Snow/noise in F30 long exposure, normal or is my camera bad?

[okashira]

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=8CD13BF452B6486F
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=DA9856A25A691A6C

these are both ISO 100, 15 sec exposures. Sorry, they are not pleasing pics... just looking for somthing to quickly show the issue.

Look at them 100%, lots of white dots and 'hot blobs' as I call them.
they do show up to a lesser extent even at 3 seconds. and of course moreso at higher ISO. I also took some pics in pitch dark (covered the lens with some cards) and the hot pixels still show up.

I did expect better, esp from this camera at ISO 100. long time exposures at high aperature and low ISO are my fav. shots to take.

Is this normal for the F30, or should I look into the warrenty?

Would anyone else mind taking some low light and dim exposure 15 sec shots at ISO 100-200 so I can compare?

thanks guys.

[lemonzhu]

mine is the same as yours.
i think i'm abit disappointed of f30
it seems that they are all the same

[granite]

Hi okashira ..

I've got the same problem. even with the long exposure mode off and on night scene, I have one hot (white) pixel that shows up clearly (in the same spot) on all my night scene shots. On long exposure mode, anything from 4 and up, the problem just gets worse and worse with many scattered hot pixels throughout the picture.

There's a similar thread over at dpreview but it looks as if the people are just shrugging it off .. perhaps I would be able to get over it if I had none during reg night scene w/o long exposures, but thats not the case.

Are you thinking of having it "repaired" under warranty? I'm not sure that will help because I highly suspect that this long exposure problem is evident in all F30s. Just some have it to a lesser extent.

I can't return it to the retailer I bought it from at this point since I already cut off the upc code when I was taking advantage of the rebate.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=8CD13BF452B6486F
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=DA9856A25A691A6C

these are both ISO 100, 15 sec exposures. Sorry, they are not pleasing pics... just looking for somthing to quickly show the issue.

Look at them 100%, lots of white dots and 'hot blobs' as I call them.
they do show up to a lesser extent even at 3 seconds. and of course moreso at higher ISO. I also took some pics in pitch dark (covered the lens with some cards) and the hot pixels still show up.

I did expect better, esp from this camera at ISO 100. long time exposures at high aperature and low ISO are my fav. shots to take.

Is this normal for the F30, or should I look into the warrenty?

Would anyone else mind taking some low light and dim exposure 15 sec shots at ISO 100-200 so I can compare?

thanks guys.

[okashira]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I'm planning on doing the warranty 'repair.'
this camera has a couple other potential problems... left side image softness/bluryness, and a zoom that makes a slapping/knocking sound when initially zooming in.

will update how it goes.

other then that, can anyone else chime in?

[MindBender]

So far I haven't noticed any issues. I've shot a few über dark shots without issue. No lights, exposed at many ISO settings with 10-15 second shutter times to get sky and yard pics when there are no lights (I live outisde of town by a few miles, so it's dark). It's grainy because of the light issue... but I haven't noticed any hotspots.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1600/nightshot9zn.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1600/nightshot9zn.jpg)

f2.8, 1600 ISO, 15 sec shutter. (reduced size in Photoshop to be managable to upload, but didn't edit otherwise, original doesn't have any "hotspots" either).

I looked at some 100 ISO nad 400 ISO long exposures I shot... too dark to see anything... but they are consistantly dark... no hot pixels at all... just black photos.

It sounds, from everything you've described, that something might be wrong with the unit. Having focus problems, artifacts, etc.

Hopefully they'll fix things for you.

[okashira]

that picture is really nice, I like the effect. It must have been really dark, those settings are like a 4 minute exposure at iso 100!

any chance you can email me those iso 100 exposures ?

[MindBender]

I tossed them because they were pretty much just testing and useless as a photo. The exposure time on the camera isn't quite long enough to expose at 100 ISO in as dark as I was shooting. But then, there aren't a lot of cameras that will do it. You could probably do it with a SLR/DSLR using the BULB/manual shutter setting... don't know that a DSLR would like it though due to heat build up. It's VERY dark here at night. No city lights for about 6-8 miles and only one flood light on the road.

You can see the photos without me sending them by wrapping a towel around your head and closing your eyes really tight. ;) They were pretty much solid black, no hot spots or over saturated pixels evident. If you're really interested I guess I could reshoot some of them, but it's kinda pointless. hehe I was going to try shooting some long exposure shots just before dark though... well after sunset to see what I could come up with. I could probably post those if anything is interesting. :)

[okashira]

I tossed them because they were pretty much just testing and useless as a photo. The exposure time on the camera isn't quite long enough to expose at 100 ISO in as dark as I was shooting. But then, there aren't a lot of cameras that will do it. You could probably do it with a SLR/DSLR using the BULB/manual shutter setting... don't know that a DSLR would like it though due to heat build up. It's VERY dark here at night. No city lights for about 6-8 miles and only one flood light on the road.

You can see the photos without me sending them by wrapping a towel around your head and closing your eyes really tight. ;) They were pretty much solid black, no hot spots or over saturated pixels evident. If you're really interested I guess I could reshoot some of them, but it's kinda pointless. hehe I was going to try shooting some long exposure shots just before dark though... well after sunset to see what I could come up with. I could probably post those if anything is interesting. :)OK, thanks MindBender. Post away if you get the whim. :)

[granite]

okashira - please update as you progress in your repair efforts. thanks! i'll probably be looking at the same route.

[macca]

hmm i am actually having doubts about whether i will buy the F30 now.

the above average purple fringing i've seen on jeff's sample pics add to my doubt as well...

[okashira]

hmm i am actually having doubts about whether i will buy the F30 now.

the above average purple fringing i've seen on jeff's sample pics add to my doubt as well...
the purple fringing is well known.

i'm going to call fuji tomorrow, mabye i will end up with a completely fixed camera? dont give up yet.

[Zee]

I am not experienced at photography, but I took some photos using 15 sec exposure times at 100 ISO and 3200 ISO and highlighted the bright spots. If I did not know that I covered the lens I would think I was taking pictures of a cloudless night. You can really see the bright spots if you shut the lights of in the room so that you do not have any glare on your screen.
http://static.flickr.com/48/191530830_a70417c484_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/78/191530829_4923ab95e2_b.jpg
I circled some of the brighter spots, however in the original there are many more not black spots.

[MindBender]

the above average purple fringing i've seen on jeff's sample pics add to my doubt as well...

You know... I read about that in the reviews and I've heard people talk about it... but in practice... I haven't had problems with it. I was even taking pictures of trees against sunny skies the other day just to try to replicate the problem and wasn't able to generate hardly any fringe. If you're a photoshop user, it's not too hard to isolate a color fringe like that and negate it... there are even plugins that will automate the process. So, frankly, PF doesn't bother me one bit.

I tried covering the lens on my F30 with a black cloth and then my hand over that so it was completely dark. Shot several shots with different exposure settings up to and including 15 seconds. They were flat black like I'd just filled the canvas in Photoshop with black. Zoomed in and looked and tried to see anything but I couldn't. I notice that the viewfinder is a little grainy and off at times when it's live previewing... and when it does the after shot preview it showed some speckling... but when I viewed the image itself... it was completely fine. *shrug* Not sure why you guys are getting that behavior. Might be defective sensor or something... only other thing that could be different is the memory card. We all probably have different flash memory... maybe the F30 has some weird incompatability with certain types of flash that they haven't found yet.

[granite]

I am not experienced at photography, but I took some photos using 15 sec exposure times at 100 ISO and 3200 ISO and highlighted the bright spots. If I did not know that I covered the lens I would think I was taking pictures of a cloudless night. You can really see the bright spots if you shut the lights of in the room so that you do not have any glare on your screen.
http://static.flickr.com/48/191530830_a70417c484_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/78/191530829_4923ab95e2_b.jpg
I circled some of the brighter spots, however in the original there are many more not black spots.

Zee - this is exactly what I see. However, now that I've been pixel peeping so much, I have found a single white pixel that appears on all my images (regardless of night scene/longer exposures). Normally I would never be able to spot such a minute thing but I happened to find it while testing. Looks like I'll have to send it in to Fuji.

[sjseto]

Okay, this is what I have found.

I tried a 15 second exposure at ISO 100 in my windowless bathroom with the lights turned off and the door open a crack. I have pale walls and tile. I noticed the same speckling phenomenon as Okashira reported, and one stuck pixel.

I tried another 15 s exposure at ISO 100 with the door closed, and noticed the stuck pixel, but no speckling.

So it looks like the speckling is something that is inherent with long exposures with this camera - but is only noticeable when the conditions aren't completely dark (so trying to replicate the phenomenon by putting a cloth over the camera and taking a long exposure won't work).

I noticed neither the stuck pixel, nor the speckling, in any of my night shots that I took several weeks ago, although I never used an exposure longer than 3 s.

I am honestly not worried about it. The one stuck pixel (which is better than my F10, which had more) is easily removed with photo editing software. The speckling is only visible when viewing the image at full size on my monitor. When reduced to a reasonable viewing size (even 1600x1200, which is still large), I don't notice it at all. In prints, I doubt it would show up.

Okashira, if the speckling really bothers you, you might want to find a different camera. Zee, good luck with your repair.

Stephanie

[okashira]

Okay, this is what I have found.

I tried a 15 second exposure at ISO 100 in my windowless bathroom with the lights turned off and the door open a crack. I have pale walls and tile. I noticed the same speckling phenomenon as Okashira reported, and one stuck pixel.

I tried another 15 s exposure at ISO 100 with the door closed, and noticed the stuck pixel, but no speckling.

So it looks like the speckling is something that is inherent with long exposures with this camera - but is only noticeable when the conditions aren't completely dark (so trying to replicate the phenomenon by putting a cloth over the camera and taking a long exposure won't work).

I noticed neither the stuck pixel, nor the speckling, in any of my night shots that I took several weeks ago, although I never used an exposure longer than 3 s.

I am honestly not worried about it. The one stuck pixel (which is better than my F10, which had more) is easily removed with photo editing software. The speckling is only visible when viewing the image at full size on my monitor. When reduced to a reasonable viewing size (even 1600x1200, which is still large), I don't notice it at all. In prints, I doubt it would show up.

Okashira, if the speckling really bothers you, you might want to find a different camera. Zee, good luck with your repair.

Stephanie

I get a large number of white 'blobs' even on a 100% dark exposure ( deck of cards over lens)

[okashira]

Well, I just called fuji... the guy was amazingly rude. never got a chance to tell the camera's problems.

SO i called the place I ordered from, 6ave.com and now they are going to do a brand-new exchange for me.

[Zee]

I can only see the hot spots when at 100%, so I will keep using it to see if they show up in regular pictures at normal sizes. Also as to the memory card question, I am using olypus xd picture card H 1GB.

[truflip]

Hmm. and I was heavily considering getting the F30... can someone send me original size so I can print them out and test it on 4x6 paper? thanks!

[okashira]

Hmm. and I was heavily considering getting the F30... can someone send me original size so I can print them out and test it on 4x6 paper? thanks!
Even my white blobs wouldn't show up on a 4x6

[MindBender]

I guess I just got a good sensor... hrmm.

I'm curious though... since we're on the subject. I noticed that the front of the camera case near the trigger and mode selector (the goldish part) seems a little raised/loose between the case front and the frame. It's localized to the inch or so near the trigger and mode selector, the rest is tight against the silver frame housing. It's a minor thing, it's only raised about the thickness of the case, I can't see inside or anything... but it seems like it shouldn't be like that. Anyone else notice any problems? Wondering if I should bother calling in about it or just wait until it becomes a problem. Or maybe it's just like that and I never noticed it before.

[Moonpalace]

I get the same thing. There is space between the two metallic parts in the corner near the trigger.

[MindBender]

There is space between the two metallic parts in the corner near the trigger.

A little comforting knowing it's not just me. heh. Hopefully just a quirk, but might be something to watch. So far it hasn't gotten any worse... just a little "off".

[Zee]

I have the same seperation, however mine is only the thickness of a sheet of paper.

[p88l]

Come on guys... just make pictures and enjoy the camera :)

The manual states there can be speckling on the image on long exposures at high temperatures and that this is normal.

For example after just charging the battery or heavy use, mine has speckles on long exposures (from 3 seconds and up), but I tried later with a "cooled-down" f30, but still at room temperature of about 22 degrees and get a full black frame with no speckles.

Ofcourse there are differences between the samples, some do have this problem more than others, same goes for hot/dead pixels on your LCD for example and the edge sharpness of the lens.
If every f30 copy has to be perfect, it will cost at least 600 euro...

[MindBender]

Come on guys... just make pictures and enjoy the camera :)

Oh, I'm enjoying my F30... just had some concerns about the build. Doesn't mean I'm not having fun with it.

If every f30 copy has to be perfect, it will cost at least 600 euro...

That's complete BS. If they can't put out a product and guarantee that it will work, they shouldn't put it out at all. Defects happen (and raising the price wouldn't change this a bit) but to accept that there will be a bunch of lemons in every batch is unacceptable. I assume that if I'm giving $350 to a company for a handful of metal and plastic... it had better damned well work correctly.

For example after just charging the battery or heavy use, mine has speckles on long exposures (from 3 seconds and up), but I tried later with a "cooled-down" f30, but still at room temperature of about 22 degrees and get a full black frame with no speckles.

Yeah, all digital sensors succumb to problems with heat while running to some degree. I hardly think that 3 seconds is too long for the sensor in this camera to handle though. There are always variations in the build and such, just depends on how much variation and how much you are willing to accept.

$0.02