Got a New Toy coming today...

[jamison55]

It's out on the UPS truck for delivery as we speak, fresh from B&H...

I'll post a few comparison images once I get it. Anyone want to venture a guess...?

A coupla hints:

- It's got more megapixels.

- Many of my current lenses won't work on it.

- I sold my 30D, bcuz I don't need 4 cameras

PS - Hi guys - sorry I haven't been around much...busy...you know...

[NewTekBuzz]

is it a 5D?

[24Peter]

Yeah, my guess too: a 5Delicious (did I spell that right?) Or maybe a 1DsMKII (did I spell that right?)
What prompted the change Jamison?

[cdifoto]

I think he downgraded to a 10D because he knows he's awesome and doesn't need the latest and greatest.


I love how he comes back just to brag. ;)

[jamison55]

I know right - how bad do I suck when I come back to brag about new gear...sorry guys...:o Truth be known, though, this is my "Gear Talk" forum, and I haven't had any new gear to talk about lately...just boring old wedding pictures with my boring old existing gear...

I'll make it up by posting comparison images from the 20D I still have and the new thing... It'll be fair because in the 8 months I shot them side by side, there was no difference between the output of the 20D and that of the 30D that I could see. The 30D just had a bigger LCD...

I'm gonna strip out the EXIF, though, to ensure your unbiased opinions. Gotta decide if this is a direction I really want to go in.

[cdifoto]

Gotta decide if this is a direction I really want to go in.

Uh oh. This statement makes me think you went Nikon! :eek:


Or maybe you're just unsure about lugging a heavy 1 series around. :p

I really can't see you carrying a 1 series around. Not much to be gained in a wedding environment actually. But I can see you with a 5D. Similar form factor to your 20D but even better ISO and hopefully autofocus for those less than ideal situations. Not much heavier than a 20D/30D so weight wouldn't be as big an issue.

[NewTekBuzz]

cdi-

I think you might be right.. cus he said...

- Many of my current lenses won't work on it.

hmmm :cool:

[jamison55]

Dang it - missed the effing UPS guy. He always comes after 3 - today he came at 1. Have to wait till tomorrow...

[cdifoto]

Dang it - missed the effing UPS guy. He always comes after 3 - today he came at 1. Have to wait till tomorrow...

That's why I went down to the local sorting plant at 7AM for my laptop. Last day before the Thanksgiving holidays...I sure as heck didn't wanna miss that package! :rolleyes: :D

[NewTekBuzz]

call them then go pick it up when the truck returns!! :D

[timmciglobal]

You bought a 5D?

Really jamison I'd of waited. It's almost a guarentee that a new 5d is in feb and it's gotta be better then the 5D since the 5D is a 30D with a bigger sensor and VF. (and the "invisible af points")

As far as quality, what I REALLY would like to see is some ISO 1600 comparisons since thats where people preach the 5d's IQ advantage.

Also throw a 135L shot in there too just so people can say "wow I really like #3" and I can continue egging myself on to waste 750 on a focal length I'd rarly ever use.

Tim

[Vich]

Jamison, happy to see you dropping in.

Nice guessing game.

"many" not "all" existing equipment. That's the stumper. I figured you don't have any non-Canon lenses.

I'd have thought you might try for either in-camera IS so you can add IS to a very fast Carl Ziess prime - just as a trial (you being so unconventional and all). Not to replace the great high-ISO Canon stuff at first, just to look and compare.

or a Medium Format system - but for that the used market offers much better deals to try things out. Also; for that a reduced on-line comparison wouldn't have much point.

As for 1D, I could see a well-traveled pro wanting the weather sealing. After all, you can't cancel a wedding if it rains or the wind kicks up wickedly.

Whatever it is, congrads! Sure you'll do it justice.

PS: Really miss seeing your amazing posts. Guess all the oogling people did on your last bride put you off on further posts. A shame.

[timmciglobal]

Hopefully it's a 1ds mk2... that way we can start saying "well sure if I had a 1ds mk2 I could shoot like jamison" instead of blaming ourselves :p

Tim

[Mark_48]

Dang it - missed the effing UPS guy. He always comes after 3 - today he came at 1. Have to wait till tomorrow...

UPS did that to me a short while ago with an order from B&H. They came at 1pm while both my wife and I were at work, but.........surprisingly came back later the same day when I was home. I was sweating having to go to their depot to pick it up if they couldn't make a delivery 2 days in a row. For you it's almost next door, for me it's close to a 60 mile round trip. Really sucks when a new toy gets so close and you can't get it until the next day.

Mark.......

[adam75south]

i know what you mean...a few weeks ago, i ordered a new HD monitor and dvi cable, the monitor showed up and the cable didn't. actually had to view it in regular def analog for the next couple of days.

but if i had to pick, i'd have picked to get the monitor first.

[jamison55]

The saga continues - I saw the UPS truck drive by...at 5:00, so I followed it and talked to my normal driver. Seems they are splitting up the work in anticipation of the Christmas rush. He gave me a number to the local office who said I can pick it up between 8:00 and 8:30. Not sure if I'll be able to take any shots tonight since I'll need to charge a battery...:D

Mark - I feel you man. When I lived in N. Brookfield everything was a hike...well everything except Chooches and Klems!

Vich - man you really make a guy know how to feel missed!

[cwphoto]

Hmmm, I'm thinking 5D - probably the best wedding camera out there from what I hear.

If so, I think that will be the first permanent 5D on these boards from a regular member.

All of this is obviously pure speculation at this point...

[NewTekBuzz]

Not sure if I'll be able to take any shots tonight since I'll need to charge a battery...:D

Mark - I feel you man. When I lived in N. Brookfield everything was a hike...well everything except Chooches and Klems!

Vich - man you really make a guy know how to feel missed!

cant you use a batt. from one of your dif. canon cameras? :eek: until new batt. charges?? ........or is it a dif. brand camera. :eek: :confused: :eek:

have fun and dont stay up to late

[jamison55]

Chased the UPS guy down...First images, straight from the camera 100% crops.

First image is from the 20D ISO 1600, AWB, AV Mode, f2.8, +2/3 EV Comp, 17-55 f2.8 at approximately 50mm.

Second image is from the contender (I downsized the file to match the resolution of the 20D). ISO 1600, AWB, AV Mode, f2.8, no EV Comp. Lens/FL equivalent to the 17-55... but it's not L glass :D .

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/Image2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/Image1.jpg


What do you think...talk amongst yourselves...

Which one has better color? Better noise control? Better sharpness (though lenses have something to do with that)...?

[RichNY]

I'm going to go with a Leica M8 or a Hasselblad because its the only medium format B&H sells (at least new) since they don't carry Leaf or Phase.

I've never seen that much difference between a 20D and 17-55 quality glass and the 5D or 1D before.

Eliminate Nikon- Not enough noise.

* Before Don chimes in- Is it an XTi with a Tamron lens? :)

[jamison55]

A leaf? No it's a monkey ;)

[24Peter]

The one on the right is clearly a better image. Not MF better though.

[RichNY]

Unless there's a piece of exotic glass responsible for the difference in quality would a 1Ds Mark II give that type picture quality difference especially with a non L zoom lens?

[aparmley]

Help me sound it out kids. . . .

JAY - MAH - SUN . . . . jay-mah-sun :confused:

Who's the new guy and how did he rack up 1,300+ posts in such a short amount of time? wait a minute. . . he's been around since Jul '04. . . funny I should have remembered seeing some of those posts though :cool: .


Jamie, welcome back, you should have expected to catch a lot of shit because we just so happen to thoroughly enjoy all those "Boring" wedding photos. . . But, I for one take no offense, I can see why this is your gear forum and not your critique forum. Sure, I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly bought all my camera gear just to take cool test photos and images of my dog - training for the day to take photos of my kids doing stupid shit. PLus, I'm a Bokeh Junkie, sure I can admit it - I go to group and everything. Doc said after a few years of electro-shock therapy and nearly going bankrupt supporting an intense/aggressive prescription med cocktail I'll be back to point and shoot status in no time!

See, the forum has grown more witty, more cynical, more sharp, yet just as laid back as ever. . .

I've lost the taste for the guessing games - Because I can't get this same mental image out of my head - the image is of all those damn extra large gold fish at the zoo going crazy over the fish food some one starts dropping into the lake - To clarify - very similar food, different person everytime - same reaction from the fish - catch my drift?

Anyway, If you want my opinion the second image looks better hands down. I'm not sure of the direction you are leaning so I'll look forward to hearing about that direction after the guessing game is over.

IMHO, if you think the new body is going to take your photography to higher level, don't look back. I know you didn't come here looking for the answer to that question. I think you came looking to validate what you believe you are seeing. So, far it looks like we see it too!

Anyway - hopefully I wasn't too blunt. Great to hear from you again, exciting times when new gear arrives. I look forward to reading more. . .

Take care . . .

[timmciglobal]

It looks sharper, better noise control too.

If it's not a 1ds mk2 I'd love to know what gave that nice a noise patern at ISO 1600.

Colors look similar so it's not a M8 (and the M6's iso 1600 is noisier)

Tim

[jamison55]

Wow Andy, ummm, I love you too.... :(

I want a chance to do some more tests in the morning before I really make up my mind.

As for the "guessing games", I really want to make sure that folks are unbiased when making judgements on the relative quality of the images. I tend to see new gadgets through rose colored glasses, and have a hard time finding fault where I should. I really value all of you guys chiming in with your opinions. I'll be posting some more in the morning when I have more light.

My "gear forum" comment was not a slight on the quality of the critique here at all. I just figure that this is the "Canon Digital SLR's" gear forum, and that folks get tired of my "look what I can do with my camera" posts. Also, last time I posted a wedding here, I got some personal comments about the bride and groom. This is a public forum, and my clients have run across my posts.

Sorry if it hit you the wrong way this evening...

Tell you what, I'll make it up to you with a shot of Luke...with my "sharpest in the world" 50 f1.8

http://ct.pbase.com/o6/30/516430/1/70238211.IwOUmOgr.1111Dump112a.jpg

[aparmley]

Wow Andy, ummm, I love you too.... :(

I want a chance to do some more tests in the morning before I really make up my mind.

As for the "guessing games", I really want to make sure that folks are unbiased when making judgements on the relative quality of the images. I tend to see new gadgets through rose colored glasses, and have a hard time finding fault where I should. I really value all of you guys chiming in with your opinions. I'll be posting some more in the morning when I have more light.

My "gear forum" comment was not a slight on the quality of the critique here at all. I just figure that this is the "Canon Digital SLR's" gear forum, and that folks get tired of my "look what I can do with my camera" posts. Also, last time I posted a wedding here, I got some personal comments about the bride and groom. This is a public forum, and my clients have run across my posts.

Sorry if it hit you the wrong way this evening...

Tell you what, I'll make it up to you with a shot of Luke...with my "sharpest in the world" 50 f1.8

http://ct.pbase.com/o6/30/516430/1/70238211.IwOUmOgr.1111Dump112a.jpg

:o

Sorry JW. I suppose my humor was too subtle? Seriously though, I was just being stupidily humorous. I guess I'm the only one that or will get a bunch of laughs out of my post. My apologies.

I didn't read into your "Gear" comment negatively - I believe I saw how it could be and quite possibly how it had been taken - so I again, I played off of that with a joke. Damn, rough crowd again. Then I tried to through int he whole so freaking funny because its really true comment, but that bombed too. I missed the mark clearly. Again, sorry about that. No offense meant, honestly.

Great image of Luke!

I know what you mean about rose colored goggles. . .

I seriously do think the second image is better in every respect. Almost makes me think the first image had a focus problem it so different. . . .

Hey, just out of curiousity and only if its right there off the top of your head, but, did you notice any horribly worse noise performance with the 30D when using ISO at anything but the standard full stop increments. I haven't tested it scientifically yet, but I've formulated with my real world images that noise at ISO 1250 is as bad or worse than noise at ISO 1600 on my 30D and while its harder to see, the same appears to be true at lower ISOs too. . . I'm wondering if this has to do with the interpolation or extrapolation, which ever term, involved in creating the 1/3 stop increments in ISO selectablility? Anyway, nothing corfirmed, just "speculating on a Hypothesis."

[jamison55]

Dude - just bustin on you a bit :p I know you got nothin' but love!

I've been thinking that the focus might be off in that shot as well. Why I want to take more tests in the morning.

I'm also the first to say, "screw the tests", the results here were just somewhat of a surprise to me. I expected good color and sharpness, and spot on exposure, but the low noise was pleasantly surprising...shocking really.

I have a model lined up for Sunday morning to run it through its paces in the real world and a wedding in two weeks...

[RichNY]

Jamie- I'm having a hard time relating to the picture taken with the 20D and 17-55IS. I've got the 30D with the same lens and I just can't picture it taking that type of questionable quality image.

It's not the noise that has me thrown, but the image seems almost out of focus and lacks the crispness that the 17-55 IS has.

Could you take another shot with the 20D verifying you've got all the settings proper. I feel stupid with my level of experience asking someone at your level, but something just doesn't feel right about your 1st capture.

[aparmley]

Dude - just bustin on you a bit :p I know you got nothin' but love!

I've been thinking that the focus might be off in that shot as well. Why I want to take more tests in the morning.

I'm also the first to say, "screw the tests", the results here were just somewhat of a surprise to me. I expected good color and sharpness, and spot on exposure, but the low noise was pleasantly surprising...shocking really.

I have a model lined up for Sunday morning to run it through its paces in the real world and a wedding in two weeks...


Well, I've had a bit of an odd forum presence lately and only two possiblities existed - either I can no longer see the line of appropriateness, its always been a fine line, OR you were just jerkin my chain right back . . . figured. ;)

[Vich]

Well, I've had a bit of an odd forum presence lately and only two possiblities existed - either I can no longer see the line of appropriateness, its always been a fine line, OR you were just jerkin my chain right back . . . figured. ;) Now Andy, don't go gett'n all sensitive on us! Don't ya be changing and depriving us of any of your golden humor!

However; I did hear the "wizzz" by my ear as one of those analogies sailed over my head, lol!

[Vich]

Jamison:

I'll hold judgement until you can post better 30D photos. That one is clearly umm, unclear.

Either way; the 2nd shot is also clearly from a very nice system!

PS: I felt for you on your prior post from months ago, when the inappropriate comments towards your client kept coming. One guy on POTN commented their photo had been lifted and used for a singles ad. Yikes! Imagine that embarasement. Anyhow; don't be a stranger. Be nice to see photos but your absense was noticable.

[adam75south]

5d all the way.

[cdifoto]

Racking my brain to guess gives me headaches but please, please, please don't move out of the Canon system Jamie. I can't afford to follow. :( :eek:

[jamison55]

Aaarg - interruptions! I have more pictures to post, and most of the time it is a ghost town here at my office. Today I have all sorts of folks milling around my desk. I promise I won't keep you guys waiting too long...

Now Don, If I jumped off a bridge...

[jamison55]

Wow, what a busy (and crappy) day here in NE. Drizzly cold rain... I had to run out of the house quickly this morning because the cleaning lady came, so i did a quick high ISO shootout on my dashboard. Here you go. The first shot from each is the 20D with 17-55 IS the second is the mystery camera. Tested at ISO's 800 and 1600 f2.8 and 4. AWB, AV mode, The 20D seems to need a little +EV Comp for correct exposure the mystery camera needs a little - EV comp. The results here are more along the lines of what I was expecting than last nights example (which was clearly misfocused on the 20D shot).

Here's the target:


20D(Left) MC (Right)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/bigpic20d.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/BigpicM.jpg



f2.8 1600 20D (Left) f2.8 1600 MC (Right)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/1600f2-1.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/1600f2.jpg

f4 1600 20D (Left) f4 1600 MC (Right)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/1600f420D.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/1600f4M.jpg

f4 800 20D (Left) f4 800 MC (Right)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/800f420D.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/800f4M.jpg

[GaryS]

Both look excellent to me... I wouldn't bet that it wasn't just another 20D!

[RichNY]

MC looked a little better in some areas in terms of noise and blues, but honestly to my eyes the 20D with that lens holds its ground pretty well against the MC.

It looks like there is more of a difference shooting stepped down v. wide open.

I think part of what makes it challenging for me is the fact that the subject is glossy and how it is reflecting the light.

Can you edit the post so the pics are side by side- part of the comparison is lost scrolling up and down and trying to remember what you just saw.

[timmciglobal]

The MC looks a hair sharper but the 20D noise looks better in those shots.

/boggle

Tim

[jamison55]

Edited to side-by-side, Rich.


OK, here's my secret...I'm a bi shooter...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/1600me-1.jpg


So nobody panic - I have too much invested in Canon to switch. This was kind of an impulse purchase...a chance to see how the other half lives...I've always wondered, haven't you?

I plan to purchase a 5D as soon as the new year switches over and I can put it on next year's taxes (I have to make a profit this year and will need the deductions next year). I have until 1/13 to claim the $600 rebate. When that happens, I would have had 4 Canon bodies XT, 20D, 30D, 5D...too many to really use. I have to hold on to the 20D and XT for one more year before they are fully depreciated, but I haven't claimed the 30D on my taxes yet. If I claimed the 30D, then I would have to wait for two more tax years before I could sell it, or lose my deduction. I have to tell you, after shooting for 8 months with the 20D and 30D side by side (i.e. once the newness wore off), there was nothing about the 30D that made me like it more than the 20D. I was initially enamoured by the bigger LCD, but that wore off after a few weddings of zooming in, only to think that all of my shots were OOF because of the softness of the lcd display when zoomed. So it made the most sense to sell the 30D and pick up something else to give me back the tax deduction I was giving up.

This is not a complete impulse purchase, however. I have been using off camera lighting at wedding receptions lately, fired by radio slaves. Problem is, when I want to ride with just a transmitter in the hot shoe, the Canon has no body integrated AF assist, and has a tough time acquiring focus in the dark reception halls. I have had several frustrating weddings lately where I have had to really fight with the camera to get it to focus when I didn't have a flash in the hotshoe. Nikon's body integrated AF assist solves the problem. It also shoots a beam of light out of the camera - so we'll have to see if the distraction of a light in the face offsets the ability to focus in the dark... My plan is to use the Nikon as a reception camera with the off camera lights, and the Canons as the available light - high ISO bodies. Call it an experiment.

So anyway, before I go to a wedding in a couple of weeks with a Canon in one hand and a Nikon in the other, I wanted to see the limitations of the Nikon system. I already know the limitations of the Canon system... Thus the tests here.

There are alerady some things that I really love about the Nikon body:
- Grid lines in the VF (I'm anal about straigh horizons when I'm not tilting)
- Commander mode - holy cow that feature ROCKS with the SB800 I bought
- Fullscreen preview with flashing highlight indicator
- Body integrated AF Assist
- Large viewfinder - you can really see the difference between the 20D and D80

Oh, and the lens I'm using on the Nikon is a Tamron 17-50 f2.8, I just couldn't bring myself to spend the $$$ on the Nikon glass...


So far I like the files from the 20D a little better. Though I'm pleasantly surprised by the high ISO performance of the D80 - the 20D is still slightly better, especially better at holding the detail in the shadow areas. The 20D also feels more robust - the D80 is no slouch, but it feels slightly plasticky next to the 20D. Kind of a cross between the XT and 20D.

Tired of typing right now - I'll continue to add my observations as I shoot more with the Nikon, and I'll post the results of my model shoot this weekend, where I plan to shoot with both bodies...

[jamison55]

I seriously do think the second image is better in every respect. Almost makes me think the first image had a focus problem it so different. . . .

I think you're right. Todays tests showed them much closer in sharpness.



Hey, just out of curiousity and only if its right there off the top of your head, but, did you notice any horribly worse noise performance with the 30D when using ISO at anything but the standard full stop increments. I haven't tested it scientifically yet, but I've formulated with my real world images that noise at ISO 1250 is as bad or worse than noise at ISO 1600 on my 30D and while its harder to see, the same appears to be true at lower ISOs too. . . I'm wondering if this has to do with the interpolation or extrapolation, which ever term, involved in creating the 1/3 stop increments in ISO selectablility? Anyway, nothing corfirmed, just "speculating on a Hypothesis."

Hey Andy - just saw your edit. I never shot much at the in-between ISOs since I usually shot with the 20D around my neck and 30D on my shoulder. I would typically set them to the same setting for consistency. But the few times that I did shoot at an in between ISO, I didn't notice any more or less noise. Tough to say, though, because for real world stuff I never look at screen magnification above 50%. If it looks good enough at 50%, it will look good enough in the largest print a client would order from me. Sorry I could't back your hypothesis...:)

[adam75south]

well crap. it's a nikon.

[forno]

I had a Nikon D200 with 17-55 af-s in my hands for 10 minutes on sunday, pretty nice bit of kit:cool:

Didnt want to start fiddling setting too much, layout of all the buttons doesnt seem as intuitive as the Canons

Impressed with the view finder and the speed and silemnce of the focusing

[cdifoto]

I have had several frustrating weddings lately where I have had to really fight with the camera to get it to focus when I didn't have a flash in the hotshoe. Nikon's body integrated AF assist solves the problem. It also shoots a beam of light out of the camera - so we'll have to see if the distraction of a light in the face offsets the ability to focus in the dark... My plan is to use the Nikon as a reception camera with the off camera lights, and the Canons as the available light - high ISO bodies. Call it an experiment

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get an ST-E2 and just make it a habit to always "install" it when you don't have/want a flash on the camera than to invest in an entirely new system?

Granted the gridlines and bigger viewfinder would be nice too but you can use your AF dots for alignment and the current viewfinders aren't really all that bad, IMHO. You get the commander mode back if you have your ST-E2 on there. The fullsize flashing highlights wouldn't be a big deal to me. I can see them fine in the small version. Again, nice to have, but not worth changing or doubling up on systems.

And no, I'm not knocking Nikon. Even if I had Nikon right now I wouldn't find it logical to shoot 2 systems just for the minor conveniences.

[jamison55]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get an ST-E2 and just make it a habit to always "install" it when you don't have/want a flash on the camera than to invest in an entirely new system?

Granted the gridlines and bigger viewfinder would be nice too but you can use your AF dots for alignment and the current viewfinders aren't really all that bad, IMHO.

Cheaper - bah! Seriously, I was going back and forth on whether or not I shoudl buy it, and running all the justifications by my wife. She saw through my BS and said "What it really boils down to is that the 5D will benefit your business, but the Nikon is a toy. Didn't you get into this in the first place to be able to afford nice toys...:D (I have the best freakin' wife - and she's hot too)!

But, about the ST-E2, it doesn't solve my problem because it sits in the hotshoe. I want to put the radio transmitter in the hotshoe. I have 2 hotshoes on my bracket, but this is for the time of night when I like to set the bracket down...

And actually, I'm not the first to go "bi". I know of a few shooters that shoot Canon + Nikon at a wedding. It has always seemed to me that they both have their strengths - with the Nikons having a better feature set, and the Canons giving better IQ. I have always chosen IQ over the features of the Nikons. Now I have an opportunity to use both. Shouldn't be too different than using a 20D + XT (i.e. two different control schemes), and that worked pretty well for me. Like I said, an experiment. I may have the whole Nikon kit on EBAY in a couple of months...

But, the experimentation has already fired me up creatively. If all this experiment does is push me to a different place creatively because I have to learn a new system, then it's money well spent!

[Vich]

Dang!

I was in the middle of a post 3 hours ago and had to abandon it before posting.

I guessed Nikon D200 or some other non-Canon brand (don't know much about the Nikon line). Reasoning was that the whites and dash-board were bluer (cooler) and there were visible blue blotches around the outer edge of the big "e" at 1600ISO as well as slightly ragged edges and deeper color saturation. All this indicated more PP. The Canon was blurrier but smoother transitions.

Anyway; lost my screen. Dang, coulda won a cookie or something.

Congrads on it. Hope it's the ticket for you. I'd think that softer isn't always a bad thing if colors and edges are truer.

[adam75south]

Dang!

I was in the middle of a post 3 hours ago and had to abandon it before posting.

I guessed Nikon D200 or some other non-Canon brand (don't know much about the Nikon line). Reasoning was that the whites and dash-board were bluer (cooler) and there were visible blue blotches around the outer edge of the big "e" at 1600ISO as well as slightly ragged edges and deeper color saturation. All this indicated more PP. The Canon was blurrier but smoother transitions.

Anyway; lost my screen. Dang, coulda won a cookie or something.

Congrads on it. Hope it's the ticket for you. I'd think that softer isn't always a bad thing if colors and edges are truer.

i almost guessed that too but thought it wouldn't be enough of an upgrade.

[cwphoto]

Hmmm, the problem with going "bi" I suspect would be getting the pictures to look consistent - that's a showstopper right there for me.

[jamison55]

You definitely have a great point there Mr. Wright! I have had a couple of second shooters recently who shot with Nikon - and I could definitely tell the difference in the files. But I'm not sure if the clients could... Like I said, an experiment...

Also, I am already gettin two different looks from my Canon cameras when I fire up the room lights. The external Sunpaks I use are a slightly different color temp than the Canon Speedlight, and I'm almost always bouncing the Canon (causing more color casts), while I tend to shoot the Sunpaks straight on. If the Nikon is my "reception flash" camera then I might be OK.

Or maybe not...

[RichNY]

Jamie- You've been right with every bit of photographic advice you've ever given me, so I'll return the favor.

You need a new accountant- seriously. Just about everything in your post about depreciation, etc. is wrong. You should be using a section 179 deduction to write off the entire purchase amount in the year you place a piece of equipment into service rather than depreciating it over multiple years.

I'll be happy to speak to you about this offline but it might even be worth your while to re-file your prior years return when you purchased large amounts of assets that are not yet fully depreciated and get a tax refund. You are in essence giving the government an interest free loan as you depreciate your items.

This election to take the deduction up front rather than depreciating it over multiple years is limitted to the first $105k you purchased in 2005, and goes up to to the first $108k you purchased in 2006. I'm guessing you didn't spend anywhere near that on bodies, glass, lighting, etc. in each of these years- and if you did, you should only be depreciating the amount in excess of the first $105k.

Knowing about this is something any CPA should have told you- it's not like its a hidden loophole buried in the tax code.

Oh- Congrats on the new camera. I swapped my 30D with a friend's D200 for some shooting on Sunday and really liked the way it felt.

[Mark_48]

Before long JW will probably have one of these in the kit as well...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-F-lens-to-Canon-EOS-20D-30D-5D-350D-400D-adapter_W0QQitemZ180057077904QQihZ008QQcategoryZ30 059QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Couldn't find one that went the other way:p

[jamison55]

Jamie- You've been right with every bit of photographic advice you've ever given me, so I'll return the favor.

You need a new accountant- seriously. Just about everything in your post about depreciation, etc. is wrong. You should be using a section 179 deduction to write off the entire purchase amount in the year you place a piece of equipment into service rather than depreciating it over multiple years.

I'll be happy to speak to you about this offline but it might even be worth your while to re-file your prior years return when you purchased large amounts of assets that are not yet fully depreciated and get a tax refund. You are in essence giving the government an interest free loan as you depreciate your items.

This election to take the deduction up front rather than depreciating it over multiple years is limitted to the first $105k you purchased in 2005, and goes up to to the first $108k you purchased in 2006. I'm guessing you didn't spend anywhere near that on bodies, glass, lighting, etc. in each of these years- and if you did, you should only be depreciating the amount in excess of the first $105k.

Knowing about this is something any CPA should have told you- it's not like its a hidden loophole buried in the tax code.

Oh- Congrats on the new camera. I swapped my 30D with a friend's D200 for some shooting on Sunday and really liked the way it felt.

Rich - an accountant is on my list one of new purchases for 2007 (right after the 5D :)) - the first year that this wedding thing will actually make me some real money. Right now I'm my own accountant, so any advice is appreciated! I have been using Turbo Tax, which has walked me through the section 179 deduction, so I have been fully depreciating all of my ger in the year I purchased it, but it's my understanding that if you sell it before the full depreciation has occurred then you have to pay some of it back. I'd be really happy if I was mistaken!

[jamison55]

Before long JW will probably have one of these in the kit as well...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-F-lens-to-Canon-EOS-20D-30D-5D-350D-400D-adapter_W0QQitemZ180057077904QQihZ008QQcategoryZ30 059QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Couldn't find one that went the other way:p

LOL Mark - one of the things that I like about Canon over Nikon, is that my Canons let me use my old pentax glass and still meter!

[timmciglobal]

Nikon eh? :p

Should of gotten the D200 :p The control layout is sweet.

My dream is one day nikon gets bought by canon, they put 30D sensor in a D200 and hurl the canon flash system into the ocean :p

Tim

[jamison55]

That would be awesome Tim - a reason why the Fuji S5 will be a camera to watch...

I've never played with a 580ex, but the SB800 is seriously sweet, and the wireless commander mode is really cool as well.

[ReF]

good to see ya back jamie. does the nikon + tamron glass AF just as well as your canon glass?

[jamison55]

Hi Ref! So far, yes, but that's in my family room downstairs... The AF assist in the body puts out a pretty bright light.

The AF on the Nikon seems to be a little better than that on my 20D so far. It's different. With the Canon, I'm used to the lens moving a little bit every time you half press the shutter. I usually do a little shutter flutter to make sure the focus point is locked on. With the Nikon, when it locks on it's solid. Half pressing the shutter again has no effect. The focus just stays in place. I suspect it has to to with the fact that the Nikon focus motor is in the body while the Canon focus motor is in the lens. I really want to test it out at a faster paced shoot before I really pass judgement, though...

[timmciglobal]

I don't know if you realize it yet jamison but the D80 can commander mode from the built in flash. It only supports 2 vs 4 channels I think but it can command SB600/800's.

Also, check out nikonians.org they have a great article I think under D200 forums about the AF Cam-1000 system and and myrid of options including lock-on.

Tim

[jamison55]

I don't know if you realize it yet jamison but the D80 can commander mode from the built in flash. It only supports 2 vs 4 channels I think but it can command SB600/800's.

Also, check out nikonians.org they have a great article I think under D200 forums about the AF Cam-1000 system and and myrid of options including lock-on.

Tim

Yep - one of the first things I played with last night. Pretty dang cool. I'll check out the Nikonians article - thanks!

[ReF]

thanks jamie. your posts are usually quite informative and seeing ya back kinda make this frustrating day a little better. i'm pretty sure some the artwork i was shipping to a gallery was bent when the UPS clerks took it out of the tubes - what a headache :mad: . it'll be really interesting to hear what you think of the nikon system while you get to use it more, especially if the 3rd party lenses work well with it.

[jamison55]

Awww, man, I didn't realize I was so missed...:o

I'm really hoping that the Nikon works better with the 3rd parties than my Canons did. $1600 for a body + lens + flash is one thing...don't think I can get my wife to be so understanding about $1000's in Nikon glass:eek: .

[24Peter]

Awww, man, I didn't realize I was so missed...:o

I'm really hoping that the Nikon works better with the 3rd parties than my Canons did. $1600 for a body + lens + flash is one thing...don't think I can get my wife to be so understanding about $1000's in Nikon glass:eek: .

I'm a little late to the party today but once I saw the second series of photos I knew it wasn't a 5D - too much high ISO noise and no discernable difference in resolution. The D80 looks like a nice camera feature-wise and I've always felt Nikon images pop a bit more than Canon's straight out of the camera.

I also agree with Rich you need better tax advice. As for the depreciation thing, I think if you sell a camera in a future year, you just add the amount you get for it as income in that year.

[aparmley]

I got to be honest. Before I saw some strange thing in the mirror (the camera) I thought the 20D images were the stronger of the two - the noise was by far the most noticable difference.

The line about if Nikon boosts your creativity then its worth is, IMHO, dead on. Yes, I've always wondered and I've always wanted a Nikon too. I know Canon is probably going to be the better of the two with natural light shooting. . . but that hasn't curbed my curiousity.

What really matters is how the Nikon renders Luke, am I right? ;)

[jamison55]

What really matters is how the Nikon renders Luke, am I right? ;)


Ab-so-rute-rey!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/DSC_0064.jpg

[timmciglobal]

He's smiling because he's going to be able to sell his dad's equipment for a small fortune when he goes blind from reading these boards every 6 seconds :p

Q jamison, red channel exposure high on that one? The D200 for me was always pushing red channel.

Tim

[jamison55]

Luke doesn't like the AF assist light though...he's like, "stop it Dad, it's bright"

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/jamiewexler/DSC_0109.jpg

Tim - I'm definitely seeing a push in the red channel, esp under tungsten light. The handy RGB histogram makes it easy to see. Gotta figure out a way to deal with it...

And I've been expecting to go blind for years...but from something my mom told me when I was 13 or so, not from reading the boards!

[timmciglobal]

13?

Must of been sitting too close to the TV playing video games unless it took you a while to figure out how the zoom fuction works :p

Tim

[noyjimi]

Q jamison, red channel exposure high on that one? The D200 for me was always pushing red channel.

Tim

Weird that you mention this Tim - I've always felt that my 20D is a bit too eager with the red channel.