Need help and adivce: D50, D70 and D80 [Archive] - Digital Camera Resource Page Forums

eyecandy

09-03-2006, 11:44 AM

I am in need of some help and advice on a D-SLR purchase I am looking between the D50, D70s and D80. Once again, I would have to consider myself a newbie to the SLR world. First of all let me explain alittle about myself, I will try to keep this as short as possible.

The last SLR I purchased was the Nikon N80 when it was first released (back in 2001?), we were buddies that camera would go everywhere I was. I cannot say I mastered the camera, but I defiantly explored most of the features and functions and had a good understanding of the setup. In 2002 I got my first digital camera, a Sony point n shoot. I fell victim to digital revolution, mainly due to the fact of unlimted picture taking, not having to “develop” all of the pictures and the compact size of the Sony. The Sony was now my new buddy while the N80 was pushed aside and used for special occasions, and very quickly became a nonexistent camera. Now that brings us to the present, for the past 6 months I have been kicking around getting a D-SLR, mainly because I would like to get back into the SLR’s range and quality, my only worry is that I will hate lugging around an SLR v a Point-n-shoot. As in the past I will primiarly be using the camera for motorsports, family events, and vacations; I would like to try to get more professional.

With my limited knowledge of D-SLR’s I have been comparing the D50 and D70s and side from speed, storage media ( I like SD better), size and price I do not see much of a difference between the two. Although I was reading the lack of the second dial and non-backlight control panel is a couple short falls on the D50. This past week when I was looking again I saw that the D80 is out/coming out (D70 getting dated?), and that became a consideration mainly for the fact of it being new, increased MegaPixels/resolution (I know its not all about MP), continuous photos I know there are many other features, but those are what stands out.

Due to my budget around $1000, (but I guess I could consider alittle more $1300 for the D80 kit). I have been considering the D50 more and more, so that I have the extra cash to put into and better lens. Plus for the fact I consider myself a newbie again, and I think it would be better to master a camera with fewer features and out grow a camera than not, am I right?

How does the picture quality differ between the D50 and D70s? Can the D50 achieve the same quality, say using the same lens? I hear the 18-55 lens is kinda crappy and would be best to upgrade to the 18-70mm from the D70.

If there is anyone that has used both the D50 and D70(s) and could lend your thoughts that would be great!

I am 85% set on the D50, if anyone can persuade me for or against it please do so! I think that is everything, I apologize for the long read.

Warin

09-03-2006, 12:01 PM

The D50 is a great little camera; however, if you can afford the extra, go for the D80. here's why:

1)Larger LCD. The 2.5 on my D200 is awesome, I totally love it compared to the D70s/D50 LCD.

2) Better viewfinder. After using my D200, I shot a D70s and was shocked at how small and dim the vf was in comparison. The D80 shares, as far as I know, the D200 finder.

3) Commander mode on pop up flash. Lets you do CLS wireless flash work without needing to plonk down for either an onboard SB800 or an SU800.

4) Upgraded AF. CAM1000 instead of CAM900. More points, seems to be faster as well.

Well worth the extra dollars, I would think, and you still get SD memory if you really want it.

eyecandy

09-03-2006, 12:45 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Believe me I would love to get the D80, its not so much the price difference, its well worth it and I can afford it. My concern is will I actually use/see benefit from the extra features/price? What I mean is, I have been away from SLRs pretty long (I like the compactness of PnS), and in the back of my mind I have the thought that it may sit from time to time, kinda how I have not used my N80 is about 4 years. I know it would not sit that long, but would I get my money/use out of it?

I know alot of this is up to me, and I really just need to get my head straight. Like I said I am looking for advice and it is appreciated.

rawpaw18

09-03-2006, 12:57 PM

Eyecandy

Welcome to the forum. Got my D50 back in January and love it. I feel at this time I would like some of the new features of the D80, but it does not take away from the fact that the D50 is capable of some really fine photos. Check out the noise shots, on this site, vs. the D70, they are really good.

Commander mode on pop up flash. Lets you do CLS wireless flash work without needing to plonk down for either an onboard SB800 or an SU800.
-For this reason alone I would consider the D80.

RichNY

09-03-2006, 01:09 PM

My concern is will I actually use/see benefit from the extra features/price? I know it would not sit that long, but would I get my money/use out of it?

First, will you get use of of the camera. Probably a lot more so since once you own your camera you won't have the inconvenience and cost of buying/processing film. You'll also be more likely to share your photos with others via email or posting them online. I'd be less concerned about periods of when your camera sits idle than not having for the times you really want to take photos.

D80- WIll you use/see the benefits of the extra features? Yes, every single time you pick up your camera! Warin's first two points are the most obvious. It will be easier to look and compose your photo in the viewfinder and the LCD screen is larger for reviewing your shots. This alone is worth the extra $. The extra resolution, better focusing, and options for flash photography are icing on the cake along with in camera imaging options, an optional battery pack, Depth of field button, etc.

And in the unlikely event that you decide not to keep it, you'll find more of a market to resell it and you'll recoup the difference in price.

eyecandy

09-03-2006, 06:06 PM

One thing I forgot to add in my orginal post, was before I started looking I was set on the D50. For kicks I was looking at the D200, I figured I would get the D50, and upgrade later on when Nikon brought out a updated model to the D70 (or buy the D200), well they just did, then I saw the D80, mistake ;)

Check out the noise shots, on this site, vs. the D70, they are really good.

Where can I find this? I have heard that there is very low noise with the D50 maybe better than the D70(s)

Commander mode on pop up flash. Lets you do CLS wireless flash work without needing to plonk down for either an onboard SB800 or an SU800.
-For this reason alone I would consider the D80.

I am not firmilar with what you are talking about.

RichNY, You have some very good points, its making my decision easier but harder on the wallet :D . I have not processed film(used a 35mm) for about 4 years now :o

I guess one other question I have is would I get lost or confused say going with the D80 v the D50, or would it be about the same? I am also looking for ease of use, since I am getting back into SLRs.

Warin

09-03-2006, 06:20 PM

This (http://help.nikon.ca/cgi-bin/nikoncanada.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=9482&p_created=1078847713&p_sid=EQBrNKgi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9ncmlkc29yd D0mcF9yb3dfY250PTM2MCZwX3Byb2RzPTAmcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9 wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJja F9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PUNyZWF0aXZlIEx pZ2h0aW5nIFN5c3RlbQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1) is an explanation of the CLS.

In a nutshell, it allows use of multiple speedlights, one or more of which can be positioned and fired remotely.

For example, I had my D200 set up with an SB600 and SB800 off camera. The on camera pop up sent the signal to the external speedlights to fire. With the D50, you'd need a seperate controller to fire the flashes... the D70s/D80/D200 have the commander built into the camera.

I dont think the D80 will, in any sense of the word, be overkill. I recommend the 18-70 AFS DX kit lens. It doesnt have the reach of the new 18-135, but I suspect it is far better in terms of build quality and overall optics.

RichNY

09-03-2006, 07:41 PM

As nice as the D200 is, price aside, it would be a much more challenging camera to learn to operate. The D80 and D50 will both be easy to learn to use- the D80 will be easier and more comfortable to use because of the better menu system, eyepiece, and larger LCD.

Don't be overly concerned with noise. The D80 should be better than the D50 and the noise with the D50 comes only at higher ISOs and even then can be removed with software.

Going with the D80 would be my first choice, buying a used D50 would be my second choice. Personally I wouldn't invest the extra money on a new D50 today.

Suggestion- Either take the D80 that I have on hold at a local store that can ship to you next week without waiting or quickly find a used D50 online. The longer you analyze this the more confusing the choice will become. Don't ask me how I know this.:mad: You can't go wrong- cheap,easy & good pics vs. more features & good pics.

rawpaw18

09-03-2006, 08:16 PM

Where can I find this? I have heard that there is very low noise with the D50 maybe better than the D70(s)

Here is one.
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d50-review/index.shtml

rawpaw18

09-03-2006, 08:21 PM

Here is another one

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/page17.asp

K1W1

09-03-2006, 08:55 PM

Personally nothing I have seen yet would make me buy a D80 over a D50 if I was starting out. I went through the D50 / D70 choice last year and ended up with the D50.
If I was buying today I would still get a D50 and be waiting for the D200 replacement (the one that will use SD cards) as my next possible Nikon body in maybe two years time.
This is my Australian 2 cents worth so it's only valued at about 1.4 cents US. :)

erichlund

09-04-2006, 02:13 AM

As nice as the D200 is, price aside, it would be a much more challenging camera to learn to operate. The D80 and D50 will both be easy to learn to use- the D80 will be easier and more comfortable to use because of the better menu system, eyepiece, and larger LCD.

I have to laugh when I see something like this. First of all, the D200 was dead simple to get started with. The control layout is basically the same as all the other Nikon cameras, and learning the basics takes only minutes. Seconds if you have any experience at all with Nikon dSLRs.

There's no requirement that you be an expert at every feature of a camera before you start shooting. So if the basic layout makes sense, don't worry that you may have to someday actually read the manual. That can only be good. In fact, I'd bet that once you start using the camera more manually, the D200 is simpler than the D50, just because of the front command wheel.

Well, I've hijacked this thread enough. This isn't a D200 thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Cheers,
Eric

RichNY

09-04-2006, 09:25 AM

I have to laugh when I see something like this. First of all, the D200 was dead simple to get started with. The control layout is basically the same as all the other Nikon cameras, and learning the basics takes only minutes. Seconds if you have any experience at all with Nikon dSLRs.

There's no requirement that you be an expert at every feature of a camera before you start shooting. So if the basic layout makes sense, don't worry that you may have to someday actually read the manual. That can only be good. In fact, I'd bet that once you start using the camera more manually, the D200 is simpler than the D50, just because of the front command wheel.

Well, I've hijacked this thread enough. This isn't a D200 thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Cheers,
Eric

Eric- I can leave it that we have differing opinions. In my opinion as someone w/o as much experience and who purchase a D200 book to get more aquainted with the camera (w/o having one), and having read all of the online reviews I don't agree. While the D200 features like the command wheel are great, it is the fact that the D200 presents the user with so many many options and choices that it can be overwhelming to someone starting out.

And while you are 100% correct that one doesn't need to know every feature, to the uninitiated they don't know which features & options they do need to learn up front and which they don't. I'm definately a read the book type of guy- I've read a 3rd party D200 book and I've read the complete D80 manual. So, I"m fine with the fact we differ here and that there exist better issues to debate :)

jcon

09-04-2006, 03:05 PM

The manuals can be very confusing sometimes, I couldnt understand the D50 manual so just took the camera and played with it and learned "hands on". So I wouldnt blindly say a camera wont be easy to use just because of the manuals and or books.

my personal suggestion would be the D50.

Just my 2 cents:D

RichNY

09-04-2006, 03:38 PM

The manuals can be very confusing sometimes, I couldnt understand the D50 manual ...
Just my 2 cents:D

Nobody could be happier about Nikon's manuals than Thom Hogan.
http://www.bythom.com/index.htm

JREMKE

09-05-2006, 05:25 AM

Eyecandy,

Here I go again, but save some money and buy a D50 refurb.

JRE

eyecandy

09-05-2006, 05:01 PM

Thanks for all the links, info and opinions guys, they have been great, and more are always welcome!

Warin, thanks for the info on the CLS, although I doubt I will using that much, atleast at this time.

RichNY, Thats what I was looking for, I do not want to be overwhelmed with too many features/functions, but rather learn with what is there and master those. You mentioned looking for a used a few times, and about not investing money in a new D50, can you explain why?

I think I am past the point of getting confused, I think my decision is becoming more clear now.

http://www.bythom.com/index.htm --- Thats an awesome link!

K1W1, it seems we think somewhat alike. That was my orginal intention, but at the time (pre-D80 release) I did not see much in the D70s, a few things, but not much to make me buy it. I was intending on buying the D50 then upgrade to the D200/replacement.

erichlund, I see where you are coming from, but I think (as RichNY has stated) that is from a stand point of having too many options. I understand there is no real requirment on skill level, my thoughts are you should try to stick around a camera you would use and the features that would benefit you, ie ametuers are not going to buy a D2x, just like I feel buying a D200 is out of my league.

K1W1

09-05-2006, 05:10 PM

Just keep in mind that the most important thing in the whole photography equation is the person pressing the shutter.
Thom Hogan (for example) with a D50 and 18-55 lens vs me with the most expensive Nikon body and lens available would be a no contest. I would get creamed and I know it and am prepared to admit it even to myself.

RichNY

09-05-2006, 05:22 PM

Camera technology is changing quickly with cameras being obsolete long before they fail mechanically. By obsolete I'm referring to the fact that people "want" the features of newer cameras, not that it will stop taking great pictures.

The D50 is at the end of its product cycle and it won't be long before it is replaced. My belief is that if you are not buying something that just came out there is no reason not to buy used and pay less. If you really get into the hobby you'll be wanting to upgrade at some point in the future and you'll feel less guilty about doing so sooner.

eyecandy

09-05-2006, 08:20 PM

I see your point about the technology, and that is one of the reasons for considering the D80 latest and greatest, and the same reason for not considering the D70(s). Although today I thought about maybe looking for a used D70(s). It's just my mind set is that I always gotta have new :D and typically do not mid spending the extra for new. Plus you know exactly what you are getting.

Where is a good place to look for a used or refurbished? Forum classified's, eBay, online or retail stores? Do you know if the refurbished offer any kind of warranty? What kind of price should I look for in a used D50 or D70s

wh0128

09-05-2006, 09:37 PM

don't know any answers to the questions you just posted eyecandy, but i just bought a d50 in june before a vacation, about two days before it, and I was already taking excellent quality photos for what I had purchased. It is extremely easy to use, and the manual is not hard at all, unless you don't know how to read. Just have your camera by yourside with the manual testing everything they talk about and you should be fine. Pretty much memorize every quality on your camera. Now this is for the d50, and I have never shot with a d200 or had the time to look through the menu and search what it was capable of but, I really don't think it would be THAT difficult. There might be some features you might not 'really' need but who cares. hey maybe down the road you'll be shooting and want to try something new, and there you have some technique that you've never used and want to use it, such as b&w shots, or editing your image in screen. I'd say for you, in my opinion, to get the d50 even though you lose some of the features in the d70(s)/d80/d200. But once you are done with the d50, as it will keep an amateur pretty busy for quite awhile, then most of the cameras we all are talking about now, will be dropped in price, and even more dropped in price if you buy them used. I didn't even look at reviews before I bought my d50, because I knew that i was a real good quality DSLR camera that was cheap, and affordable for an amateur/beginning photographer, and also knew that it could also be used to take photos at family get-togethers. Its all your decision, just leave it at that.

If i was you, I'd go look at ebay for used Nikons, I saw some cheap d50/d70(s)

JREMKE

09-06-2006, 12:25 PM

Eyecandy,

Please send me a private email and I will give you the info.

JREMKE

eyecandy

09-07-2006, 09:09 PM

Alright so I decided to stop at Ritz to get a hands on feel of the D50 and most likely purchase it as well. I like the feel of the D50 the best (size/weight) it seems almost perfect wieght for the size. Guess what they just got the D80 instock. The D80 is about the same size (cannot feel a difference) but it weights alot more, it does not feel as comfortable to hold. I then decided to take a look at the D70s for a comparison, and well the D70 was about the same weigth as the D80, but in a larger body and it felt a little better in the hand, like having more leverage to hold it. I did like the range of zoom on the 18-135mm lens from the D80 kit although I am not sure of image/lens quality.

The guy was very nice and knowledgeable, he recomended the D50 for the price, features (with my level), and the fact it can produce very nice photos. He did say that if I went with the D80 it would take longer to learn all the features but the basics are still the same and you pretty much learn what you want.

I asked him if he knew if Nikon was coming out with a replacement for the D50, and he said its the D80, thats the new entry SLR, its to take place of the D50 and D70.

I have a few technical questions:

How will a 1/4000sec or 1/8000 shutter speed effect "freezing the motion"? Both the D50 and 80 are 1/4000 and the D70 is 1/8000. With shooting motorsports is above 1/4000 required to stop the motion? I assume alot of that has to do with the lens correct.

What is Depth of Field preview? What is it used for? Why would I want it?

Anythoughts on the Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 lens over the Nikon 18-70 4.5-5.6 lens? They are about the same price.

TNB

09-07-2006, 10:20 PM

I also stopped in at Ritz tonight and checked out the D80. Over all, I still like the feel of the D200 though I never considered the D200 when I first purchased the D50--Then I really liked the idea of easing into learning how to operate a dSLR camera and was really leary of how much I wanted to spend on another hobby. If I could start over, didn't have a camera now, and was willing to spend the extra bucks, I would go with a D80. However, if I felt as comfortable now, had the bucks, and wanted a new camara, I would purchase the D200 because it also has a faster frame rate over the D50-D80. Now, if Nikon would release a D200s....

If I shoot in the "sport" mode, the action usually freezes. However, the more photos I take the more I usually want some motion blur--wheels, tires, and background. I turn off the automatic ISO and set the ISO at around 400.

Here is one example.

http://image.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/70716/Jg14279.jpg

RichNY

09-07-2006, 10:55 PM

You packed a lot of questions in that post!

-D50, D70, D80: When you picked them up to see how comfortable they were to hold did you have lenses on them or where you just holding the body? If it was just the body I'd go back and try it again with a typical size lens you would be using. Light is great, but not at the expense of the lens/camera being balanced.

When chosing your camera don't take into account the range of the kit lens. Chances are good that you may want to purchase something than the kit lens anyway, and if you really love a particular kit lens you can order it with any body.

When you tried the D80 did you also see how it felt with the optional battery pack on it? Although it adds to the weight you might prefer the way it balances the camera/lens and you will definately prefer having it as a feature when you shoot in portrait vs. landscape mode. (try this at the store to see for yourself)

In the end any you will be happy with any of the three cameras- just make sure you are getting the true feel for the camera before deciding on which is ergonomically best for YOU.

The salesman was right about the D80 taking longer to learn ALL the features because there are items such as video playback, in camera editing, etc. that the D50/D70 don't have. Where the statement is somewhat misleading is that it won't take longer to learn to take pictures and do the functions that the D50 can do. This is somewhat different than the D200 comparison where there were so many more ways to configuration options to take the pictures.

Do you know the difference between a used car salesman and a camera salesman? A used car salesman knows when he is lying. The D80 is not replacing both the D50 & D70. There is no way that Nikon is going to have its least expensive camera selling at $999 and give away the entire entry level market to Canon.

Quicker shutter speeds will freeze the action better than slower shutter speeds. BUT, in order to get a proper exposure you are going to have to do one of two things (or both) with a faster shutter speed. Up the ISO (more noise), or have a faster lens (f/2.8, f/1.8, f/1.4, etc.) You are going to be paying a lot more for your lenses than your body to get these faster lenses. In practical terms, you won't be shooting even at 1/4000 of a sec, let alone 1/8000 so it is a moot point.

The depth of field preview will give you a better idea of the range of what is in sharp focus as it will appear in the final image. The viewfinder preview will appear dimmer because the aperature is smaller but it does serve to show you what will appear sharp v. blurred. A bell and whistle nice feature but certainly not a necessity.

Sorry I can't be of any help on the lenses but there are some very knowledgeable who will be willing to share conflicting information with you on any lenses you might be considering ;)

wh0128

09-07-2006, 11:36 PM

What is Depth of Field preview? What is it used for? Why would I want it?

RichNY is right in all the answers he gave. The 1/4000 is soo fast that it will freeze everything, and like TNB likes some blur with his movement, 1/4000 won't give that to you. everything will be sharp, and you really won't get the sense of motion unless you pan along with the race car. I'd say a shutterspeed of about 1/1000 or maybe 1/1250 is fast enough. and for you to get that blur, stoping down the ISO to 200, will ensure with a small aperture, that you will be able to use slow enough shutterspeeds to create blur, but fast enough so you don't produce any vibrations from your breathing. This ISO 200 will create less noise than say an ISO400/800/1600/ 3200(only some models).

With the DoF preview you will be able to change the aperture and see what your results will look like. It'll provide for you how much of your picture will be in sharp focus. Remember an aperture with a smaller number f/2.8 will let in more light, and have a much shallower DoF, than lest say an f/16 or f/22. This feature really isn't necessary unless you are going to be getting really serious with photography and want to control every little detail of your photo, or your just curious as to what your picture will look like.

K1W1

09-08-2006, 01:55 AM

What is Depth of Field preview? What is it used for? Why would I want it?

DOF preview is usually a button on the camera the when pressed will allow you to look through the viewfinder and see a representation of what is in focus and what is is not in a scene.
Personally it's not something I have ever used and it definitely is not something I would ever judge my buy or not buy decision on.

RichNY

09-08-2006, 02:41 AM

RichNY is right in all the answers he gave.
Who128 is correct when he points out that I was correct in all my answers :D

I agree with K1W1 that DOF isn't a feature to really be concerned about when choosing a camera. The bottom line is that if you have a basic understanding of aperature settings and how they affect depth of field, you will already know what will be in focus and blurred without the need for a DOF button.

In summary, low f stops like 1.4, 1.8, 2.8, 3.5 etc. will give you very shallow depth of field.

Use big f stops like f22 when you want the entire photo in full detail

Take a picture with your lens at each of these f stops and compare the depth of field. You'll then know just where to set your f stop to get the desired result.

What about the middle f stops like f/8 and 11? These usually provide the sweet spot of a lens and give the greatest sharpness. You would choose to use them when your subject and background are at the same focal lenght. Ex. A person with a wall behind them. Shooting down at a person laying down on a beach blanket, etc.

Another way of looking at this is that you aren't going to have time to check DOF with a moving subject when you are shooting with Shutter Priority. So if you are shooting a static picture with digital you could always set the aperature where you believe it should be and take a picture. You will still be pressing one button and will get a much better picture to look at than a dark DOF preview in the viewfinder. Either way, if you weren't happy with the DOF you would still adjust the aperature the same way. The more I think about it, the more useless I think the button is.

eyecandy

09-08-2006, 01:53 PM

One thing I did not take into consideration when I was holding the cameras was the lens on them. Stupid me! Anyways The d50 had the 18-55, the D70 had the 18-70 and the D80 had the 18-135, which is why there was a difference in weight, I thought about that after I left the store, then I reminded myself after I made the post last night. So if I were to switch any of the lens around then the feel would change.

When I was saying I like the 18-135 lens in the D80 kit I realzie I can purchase the body seperate from the lens, and with the D50 I would do that forsure. I just liked the range of the 18-135, I feel that is a lens that would stay on the camera for a good bit of the time, its seems to have a nice range.

I figured as much with the shutter speed (lens exspoure), but I assume that the shutter speed has more to do with FPS than freezing the action, ie the reason the D200 is 5fps or like the higher models.

--How much does the media card have to do with the speed? The guy at Ritz said the reason for the slower speeds is because the D50/80 uses SD where are the D70/200 uses CF. IS one really better than another?

I understand the DOF, I see your point where its not a necessity. Besides it sound like how you said, if you do not have time to take a real picture, but say if need to make adjustments after hitting the DOF then to mee it does not make sense ,just take the picture.... I guess if you know what you are doing you don't need it.

TNB

09-08-2006, 03:34 PM

--How much does the media card have to do with the speed? The guy at Ritz said the reason for the slower speeds is because the D50/80 uses SD where are the D70/200 uses CF. IS one really better than another?
I'd really like to know the answer to the "SD v CF" debate myself since I've also heard rumour about the CF going bye-bye--this is the main reason I am wondering if something like a D200s is going to be released with something like an SD media card.

RichNY

09-08-2006, 03:38 PM

So if I were to switch any of the lens around then the feel would change.
-YES. That is not to say you might come to the same conclusion, but then again you might not.

When I was saying I like the 18-135 lens in the D80 kit I realzie I can purchase the body seperate from the lens, and with the D50 I would do that forsure. I just liked the range of the 18-135, I feel that is a lens that would stay on the camera for a good bit of the time, its seems to have a nice range.
-For confenience you might consider the 18-200
-For better low light shots you might consider the 18-55 f/2.8
-Don't rule out 3rd party lenses as your best initial lens.
You might post a question on the board as to what is the best lens choice- there are people more qualified than me who can help you make the best decision.

I figured as much with the shutter speed (lens exspoure), but I assume that the shutter speed has more to do with FPS than freezing the action, ie the reason the D200 is 5fps or like the higher models.
- No. Considering that you only need 1/20 of a second shutter speed to get to 5fps, the rest has to do with how you want to stop or blur moving items, or how you want to set the depth of field with your aperature setting, etc.

How much does the media card have to do with the speed? The guy at Ritz said the reason for the slower speeds is because the D50/80 uses SD where are the D70/200 uses CF. IS one really better than another?
-Time to find a new salesman. Maximum shutter speed has nothing to do with the whether the camera uses SD or CF. Which is better? Most prefer their new camera to use the same as their last so they don't have to purchase new cards. If that isn't the case, SD is smaller and has less contacts to potentially get damaged and will be the next wave of the future, CF is larger and some pros like find them easier to find when they are in their pants pocket. Overall I'd say SD, but it ranks about the 258th most important criteria when selecting a camera.

I understand the DOF, I see your point where its not a necessity. Besides it sound like how you said, if you do not have time to take a real picture, but say if need to make adjustments after hitting the DOF then to mee it does not make sense ,just take the picture.... I guess if you know what you are doing you don't need it.

Hope this puts you one step closer to making the right choice.

K1W1

09-08-2006, 03:54 PM

I'd really like to know the answer to the "SD v CF" debate myself since I've also heard rumour about the CF going bye-bye--this is the main reason I am wondering if something like a D200s is going to be released with something like an SD media card.

The salesmans assertion that the card format (CF vs SD) is the reason for the speed difference is complete and utter B/S! Do not buy from anybody who is either so iggnorant or lies so much to get a sale.
The reason for speed differences is the internal processing power of the camera and what features the manufacturer has built into it. The reality is that virtually every modern CF or SD card will outperform every camera in terms of data transfer speed.
Yes CF will disappear over the next couple of years as the manufacturers migrate to the superior SD spec but there are many die hards who will keep using for a long time to come in the same way that people still use film and floppy discs.

coldrain

09-08-2006, 04:07 PM

CF has a big advantage over SD, and that is.... size. Try changing an SD card quickly with cold fingers, or with gloves. this may be a reason why CF may be continued to be used in more professional cameras. Time will tell.

K1W1

09-08-2006, 05:48 PM

With 8GB SD cards on the market and 16GB cards not far away the days of regularly changing media are behind us methinks.

eyecandy

09-08-2006, 10:30 PM

Well I think I have made up mine mind, well kinda. I have been doing a lot of readin gin magazines, online about the various cameras, techonolgies etc. After reading some scattered reviews and opinions on the D80 a lot of people do not feel that the D80's features and picture quality (from sample images) justify the $1000 price, although some did say that there is probably still a lot to be discovered with the D80, but at this point to go with the D50 or D70.

So right now I have decided to go with the D50, mainly for price so I put the extra towards better or more lenses. Although for $150 more I have been thinking about the D70s, I do like the extra features/functions/ease of setting up the camera. I think it maybe faster and along with easier to setup the camera. The main reason for not wanting this is because it uses CF, I know that is a stupid reason. I like SD, all of my other cameras (or family members) take the SD and if I am in a pinch I could use it. Besides I feel it is the card of the future (more and more cameras appearing with it). But then it all comes back to some of the reviews I read that the D50 can produce just as good if not some better pictures than the D70.

The I just need to get some lens!!

I apologize for dragging this thread out for so long, I am sure some of you are getting annoyed with me, as I said before I greatly appreciate(d) you input!

I don't know I am just SO confused!!! I just need to buy one LOL! Hopefully I can make my mind of tomorrow!

jcon

09-08-2006, 11:21 PM

This is just my own personal observation but the reason I chose the D50 over the D70 or D70s was I felt the D50 had better image quality and was a tad better in noise. Im sure some wil disagree but after looking at samples, D50 looked the best of the bunch for me. Either way youre going to get a great camera! Stop confusing yourself, buy one and spend your time taking pictures and not debating on what to get ;)

FYI, Extra money for lenses would be very nice to have, after all its the lenses that make the body:D

K1W1

09-09-2006, 02:33 AM

Congratulations.
SD was also one of the major reasons in swinging me to the D50 and I have not regretted buying the camera for a milisecond.

TNB

09-10-2006, 08:33 PM

Congratulations.
SD was also one of the major reasons in swinging me to the D50 and I have not regretted buying the camera for a milisecond.
I haven't regretting purchasing my D50 either but today, I also purchased a D200. :) Now, the D50 is going in for a cleaning and a check-up.

RichNY

09-10-2006, 09:45 PM

Don't forget that an important criteria is how they feel in your hands which is going to require a trip to the local store.

*I've heard people complain about the Rebel XT feeling too small in their hands, but haven't heard anyone complain about either the D50 being too small or ergonomically unpleasing. Did anyone else hear to the contrary?

eyecandy

09-11-2006, 08:52 PM

I haven't regretting purchasing my D50 either but today, I also purchased a D200. :) Now, the D50 is going in for a cleaning and a check-up.

Congrats!

Rather than continue with this thread about lenses I decided to start another.
http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=154730#post154730

TNB

09-11-2006, 10:35 PM

Thanks. It sure is a lot different. :D

eyecandy

09-13-2006, 08:23 PM

Alright I hate to bring this back up, but please bare with me. I was doing a bit of price shopping online with brick/motar stores and well I found the D70s kit for $899. I had decided on the D50 and I was most likely going to start out with the nikon 18-70 lens which that would run about $949. Even if I buy the lens from and online store or ebay I would be looking at about the same price as the D70s kit.

Obviously the D70s can do the following over the D50; take better pictures, faster, has more adjustabilty, award winning :)

Now this may be a stupid question, Does the D50 have anything on the D70s that would make it the better buy?

I know the D70s has been discontinued, and the D50 may or may not be in the near furture, so knowing that, buying D70s is not as difficult as the speculation to the status of the current D50. I guess I could get over the D70s using CF :rolleyes:

jcon

09-13-2006, 08:54 PM

My honest opinion is that the D50 and D70s are very close in image quality. I really dont think you should let it pursuade you from buying a camera just because it might be discontinued.... there is a reason you have thought about getting it. Just because Nikon stops making that model doesnt mean the currently produced ones stop taking good pictures!!!

RichNY

09-13-2006, 11:07 PM

I think the D50 offers the best value of the Nikon line. It's priced very well, is light weight, and feels good. It's light weight is especially appealing to women but that's not to say it's not comfortable even for a man with larger hands.

Personally if you were to move up from the D50 I'd go to the D80 because it offers more value than the cost differential between it and the D70. I also believe that it will retain more of its value 2 years from now if you decide to sell it.

So to me, the question comes down to is the D80 worth $450 or almost double the cost of the D50? From a value point, I don't think so. From the quality of images you will get, I don't think so. Your extra money is being spent on non-essential nice to have features and convenience.

For the same price of a D80 you can also purchase the much better built Canon 20D which also has better image quality. And for only a $165 more than the D80 you can purchase the even finer Canon 30D and in my opinion worth the extra $135.

So my opinion, for the .02 that it's worth is that if there isn't any feature lacking in the D50 for your needs (and there probably isn't for most of us if we really get down to it), then jump up to the Canon 20D or 30D.

I was planning to buy a D80 originally, I loved the way it felt in the store today, but for the cost of a D80 I believe that Canon offers superior products. At this price point Nikon is offering a few extra pix that still won't produce an image as clean as the Canon, a nicer menu system, and some P&S features from its Coolpix line. Canon on the other hand is providing far superior build quality, better image quality especially as ISO goes up, software that you'd have to purchase to get the same function from Nikon, and 5fps v. 3fps.

TNB

09-14-2006, 01:03 AM

RichNY

09-14-2006, 02:15 AM

Why not just go from the D50 to a D200 upgrade instead of a D80? I know the main reason I went for the D200 is that it is FASTER than the D50-D80 series. In my case, I was also able to continue using the same Nikon lenses I purchased for my Nikon D50 and retain my Nikon D50 as a back-up, instead of trying to sell not only a Nikon camera body but the Nikon lenses as well if I would have followed your suggestion by switching to a Canon priced higher than the Nikon D80 after purchasing the entry level Nikon D50. For a list of awards received by the Nikon D200, visit Nikon USA. Just wondering, have you held the Nikon D200? I know I also liked the feel of the Nikon D200 much better than the D50-D80 series.

This thread is for someone buying their first DSLR and trying to decide at what level they should purchase. (Budget $1000-$1300)

When I was stating that I believed that the Canon 20/30 should be the next step up from a D50 I was strictly referring to the camera to consider for a first time buyer, not someone who already owned a D50 and glass in which case I'd agree with your suggestion. A D200 body alone is already $300 over the stretched budget so isn't a consideration.

K1W1

09-14-2006, 03:02 AM

Obviously the D70s can do the following over the D50; take better pictures, faster,

Wrong.
In many ways the D60 takes better pictures than the D70s especially for beginers and at higher ISO. If you want to take photos and view or print them the D50 is the way to go. If you want to seriously get into post processing and custom curves then buy the D70s.
The D50 uses SD cards which are the way of the future. The D70 uses CF which will be obsoleted fairly soon (in new cameras).
As far as faster in concerned well yes in some respects but how often are you going to use "faster"?
The D70s does have some features that the D50 does not have but they are features that tend to be only used by advanced photographers in specific circumstances. They are not features that most photographers use most of the time.
The two cameras are very different in size as well. YOU should pick them up and try them out and see which camera YOU feel more comfortable holding and using. The one you feel happiest holding is probably the one you will use the most regardless of features.

eyecandy

09-14-2006, 03:59 AM

Well the D80 is out of the question, I know its a better camera, but for the same price as the others I only get the body. I would rather put the extra $$ is better optics. This is really between the D50 and D70s.

K1W1 in what ways does it take better pictures?

K1W1

09-14-2006, 05:50 AM

K1W1 in what ways does it take better pictures?

Read the D50 reviews on DCResource and other sites like DPReview.
I think everybody accepts that the D50 takes better high ISO images than the D70 that is why you are seeing reviews of the new D80 saying that its high ISO performance is as good as the D50 (no mention of the D70).
The D50 was designed more for the person who wants to take a photo, transfer it to a PC or similar and print it with minimal post processing involved.
The D70 series is probably one of the last of the old school DSLR's that was really designed with the Pro in mind. With these cameras the photographer quite often needs to do a considerable amount of post processing in Photoshop or Nikon Capture or similar to get the image looking "just right". You can get stunning images with the D70 but you usually need to spend time in front of the PC to achieve that.

swgod98

09-14-2006, 09:53 AM

Canon on the other hand is providing far superior build quality, better image quality especially as ISO goes up, software that you'd have to purchase to get the same function from Nikon, and 5fps v. 3fps.

Besides being much bigger and heavier, I don't see that the 20D is "far superior" in build quality. Is there something I don't know between the two? I have them in hand, please let me know.

Image quality can very much be a personal thing. I've seen comparisons between the 20D and D80 and many of the images I felt the D80 looked better. The 20D required more PP and I don't want to PP every image just to make them look good. I agree, however that at higher ISO, the 20D wins hands down.

Personally, the D70s seems to have more features. I think that might be the best bet unless you're concerned about high ISO quality. I find it nice to be able to grow with your camera, rather than having to buy a new one just to learn more once you've conquered what yours has to offer.

Good luck.

eyecandy

09-14-2006, 08:50 PM

RichNY

09-14-2006, 09:19 PM

Besides being much bigger and heavier, I don't see that the 20D is "far superior" in build quality. Is there something I don't know between the two? I have them in hand, please let me know.

Image quality can very much be a personal thing. I've seen comparisons between the 20D and D80 and many of the images I felt the D80 looked better. The 20D required more PP and I don't want to PP every image just to make them look good. I agree, however that at higher ISO, the 20D wins hands down.

Personally, the D70s seems to have more features. I think that might be the best bet unless you're concerned about high ISO quality. I find it nice to be able to grow with your camera, rather than having to buy a new one just to learn more once you've conquered what yours has to offer.

Good luck.

The reason the 20D is far superior in build quality has to do with the fact that it is built from an ultra-rigid magnesium alloy. It has a shutter that is designed to shoot 100,000 exposures. I'm not suggesting that the any of the Ds are not build from high quality durable plastic, but they aren't built in anywhere near the fashion of a 20D. The D20 build quality is akin to the 200D build quality- which is far superior to the D50/D70/D80 build quality.

If you consider noise a part of image quality then the 20D has an advantage over the D80 when it comes to higher ISOs. This is compounded when you are not buying fast (2.8 or lower) glass and you need to shoot high ISO to get proper exposure.

The D70 has more features- Like what?

jcon

09-14-2006, 09:26 PM

I think you are over analyzing just a little,lol. I still believe the D50 takes just as good pictures. I think your main focus should be the lenses and flashes. Not the body, the differences are so minute and small. if the D70s feels better in your hands, I think that tells you what your decision should be. All else being equal, comfort and feel are big factors!

RichNY

09-14-2006, 09:50 PM

So the in-camera processing is better than what is found the D70s? Can changes be made within the D70s to achieve similar results? I thought I read a review that the D50 can achieve the same output (in-camera processing) as the D70s, and the oppisite is available by tweaking the D70s, right? Now between the two of them the difference in quality is very little, lower noise on the D50, sharper with the D70s, correct? The less noise found on the D50, is that in JPEG mode only, or does that include RAW as well? Can anyone explain this better? Other than the less noise at higher ISOs and better in-camera processing does the D50 have anything else better?

"If you don't see yourself wanting to PP your images you're going to be happier with the out of the camera images from the D50. Once you go to shooting raw it doesn't make a difference as you'll be tweaking with either camera. As part of your PP you can use software like noise ninja to remove some of the noise. While I'm not going to say don't shoot raw, remember that every hour spent PP is also an hour less you'll be shooting or enjoying some other form of fun."

Now how you guys are saying that the D70s will require post-processing, will this be required for all pictures? I understand we do not live in a perfect world and if you want perfection yuo have have to do it yourself, but I also do not want to have to speed alot of time tweaking the pictures for both cameras.

"You don't need to PP all your pictures unless you want them to look as good as if you shot them on a D50;) See above comment as to time."

I stopped at Ritz again and I spoke to the manager, she owns a D2x and D100, and does alot of shooting. I was talking to her about the price $899 for D70s kit and $949 for D50 + 18-70mm and she said to go with the D70s, because all around its a better camera, its capable of better pictures, faster to shot and make changes. I mentioned how you guys said out of the box the D50 is capable of better pictures, and she said that may be true, but if you explore and make adjustments to the D70s the pictures from the D70s will surpass the D50. And if you do alot of sports or fast action shooting the D70s is better because of the faster adjustments with the two dials.

"I don't think you are dealing with someone very knowlegable. She's not even looking at the right issues."

I also handled the two cameras both with the 18-70mm lens, and I liked the feel of both of them, the D70s did feel little better built/sturdier but that may just be due to the larger size.

"They both feel good. Once you get either one home and stop reading about statistics online, or comparing them side by side you will be happy witht the feel of either camera."

When shooting in Manual mode you adjust the aperture and shutter speed, will they be the same for both? Then in aperature priority or shutter priority you adjust the aperature or shutter only, correct?

"Yes, all of the above is correct"

It just seems that for the price the D70s sounds like the better choice if you are willing to explore and learn the camera, obviously Nikon feels its better since the D70s is more expensive than the D50. Plus the D70s has more room to grow, right?

"Wrong. You are going to get the same quality pics out of either camera. One thing nobody has brought up is that you are working within a budget. Photoshop costs approx. $600. There is a scaled down version for under $100 for photoshop elements although I can't tell you what's one can do v. the other. Learning all this stuff about cameras, apperature/shutter/ISO is a piece of cake compared to learning photoshop... which is a monster application beyond the likes of anything you've probably encountered. While you don't have to know every feature for photographic use, it still has a MAJOR learning curve. Where do you want to spend your time this coming year- learning how to shoot better pictures or spending time in front of your computer trying to make your D70 pictures look as good as a D50's? (While I believe this to be 100% the truth, I'm not suggesting that learning how to PP isn't a worthwhile endevor)"

Reading all these reviews helps but also makes it harder as well since this will be my first DSLR. I would rather ask the question now then after I buy one and its too late. Again I thank you for you help!

When you first started to think about buying a camera you were most likely thinking of the pictures you'd like to be taking. Have you noticed that you are now thinking less and less about photography and more and more about cameras and technology? Don't lose focus (as I found myself doing for a while) that the camera is only a tool and it should be about the fun of capturing moments and making art to enjoy.

To remind yourself of what's important go look at the S3IS pictures on the forum http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21728. They've been 'wasting' all there time taking beautiful pictures instead of debating minute camera details as in the DSLR forums. (Spoken as one of the guilty) Don't forget, they're shooting with a camera below the D50 on the food chain ($350) and I'd bet you'd be happy to buy a D80 and get pictures of that quality!

RichNY

09-14-2006, 09:55 PM

swgod98

09-15-2006, 05:38 PM

The D20 build quality is akin to the 200D build quality- which is far superior to the D50/D70/D80 build quality.

I think you're getting the D's mixed up...I've done that before too :D

RichNY

09-15-2006, 06:00 PM

I think you're getting the D's mixed up...I've done that before too :D
Right you are! One of them should have to give up the rights to the letter D and pick a new letter :D

tcadwall

09-29-2006, 08:55 AM

I don't know if this is a dead subject or not. I thought I would add my two cents and possibly repeat someone else since the thread is SOOOO wordy.

If I was purchasing right now, I would go d80 or d200. When I purchased my last camera I was choosing D70s or D50. Face it. Everyone is different. There were several factors that make me VERY happy that I chose the D70s (my choice was really limited between a D70s and a D50).

1) The ease for changing manual settings. I think that the Auto mode might be decent, but I almost NEVER use it - and after less than 2 weeks of owning the camera it has been that way. AND I was not an experienced SLR user either. I want the shot to look the way *I* want it. I am almost never in THAT much of a hurry that I want a camera to choose for me. That said I do use autofocus at least 85% of the time. ISO, Aperature, and Shutter speed are the things that I practiced with and experimented with for a while before I really was able to make a good first shot, but the D70s allows for more changes, quicker than the D50 does.

2) Using the flash in commander mode. Don't get hung up thinking that you will never use an elaborate flash setup. You might run into a situation here or there (and many will disagree that it should be almost always) where a direct flash or even aiming a flash at the ceiling / wall for a bounce will not be sufficient. You can take an SB600 (much cheaper than an 800) and hand hold it with your free hand while you shoot to get the angle you want, place it somewhere else, etc. It is VERY convenient to helping you be creative, as well as helping you eliminate shadows behind your subject while still getting the fill you want. The thing that this lighting system rocks at is taking MUCH of the guess work out, and providing you with a better first shot in challenging lighting conditions.

3) because of 1 and 2 you don't have as much noise to worry about.

4) fps is SLIGHTLY better.

Ok... And while I am ranting...

I shot a NASCAR race a couple weeks after getting my D70s. I was quite happy with my shots. Especially considering I was still trying to nail down the settings. I got some that showed the speed (with the background blur, and wheel blur) with the car sharp as a tack, and I got some that were a sequence of a spin-out (I got more frames than I would have been able to get with the D50). This being an evening race, after it was under lights, I got some shots of a wrecked up car, that was driving to the pits. while there is noise in this shot I was at a HIGH ISO and fairly high shutter, AND wide open fstop, zoomed at 200mm, and shooting through a fence. I was able to stop the car, show the damage, and have good enough focus that the "noise" is - as a friend said - "no big deal at all - it is a good shot"

I am sure that the D50 is a great camera. But for me I am glad that I went for the one with more "growth" room. Though I already find myself looking at the D200!!!! (the d70 will be a good backup camera)

just a couple more cents.

eyecandy

09-30-2006, 07:07 AM

tcadwall, well I did make my decision on the D50, so I guess the thread is kinda dead, although there is some good info in here. Some of the stuff you mentioned was covered breifly, but there is nothing wrong with bringing back up. :)

So far I am very satisfied with my D50. Changing the manual settings is not all the bad or time consuming, once you get the hang of it it goes pretty quick. I do not know hwo much I would use the flash in commander mode, but I guess I will not miss that feature ;)

The one thing I did realyl like about the D50 is the lower noise and better pics out of the camera, for me I found that to be better suited for my needs, besides there is alot of room to grow in this little camera, and when I need more I already have the extra $$ for the next one (savings from the D70).

Thanks for the reply!

kevikens

10-03-2006, 07:20 AM

I have all three of the cameras you mention, the d50, d70s and the new d80. The d50 will do just about anything the average hobbyist requires in a camera. I find it a joy to use with my old Nikkor AF lenses. The d70s autofocuses very quickly and I use it for photographing fast moving trains using those same lenses (my favorites are the 50 1.4 and the 35-70 2.8). I am having second thoughts about the d80. While it can do a lot of things I do not find it a better picture taker than the d70s. Unlike the d70s which gives me an honest 3fps I cannot get the d80 to shoot this fast no matter how I tweak the controls and there is no doubt that its viewfinder ( not the LCD ) is not as bright as the other two and with bright sunlight at your back there is a problem. Unless you plan on doing a lot of reworking images on your computer I would recommend the d50 or d70s and spend your money on some good lenses.

TNB

10-03-2006, 10:29 AM

I have all three of the cameras you mention, the d50, d70s and the new d80.
I just have to ask, but why do you own all three? Myself, I started with the D50 then jumped to the D200--one reason being that the D200 is faster.

kevikens

10-03-2006, 11:04 AM

The reason I wound up with 3 digital SLR's was not planned. For many years I photographed with Nikon slr's going back to the 1959 F. I never got rid of anything so kept to the habit of bulding up a collection. When I go out to photograph my interests, tains and transits, I learned very quickly that I could miss a fast moving vehicle if something went wrong with the camera in my hand, hence my habit of having a second camera always ready to take over. No railfan wants to hike a few miles to a good spot and then miss the shot of a lifetime as a GG1 or K4 or E8 goes whizzing past as you fumble with the camera. We learn fast, have that backup camera ready. Well, that explains the d50 my first digital slr and the later aquired d70s which autofocuses and transports faster. More shots in the time the train is in front of you. As for the d80 I wanted more megapixels for larger images-wall posters. Now when I go out I use the d80 for slower moving and static equipment and the d70s for really fast moving trains and trolleys. It's not what I thought I'd use the d80 for but mine is slower to autofocus and has a a slower fps so I use that when I have the time for a more posed than a grab shot.