nikon D50 trying to shoot a celing fan and get clear pics

[davew]

ok since the manual goes into 0 detail on how to use the other modes
maybe we need a tips and tricks section
here is what i am trying to do
i want to shoot good pics in low light
fast moving objects
so..
as a test i set the d50 in A mode bumped up the iso to 400 800 1600 and tried setting the F to the lowest
it still wont capture the ceiling fan blades in stop action without being blurry
where does one start?
Sports mode outside in the daytime fine great.

But I want to learn this camera and find 0 resources out there on how we actually USE the different modes properly.

[Jason25]

You'll need a faster lens to capture something like that, as there's generally much less ambient light indoors than there is outdoors. You'll need probably at very least a f2.8 lens, or just use flash at 1/500 in manual mode. :)

[davew]

Thank you

I am just flustered that I do not know information and have found the manual very lacking for a beginner in DSLR .

and real world sites with examples are not to big of a help or non existent.

Jason maybe you should write up some tips and how 2's? for us new to dslr :D:D

[XaiLo]

Thank you

I am just flustered that I do not know information and have found the manual very lacking for a beginner in DSLR .

and real world sites with examples are not to big of a help or non existent.

Jason maybe you should write up some tips and how 2's? for us new to dslr :D:D

You may want to purchase "Understanding Exposure" Revised Edition by Bryan Peterson. Exposure is a science of sorts especially if your in manual mode. The user manual does not cover the nuances of exposure. Considering that by just slightly moving a camera the optimum exposure setting can change... this subject is really beyond the scope of a user manual.

[Jason25]

I'll second that recommendation, it's a fantastic book for the basics. :)

[jcon]

Try shooting with a very high shutter speed and around an aperture of F9. ISO doesnt really matter, use flash.

To stop motion you must shoot with a high shutter speed. I also suggest doing some research and reading. There are alot of helpful tools and resources out there for you! This place is one of them, dont hesitate to ask questions!

Ofcourse the simple way to get a picture of the fan without the blades moving would be... turn the fan off :D

[CamNovice]

Davew,

I am very, very new myself and like you am less than satisfied with the manual that comes with the Nikon (I have the D80). My frustrations are similar to yours about the lack of information on the various modes. I have a thread running now about blurry pics and one kind member shared a high recommendation for a digital book that goes way beyond the manual with the camera and he says these manuals are very good. I just checked the site and they have one on the D50 as well. I am certainly going to be getting one myself based on this recommendation. The following is the link to the site with the digital books: http://www.bythom.com/

Below is the thread where tcadwall gives his thoughts about these books:

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26532&page=2

[davew]

Try shooting with a very high shutter speed and around an aperture of F9. ISO doesnt really matter, use flash.

To stop motion you must shoot with a high shutter speed. I also suggest doing some research and reading. There are alot of helpful tools and resources out there for you! This place is one of them, dont hesitate to ask questions!

Ofcourse the simple way to get a picture of the fan without the blades moving would be... turn the fan off :D

Ok I understand that a bit
I put the D50 in M mode
tested the shutter on a few settings hit the +/- dial and lowered the F number as low as it would go with my "kit" 18-55
I can see the difference in say 160 -400 leaving the F at 4 f 9 forget it lights and all are gone
so the higher the f the lower the light will be
I see:)
thanks that tip helped me a lot

[jamison55]

As a new Nikonian, I'll contribute.

The answer is simple - you need a fast shutter speed to stop the ceiling fan.

That's it...lesson over.


OK, maybe you knew that. So let's talk about how to get a fast shutter speed. Exposure 101 - there are three things that contribute to exposure: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. Using a combination of these you (or the camera) make a decision on how much light will hit the sensor and make the image.

For many scenes, you can choose any combination of shutter speed/aperture/ISO to get proper exposure, but when you are trying to stop a moving object, you have to have a fast shutter speed. So that means you have to get enough light to the sensor using a combination of aperture and ISO.

The more light you can get to the sensor using aperture and ISO, the faster your SS can be.

Lets start with aperture. I took the following images of my ceiling fan at its highest setting using different aperture/shutter speed cominations to make the same exposure (Nikon D80, Nikon 50 f1.8 lens):

f5.6 aperture required a 1/125 shutter speed. Not fast enough.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s125-56.jpg

f4 aperture required a 1/250 shutter speed. Not fast enough.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s250-4.jpg

f2.8 aperture required a 1/500 shutter speed. Almost fast enough.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s500-28.jpg

f1.8 aperture required a 1/1000 shutter speed. Finally fast enough. Bad focus do to shallower depth of focus at f1.8 - everything's a tradeoff!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s1000-18.jpg


So by opening up my aperture I was able to let more light in, allowing me to use faster shutter speeds.

That's why fast glass is so important to sports shooters. It's also a lot more expensive, and usually a lot bigger and heavier.


But what if your lens only opens up to f4 (like the kit lens)? You still need to get more light to the sensor in order to be able to use a faster shutter speed. You can do this by bumping up your ISO. Using just the ISO I can achieve the same results as above:

f5.6 aperture requires a 1/125 shutter speed at ISO100. Not fast enough.
f5.6 aperture required a 1/250 shutter speed at ISO200. Not fast enough.
f5.6 aperture required a 1/500 shutter speed at ISO400. Almost fast enough.
f5.6 aperture required a 1/1000 shutter speed at ISO1600. Finally fast enough.

Bottom line is to use the combination of aperture and ISO to stop the motion. Buying an f2.8 telephoto will really help get the fast shutter speeds!


Of course. you can also stop motion with your flash:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/sflash.jpg
(ISO 100, f5.6, 1/125)

But that's a topic for another thread...

[davew]

As a new Nikonian, I'll contribute.

The answer is simple - you need a fast shutter speed to stop the ceiling fan.

That's it...lesson over.


OK, maybe you knew that. So let's talk about how to get a fast shutter speed. Exposure 101 - there are three things that contribute to exposure: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. Using a combination of these you (or the camera) make a decision on how much light will hit the sensor and make the image.

For many scenes, you can choose any combination of shutter speed/aperture/ISO to get proper exposure, but when you are trying to stop a moving object, you have to have a fast shutter speed. So that means you have to get enough light to the sensor using a combination of aperture and ISO.

The more light you can get to the sensor using aperture and ISO, the faster your SS can be.

Lets start with aperture. I took the following images of my ceiling fan at its highest setting using different aperture/shutter speed cominations to make the same exposure (Nikon D80, Nikon 50 f1.8 lens):

f5.6 aperture required a 1/125 shutter speed. Not fast enough.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s125-56.jpg

f4 aperture required a 1/250 shutter speed. Not fast enough.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s250-4.jpg

f2.8 aperture required a 1/500 shutter speed. Almost fast enough.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s500-28.jpg

f1.8 aperture required a 1/1000 shutter speed. Finally fast enough. Bad focus do to shallower depth of focus at f1.8 - everything's a tradeoff!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/s1000-18.jpg


So by opening up my aperture I was able to let more light in, allowing me to use faster shutter speeds.

That's why fast glass is so important to sports shooters. It's also a lot more expensive, and usually a lot bigger and heavier.


But what if your lens only opens up to f4 (like the kit lens)? You still need to get more light to the sensor in order to be able to use a faster shutter speed. You can do this by bumping up your ISO. Using just the ISO I can achieve the same results as above:

f5.6 aperture requires a 1/125 shutter speed at ISO100. Not fast enough.
f5.6 aperture required a 1/250 shutter speed at ISO200. Not fast enough.
f5.6 aperture required a 1/500 shutter speed at ISO400. Almost fast enough.
f5.6 aperture required a 1/1000 shutter speed at ISO1600. Finally fast enough.

Bottom line is to use the combination of aperture and ISO to stop the motion. Buying an f2.8 telephoto will really help get the fast shutter speeds!


Of course. you can also stop motion with your flash:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/sflash.jpg
(ISO 100, f5.6, 1/125)

But that's a topic for another thread...

Your Post should be a sticky

So it looks like for my sons football games next year it might be time to plunk down some big cash for a better 70-300 I see the lower the F = the better it is for lighting also and my little 70-300mm for bright daylight may be fine but when the clouds roll on there goes the action shots and action shots in burst mode.

These are the tips I like
short sweet to the point.

Thank You

[jamison55]

The Nikon 80-200 f2.8D can be had used for around $500-600 on KEH.com. I have a friend that had one and it seems to be top notch optically.

[RichNY]

I agree with the book recommendation 100%.

Since you wanted tips: After setting your ISO and shutter speed, turn the fan off before pressing the shutter button;)

[TNB]

Since you wanted tips: After setting your ISO and shutter speed, turn the fan off before pressing the shutter button;)
LOL. After all, it's the same effect--a "stopped" fan. Myself, I'd prefer to see little motion to show some "action".

[jmat5]

Dave I just purchased a Nikon D70 last week from Ritz camera. Thay had a DVD for this camera the D50 and the D80. Great video about 1hr 20min long. They go over alot of stuff on this video and is great for newbies like myself. I think it cost aroud $20.00

[davew]

LOL. After all, it's the same effect--a "stopped" fan. Myself, I'd prefer to see little motion to show some "action".

The reason was for
example:
my kids are out riding a pedal bike down the street,
I would like to get shots of that without the spokes on the bike looking blurred.

[davew]

Dave I just purchased a Nikon D70 last week from Ritz camera. Thay had a DVD for this camera the D50 and the D80. Great video about 1hr 20min long. They go over alot of stuff on this video and is great for newbies like myself. I think it cost aroud $20.00
I was there at the local one last night and they tried tossing a book at me
so I guess that is all they had :(
DVD would be better

[K1W1]

I see the lower the F = the better it is for lighting

Just remember that the lower the f as you say the narrower the depth of field will be at that low f number so for fast moving sports you need to be much more accurate with exactly what you are focussing on. I try to keep the focus object / person in the centre of the frame and be zoomed back a little more than I would be from a stationery object. I then modify the composition by cropping in post processing.
The D50 does have a mode that allows the camera to track objects and automatically adjust the focus but I find that with only the 5 focus zones it can often get confused when people move out of one zone and not quite into another. You end up with great well focussed shots of grass with blurry Soccer players. :-)
There are always compromises in photography.

[wh0128]

I would like to get shots of that without the spokes on the bike looking blurred.

Where is the "action" in the shot if your kids look like they're just sitting on the bike? And if it is sunny outside, then you won't need a very wide opening to achieve a fast shutterspeed.

[TNB]

The reason was for
example:
my kids are out riding a pedal bike down the street,
I would like to get shots of that without the spokes on the bike looking blurred.
Well if you are using the D50 and take the photo outside on a sunny day, you can probably just set the camera to the sports mode, pan your kids with the camera, and take the shot. In the sport mode, the D50 tends to set the shutter speed very high (as well as automatically adjust some of the other settings) and that should freeze the spokes on the bike.

It you plan to take photos around dawn or dusk, your current lenses may have problems focusing fast enough in low level light depending on how fast your kids are riding their bikes. You may also need to adjust the ISO, unless your D50 is still set to default and the ISO automatically increases anyway (if I remember correctly). Then a high ISO may result in noise. And there is also the use of a Flash . . . SB-800 time?

If you ever want to show motion, start using shutter priority instead of the sport mode to gain more shutter control.

[K1W1]

I would like to get shots of that without the spokes on the bike looking blurred.

Freezing things like spokes can potentially make photos look very static.
Here is an example.
This photo is not wonderful but it illustrates the point. We have a 11yo basically standing still hitting a cricket ball bowled at something around 40 - 50 mph I guess. The shot was taken at 1/500 sec.

http://static.flickr.com/106/315600360_ae6821cddc_b.jpg

Cranking the shutter speed up to 1 / 1000 would have frozen the bat but IMO at least would have spoiled the effect.


(P.S. The body is a D50 with a Sigma 70-300APO lens)

[RichNY]

I was there at the local one last night and they tried tossing a book at me
so I guess that is all they had :(
DVD would be better

I've own and will recommend the DVD (as well as having read the books)
http://www.ppsop.com/site/store.html

*Everything is also available at Amazon dot com.

[davew]

I finally got it
no idea if i had the settings properly set up but here it is..
and NO the fan was not TURNED OFF:D

Nikon D50
2006/12/07 20:29:07.3
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Medium (2256 x 1496)
Lens: 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 G
Focal Length: 52mm
Exposure Mode: Aperture Priority
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/60 sec - F/5.6
Exposure Comp.: 0 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 200
Optimize Image: Vivid
White Balance: Auto
AF Mode: AF-S
Flash Sync Mode: Red Eye Reduction
Auto Flash Mode: Built-in TTL
Auto Flash Comp: 0 EV
Color Mode: Mode IIIa (sRGB)
Tone Comp.: Auto
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: Auto
Image Comment: DAVE_WHITE-2006
Long Exposure NR: Off

http://www.handgunplace.com/images/misc/fan2222.jpg

[jamison55]

I hate to burst your bubble, Dave, but you froze the ceiling fan with your flash, not with the shutter speed required to stop the action. While this works indoors on a ceiling fan (and people too), it's not of much value for sports (which was why you tried the experiment in the first place), because most flashes don't have the reach. I know this is confusing, but here's a thread where we discussed it in much detail (while looking at Andy's awesome wedding pics...): http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21644

[K1W1]

I was about to make the same comment. That fan must have been moving at glacial speed to be frozen at 1/60 sec exposure - unless the flash fired which it did.
The whole point of this I think was sports images so really you should be outside shooting cars driving down the street or anything else that is moving that does not require a flash ti freeze it.

[davew]

Dummy I am didnt even think of that lol
I was just happy to be shooting pics in something other then Green mode :(

[rdog]

Dave,

Keep trying. I am new to this as well and find that figuring it out is most of the fun.

Jammison55,

I read your original reply to Dave's question and have to say that is one of the best replies I have read, and I have been pouring through the forums trying to learn. Thank you for taking the time to help us beginners out.

[rawpaw18]

Hi blue07,
I think this got resolved a little over 2 years ago. It is an old thread.
Nice to have you join us though. :)

[Visual Reality]

Hi blue07,
I think this got resolved a little over 2 years ago. It is an old thread.
Nice to have you join us though. :)
That is a planted message for advertising...check the sig.

[rawpaw18]

Ah,
Sometimes I am not too bright, ok a lot of times.
thanks man

[Visual Reality]

It's alright. It was pretty convincing.