First DSLR: Sony A100 or Pentax K100D

[Dondi]

First of all: thank you to dcresource for providing an outstanding resource for newbies like me to come up to speed on digital photography. And, thanks to all of the members of this community for sharing your experience and perspective. Without this community, I would be totally unprepared to make the decision I am faced with. My sincere thanks!

Background:
This camera is for my 14 year old daughter. She is the primary user of our point-and-shoot Sony Cyber-shot DSC-N1 camera. She is really passionate about taking photos, and has decided that if she could only have one item for Christmas, it would be a "real camera."

After doing some research, I initially narrowed the choices down to the Fujifilm S6000FD, due to the range of features and capabilities packed into a very SLR-like form factor for a great price. However, after playing with one and discussing bridge cameras vs DSLRs with the experts at a local Wolf Camera store, I decided to take the plunge and get her a DSLR instead. This was largely driven by my disappointment with the poor resolution of the S6000FD's electronic view finder, and the realization that at some point my daughter would want to experiment with wide angle, "longer" range, and perhaps some specialty lenses.

After reading a number of reviews I have narrowed the choices down to the Sony A100 and pentax K100D because they both have image stabilization and are within my price range. From the reviews I know that the Sony is the "newer" of the two, but both are highly regarded entry-level + cameras. I also know that they both take great pictures, but have their plusses and minuses, and that I would not go "wrong" picking either.

However, with Sony's deep discounting of the A100, one can be had for between $700-$800 (with an 18-70mm lense) which is only a slight premium ($50-$100) more than a K100D with 18-55mm lense. After re-reading the reviews and numerous posts in the forums, I still don't know enought to decide if the A100 is worth the premium. It appears to be a more technically advanced product and has a rechargeable battery good for 700+ shots; however, it appears to have poorer performance beyond 400 ISO than the K100D. The K100D, on the other hand, appears to have better overall image quality and high ISO performance; but get knocks for lense availability and AA battery vs. rechargeable battery.

I know there is a lot more to evaluating and choosing a DSLR, but I'm a newbie that's drinking from the proverbial "firehose" and these items are what stand out to me at the moment. Perhaps, I should be looking at other factors to decide -- I don't know, but I am open to any advice/guidance in making what is a surprisingly difficult decision.

Thanks in advance.

Donovan.

[CMYanko]

The tail end of the NeoCamera review had this to say

The only other currently stabilized DSLR camera is the more expensive Sony Alpha A100 which does perform better for action photography with unlimited 3 FPS continuous shooting but in low-light the A100 shows relatively high image noise starting at ISO 800. This counterbalances the usefulness of its built-in stabilization.

Hope it helps.

[SpecialK]

After reading a number of reviews I have narrowed the choices down to the Sony A100 and pentax K100D because they both have image stabilization and are within my price range. ...

However, with Sony's deep discounting of the A100, one can be had for between $700-$800 (with an 18-70mm lense) which is only a slight premium ($50-$100) more than a K100D with 18-55mm lense. ...

...

The K100D, on the other hand, appears to have better overall image quality and high ISO performance; but get knocks for lense availability and AA battery vs. rechargeable battery.


Beach has the K100D without lens for about $513, and subtract the $50 rebate.

K100D uses rechargeable AA nimh batteries. Very cheap. Or (correction here --> CR-V3) lithiums, but only NON rechargeable. Rechargeable CR-V3s "may cause malfunctions" due to "voltage characteristics."

There are many manufacturers with lenses for Pentax, particularly Sigma. You can get whatever you want.
The Pentax lenses are pretty good, and reasonably priced. I have the 10-17mm wideangle, but they also have the 16-45 midrange f4 ($300 after $100 rebate) which I would choose over the 18-55, and 50-200 tele-zoom which is highly rated and as low as $167 after $50 rebate. If I was buying it again I might go with the last 2 instead of the Sigmas ($379 and $219), though I like them.

I think you'll like either choice.

[DonSchap]

I use the SONY because it basically can use every single Minolta-lens I own. The savings in glass for that reason justifies the camera at twice the price.

But ... it also has a 10MP sensor and built-in anti-sh-sh-sh-shake. That doesn't hurt, either.

If you have nothing in the way of glass, get the Pentax K10D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/), not the K100D. Yes, the K10D costs a little more, but it is weather-sealed, anti-sh-sh-shake (sorry, I stutter-type) ... and it'll probably be a cheaper buy for almost every component, unlike the SONY. It is a really nice offering, in what I recently saw from the rep.

[Dondi]

The tail end of the NeoCamera review had this to say

The only other currently stabilized DSLR camera is the more expensive Sony Alpha A100 which does perform better for action photography with unlimited 3 FPS continuous shooting but in low-light the A100 shows relatively high image noise starting at ISO 800. This counterbalances the usefulness of its built-in stabilization.

Hope it helps.

This is very helpful CMYanko. The noise issue is apparently being recognized by many A100 users; although they seem to either find it tolerable, or get around it using post-processing of the image. I'm not sure how big an issue this is practically, but it's definitely cooling my enthusiasm for paying the Sony premium.

[Dondi]

I use the SONY because it basically can use every single Minolta-lens I own. The savings in glass for that reason justifies the camera at twice the price.

But ... it also has a 10MP sensor and built-in anti-sh-sh-sh-shake. That doesn't hurt, either.

If you have nothing in the way of glass, get the Pentax K10D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk10d/), not the K100D. Yes, the K10D costs a little more, but it is weather-sealed, anti-sh-sh-shake (sorry, I stutter-type) ... and it'll probably be a cheaper buy for almost every component, unlike the SONY. It is a really nice offering, in what I recently saw from the rep.

Thx DonSchap. I like the described build quality and weather sealing of the K10D. However it is at a $100 *premium* to the Sony A100 at this point in time. I'm getting light-headed just trying to sort out the A100 vs K100D premium -- I'm likely to pass out trying to sort out things out with the K10D added to the mix, but I'll take the risk. Can you explain your comment regarding ... and it'll probably be a cheaper buy for almost every component, unlike the SONY. ?

[Dondi]

One member here (Tim) got the Pentax and posted his review here (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26215&highlight=banding). He returned it due to vertical banding at ISO 400.
...
Banding, to me, is a disabling problem, exp. at ISO 400. Just look at Tim's example. Steer clear of the Pentax!


Thx Vich. Do you know if banding is an issue with the K100D?

Personally; I would get her a used 10D and a good lens. IS is more applicable to a tele lens. A used 10D ($300+) + 28-135 IS ($400 used) + 50 f1.8 ($60 used) would get her settled into the hobby nicely and next year spring for the 30D replacement and sell the 10D for $200. If going used; you'll need to add software. Photoshop is expensive, but I got Photoshop Elements for $40 (be happy to sell it too). But that's just me, and I only say it because I don't know anything about the Sony but naturally distrust the newcomer on the block. Later; get her a Sigma 15-30 f3.5-f? or Tokina 12-24 as a cheaper Ultra WA solution.

The used option sounds good, but might be impractical for the camera body given how close we are to Christmas. However, definitely doable for additional lenses. ... On another note, I'm starting to feel like I'm on a slippery slope here by jumping onto the DSLR track. Should I ? ... maybe I should reconsider that all in one Fujifilm S6000FD :)

[Dondi]

Beach has the K100D without lens for about $513, and subtract the $50 rebate.

K100D uses rechargeable AA nimh batteries. Very cheap. Or CR-123 lithiums.
There are many manufacturers with lenses for Pentax, particularly Sigma. You can get whatever you want.

The Pentax lenses are pretty good, and reasonably priced. I have the 10-17mm wideangle, but they also have the 16-45 midrange f4 ($300 after $100 rebate) which I would choose over the 18-55, and 50-200 tele-zoom which is highly rated and as low as $167 after $50 rebate. If I was buying it again I might go with the last 2 instead of the Sigmas ($379 and $219), though I like them.

I think you'll like either choice.

Thanks for the clarification and great pointers SpecialK. I have a bit more research to do, but at this point I'm leaning towards the K100D.

[DonSchap]

SONY appears to be trying to keep it's original pricing on the Minolta product line it had rebranded. They obviously want their money back from the purchase of the Minolta camera division. Those SONY prices, in comparison to other camera manufacturers, are equally high. They are not providing any price breaks ... other than the 15% discount on equipment purchased with the A100, itself. That being said, the equipment from Minolta was top-notch stuff, so if you do buy it new, although it will cost more... it is probably worth it.

Personally, I tend to hunt down the original Minolta equipment and buy it used. The stuff is quality and works just as well as the SONY-rebrands. They probably haven't changed anything. If the equipment has been maintained, it can be a great bargain.

Now, if I can just find a cheap Minolta G-series 70-200mm f/2.8 ...

[Dondi]

Thanks all. Your advice is greatly appreciated. I purchased the K100D for my daughter for the following reasons:

FORM FACTOR
The K100D is a relatively light and small digital SLR with comfortable handgrip, large control buttons and knobs, and a 2.5-inch LCD screen. This will make handling a bit easier for my 14 yr old. Sony A100 is similar in size.

STEADY SHOOTING
My daughter is an SLR newbie who is accustomed to smaller form factor point and shoots line the Sony DSC-N1. So, the inage stabilization will be very helpful in handling a larger SLR-like form factor. Sony A100 is similar in this regard as well.

Better noise performance at higher ISO settings
It appears to be universally recognized that the K100D out-performs the A100 at ISO settings of 800 or higher. Although this can be mitigated using post processing with PC software, that would add another degree of complexity.

PENTAX LENS SYSTEM
The verdict appears to be that the Pentax’s included 18- to 55-mm lens captures sharp pics with minimal distortion, while the wide range of historical Pentax lenses presents opportunity for affordable second-hand purchase of other good quality lenses. Sony A100 appears to enjoy similar conditions with historical Minolta lenses as well.

MEMORY CARDS
The K100D accepts SD cards, which appear to be a bit more cost-effective than CF or Memory Sticks. I also have several SD cards and Mini/Micro SD cards with adapters, so this might be an advantage (assuming that my cards are fast enough).

POWER
The K100D takes either lithium-ion battery or four AAs, so she can substitute disposables when money-saving rechargeables run dry.

PRICE
I was able to get her the K100D, with 18-55mm kit lens and 70-300mm lense for 50 more than the Sony with 18-70 kit lense. The Sony also includes LiON battery and charger which is a big plus for the Sony.

I'm sure I ended up paying a premium as I bought the set from a local Wolf Camera vs buying online. This is a risk I'm sure as this is my daughter's first "real" camera. However, I'm comfortable with it as:

(1) This insures that there'll be something under the tree on Christmas
(2) Daughter has demonstrated the ability to stick with something until she masters it (i.e., Tae Kwon Do Balckbelt, accomplished pianist and visual artist)

Truth be told, I am just as excited about the purchase as she will be when she unwraps it Christmas morning.

[SpecialK]

Hi:

Congratulations on getting a DSLR of any kind. I'm sure you will be borrowing your daughter's (it really is for her, right ? :-) from time to time and enjoying taking pictures with it. It does have some nice features and decent performance, and doesn't break the bank.

[Dondi]

Hi:

Congratulations on getting a DSLR of any kind. I'm sure you will be borrowing your daughter's (it really is for her, right ? :-) from time to time and enjoying taking pictures with it. It does have some nice features and decent performance, and doesn't break the bank.

Yes, it is for my daughter; but I do hope to "borrow" it from time to time -- if I can pry it from her hands. :D

Thanks for your help and advice.