1st real wedding

[Vich]

Had a blast!

B&G very warm, albiet Groom started a bit cool then got to be old buddies. They invited us into the limo for champane and a ride to beach - 3 hour round trip with sunset portriats.

They lost (somehow forfited) their hotel reservations but no worries, called wify from the limo and she found them Hotels.com ocean view 4-star hotel for just $280 (while we did the sunset shots), sort of topped off a hugely successful evening.

IF EVERY WEDDING WERE LIKE THIS ONE, SIGN ME UP!

I messed up my camera settings to no end, but made up for it in numbers. Frankly; the ceremony shots are boring compared with some of the "after" shots.

Amazing how fast everything goes. 10:30 wedding started me out at 6:30 and I was still futzing with stuff at 10:00 (after some set-up and other shots). We made all sorts of rookie mistakes like but all's well since we recorded most of the really importent moments.

Exposure was my main nemisis. I need about 200 hours of practice under pressure, but mostly they were correctable.

They hired a "pro" with more experience for the ceremony and formals. Shoot-n-burn lady for 3 hours. What a bore! We had to "stay out of her way" and she picked the worst spots, made them stiff and nervous, took forever for the boring formals that in my opinion were worthless.

There were huge (for a 60 person wedding anyway) processions of happy hugging crying friends and relatives and she breaks it up to "go do the formals". I tagged along for some but ....

... (snore) ... So we divided it into 2 parts. "Documenting everything" then "artistic fun shooting". Actually; I went around taking "portriats" that went very well, but the formals ... Andy, I hear ya!

Anyway; I went through a couple of cards (shot 6 in all, 200 each) and here's some samples.

http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/123296458-L.jpg

http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/123296449-L.jpg

http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/123296464-L.jpg

http://FLASHME.smugmug.com/photos/123296445-L.jpg

[zmikers]

Nice to get the first one out of the way eh? Hopefuly many more to come. I love the sunset shot the most. Well done. Post some more when they're ready, I'd love to see them. Congrats!:D

[timmciglobal]

Let me preface these comments with "I'm being meaner then I could be just to help you" I'm sure I'd of done worse in your shoes.

Pic 1 the background is too distracting behind the limo I'd blur it in photoshop.
Pic 2 the banister verticals arn't straight, rotate them till they are.
Pic 3 I don't like how bright the sky is and how dark faces are. Bring up the brightness on the faces and drop the sky/gravel down especially on right hand side sky is blown.
Pic 4 Too dark imho but otherwise ok, I don't like that the guy to left is looking RIGHT at the camera I'd cut him out.

Tim

[cwphoto]

That's a great start Vich, I'll give the prize to number 1 (in a perfect world there could be more background blur, but this is a candid where timing is critical - and I think you timed this one well as I love the looks on their faces).

Tim's advice is sound in an ideal world, and we should always be conscious of improving, but you will probably understand me more than ever now having shot one about how much of a compromise you sometimes have to make at a wedding - and how switched-on you need to be to manage all these variables which the event throws at you.

Glad you enjoyed it, when's the next one?! :D

[achuang]

I like your shots Vich, I hope my wedding photos come out as good as that for a first time too. My first wedding is in just under 2 weeks, Jan 28th. It's for a friend....and there's no pro photographer at the wedding. There me and 2 other friends, so instead of staying out of the way of the pro, it'll be fighting with the other 2 for shots. I'll definitely have to talk to them beforehand to sort out who's taking what. You did very well.

Andrew

[boog]

Very nice shots Vich. I can't be very picky as I've shot one wedding as well and your braver than I am about posting. My only thing I'll say is crop out crown molding on #2(top of picture). Otherwise, bravo for first wedding! I guess it's suppose to get easier.

[jamison55]

Congrats man! It's a huge milestone to get that first one under your belt!

Tim gave some really great feedback, though I'm not as bothered by the background in #1. To me it gives it a sense of "urban reality", and it would have been fun to include with more of the shots.

My favorite is the sunset shot, but you really needed a bit more FEC to properly fill them. At my first paid wedding, I attempted a shot just like that with the same results! I've since learned the secret formula:

1) In P mode point the camera at the sky and check the settings the camera chooses (with the flash off).

2) Dial those same settings in to M mode.

3) Turn on your flash on and add from +1 to +2 FEC as needed...once again watching your histogram and keeping your FEC settings just under the point where the highlights start to blink.

Since the even has already been captured, there's a lot you can do in post processing to add fill. I recommend the Kubota Artistic Pack Volume II. It has a great action called "Digital Fill Flash" which allows you to paint in fill where you need it. I took a shot at your beach photo with the digital fill flash action, then hit the imae with another action from the pack called "Daily Multi Vitamin" to give it a little extra punch:

[aparmley]

I told you vich - mood killers! Those damn (fools)formals. . . I don't get it. In all reality I suppose its one of those things I don't "Have to get." Nothing gags me worse than seeing a "line-up" shot.

You had fun during your first one, thats all that matters. The first one is under your belt; keep moving forward, learn from your mistakes, I'm sure I don't need to point any out as I'm pretty sure you'll know what you wish you would have done instead.

Congrats!

[Vich]

Wow, thanks all!

I liked all these shots, but I think the best is yet to come. It was a long day. I didn't touch "Photoshop", these were just RAW conversions with some RSP levels and cropping.

Tim - love the detailed critique! Trust me, those blunders were the least of them, haha, but this was definately done for the learning experience and technical feedback helps a lot. However; I'll go with Jamison on the urban color - mainly owing to the personality of the B&G, I think they'll like it as well. As for cropping the best man - they're lifelong friendship is a beautiful thing to witness - his improptude speach brought a lump. I wouldn't have the heart to crop him and for a wedding, .... they won't mind. However; for my portfolio - great call and I will.

CW - your encouraging words (wipes tear from eye), "thanks man" ... (but you're still not getting my Bud Light ... American joke). Seriously; you're so right. I went on like a musician who misses notes, the rythm is still 90% of the music. In fact; I've got some really great blured shots I'll post for them because I love the artistic aspect, but sparingly - I want the bulk to be solid.

Jamison - I'll be gettng that (Kubota) - and I plan on going to practice your technique until I've gotten it.

achuang, zmikers, boog, thanks for your comments too.

My biggest disappointment was in squandering the Bridal posing opportunitities on the staircase. I simply could not strike a good pose. Last night I found a shot of a B&G sitting and looking through the banisters - I think that having it to do over again I'd go for that sort of fun stuff. So when the grandkids look at them 60 years later they'll see them with new respect. And get some stoic ones first, just to be save.

My co-shooter (Stephanie) blew me away with her skills.

Oh; CW. Next is in about 5 weeks, then gain 3 weeks after that. Another bride was inquiring for a March 17th one but was waiting to see results (although she's probably moved on by now).

These first 3 were next to freebies - just for practice. The first (yesterday's) had another pro there so the pressure would be off, but the next 2 are just me. Still; the contracts are very forgiving.

The March 3 one has a very fun bride and I think fun crowd too. I'm going to try talking them out of the obligatory formals and I won't be surprised if she agrees immediately.

Will post more in a few days.

[24Peter]

Congrats Vich. Nice first effort. Take stock of the comments here and then on to the next. ;)

[adam75south]

vich i hope my first wedding will be half as good as this one. congrats.

p.s. i like the background in the first one as well.

[Vich]

Andy, Peter; thanks for chiming in! Nice to get the support.

Andy; yeah, mood killer. I'll make it a point to put the "round-up" duties on the Client - I'll go along with it and direct things, but don't want "party pooper" to become part of my job description.

It's got to be possible to make it smoother and more like our fun time on the staircase (obviously; the whole family showed anyway). One has to wonder ... what do they do with all those lineup shots anyway? Can't we just do the key shots and spend more unrushed effort on creating a photo more frame-worthy?

Funny; the night before I thought I'd be nervous. I was feeling so confident and ready. Don't know why - I knew my technical camera stuff still needed work. Maybe it's because I had so much backup, maybe because the Bride was so friendly (after initial giant red flags of really bad communication and general flakiness). I'm sure part of it is because my contract was so one-sided so I didn't worry about repercussion from missed shots although for me the pressure is equally a moral one (to do a great job for them). Anyway; hope the next 2 are as smooth.

I think with the portfolio and referral material from these I'll start getting paid better too. My first year will be focused on honing the necessary skills though - and not getting backed into gigs that'll kill my excitement for it.

Knowing that it can be rewarding and a blast is a great encouragement!



Congrats man! It's a huge milestone to get that first one under your belt!

Tim gave some really great feedback, though I'm not as bothered by the background in #1. To me it gives it a sense of "urban reality", and it would have been fun to include with more of the shots.

My favorite is the sunset shot, but you really needed a bit more FEC to properly fill them. At my first paid wedding, I attempted a shot just like that with the same results! I've since learned the secret formula:

1) In P mode point the camera at the sky and check the settings the camera chooses (with the flash off).

2) Dial those same settings in to M mode.

3) Turn on your flash on and add from +1 to +2 FEC as needed...once again watching your histogram and keeping your FEC settings just under the point where the highlights start to blink.

Since the even has already been captured, there's a lot you can do in post processing to add fill. I recommend the Kubota Artistic Pack Volume II. It has a great action called "Digital Fill Flash" which allows you to paint in fill where you need it. I took a shot at your beach photo with the digital fill flash action, then hit the imae with another action from the pack called "Daily Multi Vitamin" to give it a little extra punch:
Jamison; thanks for the retouch!

I have to chuckle; in the limo the groom commented how "on photos my face is always pale and my nose red, why is that?". I refrained from any Rudolf jokes! Anyway, if I go with this sort of edit, I'll have to do some full-pixel touch-up.

Can I apply the Kubota stuff selectively - just on the skin - without it looking hoaky?

[jamison55]

...
Can I apply the Kubota stuff selectively - just on the skin - without it looking hoaky?

Sure can. The action uses the brush tool, so you just paint the area of the photo you want to lighten. I actually had to do it twice on the photo above. Once at full power, and once at 75%. The Kubota actions do everything in layers, so you can always adjust the strenght of the action by adjusting the opacity of the layer.


Now I gotta defent the "lineups". From a business standpoint they are big sellers. Think about it this way, how often are those people together, and all dressed up, and have a professional photographer on hand? The wedding may be the first time in years. So a nice portrait is something meaningful to the family. They don't have to be painful. It's all in the attitude of the photographer. Approach the lineups with enthusiasm, smile, joke, flatter, act like you are having fun, and the subjects will enjoy them too. Be prepared by making the couple come up with a list beforehand, and asking them to appoint someone to make sure that everyone is there (I call this person "the wrangler"). Then go down the list in a logical order, starting with the largest group, and dismissing people as soon as they are done, and they will love you. Where many photogs go wrong is that they start with the B&G and make everyone else stand around and watch - boring! I start with the largest group and work my way down to the B&G.

[adam75south]

I start with the largest group and work my way down to the B&G.
great advice, i would have never thought of that.

[Vich]

Sure can. The action uses the brush tool, so you just paint the area of the photo you want to lighten. I actually had to do it twice on the photo above. Once at full power, and once at 75%. The Kubota actions do everything in layers, so you can always adjust the strenght of the action by adjusting the opacity of the layer.


Now I gotta defent the "lineups". From a business standpoint they are big sellers. Think about it this way, how often are those people together, and all dressed up, and have a professional photographer on hand? The wedding may be the first time in years. So a nice portrait is something meaningful to the family. They don't have to be painful. It's all in the attitude of the photographer. Approach the lineups with enthusiasm, smile, joke, flatter, act like you are having fun, and the subjects will enjoy them too. Be prepared by making the couple come up with a list beforehand, and asking them to appoint someone to make sure that everyone is there (I call this person "the wrangler"). Then go down the list in a logical order, starting with the largest group, and dismissing people as soon as they are done, and they will love you. Where many photogs go wrong is that they start with the B&G and make everyone else stand around and watch - boring! I start with the largest group and work my way down to the B&G.

Thanks; I suppose I would only object if done as badly as the example I witnessed yesterday. "Professional photographer" is probably the operative word.

I think I'll suggest having champagne served to anyone waiting, haha.

My point was mainly on all the different combinations (ie: every possible combination). Also on how stoic they seem to be:

"ummm, should I do the Neapolitan hand-tuck or the Norman Rockwell pitch-fork pose"?

Why not just a few huge all-family portraits and 3 or 4 variations, then one of all of each (smaller) wedding party, then "see ya everyone" and maybe the best man and bride of honor stick around. So; maybe 10 shots in all then a 1/2 hour creative round with B&G at 3 or 4 locations and "The Wrangler" to hold the reflector - moving fast to visit all the great locations the venue has to offer.

Like you said; they're the money shots. For now; I'm a day-job professional not really hurting for the dollars so don't plan on big print mark-ups.

My other point was on breaking up the warm after-ceremony hugs and congratulations. I think accepting that and planning/scheduling for it is the key (and of course listening carefully for more words of the wisdom) :)

Anyway; my next bride (meeting tonight) has experience as a Wedding Coordinator herself and has promised to sort them out in an efficient sequence and provide a Wrangler.

I'll take your excited positive-attitude approach - really great advice - and I'm thinking it'll be just fine. Actually; formals is my main fear (besides more camera-exposure brain farts) so your words have been a great help!

[forno]

Good job mate, shooting a wedding is just way to scary for me to contemplate:o

[Vich]

Unbelievable luck!

On my next gig (5 weeks away) a local pro, who's also a daytime computer guy, has agreed to be my 2nd - and within my extremely modest budget :). What a dude! Well; he's a "pro" as in he gets $3K/gig weddings so must have something going for him, pretty well in the same boat as I want to be in.

He said he hates formals and won't get involved with that (his 2nd normally does those), and I'll be "in charge" for the whole event, but he'll stand by and give pointers, do his own PJ and Art Sessions, and revel in the opportunity for a no-pressure, no expectations, no real commitment apart from a few hours and turning over the images he does get. He'll also probably help with the E-Session to meet the B&G.

Anyway; it's not for sure since the details aren't worked out.

As a bonus; he takes Graphic Artist jobs on the side too. Not sure how deep that goes, but at least he's got some tricks to share.

Nice to have some help along the way :p :) :D . If I'm ever in such a position; I'll surely give a leg-up on the newcomers. It's so great that, as competitive as this business can become, there's still a lot of really wonderful people to meet along the way. This whole thing just gets better and better.

That's all, just thought I'd share. ;)

[D Thompson]

Vich - very nice shots. The only thing I might suggest is on the 3rd shot with the beach & sunset. IMO - it would be better if the couple were on the right & let the line of rocks lead into them instead of leading away from them. I see the couple and then the line of rocks leads my eyes away from them into the rest of the frame. Great job.

[Vich]

Vich - very nice shots. The only thing I might suggest is on the 3rd shot with the beach & sunset. IMO - it would be better if the couple were on the right & let the line of rocks lead into them instead of leading away from them. I see the couple and then the line of rocks leads my eyes away from them into the rest of the frame. Great job.
Thanks Dennis -

I had about 30 shots from our 2 stops along the coast. I think this was the best composition, but not the best exposure.

I'm thinking that since their heads and bodies curved right, it would be odd to not have the background right. However; it does create 2 main subjects. I'm not so sure what alternatives to do exactly, as I said, I had about 30 shots.

My co-shooter had better results. She was on f8 - it's that 5D high ISO thing again. I just refuse to go above ISO 400 unless forced, so opened up the lens somewhat. However; I think we had similar composition.

I'll look for one that leads the other way. Problem is I went North and missed the curve of the seashore.

One thing promising about this is that the seashore curve combined with the rock line creates a triangle ending on them. So; if I can fix the exposure so they're not so occluded in shadow, I'll have something frame-worthy, IMHO.

Thanks for looking!

[zmikers]

Unbelievable luck!

On my next gig (5 weeks away) a local pro, who's also a daytime computer guy, has agreed to be my 2nd - and within my extremely modest budget :). What a dude! Well; he's a "pro" as in he gets $3K/gig weddings so must have something going for him, pretty well in the same boat as I want to be in.

He said he hates formals and won't get involved with that (his 2nd normally does those), and I'll be "in charge" for the whole event, but he'll stand by and give pointers, do his own PJ and Art Sessions, and revel in the opportunity for a no-pressure, no expectations, no real commitment apart from a few hours and turning over the images he does get. He'll also probably help with the E-Session to meet the B&G.

Anyway; it's not for sure since the details aren't worked out.

As a bonus; he takes Graphic Artist jobs on the side too. Not sure how deep that goes, but at least he's got some tricks to share.

Nice to have some help along the way :p :) :D . If I'm ever in such a position; I'll surely give a leg-up on the newcomers. It's so great that, as competitive as this business can become, there's still a lot of really wonderful people to meet along the way. This whole thing just gets better and better.

That's all, just thought I'd share. ;)

Vich, looks like you're really in it for the long haul now. Well done mate. I'm am definitely not brave enough to attempt weddings. Great job, congrats and good luck on the next one. Look forward to seeing your posts!:D

[cwphoto]

I just refuse to go above ISO 400 unless forced, so opened up the lens somewhat.

Just take a deep breath and do it - better a grainy image than a soft one. ;)

[forno]

Just take a deep breath and do it - better a grainy image than a soft one. ;)


Those 20/30D's have pretty handy noise control at ISO400 too

[jamison55]

I shoot my 20D between ISO 800 and 1600 all the time. As long as you don't underexpose, the results are excellent.

[Vich]

I shoot my 20D between ISO 800 and 1600 all the time. As long as you don't underexpose, the results are excellent.Yeah; I underexpose a lot. Light meter arriving next week.

[cdifoto]

Every single one of my Men's Basketball shots from yesterday were at ISO3200 on the 30D. Don't be afraid to bump it up Vich!


Oh and congrats on the first one! You did 912382890 times better than I.

[D Thompson]

Thanks Dennis -

I had about 30 shots from our 2 stops along the coast. I think this was the best composition, but not the best exposure.

I'm thinking that since their heads and bodies curved right, it would be odd to not have the background right. However; it does create 2 main subjects. I'm not so sure what alternatives to do exactly, as I said, I had about 30 shots.

I'll look for one that leads the other way. Problem is I went North and missed the curve of the seashore.

One thing promising about this is that the seashore curve combined with the rock line creates a triangle ending on them. So; if I can fix the exposure so they're not so occluded in shadow, I'll have something frame-worthy, IMHO.

Thanks for looking!
I like the shot, it's just the line of the rocks just keep leading me away from the couple and to the rocks in the top right corner. Could just be me ;) . I think the exposure is easily fixed.

Hope you don't mind me playing with them. The first I used CS2 shadow/highlight adjustment and did 2 layers, 1 for the highlights and 1 for the shadows and then used a mask to only show what I wanted and also lowered the opacity of each of those 2 layers just a little for a final tweak. The 2nd one is just a quick edit to show you what I'm talking about. Keep in mind that I only spent a few minutes on them and you can tell by the crappy clone job.

pm me & I'll remove them if you'd like.

[Vich]

CDI, Jamison, Frono, CW, of course you're right about ISO. Hey I'll get there.

CDI - so how's the wedding business? You get some takers?

I'll tell you; if we hadn't had some cooperation to do the 2nd half "art shots" it would have been a very dull showing.

A really good photographer would have accepted the challenge and gotten the gold on the 1st half, but not me. As I recall; your first couple didn't even look at the camera more than 5 times. Compare that with champane, limo ride, hugs goodbye. Luck of the draw. I'd say you pulled off a miracle on that thing.

Anyway; I've only posted 4 photos. I'm pleased for the most part but flubbed a bunch too. Just don't ask me for a shot of the rings 'cause I don't have one.

I think when Jamison once said "I just tell them to linger that first kiss a little, I'm just not that fast", it stuck. A number of other things said on this forum stuck. And there was that large family wedding last year that really introduced me to the magnatude of the task - further providing glue for things to stick.

Met with the Bride, Bridesmaid, and my new co-Shooter (I hope) for the next one. It's only 45 people and they're very friendly. The groom's from out of town and supposed to be very camera shy. I get the impression he's a lumberjack or something - and shy may be a polite way of saying "he'll break you in half if you put that flash in his face one more time". Bride's a + size so I probably won't put her on the cover ... wow, how do I even start at asking for advice there.

I can see imeadiately that I need to make one (or 3) albums for myself. When I meet, bring one of those, my main problem may be "well then why is he so cheap"!

[XaiLo]

Alright Vich, but freindship aside those two guys got in the way of a real keeper the brides facial expression is exquisite. I love the limo shot! great capture imo, it works. On the stair case it would have been nice if the lady was not standing to the right of the bride. The beach shot oh well, it happens, happy you had a good experience on your first one. :)


Here's another hope you don't mind pp pic.
http://www.designsbyxailo.com/thepics/2007/01_jan/vich.jpg

[Vich]

Wow, Xialo, that's just what I had imagined, but better! Graduated darkness of the rocks ... CLASSIC! I am so weak in PP, hey, can I mail you the DVD, haha!

I guess you used the burn tool?

I started to B&W - ended up with half de-saturation like you did. I'm going with that one.

Seriously; tell us exactly how you did it, I want to copy.

Dennis - thank you too. The groom's face was a little overdone but backing off 1 stop would work great. I think it's OK for a little darkness, just not the 3 stops under I had.

[Nickcanada]

Vich, I meant to post earlier. I love the shots. You did a great job. My first wedding sucked.


XaiLo: You sure you want to join the dark side? I'd sure like to see you stick around the Canon section. :) Great edit.

[adam75south]

Alright Vich, but freindship aside those two guys got in the way of a real keeper the brides facial expression is exquisite. I love the limo shot! great capture imo, it works. On the stair case it would have been nice if the lady was not standing to the right of the bride. The beach shot oh well, it happens, happy you had a good experience on your first one. :)


Here's another hope you don't mind pp pic.
http://www.designsbyxailo.com/thepics/2007/01_jan/vich.jpg
i really love photoshop.

[XaiLo]

Vich, I can't say how much your appreciation generous words mean to me because in a real sense I have no idea what I'm doing. I've just started to learn how to use photoshop to edit photographs. I couldn't find my keys this morning (they were missing since yesterday) so working on the pic this morning was a way to keep me awake while I seached and edited. So for the bad news that's one of three I was working on simultaneously for the most part and if I remember correctly it involved 10 plus layers, at least four were adjustment layers, another three were masked layers, one was masked with an adjustment for only that layer. I did not use the burn tool, all I can tell you is I basically tweaked it for about an hour and figured it out as I went along. now for the part that sucks I accidently only saved a merged layer copy that I sharpened at the end so I'd have to do it all over again to figure out what settings were used, sorry dude but I was dead tired, do you have a way to get me a higher res copy. I'll attempt to do it again.

Nick, your too funny, it's nice being here too and btw thank you very much, I don't think I'll be going far.

Adam75south, I definately have found a new appreciation of it's capabilites.

[Vich]

I wish I were "just learning" about doing a 10 layer adjustment.

I still want to know. Is there a tutorial you can point me to? How do I achieve your modest "just learning" status.


Vich, I can't say how much your appreciation generous words mean to me because in a real sense I have no idea what I'm doing. I've just started to learn how to use photoshop to edit photographs. I couldn't find my keys this morning (they were missing since yesterday) so working on the pic this morning was a way to keep me awake while I seached and edited. So for the bad news that's one of three I was working on simultaneously for the most part and if I remember correctly it involved 10 plus layers, at least four were adjustment layers, another three were masked layers, one was masked with an adjustment for only that layer. I did not use the burn tool, all I can tell you is I basically tweaked it for about an hour and figured it out as I went along. now for the part that sucks I accidently only saved a merged layer copy that I sharpened at the end so I'd have to do it all over again to figure out what settings were used, sorry dude but I was dead tired, do you have a way to get me a higher res copy. I'll attempt to do it again.

Nick, your too funny, it's nice being here too and btw thank you very much, I don't think I'll be going far.

Adam75south, I definately have found a new appreciation of it's capabilites.


NickCanada, thanks for the kind words! Yeah; gotta draft Xialo or something.

[XaiLo]

Vich, I'm not messing with you actually I'm very serious, it not just about simply following a single tutorial. It is employing different techniques. I've been using photoshop for over ten years, but I am only now learning how to use it for post processing pictures. but I'll post something for you but it will take a minute.

[Vich]

Vich, I'm not messing with you actually I'm very serious, it not just about simply following a single tutorial. It is employing different techniques. I've been using photoshop for over ten years, but I am only now learning how to use it for post processing pictures. but I'll post something for you but it will take a minute.

OK, can I make up for 10 years in one night? :D

I'll wait for the post. Searching for tutorials now.