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View Full Version : Need help.....awful photos w/ Canon 30D



rt7042
09-16-2006, 07:20 PM
:confused: I just purchased a Canon 30D with a Sigma DG 28-300mm 1:3.5-6.3 lens. I purchased the camera to take high school football games. I am not able to get good photos during night games...they are either dark or blurry or BOTH.

I have been trying to play with the settings, but have had no luck getting good photos.

I can email samples of photos and settings I used (I do not know how to include them here).

RichNY
09-16-2006, 07:47 PM
Did you set the ISO up high? Email me the pic and settings.

rt7042
09-16-2006, 07:52 PM
I tried to upload a file with photos and settings....I hope this worked.:D

D Thompson
09-16-2006, 08:18 PM
They are blurry because of the slow shutter speeds. The slowest you can probably get by with is around 1/100. You'll have to shoot wide open & high iso.

aparmley
09-16-2006, 08:31 PM
First, I think you should edit your title to this thread.

Second, Dennis is right. The "awful" pictures that your 30D made you are the result of a slow lens and low light.

To shoot games at night you'll need a 70-200 F2.8 and even then that might not be fast enough for all highschool fields at night.

You'll need at least 1/250 shutter speeds, perhaps even 1/500 depending on when you take your shot. Your getting in some of these 1/50 I saw. . . double that and you get 1/100, double that and you'll get 1/200, double that and you get 1/400.

Those images were shot at 5.6-6.3. . . lets use 5.6 as an example.to double your shutter speed from 1/50 to 1/100 you need to double the light, to double the light you need to shoot at F4.0. To double the SS from 1/100 to 1/200 you need to double the light again so adjust aperture to 2.8. In those circumstances ISO 3200 at F2.8 will give you 1/200 SS - Still not fast enough to freeze motion at that field. So even after investing $1,200.00 into the 70-200 F 2.8L you still won't get shutter speeds fast enough to freeze the action on that field at ISO 3200.

I don't know what to tell you, its not the 30D - its that crappy lighting at your field.

Invest in a good book on exposure, I bought and highly recommend Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure.

ReF
09-16-2006, 08:45 PM
weird lens choice for the camera and purpose

like parm said try a 70-200 f2.8. shooting in Tv mode would probably help too. under exposing a bit, then brightening things up in PP and maybe some noise reduction would be better than blurs here IMO

rt7042
09-16-2006, 08:52 PM
Thanks for the feed back!! It is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!:)
1. I am sorry for the bad title to this tread...I LOVE the Canon 30D and it is the very best camera I have ever had the pleasure to use. BUT I lack the knowledge the use all the features. SO please know that the awful photos are my fault NOT that of the 30D!!!
2. I am a novice at this, I am just a Mother with a nice camera, not a photographer by any means!!!
3. I have had WONDERFUL success with the camera and lens in late afternoon games...it is the night games in the stadiums under the lights where I have problems.
4. The lens was a recommendation of the photo shop....they said I can exchange it for a full credit toward a 70-200 f2.8, which is the lens I had originally wanted. But they told me it was overkill with the 30D.
5. Should I go with the IS or not??? I am using a tripod.....

RichNY
09-16-2006, 09:00 PM
rt- everyone has given you the correct advise from needing a 2.8 to the Bryan Peterson book on exposure http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/sr=8-2/qid=1158461763/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-3593019-9193547?ie=UTF8&s=books
(I'd recommend buying it along with the Learning to See Creatively book- another excellent book that is purely dedicated to elements of design, composition and light)

Does anyone have a 1/200 photo of an object in motion they can post to show rt what he would most likely expect his shots to look like at 2.8 and 1/200. You might like the slight blurr and look of motion (much less than you have now) and of course photos of the sideline and huddles won't be so bad.

RichNY
09-16-2006, 09:05 PM
Should I go with the IS or not??? I am using a tripod.....

Several issues here. First, IS won't help you with the problem you are having. It will compensate for your hand vibration but does absolutely nothing for an object in motion.

When you are using a tripod you turn IS off so it won't be of any value to you there.

Where it will be of value is when you are hand holding your camera in decent lighting and your image quality is not as sharp as it could be if you had IS. On the 70-200 f/2.8, IS is definately a worthwhile feature, just pricey.

D Thompson
09-16-2006, 11:55 PM
Thanks for the feed back!! It is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!:)
1. I am sorry for the bad title to this tread...I LOVE the Canon 30D and it is the very best camera I have ever had the pleasure to use. BUT I lack the knowledge the use all the features. SO please know that the awful photos are my fault NOT that of the 30D!!!
2. I am a novice at this, I am just a Mother with a nice camera, not a photographer by any means!!!

The knowledge will come with use. Don't worry about all the features, just learn exposure. Learn when to use AV, TV, and manual.


3. I have had WONDERFUL success with the camera and lens in late afternoon games...it is the night games in the stadiums under the lights where I have problems.

You had more light in the afternoon games and your shutter speed was probably fast enough to stop the action.


4. The lens was a recommendation of the photo shop....they said I can exchange it for a full credit toward a 70-200 f2.8, which is the lens I had originally wanted. But they told me it was overkill with the 30D.

The Canon 70-200 f2.8 is a huge heavy lens. Make sure you try it before you buy it.


5. Should I go with the IS or not??? I am using a tripod.....

The IS will not help you in an action setting nor will the tripod. Again, stopping the action requires a fast shutter speed. You might try shooting in RAW and then bringing it up a bit in post processing. Don't know how comfortable you are with this thought tho. Hope this helps.

ReF
09-17-2006, 02:51 AM
hey that's great about the shop peeps letting you do an exchange. the 70-200 f2.8 may be somewhat big and clunky for some but the results you get should be worth toting it around. canon and sigma both make one, but i've only used the canon and don't know anyone who's got the sigma. 1/200 might still give you some blur but it's gonna be a lot better than 1/50. you might want to underexpose a touch in order to gain a bit more speed sometimes, then bring back the exposure in post processing. i find doing this in RAW with canon's included converter to be the easiest for this. you can do it in photoshop as well but i find i have to adjust color and contrast a lot more this way. like i mentioned before, a good noise reduction program should do wonders and you can do it all with a batch process. a tripod and/or IS won't help freeze the action but it's definately going to reduce blur from camera shake because you are shooting around 1/200 sec at long focal lengths (likely below the min. shutter speed = 1/focal length rule). i think IS will help even when tripod mounted because the tripod is there to help steady things but you will not have the head locked down while shooting, therefore there will still be some shake and movement. though IS should help, considering the tripod support, focal length, and 1/200 shutter speed i'm not sure just how much visible difference there will be. if $$$ is a secondary concern then i say go for the IS




Does anyone have a 1/200 photo of an object in motion they can post to show rt what he would most likely expect his shots to look like at 2.8 and 1/200. You might like the slight blurr and look of motion (much less than you have now) and of course photos of the sideline and huddles won't be so bad.

eh, rich >>>> "...2. I am a novice at this, I am just a Mother with a nice camera, not a photographer by any means!!!..."

RichNY
09-17-2006, 04:02 AM
i think IS will help even when tripod mounted because the tripod is there to help steady things but you will not have the head locked down while shooting, therefore there will still be some shake and movement. though IS should help, considering the tripod support, focal length, and 1/200 shutter speed i'm not sure just how much visible difference there will be. if $$$ is a secondary concern then i say go for the IS

eh, rich >>>> "...2. I am a novice at this, I am just a Mother with a nice camera, not a photographer by any means!!!..."

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you were supposed to shut the IS off on the 70-200 IS when the camera is mounted on a tripod?

eh, rich---I can blame it on my failure to read or just take the position that I'm not as sexist as you are and don't assume that just because someone is a Mother that she is female:D Ok, it was a failure to read on my part...

ReF
09-17-2006, 06:45 AM
heh, i just didn't want the OP to feel bad about the mix up


Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you were supposed to shut the IS off on the 70-200 IS when the camera is mounted on a tripod?


leaving aside the newer generation IS lenses that work on tripods, you won't have the ball locked down when tracking/panning/following action so while being mounted helps steady the rig, you can still have camera shake problems.

i'm getting a little off subject here but even when the head is locked, you'll get vibration when you touch the camera - it just takes a really long lens to see it through the viewfinder (like a 400mm or 400 x 1.4x). there's a reason why wild life photogs still need IS with their fancy support systems and proper technique. you won't see all that much shake at 200mm but i still think IS will help here and there for the OP purposes. not sure the cost of a 70-200 f2.8 IS is justifiable though

RichNY
09-17-2006, 07:59 AM
but i still think IS will help here and there for the OP purposes. not sure the cost of a 70-200 f2.8 IS is justifiable though

for HER or in general. I know of one guy in NY whose planning on being seperated from his money real soon for that IS feature on the 70-200 f/2.8:rolleyes: Then again, I know I've got a slight hand tremor

ReF
09-17-2006, 08:10 AM
for HER or in general. I know of one guy in NY whose planning on being seperated from his money real soon for that IS feature on the 70-200 f/2.8:rolleyes: Then again, I know I've got a slight hand tremor

refering to the OP of course. in general i could think of a lot more situations to use a 70-200 IS than just "here and there" ;) .

i hope the OP doesn't think i'm saying ya gots to get the IS version

BonjiB
09-22-2006, 10:23 PM
A very cost effective and still very good quality alternative to the 1100 dollar canon 70-200 f/2.8L is the sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX. It has excellent optics and will provide you with oustanding results at a mere 750-800 bucks. It's going to be my next lens. Granted if you have the 1100 dollars the canon is the way to go but i don't so i'm just offering suggestions. A 2.8 is really a must for stopping that kind of action and if you don't like the cost/bulk of the canon 70-200 the sigma 70-200 would be a very good (and lighter) alternative.

DonSchap
09-22-2006, 10:34 PM
Before you go and pop for the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS or non-IS USM...

I suggest you wait a week... until Photokina, the big photgraphy show in Cologne, Germany cuts loose with its manufacturer release announcements.

TAmROn is "supposedly" announcing the new SP AF70-210mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) lens, which is supposed to weigh only 25 - 30 oz. and is supposed to rival the Canon, toe to toe. Also... it's like half the Canon's cost and half the weight of the "IS"-version. Obviously, all this hype remains to be seen... but personally I believe that in your case, it may be worth the wait... unless you've got big bucks to burn, then... who cares, right? I mean... a week? Saving a ton of scratch? And not having to put up with 25 more ounces of lens than you need... :rolleyes: It's almost a no-brainer!

RichNY
09-22-2006, 10:58 PM
The one thing we do know for sure is that it won't have IS. Do you think you might be selling your 2.8 IS and purchasing one of these?

Rex914
09-22-2006, 11:02 PM
Before you go and pop for the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS or non-IS USM...

I suggest you wait a week... until Photokina, the big photgraphy show in Cologne, Germany cuts loose with its manufacturer release announcements.

TAmROn is "supposedly" announcing the new SP AF70-210mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) lens, which is supposed to weigh only 25 - 30 oz. and is supposed to rival the Canon, toe to toe. Also... it's like half the Canon's cost and half the weight of the "IS"-version. Obviously, all this hype remains to be seen... but personally I believe that in your case, it may be worth the wait... unless you've got big bucks to burn, then... who cares, right? I mean... a week? Saving a ton of scratch? And not having to put up with 25 more ounces of lens than you need... :rolleyes: It's almost a no-brainer!

I hope that what the rep told you was right. Tamron announced their first lens (18-250) already and there's still no sign of this one.

ReF
09-22-2006, 11:29 PM
uh, i think the op's long gone from this thread...

DonSchap
09-22-2006, 11:36 PM
or this is going to be the most boring Photokina, ever.

I know a number of manufacturer's jumped the gun, cutting loose their inventory of stuff... but I am still holding out hope that not everything has been... released. I have heard:


Fujifilm has the S4... OMG :eek:
Tamron is popping out the SP AF70-210mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)
Tokina is planning on releasing it's trio of new lenses
Samsung has its trio of winners (already released to the media)


I tell ya, I would love to see a price reduction in printer ink... that's the real rip-off, in my book. (Go ahead, Rex, tell me I'm wrong... LOL :rolleyes: )

Well, let's just see what happens, shall we? The fun begins... Monday! Personally, I wish I could be there... :D

15618

John_Reed
09-23-2006, 12:30 AM
Should have a brand-new Foveon sensor, hopefully with enough pixels and high-ISO capability to make it a competitor with the big boys. Supposedly to be unveiled on Tuesday the 26th.