Boy, do I need a lot of help

[Twism]

Hey guys and girls, I've Been reading through these forums for the last week or so and finally decided to register. Great forums, I've learnt so much around here in the last week, I feel like a professional photographer.... without any equipment - that’s where my questions come in :p

Originally, I was looking up advice on an ultra compact P&S, but after wondering around here I started getting interested in all the technical aspects of photography and decided I should look into getting something a bit better than a simple P&S.

After a lot of research, I picked out the cameras I'm interested in, but just want to clear a few things up before purchasing.

1. I am going on holiday shortly and was thinking of getting the IXUS 800 IS to take with me, for the simple reason that it is compact, and will probably produce a decent shot every time. At a later stage, after the holiday, I will look into getting something that will allow me to "play" around a bit more, i.e. Canon Powershot S3. Am I being stupid, or should I just buy the s3 upfront? Is the S3 too big to carry around everywhere?

2. Are the S3's manual controls flexible enough to allow me to learn and play around with? I.e. If I use the manual mode for all my shooting, and get the hang of it, will it make the transition to an SLR easier (If I one day decide to go that route).

3. Is it a good option to buy a cheap P&S (for when I need that style of camera) and buy an entry SLR instead of the S3? A good reason for doing this would be that the S3's manual controls are too limited to learn from (I think this might just be the case).

4. If the S3's manual controls allow a decent amount of flexibility (considering it’s a P&S) what about accessories, are there any accessories worth buying? Tele or wide angle lens? Filters? Etc. I'm trying to judge how far the S3 will take me, will it be a nice middle ground.

I have never owned my own camera but I am currently looking for a new hobby so this is perfect timing… hopefully :P

I’m sorry, I know a lot of this has been covered in other threads, I’m just asking from a different angle i.e. I don’t even know if I will enjoy this, I’m kind of looking for some advice on a starting ground that will allow me the freedom to learn, but at the same time not over complicate matters (similar to what I’m doing now :D )

I know this is a long boring post to get through, and you probably going to hate me too much at the end of it to give me advice, but any help would really be appreciated. :D

[BowerR64]

Looks like a good camera. I think you will find most of the higher end Canon cameras have VERY similar controls. Once you move into the manual mode everything looks the same on all the cameras. You have all the basic adjustments ISO, Shutter, Apature and then each adds its own things after that. Color adjustments, flash, ev adjustments and image quality.

If what you want is portability and usualy trips or family functions you are always close to your subjects that 4-6X is plenty. The things you will gain with the S3 are better macro, and longer zoom shots. A few other things here and there are different but if you get the IXUS 800 IS and give it some time to learn when you decide to get an S3 it will be an easy transition.

I think most of the people here that are serious about photography have both. One camera to always have in your pocket and one for everything else.

I decided i wanted some lens adapter options so i didnt go with the really small thin cameras. I prefer the A series wich isnt that much bigger, but it gives you options for filters, wide angle lens, zoom or what ever. Most of the really small thin cameras you just have whats in the box, no "hop ups"

[JTL]

Welcome aboard! I hope this helps! :)
1. I am going on holiday shortly and was thinking of getting the IXUS 800 IS to take with me, for the simple reason that it is compact, and will probably produce a decent shot every time. At a later stage, after the holiday, I will look into getting something that will allow me to "play" around a bit more, i.e. Canon Powershot S3. Am I being stupid, or should I just buy the s3 upfront? Is the S3 too big to carry around everywhere?I find that when traveling I carry both my S3 and my SD500. The S3 is a little unwieldy at the dinner table, for instance...


2. Are the S3's manual controls flexible enough to allow me to learn and play around with? I.e. If I use the manual mode for all my shooting, and get the hang of it, will it make the transition to an SLR easier (If I one day decide to go that route).In a word, yes. The only restriction is that certain shutter speeds can only be used at certain f/stops:

3200/sec. @ f/8.0
2500/sec. @ f/7.1, f/6.3, f/5.6
2000/sec. @ f/5.0, f/4.5, f/4.0
1600/sec. @ f/3.5, f/3.2, f/2.7


3. Is it a good option to buy a cheap P&S (for when I need that style of camera) and buy an entry SLR instead of the S3? A good reason for doing this would be that the S3's manual controls are too limited to learn from (I think this might just be the case).You will not find the S3's manual controls limiting. You may find it's inability to shoot at high ISO settings limiting, but only you can decide that for yourself depending on the type of shooting you plan to do.


4. If the S3's manual controls allow a decent amount of flexibility (considering it’s a P&S) what about accessories, are there any accessories worth buying? Tele or wide angle lens? Filters? Etc. I'm trying to judge how far the S3 will take me, will it be a nice middle ground.Once again, only you can decide. Typical accessories are a good set of NiMH batteries and a good charger, at least a 1GB high speed SD card, a protective case, an adapter (Canon or Lensmate), a clear glass or UV filter for lens protection, tele and wide angle converters if you feel you need them, a polarizer if you feel you need one depending on the type of shooting you plan to do. Personally, I wouldn't buy any accessory lenses or filters until you know what you want and why you need it.


I have never owned my own camera but I am currently looking for a new hobby so this is perfect timing… hopefully :PThe S3 is a great enthusiast camera. It allows a tremendous amount of flexibility and superior image quality at an affordable price. Taking the DSLR plunge is an expensive and not always rewarding experience. There are DSLR owners (me included) who are disappointed with their everyday results as compared to the S3 and S2.


I’m sorry, I know a lot of this has been covered in other threads, I’m just asking from a different angle i.e. I don’t even know if I will enjoy this, I’m kind of looking for some advice on a starting ground that will allow me the freedom to learn, but at the same time not over complicate matters (similar to what I’m doing now :D )

I know this is a long boring post to get through, and you probably going to hate me too much at the end of it to give me advice, but any help would really be appreciated. :DNo problem...you'll find a lot of people here who are happy to help!

[Twism]

Thanks guys, you've been a tremendous help. I have been tossing these questions around in my head for a couple of days now, but finally, the matter is closed. I will buy the IXUS 800 for my holiday (from the reviews, it seems to be a perfectly capable camera) and then once I’m back, I will look into an S3 type camera. After your comments, its seems to be exactly the type of camera I want.


Personally, I wouldn't buy any accessory lenses or filters until you know what you want and why you need it.

Haha, dont worry, I wont. Just asking to find out if I have that option available. Once I have had the camera for a couple of months and feel confident in my abilities, I would like the option of experimenting with something new (lenses and filters) without having to buy a new setup.

Once again, thanks a ton guys. When I get my cam I will come show off my incredibly unprofesional blurry smudge shots and ask for more help :p

[Wesan]

When I get my cam I will come show off my incredibly unprofesional blurry smudge shots and ask for more help :p

Welcome to the wonderful world of Canon! :D I'm sure with a Canon camera, even your blurry and smudgy shots will be perfectly blurry and smudgy! :p

Remember the old slogan? "You can with Canon - with Canon you can!". :cool:

I'm happy with my S3. :)

[BonjiB]

The s3 is a great tool to get started in photography. It features a full set of creative modes just like a dslr so making that transition later will be easy enough if you know how to use your s3 well. If you aren't sure you're going to go with the dslr route in the future then the s3 is just about the next best thing although a bit limited (as all point and shoots are) in the higher iso range. It's just a function of a smaller image sensor. So buy one, use it for a while and decide whether you're wanting enough to bump into dslr land.

Also. If you know pretty well you'll eventually want to jump to dslr then i'd really recomend just going ahead and buying one. Get a decent lens with a good walkaround focal length (say 17-50 before crop which is like 28-80 equiv for a rebel xt or 30d) to start and just get to know your camera. All dslr's (at least all the entry level ones) have an automatic mode where you just flip it to "green box" mode and snap away yet also feature all the creative modes for you to grow into. The larger sensor and consequently the far superior higher iso performance is the primary reason for my plunge into dslr land. It's just impossible to get really oustanding low light no flash pictures without a dslr. I don't know if that's the kind of shots you take but it's worth thinking about. Good luck!

[Twism]

Wow... I completely missed the last two responses. Thanks guys.


All dslr's (at least all the entry level ones) have an automatic mode where you just flip it to "green box" mode and snap away yet also feature all the creative modes for you to grow into. The larger sensor and consequently the far superior higher iso performance is the primary reason for my plunge into dslr land. It's just impossible to get really oustanding low light no flash pictures without a dslr.

You raise some very interesting points here. One reason that I would like to get a more expensive camera, is to be able to take a nice photos of anything I may want to, and after reading around a lot more, it seems that the S3 is very limited in low light conditions.

An option that's really starting to look good to me is buying a cheap P&S. Then reading up a lot more about my options as far as dslr's are concerned and making a decision from there. Let say for example, I decided to get the Canon 350d and a semi decent allround lens. Would I be able to learn easily from it, or will it be a bit rough considering im completely new to photography?

Could some one also please point me in the right direction as far as dslr cameras are concerned. There are a lot of questions I have, i.e. Is there such a thing as a good allround lens (or two), or will I need a different lens for every occasion - low light - macro - med zoom - action shots etc. I really know nothing :(

Thanks, once again guys, you've all been a great help thus far :D

[downtrodden]

Hey.. i'll throw my two cents in here.. I started out with a cheap APS camera and wanted to break into the digital realm. I decided on the S3 because i only had a vague understanding of manual controls (from using my mom's 35mm SLR) I wanted a camera with a wide range of manual controls. I wanted a DSLR but knew this would be too much camera for me to learn and for the cost vs. time it'd take to learn the camera i figured i would not have the patience.

After buying the S3 i am very happy with my purchase.. for what i need it's perfect segway from a beginner digital photography into DSLR later. I'd look at the high end P+S like the S3 and it's competition in the market. No offense intended here, but your many questions about DSLRs would lead me to suspect that a DSLR may be too much camera for you at the moment.

As far as your lenses question- i don't have experience with DSLRs but with the 35mm SLR, my mother gets by with two lenses. She seems to get by fine in most situations with it- so two lenses should do you fine. Her two lenses roughly equate to the 12x zoom of the S3. I'd give you the mm sizes of the two lenses but i don't have access to it right now : X

Hope that helps. I love my S3, and i think going with a cheap P+S then jumping right into the DSLR realm would be a mistake. I'd get something with at least a decent zoom and a broad range of manual controls to get used to manuals and also something that roughly resembles the shape and weight of a DSLR- just to get used to the DSLR style. IMO.

[BowerR64]

My dad has a mamiya 35mm and so far every canon digital ive seen has more control then that one. I mean most have ISO settings (film) shutter, and apature. The older film cameras didnt go much deeper then that. The SLR had adjustable flash and most of the P&S canons have those controls also.

Where these cameras go further is the bracketing, panarama, color adjustments, wb adjustments and the fact you can view the image right after the shot is the icing on the cake.

[truflip]

I bought the S3 not thinking of shooting at low light conditions.. but then again, its prolly the best daytime/all-around camera. its compact compared to others such as the H2/H5. the lens provide nice and sharp pictures. long zoom.. and to think of it its actually pretty compact.

Luckily my girlfriend was looking for a nice party/indoor camera.. so I researched for her and found the F30 the best choice.. I'll be honest, I did not read all the stuff you said, All i read was that you needed a camera and you were looking at the S3 and 800 IS.


1. I am going on holiday shortly and was thinking of getting the IXUS 800 IS to take with me, for the simple reason that it is compact, and will probably produce a decent shot every time. At a later stage, after the holiday, I will look into getting something that will allow me to "play" around a bit more, i.e. Canon Powershot S3. Am I being stupid, or should I just buy the s3 upfront? Is the S3 too big to carry around everywhere?
I havent found a camera that is perfect for outdoors, indoors and still compact enough. you really gotta look at your needs, how much % of the shots are you gonna be taking indoors/outdoors.. is this a party carry around camera? I read you say you wanna get into photography as a hobby, if thats the case I say get the S3 IS as your learning camera .. kinda liek ur gateway into the dSLR world.. when you just wanna go to dinner with wife/gf family/relatives , friends/people.. or some party or clubbing etc.. id suggest the F30, its got super low light performance.. do note that you might be taking low light shots 80% of the time (esp with compact/ultra compacts). this is according to MY PERSONAL experience. also, I dont find the S3 too big to carry around. I use a lowepro edit 110 and I can take it anywhere I want..


2. Are the S3's manual controls flexible enough to allow me to learn and play around with? I.e. If I use the manual mode for all my shooting, and get the hang of it, will it make the transition to an SLR easier (If I one day decide to go that route).
I just got into photography a month and a half ago and im still learning all the manual features the S3 has. I would say they are flexible enough that it doesnt give you headaches or make you read the manual for hours just to learn how to use it. I have never used a dSLR or SLR so I cant answer ur last question here.


3. Is it a good option to buy a cheap P&S (for when I need that style of camera) and buy an entry SLR instead of the S3? A good reason for doing this would be that the S3's manual controls are too limited to learn from (I think this might just be the case).
You could get the upcoming F20. I think the thing with dSLRs (i think thats what u mean when u say SLR) is that most of the picture quality comes from the lens. which costs hundreds of $'s.. also theyre more high maintence. and not as easy to carry around.. for example, u got the camera body, a xxmm lens, another xxxmm lens .. mac ro, filters,etc.. as for a PnS slr-like camera like the S3, u just need the camera n ur ready to go, u can get filters and macro lense wide angle etc also.. but they cost much less and can be above average picture quality and sometimes up to par with entry level dSLRs.. at least from what I've seen...


4. If the S3's manual controls allow a decent amount of flexibility (considering
it’s a P&S) what about accessories, are there any accessories worth buying? Tele or wide angle lens? Filters? Etc. I'm trying to judge how far the S3 will take me, will it be a nice middle ground. all u need is an adapter n u can get wide angle, macro, telephoto, filters etc... the S3 will be the perfect middle ground for u =) I think its more than a middle ground.


I’m sorry, I know a lot of this has been covered in other threads, I’m just asking from a different angle i.e. I don’t even know if I will enjoy this, I’m kind of looking for some advice on a starting ground that will allow me the freedom to learn, but at the same time not over complicate matters (similar to what I’m doing now :D )
dont be sorry =P another suggestion.. might wanna look at the S6000fd. it looks quite appetizing its supposed to come out next month.. maybe u can read around for more info on that.. I just like it because of its ISO performance. only thing is the lens is fixed.. and it doesnt retract like the S3.. so its pretty much the size of a small entry level dSLR..

I know this is a long boring post to get through, and you probably going to hate me too much at the end of it to give me advice, but any help would really be appreciated. :D
it was a long n boring post i gotta admit lol.. but i felt the need to help out a little.. =) i dont hate u tho haha but i hope my opinion and advice helps you even just a bit

[XaiLo]

as you can tell there are quite a few S3 lovers here and with good reason it's down right awesome for what it is... having an all in one that can go from supermacro to 432mm tele in less than a second is no joke. Here's one last thing to consider that no dSLR can do without bleeding your pockets dry. No offense anyone, but for around $400 you have a very capable camera to figure out what kind of photography you actually like. So when you do move into the dSLR arena there will be no ambiguity. you will be able to make sound decisions based on your new found experience. Finding out that you bought into a system that your not pleased with after the fact can be a hard pill to swollow especially if you have a wife. ;)

[JTL]

as you can tell there are quite a few S3 lovers here and with good reason it's down right awesome for what it is... having an all in one that can go from supermacro to 432mm tele in less than a second is no joke. Here's one last thing to consider that no dSLR can do without bleeding your pockets dry. No offense anyone, but for around $400 you have a very capable camera to figure out what kind of photography you actually like. So when you do move into the dSLR arena there will be no ambiguity. you will be able to make sound decisions based on your new found experience. Finding out that you bought into a system that your not pleased with after the fact can be a hard pill to swollow especially if you have a wife. ;)Very wise observation. Owning an S2/S3 really makes you ask a lot of tough questions when thinking about the DSLR world. You realize that even to get to parity with some things like the quality of optics and the reach of the lens with a DSLR setup would cost you thousands. It kind of puts things in perspective. Of course there are things that you can achieve with a DSLR that would be a real challenge for the S3, but for the hobbyist/enthusiast who's not shooting in "pro" situations, it's hard to beat the S2/S3's price/performance ratio.

[BowerR64]

I have some questions.

The SLR sensors look 4-5 times larger then the S3 yet they arnt that much more MP. Is it each little dot on the sensor is larger so it gets more light?

[JTL]

I have some questions.

The SLR sensors look 4-5 times larger then the S3 yet they arnt that much more MP. Is it each little dot on the sensor is larger so it gets more light?Yep...more light...more dynamic range...

[Twism]

OK, for a second time my mind is made up. I will get the S3, and maybe a ultra compact I can stick in my pocket (There are just some times that I would prefer not to have to carry anything around :) ).

And, I am going to stay out of all DSLR discussions on the internet until I do so. Because once you go in there, it takes the DSLR pros exactly 2 seconds to make the S3 sound like a piece of crap.

And to the guys that said "no offence".. none taken, because I was pretty much thinking the same thing, I just wasn't sure :D

Thanks to everyone, I feel very comfortable going for the S3 now.:cool:

[downtrodden]

Another thing, do the 20D and 30D and the Rebel XT have the cool color accent feature? If not- there's another selling point for the S3.. it sounds gimmicky, but it's actually really fun to play with and makes you feel more artistic..

Another "gimmicky" feeling item is the rotating display.. but there is no gimmick at all.. this is immensely helpful.. and is one of two reasons i went with the S3 as opposed to any other competing camera.. that and the usage of AA batteries. Canon should have a DSLR with a vari angle LCD... 2.5" that would be really nifty, and would probably be the DSLR i'd upgrade to. ((Assuming of coursre they didn't cut corners elsewhere, performance wise))

[BowerR64]

SLR people seem to think battery packs are more professional for some reason. Almost every SLR person ive talked to like battery packs. They also like CF memory wich i dont understand that either. Other then they have alot of CF memory on hand. Its not a good design memory and its big and risky.

[downtrodden]

I like the size of the CF cards (I'm visually impaired) but beyond that i can't comment on the dependability of those cards. The SD stamp cards are just small enough that it's tricky for me to get it in the slot and just small enough that if i set it down to swap it out, i may not see it again or may mistake it for something else.

I changed my card out and and put another in, i set the card that was in my S3 down for a second to put the new card in and put the old one in the case the new one came out of.. when i got the card in i couldn't find the old card. I eventually lifted my camera bag's lid and heard the tiny plastic hit the table and found it that way.

Other than that i think it's better to have a stamp sized 1 gig card vs a card several times larger that holds the same amount of memory. just me though.

I HATE battery packs. AA is soo much better and cheaper.

[sHanzek]

I've got the S2IS, which I love, and the A620, which was purchased as a smaller backup. My next addition will likely be *gasp* one of the little Pentax waterproof cameras for taking to the pool. Then hopefully the S4 will be out with all the cool features listed in the thread about missing S3 features...

Part of me would love to move up to the dslr world, the financial part says "you can't afford that!". Several people at work have the Rebel xt with 2 zooms, and I like them, but would miss the ability to use the back panel to compose shots. And their zoom lenses don't have the range of my S2, and don't have IS...

Steve
s2is/a620

[Wesan]

Since my previous post in this thread was maybe a bit more on the comic side, I wanted to post a serious note too. I can be a very serious guy too, you know... ;)


Owning an S2/S3 really makes you ask a lot of tough questions when thinking about the DSLR world. You realize that even to get to parity with some things like the quality of optics and the reach of the lens with a DSLR setup would cost you thousands. It kind of puts things in perspective. Of course there are things that you can achieve with a DSLR that would be a real challenge for the S3, but for the hobbyist/enthusiast who's not shooting in "pro" situations, it's hard to beat the S2/S3's price/performance ratio.

I agree with JTL. This is also why I went for a compact "super zoom" camera and the Canon Powershot S3 IS in particular. It's really very good value for the money.

I started to write a longer post for this thread, where I went more into detail explaining why I chose the S3 before a DSLR. But I didn't have time to finish the...novel! :D Maybe I'll make a new thread and call it something like "The cameras of my life"... lol :p

BTW - a DSLR may be better to use in low light conditions without a flash. But if you can use a flash (unless you're somewhere where you're not allowed to use the flash or don't want to use it for other reasons), you can still get good results with an S3. Of course the built-in flash has its limitations. But if you get a slave flash to use with it, and practise and experiment a bit, you can get even better results with the S3. I bought a slave flash for mine and I think it improves the quality of the photos a great deal. But it takes a while to get the hang of how to use a slave flash. I'm still learning myself. :)

Good luck with your S3! I'm sure you will be happy with it. :)