHO - This is entirely subjective - but, I think you pushed the image a little too far. I'm not sure what you did to edit it so I can't tell you where you may have gone wrong. Too much Contrast?? IDK

with your permission I'll post a BW version of the color image you posted and show you exactly what I did if you think you'd care to see that sorta stuff?

[XaiLo]

you can just choose a channel and convert it to grayscale.
hope you don't mind.
this is a green/blue calculation... screened with the blue channel, and an opaqued green channel on top of the screen.

http://www.designsbyxailo.com/thepics/2007/01_jan/bwleaves.jpg

[aparmley]

IMHO - This is entirely subjective - but, I think you pushed the image a little too far. I'm not sure what you did to edit it so I can't tell you where you may have gone wrong. Too much Contrast?? IDK

with your permission I'll post a BW version of the color image you posted and show you exactly what I did if you think you'd care to see that sorta stuff?

you can just choose a channel and convert it to grayscale.
hope you don't mind.
this is a green/blue calculation... screened with the blue channel, and an opaqued green channel on top of the screen.

http://www.designsbyxailo.com/thepics/2007/01_jan/bwleaves.jpg

See I just asked permission and XaiLo just fired away. XaiLo just lost 5 DCRP points. :D

[XaiLo]

Sorrry :o ... Bad Bad XaiLo. :eek: lol

by the time I saw your post apmarley I had
already hit the submit button lol forno's post
was the last one when I clicked on reply.

I'm just a pp junkie lol :D

[aparmley]

Sorrry :o ... Bad Bad XaiLo. :eek: lol

LoL . .

[adam75south]

what's the difference between what you did and....say...adding a gradient map? i've always been a fan of the gradient map, but don't really understand channels though.

[cwphoto]

I'm just a pp junkie lol :D

Wanna job?

I'm a reluctant PPer.

[D Thompson]

what's the difference between what you did and....say...adding a gradient map? i've always been a fan of the gradient map, but don't really understand channels though.

You can fine tune a b&w a lot with a channel mixer layer in CS2. First click on channels and take a look at the individual channels as this will give you an ideal of what each has to offer (don't forget to click back on the rgb to make them all active again. After you get the channel mixer box up, check monochrome down at the bottom. That will change your output channel to gray and the source channels will be red-100%, green-0%, and blue-0%. Change the percentages and you will see the differences. Try to keep the total at 100%, although it's ok to go over/under. You can always adjust the constant slider also.

[aparmley]

what's the difference between what you did and....say...adding a gradient map? i've always been a fan of the gradient map, but don't really understand channels though.

I like to do a little of both ;)

[XaiLo]

Wanna job?

I'm a reluctant PPer.

Cash? yes I like cash... what did you have in mind? :)

[XaiLo]

i've always been a fan of the gradient map, but don't really understand channels though.

Channels are simple in an RGB color space you have three channels one red, one green, one blue, when a sensor captures a picture it records only luminance values for each channel. By combining those luminance values any output device can replicate the initially captured pixel. let's say you have a picture that is all white except for for one red pixel.

The luminance values that it takes to create the red pixel is as follows:

the luminance value of the red channel is 255

the luminance value of the green channel is 36

the luminance value of the blue channel is 0

The luminance values that it takes to create all the white pixels is as follows:

the luminance value of the red channel is 255

the luminance value of the green channel is 255

the luminance value of the blue channel is 255

Since you're familar with gradients the rest is easy. a RGB gray scale gradient is only capable of producing 256 variations of gray because it is a 8bit channel or 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2=256 if you make a gradient you can see all of the available luminace values.

what's the difference between what you did and....say...adding a gradient map?

one is linear and the other is more dynamic. by using a gradient the most one can accomplish is one end or part of the picture being lighter or darker. On the other hand by manipulating different channels through combination and layers I can manipulate the complete tonal range to my likeing. hth:)

[FlexiPack]

See I just asked permission and XaiLo just fired away. XaiLo just lost 5 DCRP points. :D

Can i have those 5 points? :D

I'm happy for anyone to take the shot and have a go but thanks for asking parmley - i'd still like to see your edit as well if you don't mind

I was wondering at the time if i'd pushed it too far, I just found that once i'd pushed it, going back seemed a bit dull and flat - kind of like looking at an original shot after you've PP'd it - you know what i mean?

I like yours XaiLo, it looks more natural yet retains the punch i was looking for. I'm going to try replicate what you've done just to make sure i follow what you wrote

Forno: i did apply a second USM after i'd converted it to B&W, it was a low%, high radius and it seemed to add extra contrast and bring out the detail on the leaves but if you spotted it I must've pushed it too far. USM should be not noticeable.

thanks for your input guys! :D

[XaiLo]

Oh yeah, he spotted it alright. :eek: lol jk
I did not use any sharpening.
My gallery has a black and white section you might want to check out.

[aparmley]

Here is my quick go at it:

http://Parmley.smugmug.com/photos/124036519-M.jpg

First thing I did was use a gradient map

http://Parmley.smugmug.com/photos/124036547-L.jpg

Then I used the channel mixer:

http://Parmley.smugmug.com/photos/124036528-L.jpg

And to add a little more interest to the image I applied some levels to the image last.

http://Parmley.smugmug.com/photos/124036538-L.jpg

Thats all I did. clearly i didn't spend any time with it really. I prefer this image in color. But I figured maybe this would give you some options in the future, things to try.

[JMWallace]

I'm a reluctant PPer.

...hhmmmm, does the reluctance increase the colder it gets? hahahhaa:D

I do think they have medications to help that!;)