Nikon D80 or Canon Rebel XTI

[mjhulik]

Hello
I'm new to this forum and I would like to ask a few questions? I'm looking at the Nikon D80 and the Canon Rebel XTi and I can't really make up my mind. I'm looking to get into the DSLR market. I've just wanted a little more out of my photos than a point and shoot and provide example action photos. I don't have any lenses for either brands so like I said I'm starting in the DSLR market. Any thoughts and concerns would be appreciated.

thanks to all

[krzkrzkrz]

Greetings mj,

I too had to do quite a bit of reading before affirming a sound decision on which DSLR to get.

Here are my 2 cents worth of information. Some say that the noise levels on either camera Nikon D80 and Canon Rebel XTi 400D have a significant difference in noise levels.

Honestly, I think this is bullish! Both camera's perform at a brilliant level. It really comes down to lenses. Some will even mention that the grip on both cameras are different. When I first started to get into DSLR's, I REALLY thought that this would be an issue. Obviously, because I was still naive at the information that was thrown at me. Don't let the small aspects such as grip, noise level, lens selection, get to you. Some of the information you will read about can be misleading.

Let me repeat. BOTH cameras are great!!

I own a Canon Rebel XTi 400D, I bought this camera for the following purpose and simple reason:
a) I like its 'smaller size' in the DSLR range
b) I like to take photos
c) I like to be creative
d) Theres a Canon store in every store around the block (this goes for Nikon)
e) Canon has a huge lens collection to invest in, not to say that I am going to do that anytime soon. (this goes for Nikon)
f) The XTi was cheaper than the D80, but only by a $100 USD or so, if I'm not mistaken

Get one or the either and have fun. This should be your only reason.

Hope this helps,
Krz

[mjhulik]

thanks for the input.

mjhulik

[RichNY]

Neither. The Nikon D80 sells for $999 (body only). The Canon 30D sells for
$1169 (body only) at BH photo. Starting on the 15th there will be a $200 rebate on the 30D which will lower its cost to $969 and it is a much better camera than the Nikon D80.

You will also be eligible for 2x the rebate on the lenses that you purchase with a 30D which amounts to another $60-$100 savings/lens.

[mjhulik]

Rich so you think the 30d is better than both the Nikon D80 and the Rebel XTi? Why? Doesn't the 30D just have a 8MP to the other two camera's 10.2mp?

[krzkrzkrz]

Mj,

In addition, I could have gone with a better camera body such as the Canon 30D. I stuck with the Canon Rebel XTi 400D, because it was in the entry-level. Meaning, DSLR's for beginners-intermediate, not to say that professionals don't use it. Remember, it all comes down to lenses, and ofcourse, after experience.

Before I chose the Canon Rebel XTi 400D, I also considered other entry-level DSLR's, such as the Sony A100, Pentax K100D, Nikon D70s. I didnt really fancy the Oly's. Just a personal preference :) .

I thought, that I would like to start in the beginning stage. The Canon 30D, can be looked at more on the intermediate-professional stage. You would also most likely pay $200 USD more for the camera. However and in all fairness, if you have the extra money to spend, then go for it.

My advice, would be to start small, save up and invest on lenses. When the right time comes, hopefully after mastering your photography skills after a few months / years, then thats when you think about a body upgrade. I wouldn't spend on an expensive body just yet and save for getting better lenses.

People will recommend for you, especially on these forums and others, to get a better camera body. The Canon Rebel XTi 400D and Nikon D80 are GOOD enough. Don't be mislead. :)

[mjhulik]

Yes, I think you are right I will do what you are advising. Spend the money on Lenses. What do you think of the Nikon D50 would that do or should I stick with something with a like more megapixels?

[krzkrzkrz]

Yes, I think you are right I will do what you are advising. Spend the money on Lenses. What do you think of the Nikon D50 would that do or should I stick with something with a like more megapixels?

The Nikon D50 is a wonderful body. However, DSLRS today are at 8MP and above. But remember that MP is just a feature like all the other features. My approach was to get something upbeat in the market, that had some, if not all, the latest features. Thats the reason why I didn't like the D50 so much. If you decide to spend on the D50, you might miss out on some of todays features that you normally get on DSLR's. However, its not such a big step away / difference.

The benefit though, if you manage to get the Nikon D50 at $650 USD or lower, is you will have more money to spend on lenses.

[mjhulik]

Thats would I thought about the D50 about some of the features. I will probably get the xti or th D80, but I'm leaning towards the xti. Which company in your opinion make a better lens Nikon or Canon?

[RichNY]

Every one of the cameras mentioned from the D50 to the Canon 30D is capable of taking good pictures. That said....

1. You will not notice any difference in picture quality going between an 8mp and 10mp camera.

2. You will definately notice a difference between the Canon30D/400D and the D80 when it comes to noise. The Canon's CMOS has a much lower noise at high ISO which will become important to you in low light situations.

3. With the rebates, the Canon 30D is less expensive than the Nikon D80. This makes chosing the Canon in this situation a no-brainer: its cheaper, has lower noise, better build quality, shoots 5fps v. 3fps...

4. Had it not been for the fall rebates being offered on the 30D I'd agree that the 400D would probably be your best choice. However, now with the 400D body selling for $799 and the 30D at $969 the difference is only $170.

For your $170 you are getting a much better build quality, 5fps, and Spot Metering. Well Well worth the extra $170. Go to a store and hold both of them in your hands- you will immediately notice a major difference. The 400D is smaller and many people find it uncomfortable to hold in comparison- those with small hands may prefer its smaller size on the other hand.

It's also really not $170 more to buy the 30D- Because of the fall rebate people who buy a 30D will get 2x the rebate on their lens purchases. This could amount to anywhere from $50 to $100 extra savings when you buy the 30D so the price difference gets really small.

Canon and Nikon both have a great line of lenses and each has particular lenses better than the other but they are equal when comparing their overall product line.

[krzkrzkrz]

Thats would I thought about the D50 about some of the features. I will probably get the xti or th D80, but I'm leaning towards the xti. Which company in your opinion make a better lens Nikon or Canon?

As RichNY has mentioned, they both have an amazing range of lens supply. :)

[swgod98]

People will recommend for you, especially on these forums and others, to get a better camera body.

Actually, most people that I've heard from have recommended buying the most basic body that your'e happy with. They only last a few years before they become outdated. If you're into photography, then you'll be wanting a new model with the new/better features. If you aren't, then you'll likely still be happy with the camera you have.

With that said...I think the XTi is a great camera, especially if you like it's size, which many people criticize. It's really personal preference. But, the 30D is on the other end of the spectrum. It's big and heavy in comparison.

A lot of people complain about the XTi's build quality, but it's not like it's going to fall apart on you (at least I don't think so). The 30D is probably the most rugged, but I don't see that as a benefit since it still doesn't have weather sealing.

The D80 is a great camera too and has some features that beat even the 30D, and many other features the 30D doesn't even have.

ISO performance is headed by the 30D, XTi, then D80. But, don't let people convince you there is a huge difference. The difference is close enough that many people mistake the XTi images for the D80 and vice versa when comparing them side by side.

One of the biggest drawbacks (IMO) regarding the XTi is it's small viewfinder. The 30D and even more so, the D80 have much larger and brighter viewfinders. Some people don't care (because it doesn't affect image quality), but it does make a difference (most notably when composing in the dark and/or during manual focus).

I've heard Canon has better pro grade glass, but Nikon has better entry level glass. Canon has a larger selection of long range glass...again, this is just what I've heard (over and over, mind you).

I would not begrudge anyone of the XTi or the 30D. But, when I made my decision 2 months ago, it was a decision to go with the best all around camera I could find. And I'm confident I made the right decision for me in the D80.

[coldrain]

Nikon does not have better entry level glass, and Nikon also has some very nice pro lenses (like the 28-70 f2.8). You can not make such blanket statements about the lens ranges.

Just to illustrate, some Canon lenses that are hard to beat that are not "pro":
Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 macro USM
Canon EF-S 10-22 f3.5-4.5 USM
Canon EF 28-105 f3.5-4.5 USM II
Canon EF 28mm f2.8
Canon EF 24mm
Canon EF 20mm
Canon EF 50mm f1.4
Canon EF 70-300 IS USM
Canon EF 100mm f2.8 macro
Canon EF 85mm f1.8

Well I guess the list is long enough already to prove a point.

Often you hear that Nikon has better wide angle lenses too, but that is also not true. Both have some real gems in their lineup, it just takes some research to find.

[unix04]

mjhulik, i've been looking into dslr's for the past month now, trying to make the best decision out of my purchase, but myself being a beginner, i know that i'll likely not be able to learn all the ins and outs of a dslr in a short amount of time. experience would make me a great photographer someday, but for the time being, i probably wont be able to make the most of what the body like the 30d is capable of.

i also wouldnt know how to properly take care of it, and potentially spend more money in repairs/maintenance for my own mistakes. and on top of that, i'd be using up a lot of shutters for the sake of training. i'd personally prefer to shoot with a nice body after my success rate of a useable shot increases.

that said, if you're intent on using your camera often and realy invest a lot of time into photography, the 30d will likely turn out to be a great buy. but if you're on somewhat of a budget (like me) and have no prior slr experience (also like me), and plan to do this as a casual hobby, it might not be a bad idea to start at the bottom with the d50 or the xt...or perhaps even a used one, which you can find at POTN or BH at good quality/prices.

also, dslr bodies are improving and new models are coming out very quickly. by the time you've trained yourself to be a good photographer, the next generation (or 2 or maybe even 3) of cameras will likely have been out, and you can purchase a much nicer body when the time comes.

with the money you save now, you can get yourself a fast third-party lens for your action photos. or if you're willing, pay the extra premium for a canon/nikon lens. and as many people here will tell you, good glass will last you, but bodies wont.

of course...if money isnt an issue and you've got extra money to play with, all of this wont matter as much. my budget's around $1500, but if i am to spend that much, i want to get $1500 worth, which is part equipment and part my own ability to maximize it's potential.

some people here may disagree with this approach. as im sure if you take my path, you might reach your potential pretty quickly and soon be limited by the 'budget' options you've taken. but i know for myself the type of shots i'm gonna take, and im pretty sure given the right lens, almost any entry level slr will do. it's just a matter of choosing the 'right' manufacturer.

on a final note, from viewing all the selections of lenses, both nikon and canon cover all the common ranges and also offer a good selection. canon, however, seems to have multiple variations of similar ranges, and therefore more selection. i cannot tell you much in terms of image quality, because to my untrained eye, they all look rather good.

good luck on your dslr purchase. i didnt mean to throw a monkey wrench in your plans (in case you might have felt that way.)

ps. RichNY, for the $200 rebate to apply, dont you also need to buy another qualifying product? most likely one of canon's expensive lenses? though you save money, i'm wondering if the starting cost of investment can still be a bit high for entry level.

[henryc32]

Hello. This is my first post on this form, but I have been reading it for quite some time. Just went thru the process of deciding between the XTI, D80 and the 30D. First, I would suggest that, as I did, you play with all 3 cameras. You need to find the one that is best suited for you.

Since I was new to all 3 cameras, I approached them with an open mind. The D80 and 30D are similar to each other, but quite different from the XTI which is much smaller and lighter - in addition it appeared, at least to me, a camera more designed for someone who mainly wishes to point-and-shoot with full manual options (both the D80 and 30D appeared more geared to the serious photographer with a point-and-shoot option).

All 3 cameras will take great pictures, and you will be more limited by the lens than the camera in picture quality. You need to choose the one that fits your style. A small note that might help if you buy the kits. I found the 18-135 lens on the D80 (at least the sample that I tried) better than the 18-55 on the XTI and the 30D.

As for my choice, I bought the 30D for many of the reasons that Rich sited above, and two others - 1) I live in the New York City area, and Nikon has a bad reputation for service in this area and 2) I already had 2 lenses from my Canon Elan that I could use on the 30D.

While I was trying the cameras I spoke with another customer making a similar decision who picked the XTI. The primary reason for his choice was that he wanted the lightest possible good DSLR for travel.

Hope these comments help.

[drew_viii]

welcome mj!

anyways... i havent really finished reading this thread, but i want to mention that xti has the anti-dust feature which is very suitable for beginners, dust can be a problem for amateurs like me, im having some dust on my 30D, and it kinda bothers me a lot, so i have to send it back to canon to remap and do the sensor cleaning under warranty here in london.

another thing that matter is the built and handling of both cameras, there is a lot of people sayiing that D80 has a better grip than the xti, but some others also say that it doesnt really bother them and they like it the way it is. it comes to your personal perspective. so go to the shops and try the handling first before you decide as well.

when it comes to lens, both are equally good for me. But, i can see that there are more canon lens out there in the market compare to nikon, especially second hand ones and amateurs level lenses. so think carefully and maybe do some research on the market around your area as well.

I hope this helps

[RichNY]

'The 30D is probably the most rugged, but I don't see that as a benefit since it still doesn't have weather sealing.'
-The magnesium body helps when your camera gets banged or should fall, etc. Accidents can happen in the best weather.

'ISO performance is headed by the 30D, XTi, then D80. But, don't let people convince you there is a huge difference.'
- Between the 30D/XTi and D80 there is a huge difference at high ISO. Take a look at photos and see for yourself.

One of the biggest drawbacks (IMO) regarding the XTi is it's small viewfinder.
- Yes, the viewfinder is larger on the other cameras.

I've heard Canon has better pro grade glass, but Nikon has better entry level glass.
- Coldrain is right

And I'm confident I made the right decision for me in the D80.
-There was also a few hundred dollar price difference between the D80 and 30D back then. The D80 is a great camera though.

'but for the time being, i probably wont be able to make the most of what the body like the 30d is capable of.
- The difference between the XTi and 30D isn't a bunch of advanced buttons and functions that you'll need to learn how to use. You'll be using the viewfinder, build quality, and spot metering every time you take a picture.

'i also wouldnt know how to properly take care of it, and potentially spend more money in repairs/maintenance for my own mistakes. and on top of that, i'd be using up a lot of shutters for the sake of training'
-You take care of these cameras the same way. You're less likely to have repair/maintenance bills if you bang around a metal body than a plastic body. If you are concerned about using up the shutter life- the 30D has a 100k shutter life so shoot away! And you won't be training any longer on any one of the three choices we've been discussing.

-Nothing wrong with a used body to save some money if necessary. But if
we are back to the three choices, as of 10/15 pricing the 30D is still the way to go.

'RichNY, for the $200 rebate to apply, dont you also need to buy another qualifying product? most likely one of canon's expensive lenses? '
- Yes you need a lens (you need one anyway) or even a flash- but it doesn't have to be an expensive lens. Here is the list http://www.author-works.com/media/media-19837.pdf

'I spoke with another customer making a similar decision who picked the XTI. The primary reason for his choice was that he wanted the lightest possible good DSLR for travel.' That is something the XTi definately has in its favor- you either love its small size or you hate it. For my size hands I'd much prefer the D80 or 30D.

'so i have to send it back to canon to remap and do the sensor cleaning under warranty here in london.'
Drew, are you sending it back because of a problem or that you just didn't want to clean the sensor yourself?

[swgod98]

- Between the 30D/XTi and D80 there is a huge difference at high ISO. Take a look at photos and see for yourself.

I have. There is little difference between the XTi and D80. Even the reputable sites reviewing the cameras claim the same. I do not understand why you keep claiming a huge difference.


- In my humble opinion - as of 10/15 pricing the 30D is still the way to go.

That's better...

[KFrog]

Hello
I'm new to this forum and I would like to ask a few questions? I'm looking at the Nikon D80 and the Canon Rebel XTi and I can't really make up my mind. I'm looking to get into the DSLR market. I've just wanted a little more out of my photos than a point and shoot and provide example action photos. I don't have any lenses for either brands so like I said I'm starting in the DSLR market. Any thoughts and concerns would be appreciated.

thanks to all

Hello MJ,

I'm kind of new to this forum as well and I'm also looking at dSLR's for the first time. Both the D80 and the Xti are excellent cameras as many have mentioned. I believe either one will give you years of satisfaction. Both Canon and Nikon also have excellent lenses so you're good there too.

One brand you might want to consider though is Pentax. If like many have said "it's all about the glass", then it is my understanding that Pentax makes excellent lenses as well. They also have older lenses that can still be used with their newest camera bodies. Are they of the professional quality of Nikon and Canon? I don't know, I'll leave that one to the experts.

As for their cameras I'm considering the K100D (6.1mp) and the new K10D (10.2mp). Both have SR (shake reduction) built into the the camera, unlike any of the mentioned Nikons and Canons. They put IS (image stabilisation)/VR (vibration reduction) in certain lenses, and at a price premium. Shake reduction is important in low light situations and long distance shooting without a tripod.

I have not made up my mind on what to get yet at this point. Maybe Pentax dosen't hold a candle to Nikon and Canon but hey, we are beginners and with plenty inexpensive lenses available new one on the way, SR and a camera with a dust removal system and weather resitant body (K10D), Pentax sounds like a pretty good deal to me. :)

[drew_viii]

to RichNY

i have to send it back because i also found out some dead pixels at higher ISOs and longer shutter speed. under canon warranty, this should be fixed by remapping under warranty here in europe. And i also ask the service center if they could do the sencor cleaning, and they said they will. Im kinda afraid to touch the sensor, since its an expensive and delicate equipment, and i also dont know which sensor cleaning package or brand should i get as well...

[RichNY]

Drew-Though there had to be more to sending your camera back than dust but its good that you'll be getting it back all clean.

[coldrain]

Hello MJ,

I'm kind of new to this forum as well and I'm also looking at dSLR's for the first time. Both the D80 and the Xti are excellent cameras as many have mentioned. I believe either one will give you years of satisfaction. Both Canon and Nikon also have excellent lenses so you're good there too.

One brand you might want to consider though is Pentax. If like many have said "it's all about the glass", then it is my understanding that Pentax makes excellent lenses as well. They also have older lenses that can still be used with their newest camera bodies. Are they of the professional quality of Nikon and Canon? I don't know, I'll leave that one to the experts.

As for their cameras I'm considering the K100D (6.1mp) and the new K10D (10.2mp). Both have SR (shake reduction) built into the the camera, unlike any of the mentioned Nikons and Canons. They put IS (image stabilisation)/VR (vibration reduction) in certain lenses, and at a price premium. Shake reduction is important in low light situations and long distance shooting without a tripod.

I have not made up my mind on what to get yet at this point. Maybe Pentax dosen't hold a candle to Nikon and Canon but hey, we are beginners and with plenty inexpensive lenses available new one on the way, SR and a camera with a dust removal system and weather resitant body (K10D), Pentax sounds like a pretty good deal to me. :)
No, older lenses are not of the "professional quality" of Nikon and Canon, since they do not have auto focus. If you enjoy using manula focus, that is ok then... but on an APS-C body taht is not alwaye easy.

And about the weather sealing: you dont have any use for it since there are not yet any weather sealed lenses for Pentax. You have to wait at least until March 2007.

About the IS, you don't have much use of IS either with the old lenses, since when it is too dark and you have use for the IS with shorter focal range lenses, it is too dark to judge manual focus. And your older lenses will not have the telerange where IS in full daylight has use, since old lenses usually just are not so tele, bigger tele lenses are something quite "modern".

So, the virtues of the K10D are nice, but are also mutual exclusive in ways. And keep in mind that the new lenses being introduced in March are not compatible with older Pentax DSLRs... new motor and AF system, for the K10D.

[mjhulik]

All of this information helps and I thank all, I'm probably leaning towards the D80 or the 30D

[KFrog]

No, older lenses are not of the "professional quality" of Nikon and Canon, since they do not have auto focus. If you enjoy using manula focus, that is ok then... but on an APS-C body taht is not alwaye easy.

Don't their current lenses have auto-focus? If so that is what I would have to get and not get any older lenses.


And about the weather sealing: you dont have any use for it since there are not yet any weather sealed lenses for Pentax. You have to wait at least until March 2007.

Yeah, and they will probably be expensive too but they're supposed to be higher quality.


About the IS, you don't have much use of IS either with the old lenses, since when it is too dark and you have use for the IS with shorter focal range lenses, it is too dark to judge manual focus. And your older lenses will not have the telerange where IS in full daylight has use, since old lenses usually just are not so tele, bigger tele lenses are something quite "modern".

So, the virtues of the K10D are nice, but are also mutual exclusive in ways. And keep in mind that the new lenses being introduced in March are not compatible with older Pentax DSLRs... new motor and AF system, for the K10D.

I understand these new lenses will be compatable with the "new" K series cameras, i.e. the K100D, K110D, K10D and future(?) K1D and will be able to use all their new features. The best deal for me as far as Pentax goes would be the K100D and a couple of solid lenses maybe the basic 18-55mm and the 50-200mm.

Thanks for your insight. :)

[KFrog]

All of this information helps and I thank all, I'm probably leaning towards the D80 or the 30D

OK, so you've kicked the XTI out and now it's the 30D vs the D80.

What kind of photography are you looking at getting into?

After looking at some of the comments it would seem that Canon has a larger number of lenses so there are more to choose from. Also that 5 FPS is pretty hard to beat especially if you're looking a sports photography I would think.

Nikon's are just nice IMO, their build quality and feel are just the best.

It's a tough decision. :confused:

[RichNY]

At the beginning of August I was 99% positive I'd be buying the D80 when it came out. After spending way too much time researching it I came to the realization that the 30D at the rebate prices is a much better way to go and I'll be getting my 30D at the same time.

Nikon's got so much good glass that I wouldn't say that the number of lenses Canon has is really a factor in my decision though.

5fps- yes
Metal v. Plastic body- Yes
Lower Noise at high ISOs- Yes
Getting a $1399 camera for $939 v. a $999 camera for $999- Yes

Yes, the Nikons are nice, and while the D80 is very comfortable to hold and shoot with, the 30D has more a substantial feel much like the Nikon D200.

[KFrog]

5fps- yes
Metal v. Plastic body- Yes
Lower Noise at high ISOs- Yes
Getting a $1399 camera for $939 v. a $999 camera for $999- Yes



Hard to argue with that. That's a pretty good deal.

[gmtech79]

I was in the same boat as you not long ago before I bought my D80. The reason why I bought my d80 over the xti was that it felt better in my hands, and I like the two command dials, among a few other things. After doing countless hours of research and hearing way too many people say nikon is better than canon and vice versa, I threw all the opinions out the window and just got the one I liked better. I find that if you spend too much time pouring over reviews and the such you will end up worse off, so just buy what YOU want they are both good camera's whether you get the 30D now or the D80. just my 2 cents.

[drew_viii]

I was in the same boat as you not long ago before I bought my D80. The reason why I bought my d80 over the xti was that it felt better in my hands, and I like the two command dials, among a few other things. After doing countless hours of research and hearing way too many people say nikon is better than canon and vice versa, I threw all the opinions out the window and just got the one I liked better. I find that if you spend too much time pouring over reviews and the such you will end up worse off, so just buy what YOU want they are both good camera's whether you get the 30D now or the D80. just my 2 cents.

good point... i had the same dilemma like 6 months ago before i bought the 30D, previously i bought nikon D50, it felt good, bu after ive tried some shots with my school's studio which they have canon eos 20D camera... and eventually after a week of having D50, i sold it and decided to go for canon... at first, i was suppose to get the xt, but i was tempted by the salesman who is encouraging me to get 30D... which i did. and eventually, it felt better than the 20D, with larger LCD and etc... and 30D makes me stand out among other tourists photographers on the streets, gets its the professional look on it? :D i dont know, i just felt that way... you will love the camera if you really like it from the beginning rather than basing your decision on reviews and people's opinion...

[christopher]

I am also new to this forum, and presently ready to upgrade to a DSLR.

30D rebate sounds like a great deal, especially when adding two lenses.
Does anyone know if these rebates are available in Canada, and where ?

[jeisner]

Does older necessarily mean manual focus? I guess I will stick with that assumption?


If you enjoy using manula focus, that is ok then... but on an APS-C body taht is not alwaye easy.

The K10d viewfinder is at the LARGE end of the spectrum for APS-C DSLRs, it is quite good to use even in darker (indoor flouro lit) environments..


And about the weather sealing: you dont have any use for it since there are not yet any weather sealed lenses for Pentax. You have to wait at least until March 2007.

Yeah for me it is a non-issue, none of my current lenses (mainly primes) are weather sealed, so it doesn't matter to me.. though I guess the body is 'future proof' to some degree as it will be ready for the new lenses next March...


About the IS, you don't have much use of IS either with the old lenses, since when it is too dark and you have use for the IS with shorter focal range lenses, it is too dark to judge manual focus.

See my earlier viewfinder comments, the viewfinder is not like the one in the 350d/400d/d70/DL or K100d.. It is very usable imho, even in situations where IS would help...


And keep in mind that the new lenses being introduced in March are not compatible with older Pentax DSLRs... new motor and AF system, for the K10D.

Thats disappointing, but it had to be done, at least all the older and current lenses still work with the K10d, replacing my glass would cost me much more than a new body...

[yogs]

I was trying to answer a similar question earlier this year when I was trying to decide between Nikon D70 and Canon Rebet Xt. My conclusion was both are great cameras. Eventually I went for Canon because I have used Canon in the past and I am more comfortable with the brand and controls. I am extremely happy with the Digital Rebel Xt whether I am shooting in manual or automatic mode. Not a single bad picture can be attributed to the camera.

D80 and Digital Rebel Xti are the next generation products of two excellent cameras, and I dont see a reason why either should be bad. You may want to go to store and hold the two cameras and see which one you are comfortable with (price-wise as well - also factor in the cost of the accessories/lenses you may want to buy. Canon offers excellent lenses in all price ranges).

[unix04]

at the moment, i think nikon makes overall better entry level options in the d50/70/80. granted the rebate for the canon 30D allows some budget breathing room, the xt/xti will be one camera people will look for when on a tighter budget. and ultimately, i think the size/shape of the xt/xti really makes people think twice about purchasing one. aside from the magnesium body, the command dial and all the other features, you'd want a camera that's comfortable to hold/use, and the entry level nikon's do a better job at that. image quality is good enough to hold it's own as well. this is not to say canon's dont make great entry level cameras, but just by feel alone, nikon provides a great advantage to start with an entry-level dslr with great user experience.

given a tight budget, the d50 w/ kit lens might be the ultimate budget starter kit.

just my most recent thoughts...

as a side note, i got myself the xti, but have yet to open the box. i got the xti with kit lens for a great buy at $810, but im waiting on the availability of the 30d w/ kit lens for $1169 (pre-rebate). if i can pull this off, i might just go for the 30D and return the xti. i'll make the final decision when rebate time comes.

[murrays]

Regarding noise levels between Canon & Nikon, I like this comparison done by Ken Rockwell: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/dslr-comparison/index.htm


ran this test because newer photographers have been asking me for years worrying about the noise performance of Canon vs. Nikon and CMOS vs. CCD sensors.

Excuse me, but do you see anything significantly different among the DSLRs? The only thing I see is more aliasing with the Canons, but the same noise. I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who start these old-wives' tales start them from what they read in a press release from a camera maker, or an article written by someone who finds it easier to repeat the press release instead of running his own tests.

Basically, a bit less noise with the Canon's, but more detail with the Nikon's (both adjustable, of course).

Go with what you like best and ignore any strong opinions one way or another.

-murray

[swgod98]

Regarding noise levels between Canon & Nikon, I like this comparison done by Ken Rockwell:

It's a good thing coldrain isn't around to say something about this! lol:D

Personally, I agree with Ken's intentions...but, I don't agree with his conclusion. I am often cropping my images for print and using bits and pieces for graphic design. Every detail counts. And for those who are hyper sensitive to details, Canon does have the edge (though I think it is a very small edge).

But, this is also why I am not rushing out and buying a Canon...there is so much more to a camera than having a little better high ISO performance. It is really important to consider everything involved in a camera body, as well as the "system", as people put it.

btw, if you find this post useful, please paypal me $10 :D

[murrays]

Canon does have the edge (though I think it is a very small edge).

Wouldn't you agree the Nikon's had more detail (including noise) than the Canons at higher ISOs?

Here's another article by Ken showing the different noise reduction settings on a D200. http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d200/d200-hi-iso-nr.htm

I haven't looked at enough photos to know for sure, but it doesn't appear the Canon's are better at high ISO noise reduction, just different. Being able to adjust NR gives you the best of both worlds.

-murray

[RichNY]

It's a good thing coldrain isn't around to say something about this! lol:D


You think?;)

Ken Rockwell is always a lively and enjoyable read but I'd take quite a bit of his writing with a grain of salt. It's more 'infortainment' than anything else.

In memory of coldrain I'd like to do my impression of him responding to that post...

Q. What's the difference between Ken Rockwell and a used car salesman?
A. A used car salesman knows when he's lying.
* This is being said purely in jest and not to be taken seriously by anyone.

[murrays]

You think?;)

Ken Rockwell is a lively read but I'd take quite a bit of his writing with a grain of salt. OK, maybe a shaker of salt.

Yeah, I know some here don't like his opinions, but I really doubt he's doctoring the photos :rolleyes:

So the choice is higher noise reduction at the expense of detail or higher detail with more noise.

-murray

[RichNY]

So the choice is higher noise reduction at the expense of detail or higher detail with more noise.
-murray

You lost me on where you state that a D80 has more detail than a 30D or even XTi for that matter?

[cwphoto]

Often you hear that Nikon has better wide angle lenses too, but that is also not true. Both have some real gems in their lineup, it just takes some research to find.

Yeah, the 'Canon wide problem' is very much a furphy. Some argue that Canon's wides are soft, but they are certainly sharper than lenses which don't even exist on the other side...

[swgod98]

Wouldn't you agree the Nikon's had more detail (including noise) than the Canons at higher ISOs?

The test images shown on this website seem to indicate the 30D has a slight edge (in detail) over the D80 at ISO1600. If you take a moment to look, check the small text on the whiskey bottle in each of the ISO1600 shots...

Now, perhaps the difference in results we are seeing between Ken's site and this site is due to different conditions, lighting, lenses, subject matter, etc. I don't know...

This is why I keep saying the noise differences aren't that big...

[murrays]

The test images shown on this website seem to indicate the 30D has a slight edge (in detail) over the D80 at ISO1600. If you take a moment to look, check the small text on the whiskey bottle in each of the ISO1600 shots...

Perhaps you're right, but I think it's such a small difference that it's hard to see. There are other, more significant factors to consider than high ISO noise.

I'll stand by my statement that strong opinions either way (including Ken Rockwell's) should be taken with a "shaker of salt" :D

-murray

[ckrIII]

I would surely appreciate anyone else having warranty issues or problems with their D80 as I have. Could you post here and let me know if I have a unique problem, or is this a common issue for the new D80? My AF lens AND camera problems are posted under "Which Camera D80/Xti ??".
Seems my camera and lens did not make it past the 6-700 shots in the first several days of shooting. Now it has had a service "coded B2", repair with major components replaced in both lens and camera. Shipping back to the service factory is not cheap. (kit w/18-135mm lens)
I would like to say that I am not impressed with the lens (clarity), but now I don't actually know if I have ever seen it work correctly?