Which is better: Zoom or Prime?

[DonSchap]

Hi! I'm unbelievably new to photography and just bought a brand new digital camera. This forum looked like a wonderful place to get my questions answered, so here goes ...

As I stood in the camera shop, the owner asked me what kind of photography I was interested in ... and I just gave him a blank stare. What kind of what?

He listed: landscapes, architecture, portraits, wildlife, aviary, or astronomical.

He then asked what zooms or primes I already owned. "Primes?" I asked.

He went into a long litany of the differences between zoom, prime and macro lensing. Then he asked whether or not I wanted low-light capability or was going to be using a flash or studio lighting.

Suddenly, I understood there was going to be a lot more to this photography gig than just popping a lens onto my Canon EOS 1Ds MkII that he just sold me. :eek:

[D Thompson]

Rotflmao!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rontech1]

Hi! I'm unbelievably new to photography and just bought a brand new digital camera. This forum looked like a wonderful place to get my questions answered, so here goes ...

As I stood in the camera shop, the owner asked me what kind of photography I was interested in ... and I just gave him a blank stare. What kind of what?

He listed: landscapes, architecture, portraits, wildlife, aviary, or astronomical.

He then asked what zooms or primes I already owned. "Primes?" I asked.

He went into a long litany of the differences between zoom, prime and macro lensing. Then he asked whether or not I wanted low-light capability or was going to be using a flash or studio lighting.

Suddenly, I understood there was going to be a lot more to this photography gig than just popping a lens onto my Canon EOS 1Ds MkII that he just sold me. :eek:

UUUUmmmmm, The suspense is killing me.
What did you tell him:D
Ron

[SHEILA5]

Hi Don,

I would recommend for you to just use the kit lens. When you need to take
special photos and your current lens is not doing what you need then you will
know what you need.
When my daughter was getting married, I wanted a great lens for portraits.
After much research and advise, I purchased the Canon 50 mm 1.4. It takes great portraits. Last night, I also used this lens to take great, low light pictures of my son's varsity basketball game. I usually use my 75-300 IS zoom lens and just put the setting on sports. The photos are okay but l wanted to take some great shots that I see others take at basketball games. For the first time I put the camera on the tv setting, increased the ISO to 1600 and increased the shutter speed to 2.0. I was amazed at how crisp and clear the photos came out.
Do you have children? do they play sports? Do you want your camera for landscape photography?
I think it is time for you to experiment with your digital camera and see if the lens kit is sufficent for you.
Good Luck.
Sheila

[Rontech1]

Hi Don,

I would recommend for you to just use the kit lens. When you need to take
special photos and your current lens is not doing what you need then you will
know what you need.
When my daughter was getting married, I wanted a great lens for portraits.
After much research and advise, I purchased the Canon 50 mm 1.4. It takes great portraits. Last night, I also used this lens to take great, low light pictures of my son's varsity basketball game. I usually use my 75-300 IS zoom lens and just put the setting on sports. The photos are okay but l wanted to take some great shots that I see others take at basketball games. For the first time I put the camera on the tv setting, increased the ISO to 1600 and increased the shutter speed to 2.0. I was amazed at how crisp and clear the photos came out.
Do you have children? do they play sports? Do you want your camera for landscape photography?
I think it is time for you to experiment with your digital camera and see if the lens kit is sufficent for you.
Good Luck.
Sheila

Sheila5,
Have you ever been hit with a "gotcha" ?. If not, you can't say THAT anymore:D
Don is a senoir member here and was tongue in cheek:D kidding. He is one of the most knowledegeable members here.
BUT, never let that stop you from posting. He, as well as the rest of us, need some new blood to get us back to our roots. Showing that sometimes what we think is ironic, some people would like to help anyone that seems to be floundering. You did GREAT!!!
That is what this place needs. More new people that are WILLING TO HELP !!!!
I wish I had helped when I first got here.
Welcome to the boards:)
I hope that you will stick around a long time.:D A breath of fresh air!
By the way, here is his equip.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1510229&postcount=103
Ron
Who really means it.

[adam75south]

as much as i've learned since i started this photography thingy i still feel like the guy in don's post.

[Nickcanada]

Don, are you trying to tell us that you got a 1D mk II ??? And wow man I've never seen your gear list before, dangit! You must have been collecting for quite some time ;)

[SHEILA5]

Hi Ron,

It's official, I have now been hit with "GOTCHA"! I feel like a fool being a newbie and giving advise to someone who really knows photography. :) He has enough equipment to open his own store!
Thanks for the warm welcome.


Sheila

[Nickcanada]

Ya, don't worrie about it. Don is wierd!...

[NewTekBuzz]

:rolleyes:

your a sick man

:rolleyes:

[DonSchap]

One of the beauties of this forum is the opportunity to explore new ideas as well as some well-established ones. The reason I posted this particular thread was to show that even the new folks have a chance to offer advice and maybe learn something along the way.

Also, to point out that you can be sold a bill of goods without even being aware of it, until you ask around. I'm not sure how many people on here know that a Canon EOS 1Ds MkII costs over $7500, on a good day. Would someone be talked into buying such a fabulous camera without knowing what they were doing, not in any of the circles I've been in, that's for sure.

Now, an EOS 5D might be a different matter. With it priced around $2500, on a good day, a novice could be talked into it. Personally, if Canon ONLY sold the EOS 30D as an entry level, they would make life a lot simpler for a lot of folks on this forum. But, nope ... they offer the XTi and it can fall short, due to various aspects (which I will not address here).

Zoom or Prime? Do you (the reader) know the difference? Can you appreciate the variations of both types of lenses? They both have strengths and shortcomings ... what are they? Reading this forum will reveal an enormous diversity of opinion and also a lot of fact. Hopefully, there is some entertainment value to what you will learn on the Digital Camera Resource Page.

I apologize if I was a bit of a tease in all of this, but I can honestly say, it was for your benefit and enjoy all you find here. Please participate and learn to improve your skills and efforts with light.

Good luck! :D

[BonjiB]

Thanks don. Unfortunately i have a bad habit of reading who is posting AFTER i read the post. I got a good kick out of that one. Now i'll go clean the tea off my monitor. Thanks. :)

[aparmley]

Hi Don,

I would recommend for you to just use the kit lens.

^^^^^^^^^^
ROFLMFAO

That'd be hilarious a 1D + 18-55 kit well. . . its an EF-S so I guess that wouldn't really happen, but how funny would that be!

For the first time I put the camera on the tv setting, increased the ISO to 1600 and increased the shutter speed to 2.0.


Ok - you now know you were had so here comes a serious questions - how does one increase their SS to 2.0?

[aparmley]

Zoom or Prime? Do you (the reader) know the difference?

This reader wants to know if this poster knows the differences. . .:rolleyes:

I certainly had no idea that people still paid $700+ more than they should for that camera ($6,799 BHP).

[Nickcanada]

Difference between a prime and zoom is easy, prime= fixed focal length. The real question should be, would a prime help me create better photographs? And that question is a personal one that will depend on your IQ standards and your creative needs/wants.

[DonSchap]

Thank you for your response Nick, that really helped me identify what I was looking at, in the store. That salesguy won't have anything on me, this time. I'm ready. :D

I can see where using a bag full of primes could be a delightful lens-swapping expedition, as I switch and dig through the shoulder slung camera bag for another one. But wait, perhaps going for a series of staged zoom lenses would be a better solution? That way I could guage the type of shooting I'm doing against the type of zoom lens I would use.

Obviously, reasoning would, in fact, dictate that this may have a lot to do with the type of photography I am doing, as the salesguy had indicated, ealier. Personally, I want to be able to leap into the world and not have to struggle trying to figure it out, so here's my newbie plan:

For the really wide and close-up stuff, I'm grabbing a Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
For the average, around town stuff, I'm going for the most flexible of all the offerings: (brand undetermined) 17-50(55)mm f/2.8
For telephoto and since I'm new to this, plus the salesguy talked my ear off about it, I have chosen the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
For the indoor portrait stuff ... what else, the EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM.

So that is what I will get when they open a vault, somewhere, and say, "Here, take some."

Photography. It's not just fun ... it's funds! ;)

And by the way, Andrew ... an unwise NOOB can easily get raked for about $8,000.00 by Ritz Camera (http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/541167565.htm), where they certainly know how to invest YOUR money. Just walk in and ask: "Hey, what do I do with all this money?" Just peruse their website and you'll find out just how big a bite it gets ... when you gets it from Ritz. CHOMP!

[cwphoto]

Ok - you now know you were had so here comes a serious questions - how does one increase their SS to 2.0?

When starting off from 1.0? :confused:

[DonSchap]

When I went shopping for a PRIME lens the other day, the salesman was showing me something I found quite interesting: A Macro telephoto prime lens.

At 180mm f/3.5, you can draw a focus to within 19 inches and count all the freckles on Lil' Ophan Annie's mug and the hairs on her lip, too. :rolleyes:

Most 200mm lenses can't get within 5 feet of a subject or it becomes a blurred mess. When you say close-up, this PRIME does it one better.

Anyway, I priced these ~200mm Canon lenses... the standard Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM ($660) and the EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM ($1200). I was stunned at the price gulf and told the pimply-faced kid so.

Then, in a deft move, he reached behind his back and pulled out a TAmROn SP AF 180mm f/3.5 Di LD IF (http://www.tamron.com/lenses/prod/180mm.asp) and thrust it at me, saying, "Here ... same price as the Canon 200mm, Dude! With all the Macro goodies in there, too. It may be two-thirds of a stop slower, but you are going to be right in their face, with this one."

I was amused and mortified, how this 18-year-old youth could be so upbeat on this lens. Man, I know was sold ... well, that is if I would have had the spare coin.

So, if you are serious looking for more prime for your dime, this one is it. ;)

[cdifoto]

Ya, don't worrie about it. Don is wierd!...

Weird ain't quite the word I would use. :eek: :D

[DonSchap]

Yeah ... "Creative Genius" comes to mind to me, too. ;)

[forno]

Yeah ... "Creative Genius" comes to mind to me, too. ;)

You must be talking about the other Don, you know the cool one that takes all those great sports shots:cool:

[cwphoto]

When I went shopping for a PRIME lens the other day, the salesman was showing me something I found quite interesting: A Macro telephoto prime lens.

At 180mm f/3.5, you can draw a focus to within 19 inches and count all the freckles on Lil' Ophan Annie's mug and the hairs on her lip, too. :rolleyes:

Most 200mm lenses can't get within 5 feet of a subject or it becomes a blurred mess. When you say close-up, this PRIME does it one better.

Anyway, I priced these ~200mm Canon lenses... the standard Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM ($660) and the EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM ($1200). I was stunned at the price gulf and told the pimply-faced kid so.

Then, in a deft move, he reached behind his back and pulled out a TAmROn SP AF 180mm f/3.5 Di LD IF (http://www.tamron.com/lenses/prod/180mm.asp) and thrust it at me, saying, "Here ... same price as the Canon 200mm, Dude! With all the Macro goodies in there, too. It may be two-thirds of a stop slower, but you are going to be right in their face, with this one."

I was amused and mortified, how this 18-year-old youth could be so upbeat on this lens. Man, I know was sold ... well, that is if I would have had the spare coin.

So, if you are serious looking for more prime for your dime, this one is it. ;)

I hear good things about that Tamron - so why didn't you buy it?

[forno]

I hear good things about that Tamron - so why didn't you buy it?


http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=190331&postcount=7

:rolleyes: :D

[DonSchap]

Christian,

My bag is getting darn near looking like your bag, only with a good part of the TAmROn name pasted on it. Obviously, not as PRIME based as you are, but it's a work in progress.

Sure, I may have a few good toys, but I'm not made of money ... well, not yet, at least. I take these as hobby shots and occasional events as a favor to good friends. Yes, it is time consuming, but it keeps me focused on my real nature ... and that's simply experimenting and learning something new.

The 180mm Macro is a great lens, of that there is little doubt. I noted that you have one of these and it's on my short list of primes. I'm not really thrilled at paying Canon's prices and if TAmROn can deliver a reasonable image of the same type, they get the money. It's really just that simple. :cool:

[cwphoto]

Christian,

My bag is getting darn near looking like your bag, only with a good part of the TAmROn name pasted on it.

Sure, I may have a few good toys, but I'm not made of money ... well, not yet, at least. I take these as hobby shots and occasional events as a favor to good friends. Yes, it is time consuming, but it keeps me focused on my real nature ... and that's simply experimenting and learning something new.

The 180mm Macro is a great lens, of that there is little doubt. I noted that you have one of these and it's on my short list of primes. I'm not really thrilled at paying Canon's prices and if TAmROn can deliver a reasonable image of the same type, they get the money. It's really just that simple. :cool:

Sounds fair to me. I think they are pretty close.

My choice is always Canon first as the CPS advantage is worth it from my perspective. Plus my Canon TCs are supposed to be 'matched' to this lens and many other Ls.

[DonSchap]

Skipping to another issue, kind of related to Macros and kind of not.

The TAmROn SP AF11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Di-II LD [IF] will let you get to just under 10 inches and still get a focus. That is about as good as a macro, only a lot bigger scope. LOL

I rarely get that close, but I can see how you might get some real unusual images less than a foot away from your subject. The camera's pop-up flash is just about worthless with being this close, because the lens itself blocks a good portion of the light and there are few "ring flashes" that have 77mm inner diameter.

I have often wondered if cropping the image would effectively give you the macro image you want. Sure, there is a loss of resolution, but still ... effective?

[cwphoto]

I have often wondered if cropping the image would effectively give you the macro image you want. Sure, there is a loss of resolution, but still ... effective?

Kind of like digital zoom vs optical zoom - it gives you a result, but why would you bother?

[zmikers]

Hi! I'm unbelievably new to photography and just bought a brand new digital camera. This forum looked like a wonderful place to get my questions answered, so here goes ...

As I stood in the camera shop, the owner asked me what kind of photography I was interested in ... and I just gave him a blank stare. What kind of what?

He listed: landscapes, architecture, portraits, wildlife, aviary, or astronomical.

He then asked what zooms or primes I already owned. "Primes?" I asked.

He went into a long litany of the differences between zoom, prime and macro lensing. Then he asked whether or not I wanted low-light capability or was going to be using a flash or studio lighting.

Suddenly, I understood there was going to be a lot more to this photography gig than just popping a lens onto my Canon EOS 1Ds MkII that he just sold me. :eek:

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! That was too funny. Just what I needed today at work. Cheers for that......

Sheila5, do you know what gullible means? Well if you don't, don't bother looking it up in the dictionary, because its not in any english dictionary I've ever used......really!!!! it's not!!!!!

[DonSchap]

Kind of like digital zoom vs optical zoom - it gives you a result, but why would you bother?

Should you happen to photograph a CRT or LCD screen, the wide angle can grab the entire screen and be quite readable with this type of lens. Were this may be important is when you are capturing a live feed (surveillance perhaps?) and not have video capture for whatever reason. You could still (the operative word here) grab an image and be able to send it along electronically, downloaded with your USB cable or drop to a printer, for quick publication and apprehension.

Anyway ... we all know what we do with our cameras ... but this seemed like a different approach to ... well, something.

Here's looking at you ... somehow, Christian. :rolleyes:

[forno]

Should you happen to photograph a CRT or LCD screen, the wide angle can grab the entire screen and be quite readable with this type of lens. Were this may be important is when you are capturing a live feed (surveillance perhaps?) and not have video capture for whatever reason. You could still (the operative word here) grab an image and be able to send it along electronically, downloaded with your USB cable or drop to a printer, for quick publication and apprehension.




WHAT THE????????????????????

you have out Don-ed your self with that one Don

[cwphoto]

Should you happen to photograph a CRT or LCD screen, the wide angle can grab the entire screen and be quite readable with this type of lens. Were this may be important is when you are capturing a live feed (surveillance perhaps?) and not have video capture for whatever reason. You could still (the operative word here) grab an image and be able to send it along electronically, downloaded with your USB cable or drop to a printer, for quick publication and apprehension.

Anyway ... we all know what we do with our cameras ... but this seemed like a different approach to ... well, something.

Here's looking at you ... somehow, Christian. :rolleyes:

Sorry Don, you've lost me again. How does that in any way relate to my post you quoted? :confused:

...and you were doing so well - changed your meds? :D

[forno]

Sorry Don, you've lost me again. How does that in any way relate to my post you quoted? :confused:

...and you were doing so well - changed your meds? :D

LOL, someone left the gate open:D

jokes Don jokes:)

[Honest Gaza]

Hi! I'm unbelievably new to photography and just bought a brand new digital camera. This forum looked like a wonderful place to get my questions answered, so here goes ...

He then asked what zooms or primes I already owned. "Primes?" I asked.



Firstly, I must apologise for the replies that some of the other forum members have provided. Sometimes, they forget that they were once new to this hobby and that they probably asked the very same questions.

I can tell your enquiry is genuine from the fact that you have offered a fake name. Please don't be ashamed and try and hide behind someone else's name by using "Don's Chap". Obviously you are not a representative of Don's and are probably asking this information for your own purposes. So Don (if I may call you that), I will endeavour to answer your original question rather than join in the misinformation that others have tried to confuse you with.

You asked about the difference between Zoom and Prime lenses.

Zoom Lenses
These lenses are often mistakenly purchased for capturing sports photos. There is a misconception that the word zoom means that they can capture very fast motion....of course, this is ridiculous. The zoom description in actual fact refers to how fast the lens is....not the action. The bigger the zoom, the faster the lens. Quite simple really.

Prime Lenses
Of all lenses, these are the ones that are most misunderstood. People order prime rib, prime steak.....purchase prime land....all because they are the pick of the crop....or the specific one they want. They chose a Prime lens for this same reason....they want a particular value. Again, utterly ridiculous.

Prime lenses are a fixed focal length, but are only available in sizes devisable by 1 and their own focal length.

I hope this helps you (and others who may be in a similar situation as you).

With this information now available to you, please purchase your lenses accordingly. One of the other forum members aspires to taking THE SHOT.

I hope my advice can also help you to achieve this....because what I have provided here is, THE SHIT.

[cwphoto]

Firstly, I must apologise for the replies that some of the other forum members have provided. Sometimes, they forget that they were once new to this hobby and that they probably asked the very same questions.

I can tell your enquiry is genuine from the fact that you have offered a fake name. Please don't be ashamed and try and hide behind someone else's name by using "Don's Chap". Obviously you are not a representative of Don's and are probably asking this information for your own purposes. So Don (if I may call you that), I will endeavour to answer your original question rather than join in the misinformation that others have tried to confuse you with.

You asked about the difference between Zoom and Prime lenses.

Zoom Lenses
These lenses are often mistakenly purchased for capturing sports photos. There is a misconception that the word zoom means that they can capture very fast motion....of course, this is ridiculous. The zoom description in actual fact refers to how fast the lens is....not the action. The bigger the zoom, the faster the lens. Quite simple really.

Prime Lenses
Of all lenses, these are the ones that are most misunderstood. People order prime rib, prime steak.....purchase prime land....all because they are the pick of the crop....or the specific one they want. They chose a Prime lens for this same reason....they want a particular value. Again, utterly ridiculous.

Prime lenses are a fixed focal length, but are only available in sizes devisable by 1 and their own focal length.

I hope this helps you (and others who may be in a similar situation as you).

With this information now available to you, please purchase your lenses accordingly. One of the other forum members aspires to taking THE SHOT.

I hope my advice can also help you to achieve this....because what I have provided here is, THE SHIT.

SHIT is right.

Hilarious read Gazpo! :D :D :D

[forno]

ali Baba For Prezzzzzzz

[Honest Gaza]

ali Baba For Prezzzzzzz

Would I be able to double park my camel ?

[forno]

Would I be able to double park my camel ?

Valet if it pleases:D

[DonSchap]

Look, if you "camel jockeys" are done fooling around ... how about we get back to my original question:

PRIME or NO PRIME?

Being the novice that I am (30+ years) ... I find it difficult to make a decision by myself. I often wander the Internet in search of an honest ... lens?

Opinions on every piece of glass vary. Look at the diversity we have concerning the infamous "kit" lens. While most users who are avid about their photography quickly replace it, there are those who use it routinely and either swear by it ... or at it, but they will not give it up.

Zoom lenses offer tremendous flexibility. Even the most ardent PRIME-user will have to admit, when you are on the run swapping lenses is a major pain in the ... camera bag. But PRIMES also offer the best expected results, so your surprises are reduced enormously, as you cruise through the images you have recently taken.

One other aspect, that tends to get ignored ... PRIMES under 300mm do NOT come with IS and that little fact can really shake you up. So, do PRIMES require the use of a tripod at 1/30th-second or slower? What do you think?

[forno]

You should be in a position to make an informed judgement based on your gear list

[DonSchap]

To be honest, I was hoping to consider other forum member's opinions ... as a feigned "newbie". ;)

[DonSchap]

One of the unpleasant side-effects that most newbies don't understand is progressive aperture.

Q: When a lens is listed as something like 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ... what does that mean?

A: What that means is that when you set your lens to its maximum aperture (widest setting) f/4 and then decide to zoom your lens from 70mm to 300mm ... the aperture is automatically going to "stop-down" to f/5.6! You will lose one entire f-stop of light (in other words, whatever light you had at f/4 is just cut in half!) through that lens and have nothing to say about it. The lens automatically adjusts it as you zoom in on your subject.

Q: Is this important?

A: Well, yeah! I would not have brought it up if it wasn't. Loss of light usually results in a diminished image. Shadows are darker, highlights are reduced and focus is harder to determine. All in all, it can be problematic.

Q: Is there anything that can be done to stop this "stopping-down" effect?

A: Thankfully, yes. Additional money from your wallet to your retailer's cashdrawer will usually result in the purchase of a 70-200mm f/4 lens (or if you are real good, this year, f/2.8) ... which the maximum aperture is consistent through the zooming action. That means, if your lens is set to f/4 at 70mm ... it will still be set to f/4 when you get to 200mm.

Q: Any drawbacks to a 70-200mm over a 70-300mm lens?

A: Aperture-wise, probably not. Telephoto-wise ... it's a tough and personal call. Obviously 100mm worth of focal length sounds like a lot, but having twice the light at the end of the tube sure is nice. If you want to whack down that light and get close to 300mm, you can always add a 1.4x teleconverter, which will get your 200mm shot to about 280mm. (Close enough, I'd say).