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dakota_dog
10-09-2006, 04:58 PM
I have purchased 2 different telephoto lens for my panasonic fz20. Using both I get a tunnel effect when I shoot anything less than 12x. I have changed the conversion to telephoto. The 2 different lens that I have tried are 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX DMC-FZ20 and a raynox DCR-2020PRO 2.2x telephoto lens. Does anyone know how to get rid of the tunnel effect. It looks like I'm looking down the end of a pipe.

Honest Gaza
10-09-2006, 05:50 PM
This effect is referred to as "vignetting" (I hope)....do a search on this site and you will find plenty of info.

Most teleconverter lenses will cause this....and depending on the size of the converter lens...the more of a problem it may be in "wider" shots.

tim11
10-09-2006, 06:33 PM
As you change the setting to CONVERSION - TELE ON, the focal length starts from 6x. Maybe your converters are longer than this starting point?

genece
10-10-2006, 04:47 AM
There are only some teleconverters that will work very well a FZ20 and the so called bargain lenses are not among them

Here are some lenses I use
A Tcon 14 or 14B vignette up to about 3X
Tcon17 up to about 7X
An Oly C210 up to 13X
A Raynox 2020 Pro up to 13X

here is a link to lense that will work on the FZ10 and 20
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/

Razr
10-10-2006, 10:23 AM
I have purchased 2 different telephoto lens for my panasonic fz20. Using both I get a tunnel effect when I shoot anything less than 12x. I have changed the conversion to telephoto. The 2 different lens that I have tried are 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX DMC-FZ20 and a raynox DCR-2020PRO 2.2x telephoto lens. Does anyone know how to get rid of the tunnel effect. It looks like I'm looking down the end of a pipe.
I changed over to the Pharee adapter and use a 55 to 62mm step up ring. I now get vignetting (tunnel) only up to about 7X, none beyond that.

Riley
10-10-2006, 10:54 AM
maybe a gander around this link would be useful to you

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/

Riley

LoveLife
10-10-2006, 12:45 PM
I changed over to the Pharee adapter and use a 55 to 62mm step up ring. I now get vignetting (tunnel) only up to about 7X, none beyond that.

Step rings degrade performance of these add-on adapters try the CRing system next time.

LoveLife
10-10-2006, 12:48 PM
I have purchased 2 different telephoto lens for my panasonic fz20. Using both I get a tunnel effect when I shoot anything less than 12x. I have changed the conversion to telephoto. The 2 different lens that I have tried are 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX DMC-FZ20 and a raynox DCR-2020PRO 2.2x telephoto lens. Does anyone know how to get rid of the tunnel effect. It looks like I'm looking down the end of a pipe.

Here are examples of the FZ 10 /20 with different including the Raynox 2020. Most add-on teles will not let you under zoom very far less then 12X the exception is the TCON14B.

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/gallery/543892

Riddick51
10-11-2006, 09:19 AM
i had the straight Tcon17 and had the experience you mention. the dmw-ltz10 allows for zoomed photos at all distances.

Riley
10-11-2006, 09:51 AM
just a note, there are adapters and converters
a converter allows a lens to zoom through
an adapter is meant for one focal length

Riley

genece
10-11-2006, 12:24 PM
After rereading your post you do not mention how you are mounting the teleconverters.......You can not use the panasonic adapter.....You need to use an aftermarket adapter like Lovelifes or the Raynox adapter. But the 3X lens will not work and the 2020 pro will vignette up to 12X. but not as bad as looking down a pipe.




I have purchased 2 different telephoto lens for my panasonic fz20. Using both I get a tunnel effect when I shoot anything less than 12x. I have changed the conversion to telephoto. The 2 different lens that I have tried are 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX DMC-FZ20 and a raynox DCR-2020PRO 2.2x telephoto lens. Does anyone know how to get rid of the tunnel effect. It looks like I'm looking down the end of a pipe.

Telecorder
10-11-2006, 12:42 PM
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/FZ-30/index.html

Don't try going over 1.7X as you'll lose too much aperture and a lot of image quality. 2X and larger are not worth the hit in IQ...

Better to consider upgrading to a FZ7, FZ30 or possibly FZ50 to get the added reach their EZ modes afford you and look at the top three 1.7X teleconverters Dr. Shene discusses...

Riley
10-11-2006, 01:15 PM
actually, not exceeding 1.7x is a good observation
just like going beyond .8x wide


Riley

Razr
10-14-2006, 11:13 AM
Step rings degrade performance of these add-on adapters try the CRing system next time.May be true. But isn't the CRing system, after all, an adapter? No matter, because the FZ20 has to use the CRing or Pharee or something else.
Actually, the Pharee adapter has two filter rings: the body adapter section has a 62mm filter ring, and the top screw section a 72mm filter ring.

Taking off the front/top ring and screwing in the T-CON w/62-55 step down ring actually puts the rear of the T-CON closer to the front of the Leica lens, reducing the gap so much my FZ20 stopped functioning (my first post here spoke to the problem), the gap between the two reduced to such tight tolerances there is NO degradation at all.
The serendipitous beauty of it being I get about 6.5-7X to 12X zoom factor, making the T-CON 1.7 much more useable and user friendly.

Riley
10-14-2006, 11:32 AM
LoveLife can and probably will talk for himself but
TCON is an Olympus tele and in the case mentioned on a panasonic camera
and, although not a problem of mine so, not well researched words here
the C ring was a double solution to resolve the soft focus spot in the centre
and reduce vignetting

as to the other
yeah i can accept that the Cring is an adapter, but arnt u then adapting a converter, bit of whos on first i guess
but afterall the separate terminolgy exists to identify the different systems as to zoomable or not
Riley

Razr
10-15-2006, 04:37 PM
LoveLife can and probably will talk for himself but
TCON is an Olympus tele and in the case mentioned on a panasonic camera
and, although not a problem of mine so, not well researched words here
the C ring was a double solution to resolve the soft focus spot in the centre
and reduce vignetting

as to the other
yeah i can accept that the Cring is an adapter, but arnt u then adapting a converter, bit of whos on first i guess
but afterall the separate terminolgy exists to identify the different systems as to zoomable or not
Riley
The converter, in this case T-CON 1.7, goes on the adapter(whichever brand/style). No confusion here as to terminology.
There is no "soft focus" ever with my T_CON, nor is there vignetting beyond 6.5X zoom when using the 55-62 stepup ring on the 62mm Pharee adapter section.

Riley
10-15-2006, 06:34 PM
TCON means tele converter, Tele CONverter.....yes?
oh dear


Riley

genece
10-16-2006, 05:46 AM
Tcon is actually a trade name Olympus used to describe some of its lens..but anymore I would say that most people refer to any teleconverter as a Tcon .
Tcon17....tcon14B...ect.

and as to using step rings Lovelife is correct, his C ring adapter places the Tcon17 closer to the FZ20 lens than any other adapter I have tried and I think I have tried them all......and you may be happy with the result using the Phayee adapter and that is fine, but you will get a better result with Lovelifes Cring adapter or the Raynox adapter ,a step up ring (52 to 55) is thinner than a stepdown ring (62 to 55)that you must use with the Phayee adapter ....but Lovelifes was the best I used.
It may not be worth the price to consider changing adapters but if I was needing my first one I would seriously consider the Cring adapter and it is versitile to use with most all lenses.

Riley
10-16-2006, 07:47 AM
my goodness me
all this stuff over definitions when everyone is saying the same thing.
well at least theres agreement i suppose
Riley

LoveLife
10-16-2006, 08:00 AM
my goodness me
all this stuff over definitions when everyone is saying the same thing.

Riley

Some people are fussy over terms I am fussy over TCON17 results.

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/31675658-L.jpg
FZ10 with CRing adapter 62-55mm CRing TCON17 at 6.1X

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/31675660-L.jpg

FZ10 with CRing adapter 62-55mm CRing TCON17 at 7.3X

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/31675662-L.jpg

FZ10 with CRing adapter 62-55mm CRing TCON17 at 8.7X

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/31675669-L.jpg


FZ10 with CRing adapter 62-55mm CRing TCON17 at 12X

Riley
10-16-2006, 08:40 AM
just a note, there are adapters and converters
a converter allows a lens to zoom through
an adapter is meant for one focal length

Riley

ok
lets be clear on what what said, then we can be done with this
at the time i wrote it, it still wasnt clear what was going on for dakota
while you are discussing adapters to take lenses
my reference at the time was to adapters that are lenses. for example, just what is the 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX dakota mentions?

for those that need to read on
they are lenses added to the front of the barrel that are smaller than converters and are only meant for one focal length. hence even an adapter lens can need an adapter to connect it to the front of the barrel.

converters on the other hand allow the lens to zoom through in the normal way, some further than others
we all happy now?

Riley

jcon
10-16-2006, 09:41 AM
LoveLife, While I do not dissagree with the results of your images and the C-Ring, all you posted were pictures using a C-Ring, wouldnt it be fair to post side-by-side comparative shots using both products(C-Ring and Phayee)?

On a personal note, I never got any soft or vignetted images using the TCON14B and the Phayee on the FZ20

genece
10-16-2006, 12:51 PM
While I have no way to accurately measure the Phayee and Lovelifes adapter ...neither of them need a step ring with the 14B so the results should be very similar....but when you use a stepdown ring on the Phayee, to use the Tcon17 ,you are moving it farther from the camera which the Tcon17 is pretty touchy about. You do not need to use a stepdown ring with Lovelifes, you use the Cring as he calls it and it adds no distance to the setup.
It really was a slick setup....too bad panasonic changed things ,well its not too bad for me but it was for lovelife.
If I could just sell all the Adapters I have ,I would be OK....Phayees , Yoshidas, Raynox and Cring.

Razr
10-16-2006, 11:30 PM
ok
lets be clear on what what said, then we can be done with this
at the time i wrote it, it still wasnt clear what was going on for dakota
while you are discussing adapters to take lenses
my reference at the time was to adapters that are lenses. for example, just what is the 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX dakota mentions?All "converters", be they WA (wide angle) or TELE, are lenses.
for those that need to read on
they are lenses added to the front of the barrelThey ("converters") are lenses: period.
...that are smaller than converters"converters" are lenses.
...and are only meant for one focal length.??? Name one such. And "adapters" don't have glass/plastic, thus cannot be "lenses".
...hence even an adapter lens"Adapters" are metal devices (by whatever brand name) that screw onto cameras, their sole purpose being to hold filters, step rings or converters.
They have no glass, thus are not "lenses".
...can need an adapter to connect it to the front of the barrel.
"Adapters": = 1 or 2 piece round metal or plastic objects that screw onto cameras.
Lenses: objects with metal or plastic barrels that also have glass or plastic.
[p]...converters on the other hand allow the lens to zoom through in the normal way, some further than others.
All "Converters" are lenses.

we all happy now?Not until you realize ADAPTERS do not/cannot do anything other than hold converters (lenses).

LoveLife
10-17-2006, 12:00 AM
LoveLife, While I do not dissagree with the results of your images and the C-Ring, all you posted were pictures using a C-Ring, wouldnt it be fair to post side-by-side comparative shots using both products(C-Ring and Phayee)?

On a personal note, I never got any soft or vignetted images using the TCON14B and the Phayee on the FZ20

I have never seen Phayee post any images with their product. I do not know what kind of results you get with the Phayee and a TCON14B but the CRing adapter with the TCON14B allows you to shoot from 4X

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/22520358-L.jpg

To 12X

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/22520366-L.jpg

If you can produce similar results then the Phayee with 62mm accessories is as good as mine. But use an accessory using other then 62mm and I will leave you in the dust.

jcon
10-17-2006, 10:57 AM
You wont leave me "in the dust" because I dont have the FZ20, TCON14B or the Phayee adapter anymore.

I wasnt knocking your product at all. I was simply stating that it would be more fair if you did a comparison of both adapters. Not to mention more imformative for new members. If you look on this site, when people compare lenses, they show side by sides, to be fair and unbias to both parties.

Again, I think you have a good product, if I were buying the FZ20 all over again, I probably would buy yours.

Riley
10-17-2006, 09:33 PM
All "converters", be they WA (wide angle) or TELE, are lenses.They ("converters") are lenses: period."converters" are lenses.??? Name one such. And "adapters" don't have glass/plastic, thus cannot be "lenses"."Adapters" are metal devices (by whatever brand name) that screw onto cameras, their sole purpose being to hold filters, step rings or converters.
They have no glass, thus are not "lenses".
"Adapters": = 1 or 2 piece round metal or plastic objects that screw onto cameras.
Lenses: objects with metal or plastic barrels that also have glass or plastic.
All "Converters" are lenses.Not until you realize ADAPTERS do not/cannot do anything other than hold converters (lenses).

hmmm, well now
more common in video these days for 2 reasons, the proliferation of zoom lenses on digi cams, and the additional costs incurred for the generally larger video lenses requiring a more budget concious approach

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=2270

A Wide Angle fixed focal adapter is used with the lens set to it's widest position. The lens cannot be zoomed or vignetting may occur. A zoom through converter allows the lens to be zoomed and no vignetting will occur.

oh, show you one ?
and here is the Panasonic Wide Adapter, with glass lens, and stencilled WIDE ADAPTER. too easy...

http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=11113&cat=354&page=1

tim11
10-17-2006, 09:39 PM
hmm........ that looks like a filter to me.... :D

Riley
10-17-2006, 09:53 PM
a .6x filter costing US$389...lol
now now Tim :)

Riley

Razr
10-18-2006, 06:35 AM
(SNIP)
A Wide Angle fixed focal adapter is used with the lens set to it's widest position. The lens cannot be zoomed or vignetting may occur. A zoom through converter allows the lens to be zoomed and no vignetting will occur.[p]That is not only outright plagiarism, but also a disingenuous argument: I see where you got your “original” argument; from their webpage.
oh, show you one ?
and here is the Panasonic Wide Adapter, with glass lens, and stencilled (sic) WIDE ADAPTER. too easy...
Nah, that's a lens by any stretch of the imagination, no matter what Panasonic chooses to call it.

The (OP) was not talking about cine equipment (though your allusion disingenuously does).
This was about adapters (e.g. Phayee, CRing, Pemraal? and the like), (all known as “adapters” by {99.9999%} of the people using adapters for digicams).
The second part was about converters; that is: lenses that screw onto the above named adapters.

Riley
10-18-2006, 06:59 AM
The 2 different lens that I have tried are 3X TELE+ WA LENS FOR PANASONIC LUMIX DMC-FZ20 and a raynox DCR-2020PRO 2.2x telephoto lens. Does anyone know how to get rid of the tunnel effect. It looks like I'm looking down the end of a pipe.

well at the time Razr i couldnt identify the lens bolded in above
so the 'interjection' i made, that you for your own purposes choose to pursue to the n'th, was entirely consistent (at the thread shown "The lens cannot be zoomed or vignetting may occur"). because clearly the optical nomenclature transfers between video and digicams, much of it being derived from roll film cameras anyway. twin lens rollieflex anyone ?

you asked me to show you an adapter lens, and there you have it, for it says engraved upon it .6x WIDE ADAPTER, case proven


now i could show you more from other manufacturers who use the same description process, sony come to mind quickly. but dont expect any more replies from me in this thread because i rightly refuse to engage in a crap fight over trivial nonsense. case closed

Riley