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jcon
01-03-2007, 04:22 PM
Will Jeff be reviewing this camera any time soon? I am interested to see how it "compares" with the D200 and what similarities and differences they have. I know one is MUCH more expensive than the other but I havent read a comprehensive review of the D2Xs yet and I am curious to see how it performs with higher ISO, something the D200 lacks, somewhat.

I am interested because I may be able to get a body and lens of my choice fairly soon, so which is better?

eduardofrances
01-03-2007, 04:30 PM
Will Jeff be reviewing this camera any time soon? I am interested to see how it "compares" with the D200 and what similarities and differences they have. I know one is MUCH more expensive than the other but I havent read a comprehensive review of the D2Xs yet and I am curious to see how it performs with higher ISO, something the D200 lacks, somewhat.

I am interested because I may be able to get a body and lens of my choice fairly soon, so which is better?

the differences between the D2X and the D2Xs are listed here:
* Electronic viewfinder masking when using High Speed Crop
* Colour Matrix Metering II adapted for use in High Speed Crop
* New wide angle TFT monitor
* New longer life battery
* New Black and White mode
* Adobe RGB Colour space available in all three Colour Modes
* Additional Custom Curve options
* Extra 1/3 step ISO boost settings
* Refinements to Auto focus performance
* New in camera Trim function
* Modified Auto ISO control
* Extra options for the Function Button
* Extended continuous shooting
* New Menu GUI color scheme
* Image Comment, number of characters increased.
* Save/Load settings between multiple D2Xs cameras, additional settings in EXIF
* Simplified settings management
* Image Authentication system compatible
* Battery warning during Mirror Up
* Additional GPS information
* Modified USB portwith new USB Cable Clip included

since this modifications are minimal you can read the review of the D2X and then see the difference between them with this list http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond2x/

jcon
01-03-2007, 04:31 PM
Thanks, but I am looking for the differences between the D200 and the D2Xs.

K1W1
01-03-2007, 05:45 PM
I can't see Jeff doing a DsXs review. The camera is way above the target market for this site and Jeff has enough difficulties keeping up with the cameras that do fit into the market.
I think Nikonians have a D2Xs review. A more specialist site like that will probably have the info that you want.

davew
01-03-2007, 06:08 PM
Thanks, but I am looking for the differences between the D200 and the D2Xs.

Side by side here

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=nikon_d200%2Cnikon_d2xs&show=all

eduardofrances
01-03-2007, 09:52 PM
Thanks, but I am looking for the differences between the D200 and the D2Xs.

:D yeah I know but there isn't a formal review on the D2Xs, that is why I handed you the list of new elements in the D2Xs and the review of the D2x so you know what the fuzz is about between the two cameras and then compare it with the D200

You can find the comparission of the D2X and the D200 here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/page28.asp

jcon
01-03-2007, 10:38 PM
Thanks for the link eduardo, I am tryin to find noise comparisons between the 2. The D2Xs is suppose to improve on the D2X noise problem at high ISO and from what ive read so far, the noise difference between the D2Xs and the D200 are minimal at best, so I am not sure the D2Xs is worth the big price difference. Think I will "settle" for the D200 and Nikon 17-55 2.8:D

wh0128
01-03-2007, 10:48 PM
Um yeah the D2xs I believe has the same processor as the D200 just more megapixels and a ton more features. If it were me I'd go with the set up you are looking at right now.

jcon
01-03-2007, 11:00 PM
They use 2 different sensors.

T06
01-04-2007, 12:21 AM
Not exactly what you are looking for but I thought a good read.

http://www.bythom.com/d200review.htm

tcadwall
01-04-2007, 07:32 AM
The way I look at the two cameras is that there are plusses and minuses for each.

Comparing the noise levels might be fairly moot point. Either of them should be among the tops for noise control. If you do find a comparison it would make for interesting reading if you would share the link.

Overall differences? I guess it depends on how hard-core you are...

The D2Xs has the better AF system and metering system. It has more megapixels (which will also mean that your image quality is even more limited by the lenses in your collection), will be able to click off more images before mechanical parts start failing (that is a very hard statistic to find since Nikon - for obvious reasons - would be reluctant to release such statistics). It also has the crop-mode which will allow you to REALLY click off some fast frames at a cropped resolution! It really is a die-hard pro camera.

Now, that is where things keep getting more expensive. The D200 comes with the on-camera flash which also affords iTTL remote control of up to 2 groups of off-camera flashes (SB-600s and SB-800s), in many of the performance areas though, the D200 is VERY similar. It is still a quite rugged camera. Obviously the on-camera flash is not a deal for most of us, since we would likely throw an SB-600 or SB-800 on either one. Most all of the features that I would look for in an upgrade are covered with the D200.

So while the D200 can't boast that it has much that the D2Xs doesn't have, it sure does share a lot of the same features for 1/3 to 1/4 the price.

TNB
01-04-2007, 04:41 PM
My simple comparison: I thought the D200 was heavy when I first started using it until I took a few photos with the D2Xs. ;) And of course, the D2Xs is faster. Zoom, zoom. :p

jcon
01-04-2007, 05:17 PM
TNB, id be curious to hear yours and Chris' thoughts on the D200 at higher ISO with no flash. How do you think it handles noise?

I am looking for a better camera for my business(wedding and family portraits), so for the wedding, sometimes I wont be able to use flash.

XaiLo
01-04-2007, 07:07 PM
The D80 is better at high ISO...

tcadwall
01-04-2007, 07:34 PM
Just shot a wedding Saturday (video shoot) for a friend - video is an old hobby of mine that I can't seem to get away from due to the fact that I did a pretty decent job at it. The photographer used for the stills is a very reputable local photographer, and has had a great reputation on the internet for camera mods, etc in the past.

Anyway, I was talking with him, and basically he handles the low light by using fast glass. Sure he has good camera bodies, but he isn't using any D2Xs's. Basically said that no "body" is good enough to rely on - not without the fast glass.

I took some peeks at his lenses, can you say E-N-V-Y? I don't think he has a single lens that is slower than f2.8. Many primes mounted to different bodies, I think I counted 8 bodies with different lenses attached.

I have to confess though that VR on my 18-200 did work pretty well in the church we were in since I took some shots as well. Of course the posed shots came out great, and as long as there wasn't a lot of movement I could get some good shots of people hanging out in the basement reception hand-held as well.

Anyway if noise is your concern, the very best way to take care of it would be the fastest glass you can get, and to start out with at least 2 bodies so that you could quickly change from one focal length to another without missing the shot. IOW maybe a good 2.8 tele zoom like the 70-200 VR and a couple of primes. You could then use the prime as much as possible but have the zoom handy in the event that you are switching primes on the other body, and a shot opportunity comes up unexpectedly.


---Added---
IOW - if it were me I would redirect the money from the D2Xs into MORE than one D200 and the fastest glass I could find. - High ISO is not how you really want to handle low light unless the action demands it, and in weddings at least the movement is not like a basketball game! Fast glass and shutter / aperture settings...

XaiLo
01-04-2007, 07:55 PM
What bodies was he using?

TNB
01-04-2007, 08:03 PM
TNB, id be curious to hear yours and Chris' thoughts on the D200 at higher ISO with no flash. How do you think it handles noise?

I am looking for a better camera for my business(wedding and family portraits), so for the wedding, sometimes I wont be able to use flash.
I'd rather defer to Chris' opinion since he is the wedding photographer and I have yet to try shooting past 1000 ISO though "both" the D200 and D80 can go as high as 1600 ISO, while the D2Xs goes as high as 800 ISO. Even when I shot at 1000 ISO, it was while I was a passenger in a moving car taking a photo at night.

http://www.nikonusa.com/fileuploads/pdfs/DLSR_comparison_chart_V2_060905.pdf


The D80 is better at high ISO...
Than what? Both the D2Xs and D200? According to the Nikon comparison chart, the D80 has the "same" ISO range and sensor as the D200 though the D80 has both a slower shutter speed range and slower frame rate than both the D2Xs and D200.

http://www.nikonusa.com/fileuploads/pdfs/DLSR_comparison_chart_V2_060905.pdf

I also checked out the D80 before I purchased the D200. And although I own a D50--which feels like a D80 to me--I preferred the feel of the D200, especially when a heavier lens like the Nikkor 70-200 VR is mounted on the camera body.

Either way, I suggest actually holding the different camera bodies with the heavier Nikkor 70-200 F/2.8 VR mounted on them.

tcadwall
01-04-2007, 08:13 PM
Well this one is like cussing on a Nikon board. But he has a mixture. He has both Nikon and Canon... I think I saw a Fuji as well. Last time I did a wedding he was at (about 2 years ago), he had Fuji and Nikon. Now he has added Canon - might be that he is converting, or might just be that he is keeping his options open.

I didn't catch the Nikon bodies that he had, but they looked more like D200 size than D2Xs. One of the Nikons had the vertical grip, so it *could* have been mistaken for D2Xs or such... but since the 3 Canon bodies that I saw were all 30D's... I would think he was probably working in more the D200 class.

He doesn't work alone, but he provides the equipment for his assistant(s) to shoot with as well. Talking to an assistant is when I noticed the Canon equipment.

jcon
01-04-2007, 08:19 PM
Good discussion going, thanks guys, Yes I look forward to what Chris has to offer. I dont agree the D80 would be better than those 2 though. Im just going by specs and samples I have seen, because I havent used the D80.

tcad, thanks for the input. I will be using fast glass once I upgrade. I will be keeping my 50mm prime, the rest will be gone and upgraded to Nikon "pro" glass. I am serious about making my business work and I want to have the right equipment.

Keep the opinions and suggestions comming, theyre very helpful!

TNB, how does the D200 handle your ISO1000 shots?

TNB
01-04-2007, 08:29 PM
TNB, how does the D200 handle your ISO1000 shots?
I just got off the telephone with one person I know who owns the D2Xs and he wants to get together downtown tonight, along with another person who also owns a D200. If the plan goes forward and the person who owns the D2Xs is using the same lens as me (which will be more than likely a 17-55 F/2.8)), I'll try to remember and take a couple of shots of the same thing with my D200 and his D2Xs using the same ISO settings (or better yet, let him take the photos using both his camera and my camera). However, I probably won't have them posted until Saturday (unless I don't go out shooting tomorrow night).

jcon
01-04-2007, 08:30 PM
Sweet, thank you TNB, that would be freakin saweet!

tcadwall
01-04-2007, 08:32 PM
yeah don't consider a D80. The D200 has a lot of features that you might really benefit from... I have done spec. comparisons from here to Sunday on the 80/200/2Xs... While I can't justify the cost difference in the latter two the feature/cost difference in the former two makes the 200 a no-brainer to me.

XaiLo
01-04-2007, 09:49 PM
Than what? Both the D2Xs and D200? According to the Nikon comparison chart, the D80 has the "same" ISO range and sensor as the D200 though the D80 has both a slower shutter speed range and slower frame rate than both the D2Xs and D200.

Wow! thanks for putting me in my place, those are all great reasons why the D200 shoots better pictures at high ISO than the D80.

eduardofrances
01-05-2007, 11:47 AM
yeah don't consider a D80. The D200 has a lot of features that you might really benefit from... I have done spec. comparisons from here to Sunday on the 80/200/2Xs... While I can't justify the cost difference in the latter two the feature/cost difference in the former two makes the 200 a no-brainer to me.

If the camera is going to be used for professional work, then you are right the D80 is not the best suited for this, it has a life shutter expectancy of 50,000 shutter actuations and the other D2X(s) and D200 doubles that number -heck I have a friend that has a D2X with 170,000 and the camerais working like the day he bought it- :D

TNB
01-05-2007, 09:30 PM
Wow! thanks for putting me in my place, those are all great reasons why the D200 shoots better pictures at high ISO than the D80.
What did you expect since you offer nothing to back up your claims that the D80 is better than the D200 and/or D2Xs. At least I provided some Nikon links with some data and will probably generate some photos taken with both the D200 and D2Xs (the subject of this thread). And quite frankly, if the D80 is all that great I would have thought that Nikon would have MAPed it higher than both the D200 and D2Xs. Myself, I'm interested in a FASTER camera (D200 & D2Xs) than a camera that has more incamera editing functions and pre-set scene modes (D80). Then again, if someone likes the feel of the D80 over the heavier camera bodies and needs pre-set scene modes, go for it. It's a personal choice.


Sweet, thank you TNB, that would be freakin saweet!
We went out last night, but it turned into a BS session since I was the only one with a camera. I still captured one photo of a lovely lady around the fire. It's been cold and windy lately. Tonight the weather is the same though we may still get together later. Either way, I'll try to get some photos using both camera bodies sometime soon. By the way, there is also an update for the D2Xs and the D200. Myself, I haven't bothered to download the D200 update since I am not running wireless and don't really need the other updated functions mentioned thus far.

XaiLo
01-05-2007, 11:19 PM
I see you have a real problem, if you look real closely my post follows directly behind jcon's post so here's a clue my response was to him not you. As to what did I expect "well a little courtesy" since you know so much apparently you did not know that jcon and I were having a casual pm conversation about this subject and I was just making an off the cuff remark, as for proof I did supply him with some links. So forgive me for not including them and the extent of our conversation; because I did not forsee the need to pacify an idiot in my future. Frankly you don't have to feel the need to justify why you spent your money on a D200 me. I could care less... why don't we just chalk this one up to a misunderstanding and presumption.

And if you don't get what I mean presumption here are a couple of quotes. The appropriate links have been supplied.



Than what? Both the D2Xs and D200?


http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187153&postcount=17



What did you expect since you offer nothing to back up your claims that the D80 is better than the D200 and/or D2Xs.


http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187472&postcount=25

I guess rather than contemplating.... that I may just have not been addressing you:confused: It was just easier for you to just make it your mission to attack me. Whatever makes life easy for you dude.

TNB
01-05-2007, 11:33 PM
I see you have a real problem, if you look real closely my post follows directly behind jcon's post so here's a clue my response was to him not you. As to what did I expect "well a little courtesy" since you know so much apparently you did not know that jcon and I were having a casual pm conversation about this subject and I was just making an off the cuff remark, as for proof I did supply him with some links. So forgive me for not including them and the extent of our conversation; because I did not forsee the need to pacify an idiot in my future. Frankly you don't have to feel the need to justify why you spent your money on a D200 me. I could care less... why don't we just chalk this one up to a misunderstanding and presumption.

And if you don't get what I mean presumption here are a couple of quotes.

Than what? Both the D2Xs and D200?

What did you expect since you offer nothing to back up your claims that the D80 is better than the D200 and/or D2Xs.
I know what I wrote--"Than what?" with a question mark. Yes, a question mark since you didn't specify your comments either. Quite frankly, you can make your own presumption, again, and if you want to discuss some post following someone else's, there was a direct question to me and/or one of the "OTHER" members.

TNB, id be curious to hear yours and Chris' thoughts on the D200 at higher ISO with no flash. How do you think it handles noise?

I am looking for a better camera for my business(wedding and family portraits), so for the wedding, sometimes I wont be able to use flash.
Consequently, you can chalk this up any you want since you did at least get one thing correct and that is that I don't have to justify anything to you or any "idiot in my future." In short, whatever.

XaiLo
01-05-2007, 11:52 PM
Dude Let me make it easy for you... I was not talking to or addressing you... in any shape, form, or fashion.

TNB
01-05-2007, 11:56 PM
Dude Let me make it easy for you... I was not talking to you.

Where's the ignore button on this forum...

XaiLo
01-05-2007, 11:59 PM
lol :) :) :) :)