Looking for a Panasonic point and shoot with excellent image quality

[phoenixbebe]

I've read that there is noise in a lot of the pictures taken with Panasonic cameras, esp. at higher ISOs. I would like to know about your experiences taking photos using Panasonics with pictures taken at ISO 400/800/1600 etc. Also, how are the cameras when used in Auto Mode?

I would like to limit my usage of Photoshop or a noise-reducing software just to have clear pictures. Of course, to enhance the pictures using these methods are fine. Thanks for your help.

I was looking at the TZ1 as well as some other models. any recommendations would be appreciated.

[Grimm]

I think you'll have to be more specific as to how you will be using the camera to get recommendations.

As for myself, I just got the DMC-FZ7 yesterday. I don't know the first thing about photography, but after getting a feel for what aperture and shutter speed do, I shot this picture. It was in a mostly dark room, and I used the flash (with a piece of paper in front of it to reduce the glare). I don't remember the settings right now, but the ISO was 400. I think it looks pretty good for such a newb.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6744/p1000021zx9.jpg

[Telecorder]

first so you can better understand what/when its use is important. Most all Pany Z units are for zoom which implies outdoor usage with good lighting. When used in this manner, its seldom one has a need to going to a higher ISO except when the lighting is poor. Usually, one uses a higher ISO when the lighting is marginal to achieve a certain (higher) shutter speed for subject motion.

If your usage is anticipated to indoors, in low light circumstances, lots of moving subjects in marginal lighting circumstances, the Pany z models would probably not be the ideal digi. In these circumstances, probably a F30 or a dSLR would be the better way to go.

If your imaging is generally outdoors, in good lighting, the Pany z series are some of the best...

Most comments about high noise in Pany digis, especially the z series, are misleading since the 'noise' issues only come into play when used in circumstances beyond the designed strength of the z system.

I've had very few circumstances where I've had to increase the ISO on either my FZ5 or FZ30. Sure there is some noise but its usually when the lighting is not the best for the system design...
Here's an evening FZ5 handheld image shot at a semi-pro baseball game under so-so stadium lights...ISO400 (EXIF is embedded in image)
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/FZ5%20Images/P1080109Medium1.jpg

Same game at ISO200
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/FZ5%20Images/P1080087Medium.jpg

So, if you're primarily going to use the system outdoors, with a stabilized zoom, the Tizzie is a great system. Its capable of good images indoors w/flash as well. Look up John Reed's images with his Tizzie.

[jcon]

I agree with telecorder. One of your main points was high ISO, Panasonics arent very good there. The pictures posted in this thread show that, the baseball photos are really noisy and the bobblehead is pretty noise also, especially for a flash shot. If you plan on mostly indoor with higher ISO, look elsewhere. If your needs are well lit outdoor photos, Panasonic is the way to go.

[John_Reed]

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/104167635-L.jpg
(TZ1 at ISO 400, 1/50 second, 75' distance, full zoom)

[jcon]

John, before I comment on the picture, I hope you know that I completely respect you and the help you provide for people on this forum.

Onto the picture.... In my own opinion its an "ok" picture. Its got alot of motion blur and the only thing that is in decent focus is the performers face. With that said, you did very well with a 1/50 handheld photo, that can be very tricky. That TZ1 looks to handle noise a bit better than the FZ series cameras though but for someone that will mainly be shooting in higher ISO settings, I really dont think superzooms and point and shoots are the way to go. I am not tryin to start a war here, just giving my opinion on what ive seen, personally shot, and what others have reviewed.

Again, John, I hope you dont take my comments on that photo personal!

[John_Reed]

I can't figure out the new serenity of this forum? Hey Jason, that guy's hand was moving in 1/50 of a second. The point of the photo wasn't to prove that you could freeze motion at that slow shutter speed, just to show that indeed, a Panasonic camera could give a useable photograph in low light at a reasonably high ISO. Here's another one from the same series, of a woman blowing bubbles towards the stage, and again, there is movement in those bubbles, hence the streaks of stage lights reflected. This one was also shot at ISO 400, but I think only at about 60mm equivalent FL, 1/15:

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/104167692-L.jpg

Had I decided to show these photos "from the camera," I really wouldn't have had to do any NR on them at all. But, I like to bring out shadow details with Photoshop's "Shadow/Highlighting" tool, and when you do that, it brings up some noise from the former obscurity of the shadows. So I actually performed "Neat Image" on these photos before using the S/H tool, which loses minimal details and sustains image sharpness pretty well.

So again, I'll assert that the TZ1 is a particularly useful tool for this sort of thing. I was able to sneak it into the concert (where photos weren't really allowed) inside the pocket of my 501 Levis, and no one even noticed I had it. And, as you can see, it got some useable results.

[Telecorder]

Tim/John--

Awwww... we're all three saying the same thing here... if the OP is looking Primarily for a low light/high ISO digi, look elsewhere than the Pany FZ/TZ.

It's still unclear to me whether the OP is fully understanding of the high ISO usage issues and is concerned for their primary usage or is treading lightly because of the many non-Pany owner noise naysayer diatribes.

We know that they're quite capable in a lot of circumstances that some would have us believe they're not (thus my recommendation to look up your low light/high ISO images, John) but, for me, I'll grab my D50 for an indoors concert/low light scenario before I'll grab my FZ5/FZ30. (In either case, I don't think I'd be able to fit any of the 3 in my pant's pocket like the Tizzie...):rolleyes:

[jcon]

John, I really like that second picture, it really captures the feel of the moment! I agree, anytime you do shadow and highlights more noise is present.

[genece]

I think John made a great point, both those photos are as good as any P&S perhaps the F30 excluded.......but look at the zoom and the photos are nice.
Plenty good for what most do with a photo.
Heck and I do not even like that tizzy.

By the way you can get a F20 for 150 bucks at Dell.

[John_Reed]

John, I really like that second picture, it really captures the feel of the moment! I agree, anytime you do shadow and highlights more noise is present.Yeah, I liked that shot too. I like particularly the capture of the woman's profile and hair, even the little strands up in the air. Thanks for your comments.

[xophedebx]

Hi,


I have had an FZ1 for 2 years and an FZ5 for a couple of monthes. These are great cameras, but if you want to use high ISO settings (400 max for instance), the results were most of the time not that good.

More on http://users.belgacom.net/christophe.vlaminck/fz1.html

I have not tested the last Pana cameras, LX2, FZ50, and so on, but noise treatment is not the best thing Panasonic can do I think.

I sold my FZ5 also due to that ISO 100 limitation.

Xophe

[John_Reed]

Hi,


I have had an FZ1 for 2 years and an FZ5 for a couple of monthes. These are great cameras, but if you want to use high ISO settings (400 max for instance), the results were most of the time not that good.

More on http://users.belgacom.net/christophe.vlaminck/fz1.html

I have not tested the last Pana cameras, LX2, FZ50, and so on, but noise treatment is not the best thing Panasonic can do I think.

I sold my FZ5 also due to that ISO 100 limitation.

XopheBoth of those photos were shot at ISO 400. Just to add a little salt on the wound, here's another one, straight from the camera (my new FX50 in this case), of my cat, taken indoors at ISO 800, 1/125 of a second exposure:

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/113852946-L.jpg

Well, you say, that's easy, a downssampled photo won't show any noise anyway? Well, here's a 100% crop for you of a piece of that same image:

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/113852699-O-2.jpg

I see some luminance noise there, no chroma noise, and no red bleeding. Could easily be cleaned up with Neat Image, and probably would print OK "as is." Not so bad for a Panasonic camera way (3 f-stops) above ISO 100?