OK... so I got a Canon S3IS...

[DonSchap]

Yeah... I took the plunge :rolleyes: , after some serious examination and ideas concerning a "backup" camera. The beauty of the S3 is that it is a self-contained solution... so that if I break a lens... or the 20D gives it up... I'm still in... uh. hobby (I was going to say business, but not yet.)

Talk about small, though. The camparison between the relatively huge 20D w/BG-E2 and lens... and this S3IS... is worse than with the XT! :p

All this capability... packed into a tiny little body. It's definitely worth the $500... because it would cost you almost $4000-6000 for an EOS 30D, 28-75 f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and something else to cover the upper end 100-400mm f/2.8 IS to cover the range of this camera.(anything unlined doesn't have this.) The S3 is effectively at 36-432mm f/2.7-3.5 camera w/ IS! Which you could effectively carry on your belt (no kidding).

I am impressed with all this for the rather meager price tag. I'm telling you, guys, if we don't at least recommend this kind of camera... people will miss out. Truly... if you are not interested in "messing around" (high ISO - low light - extremely long glass & extremely close-up shots) with your photography... buying a dSLR is simply a waste. It may look cool... but, if not used fully... this puppy will be all you would need.

It weighs just over a pound with batteries in it. That's it... with lens and flash.

13281

I'll cool down later... but, take it from me, this camera is hot. :D

BTW: You shoot with this for a while, you'll know when it is time to upgrade to a dSLR. I'd say just about when you need to optically cut down the light and get that bright image under control. An f/3.5 minimum is pretty wide open... if you ask me.

[JTL]

So, Don...you've come over to the rational side where common sense rules. It's nice to see the dslr snob syndrome take a back-seat to common sense once in a while. The truth is, as you are about to find out, while there are things that a dslr can do that an S3 can't...there are things that an S3 can do that a dlsr can't...

[Vich]

... a "backup" camera.
Is that as a pro, doing paid events, or just having your body fail on a vacation?

Anyhoo - seems like a nice little camera for something you wanna have some (any) photos of but not wanting your DSLR along. Boating, camping, simple little day hike, or even an event you might like a few photos of but don't want to lug your gear to - say a relative's wedding where you plan on enjoying yourself most of the evening.

Also keeps a lot lower profile. Can't say I'd take my 20D on a surf trip to Mexico or rafting in Equator. That instant, IS enabled 430mm could capture some nice memories, albiet limited to perfect lighting situations.

[rawpaw18]

Don: You do realize the Tamron lens options for the S3 are very limited?:rolleyes:

[DonSchap]

I know its probably a lot to expect, but I have never had such shutter lag before. It's... it's... simply unbearable! The camera is simply doing far too much for the processor to handle, with a 2-second shutter lag. Good Lord, the space shuttle travels miles in 2 seconds! A race car... hundreds of feet. An ant... well... depends on how frightened.

The point is... two seconds between clicks? Give me a break. It's gone... adios! :( Sold! Lock, stock and barrel distortion (which it really did not have ;) )

Back to the EOS 20D and 5-fps. Back to life... in the fast lane. Ahh, now that's livin'! :D

[JTL]

I know its probably a lot to expect, but I have never had such shutter lag before. It's... it's... simply unbearable! The camera is simply doing far too much for the processor to handle, with a 2-second shutter lag. Good Lord, the space shutter travels miles in 2 seconds! A race car... hundreds of feet. An ant... well... depends on how frightened.

The point is... two seconds between clicks? Give me a break. It's gone... adios! :( Sold! Lock, stock and barrel distortion (which it really did not have ;) )

Back to the EOS 20D and 5-fps. Back to life... in the fast lane. Ahh, now that's livin'! :DDon, what were you doing that there was 2-seconds between clicks? I never had that experience, unless I was trying to make the camera do something that was clearly beyond the capabilities of ANY non-dslr...like shooting at night...with no real subject. And making comparisons between a $1200.00 camera and a $350.00 camera is just plain ridiculous, and what's worse is that you know that!

And, you also make a more-than-dubious comparison of burst rate mode on the 20D to the single-shot-to-shot mode on the S3. A dishonest charlatan's trick. Did you not learn how shoot in the (2 fps) burst mode on the S3? And, did you skip the part in the user guide about AE lock and focus lock? :D :p :D

----------------------------------------------

From Jeff's Review:

"Autofocus speeds were very good on the S3. Typically it took between 0.2 and 0.4 seconds for the camera to lock focus, with slightly longer waits at the telephoto end. In low light situations the camera uses its AF-assist lamp as a focusing aid and it works well, though focus times can exceed one second.
Shutter lag was not a problem, even at slower shutter speeds where it can sometimes occur.
Shot-to-shot speed was also excellent on the S3, with a delay of about a second before you can take another picture (assuming you've turned the post-shot review feature off)."
----------------------------------------

[BowerR64]

Don, what were you doing that there was 2-seconds between clicks? I never had that experience, unless I was trying to make the camera do something that was clearly beyond the capabilities of ANY non-dslr...like shooting at night...with no real subject. And making comparisons between a $1200.00 camera and a $350.00 camera is just plain ridiculous, and what's worse is that you know that!

And, you also make a more-than-dubious comparison of burst rate mode on the 20D to the single-shot-to-shot mode on the S3. A dishonest charlatan's trick. Did you not learn how shoot in the (2 fps) burst mode on the S3? And, did you skip the part in the user guide about AE lock and focus lock? :D :p :D

----------------------------------------------

From Jeff's Review:

"Autofocus speeds were very good on the S3. Typically it took between 0.2 and 0.4 seconds for the camera to lock focus, with slightly longer waits at the telephoto end. In low light situations the camera uses its AF-assist lamp as a focusing aid and it works well, though focus times can exceed one second.
Shutter lag was not a problem, even at slower shutter speeds where it can sometimes occur.
Shot-to-shot speed was also excellent on the S3, with a delay of about a second before you can take another picture (assuming you've turned the post-shot review feature off)."
----------------------------------------


He didnt bother to read the tips thread.

He should of just put the camera in video mode if he didnt want shutter lag. :o

[DonSchap]

Look, I'll admit that I did not diddle with the S3... to shut off the post-shot review. To me, that's a lot like more work when I'm trying compose and to GET THE SHOT. I want to raise the camera, sight the subject, frame, autofocus and fire! Again.. and again.. and again.

I had intended to make the S3 a "backup" to my SLR... but that was just wrong. I know that, now. I admit... the change between the two was a bit overwhelming. I did it during a working shoot... and it was torturous. Part of this was to address "SLR snobbery". Well, I am here to tell you... it's not snobbery. There are some definite positively undeniable returns to using a DSLR over a P&S.

All camera evaluations would do well to make this point loud and clear -> They don't mix. You get some really different play between the two and as I have found, it leads to serious disappointment and missed shots.

Make mine DSLR, from now on. When I pop that shutter... it's ready to go... right now! Shutter lag... it's just unaccepatable in my book.

IMO, "Ed Greene's" contention that "P&S"s rule... is just wrong... at this point in time. It may happen in the future... but not yet.

[JTL]

Don...no one would ever disagree with you as far as a dslr's superority in many many aspect's. Also, in handling and and other things, yeah...they don't mix well in the same bag. Also S3 is not a "backup" to a dslr.

My problem with your S3 slam is that the S3 is clearly NOT a dslr. It is not a BACKUP for a dslr. It is not marketed as a dslr or a dslr backup. No one (but you) ever expected to act and handle like a dslr. What it is is a class-leading ultra-zoom. It does what it's supposed to do very well. You are using what were your grossly unreasonable expectations to slam the camera.

You know, someone could easily make the argument that to get the S3's focal range with similar quality would cost you well over $5,000.00 in a body and lenses. Let me see...$5,000.00 or $350.00...hmmmm. That's a trade many are willing to make. And, even though it's a tired subject sure to draw the rabid-dog crew, quite frankly, in the results...I don't see anyone's $5,000.00-$10,000.00 worth of hardware making any better images in a lot of shooting situations. Speciallized situations, yeah, of course. But not for the shooting that 99.9% of the world does. So my point is, we all make trade-offs. What works for you may not work for anyone/everyone else. But don't slam the camera because you didn't learn to use it and had inflated expectations as well...

[DonSchap]

Don...no one would ever disagree with you as far as a dslr's superority in many many aspect's. Also, in handling and and other things, yeah...they don't mix well in the same bag. Also S3 is not a "backup" to a dslr.

My problem with your S3 slam is that the S3 is clearly NOT a dslr. It is not a BACKUP for a dslr. It is not marketed as a dslr or a dslr backup. No one (but you) ever expected to act and handle like a dslr. What it is is a class-leading ultra-zoom. It does what it's supposed to do very well. You are using what were your grossly unreasonable expectations to slam the camera.

You know, someone could easily make the argument that to get the S3's focal range with similar quality would cost you well over $5,000.00 in a body and lenses. Let me see...$5,000.00 or $350.00...hmmmm. That's a trade many are willing to make. And, even though it's a tired subject sure to draw the rabid-dog crew, quite frankly, in the results...I don't see anyone's $5,000.00-$10,000.00 worth of hardware making any better images in a lot of shooting situations. Speciallized situations, yeah, of course. But not for the shooting that 99.9% of the world does. So my point is, we all make trade-offs. What works for you may not work for anyone/everyone else. But don't slam the camera because you didn't learn to use it and had inflated expectations as well...


Look, perhaps you are extraordinarily enamored with the S3 IS... and that's great. I admitted that I made a mistake believing this camera was more capable than it was... then Mr. Greene went on his tirade, convinced that dSLR's were "dinosaurs" and doomed to the past. Well... it ain't so, don't ya know?

I also, like you have, made the argument about how nice it is to have the extreme 12x zoom range of the S3, but to be quite honest.. the way it races that lens back and forth during the zoom, it is difficult to precisely "frame" your subject. I, personally, found that exceptionally difficult to deal with, but I left it alone. Now, that you bring this "wonder camera" up, again... you had best check yours out. Go right ahead and try and get a tight zoom on a subject... you will see exactly what I am alluding to. Rock the front zoom switch back and forth... and struggle to acheive a nice frame. It's a 'rocket' from one end of the focal length to the other... but going for the middle ground can be a real test of your patience. What you usually wind up with is some kind of compromised frame, which you will have to address later with cropping... in Photoshop or some other post-processing. If that's what you enjoy doing, fine... but I have better ways to spend my time than to have to constantly crop the shots.

Cropping, by its very nature, reduces the overall resolution of a shot. Supposedly, you are taught to frame the shot BEFORE the darkroom, not afterwards. You wind up with a selection of various file sizes, because no one size will be the result of a shoot... except in its uncorrected state. So, here we have this 6.1 MP sensor... and we wind up throwing 10-20% of the "original image" away, because of the need to crop out a good frame from a bad one. Yeah... you are right, that's not what happens with a DSLR. Oh, you might have to crop a shot or two, due to framing difficulties, from time to time... but certainly not nearly every shot. Welcome to the world of the P&S... Crop & Save.

Look, I don't want to write the great American novel, here. All I am trying to say, which you seem to be missing, is that depending on the type of shooting you plan on doing, CAREFULLY consider your choice between a P&S or a DSLR. They are NOT even in the same league and won't be for many years to come. That, my friend, is truly my "expectation."

BTW... I did spend the $5000 for the glass. From this little experience, I feel it was well worth it. I don't particularly deal well with frustrating little cameras. :p

I used to take a lot of heat from speaking from reviews and not having actually used ALL of the items in question. Well, I stepped up and spent the $$$... and got all the items in question, did my comparisons and this is the end result. I SOLD IT! It was not very useful to me in a way that I needed it to be. It may not be exactly apples vs apples, but it is one man's opinion from this side of the screen. Enjoy. :D

[truflip]

the time i spent reading this coulda got me 20 nice shots from the S3.. :o

[DonSchap]

and about 30 "no correction necessary" shots from a EOS 20D. :p

Look, enjoy your S3s... it's now been relegated to a historical footnote in my camera ownership.

[JTL]

Don, I am no more "enamored" with the S3 then any other owner. It does EXACTLY what it's advertised to do and does it well.

And, Don, if you want to play the "what you seem to missing" game here's what you're missing:

It's the same as if you bought a sports car and expected to carry lumber in it. It doesn't make the sports car bad. It just means you bought the wrong car. Now, is that the car's fault or yours? Your ranting amounts to "the sports car doesn't carry lumber (something that it was never intended to do) so it sucks".

It kind of borders on trolling at this point...

[DonSchap]

Someone just doesn't like their pie messed with, right?

Look... expectations not met... end of story. S3... history.

Trolling? I pointed out the shortcomings I found with framing on the Canon PowerShot S3 IS. IMO, it's woeful. It has nothing to do with not being an dSLR. That's got to do with STANDARD functionality. That's not poking fun... I'm not making this up. It's true. Just admit it, will ya? Good lord. Trolling? I think not. It could seriously be improved on the S3. I found it wanting. You can live with it, I will not. For me it was totally problematic and again, disappointing.

Believe me, there will be plenty of opportunities for these cameras to improve on what they do. Until then, this episode of "Canon Fodder" is effectively finished.

[Clyde]

It's the same as if you bought a sports car and expected to carry lumber in it. It doesn't make the sports car bad. It just means you bought the wrong car. Now, is that the car's fault or yours? Your ranting amounts to "the sports car doesn't carry lumber (something that it was never intended to do) so it sucks".

It kind of borders on trolling at this point...

Actually, it seems to me like its worse than the lumber in his car. He rejected the camera for not doing something it actually was capable of doing, if he had read the manual so as to use it correctly.

More like getting mad at the hammer, because it won't drive nails with the claw end.

Clyde

[DonSchap]

Like I said... you like it... use it in good health. :D We can "hammer" that home.

[truflip]

and about 30 "no correction necessary" shots from a EOS 20D. :p

Look, enjoy your S3s... it's now been relegated to a historical footnote in my camera ownership.
i wonder how much better ur pics are.. most of the PP work i do are to "enhance" the pictures not to correct them, maybe u got a bad batch? :p :p heheheh

[DonSchap]

in regards to my shots... (silhouettes, huh?) Remember, lighting is... everything!

[XaiLo]

Don't go away mad Don... :confused: To bad it didn't work out for you Don and good thing you didn't pick up an S2 you really would have been peaved... lol

[BowerR64]

When i got the S3 i wanted SLR results from it too and i was not happy. I mean i gave $400. freakin bucks for it!!!!

[DonSchap]

Don't go away mad Don... :confused: To bad it didn't work out for you Don and good thing you didn't pick up an S2 you really would have been peaved... lol


Look, I'm not sore... I sold the S3 IS. It has a good home where someone "less demanding" will put it to good use, I hope. :rolleyes:

I find "JTL" a little disingenuous in believing that being satisfied with less than desired results is... acceptable. We're photographers by choice... we don't have to settle for less. I don't gather the crumbs Canon hands out. I find a solution to my issues... and deal with it. My solution here was ELIMINATION of the problem. Believe me when I say it has worked out for all parties concerned. Am I mad... no, just disappointed. It was supposed to be a 'quick fix' to an issue and it was no fix at all.

I wound up getting the SONY A100 Alpha to cover the spread... and that's working out just fine... speed, flexibility... and better framing... uses all my old glass. What's to be sore about? :confused:

If you are not using a DSLR... well, that's something to be sore about... HAHAHAHAHAHA :D

[BowerR64]

:confused: Isnt the sony alpha an SLR? wtf?

[steveLe]

If you are not using a DSLR... well, that's something to be sore about... HAHAHAHAHAHA :D

no money =(

anyways... i respect your opinion. you wanted something from this camera, and you didnt get it. solution: return/sell it. but really this camera is pretty good for its price and competitors in its range. compared to a real dslr, it probably wont match up. but, thanks for at least considering the camera =)

btw... that was a nice silhouette picture. which camera did you use to take that one?

[Wesan]

...I also, like you have, made the argument about how nice it is to have the extreme 12x zoom range of the S3, but to be quite honest.. the way it races that lens back and forth during the zoom, it is difficult to precisely "frame" your subject...It's a 'rocket' from one end of the focal length to the other...

You are aware of that it has two speeds for zooming, I hope? One low speed and one high speed. It depends on how much you push (or pull) the dial (hope I use the right words here - English is not my native language... :o ).

[XaiLo]

Look, I'm not sore... I sold the S3 IS. It has a good home where someone "less demanding" will put it to good use, I hope. :rolleyes:

...

What's to be sore about? :confused:

D

Hey Don, I was just jokeing..haveing a lil fun ya know. I couldn't agree with you more if something does not meet your needs then rectify it. It's your money and prerogative. I'm not mad at ya, life is full of lessons to learn. I have echoed your very sentiments. But I do appreciate what it does well and am willing to live within those confines. But that's me. Even when I make up my mind about a dSLR I don't see myself getting rid of it or considering it a back up. It is what it is an ultrazoom that can take some cool pics.


If you are not using a DSLR... well, that's something to be sore about... HAHAHAHAHAHA :D

Not really, that market is also full of compromises all over the place and for a lot more cash. This one is worth repeating "and for a lot lot more cash", the S3 is a nice place for newbs to get their feet wet and access their future needs. That's all I'm saying. Anywho it's been real ;)

[RichNY]

I don't gather the crumbs Canon hands out. I find a solution to my issues...

This wouldn't have anything to do with Tamron introducing their first P&S at Photokina, would it? ;) :D

[JTL]

You are aware of that it has two speeds for zooming, I hope? One low speed and one high speed. It depends on how much you push (or pull) the dial (hope I use the right words here - English is not my native language... :o ).Don didn't bother to read the user guide...

[JTL]

Look... expectations not met... end of story. .Once again, I have to point out (sorry if it's becoming repetitive but someone has to say it):

1. Unreasonable expectations
2. You didn't even bother to learn how to use the camera

Using those same standards, your 20D would suck as well...:p

Oh, I forgot to mention...I bought a B&W TV but it didn't meet my expectations because none of the programs showed in color. Plus the screen was too dark. Someone told me about something called the brightness control and that the info I needed was easily available...even in the user guide and that the control was right there on the front, but I didn't feel like "diddling" with it and sold it. Would I be "disingenuous", as you put it, Don, if I didn't feel this way? Ouch! That hurt! :p :p :p

[DonSchap]

no money =(

anyways... i respect your opinion. you wanted something from this camera, and you didnt get it. solution: return/sell it. but really this camera is pretty good for its price and competitors in its range. compared to a real dslr, it probably wont match up. but, thanks for at least considering the camera =)

btw... that was a nice silhouette picture. which camera did you use to take that one?

The silhouette image is really from my older Minolta Maxxum 7000 35mm-film SLR, which is probably from before many of the members on this forum were born (1985). The image was taken in 1990. I used a Minolta AF50mm f/1.7 lens and the nude model was placed in dozens of different poses until I finally came up with this one. I wanted something completely different than had not been done before, by any other student. This particular pose allowed for a lot of modesty, an air of mystery and some fantasy... all with the use of a simple spotlight.

Remember: Seconds of inspiration plus hours of perspiration... the key to good work.

As for the rest of you... the PowerShot S3 IS is a great P&S camera... but it just doesn't do it for ME... just me. I never felt comfortable enough with it to use it effectively. My experience, for the most part, has been SLR. It works the way I am used to and therefore turns out the work I expect. (I really hate surprises... I really do. :mad: )

I suppose if I had spent hours and hours pouring over all the different modes that it works in, I may have eventually come to terms with it... but I'll be honest... I don't feel like wasting that kind of time relearning basic photography practices with a different kind of camera. It's not being lazy... I have something that works most excellently as it is. I think I'll stick with it... and despite JTL's difficulty with that... it's my life, mister... get used to it. ;)

BowerR64, this link is for you... for a bit of explanation. SONY A100K (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22557) Alpha

The bottom line, as it always is...

GET THE SHOT!

[JTL]

Don...you know I'm just having some good old fashioned "forum fun" wit'cha...

But, I do get your point about having to learn the thing. Coming from a 20D and the significant time you had to invest in it, then getting the S3 and finding the time investment is similar, but the performance was not what you needed it to be for your shooting style and requirements. For you, the time/value/performance drivers were not there. In short, why invest the time for less performance? That side of the equation makes perfect sense to me...especially since you already owned the 20D. But, for others who don't own anything, the choices get tricky...

[BowerR64]

Don...you know I'm just having some good old fashioned "forum fun" wit'cha...

But, I do get your point about having to learn the thing. Coming from a 20D and the significant time you had to invest in it, then getting the S3 and finding the time investment is similar, but the performance was not what you needed it to be for your shooting style and requirements. For you, the time/value/performance drivers were not there. In short, why invest the time for less performance? That side of the equation makes perfect sense to me...especially since you already owned the 20D. But, for others who don't own anything, the choices get tricky...


Whats confusing is how his first post he loves the camera then he turns on it a few days later. :confused:

[JTL]

Whats confusing is how his first post he loves the camera then he turns on it a few days later. :confused:I'm just guessing that Don probably missed some shots and got frustrated. He didn't invest the time to tweak the camera or learn the tricks as most of us do...so he set himself up for a big disappointment. He's already got a dslr, so he figures "why bother?" I totally understand the situation.

[downtrodden]

Guys what it seems to me is that Don was trying to be just as inflammatory and rediculous as Ed Greene was with his dinosaur comment. Don even made direct referance to Ed's comments and stated he had to chi8me in. This is fine.

I also understand both sides of the coin here. Having come from SLR into digital and started with an S3 i can say this- I love my S3. It has its strong points. In normal shooting conditions (out doors non- low light) I'd rather have my 350 dollar S3 than a DSLR with the glass to match the range of the S3. For me, getting a DSLR was just not a viable option. Now if i ever need something that can shoot faster and shoot in low light or specialized shooting environnments, I will be wishing I had a DSLR. They both have their upsides and downsides and frankly one is neither better nor worse than the other. just more or less fitting for the individual's needs than the other. Anyone who claims otherwise is kind of.. retarded.

With that said, i may be posting in the which camera to buy forum in a few months, looking into going DSLR. But i will always love my S3. And until that happens, i'll try to avoid frustrations by not trying to compare a PnS to a DSLR.

Can we please let this thread die now? It got on my nerves. Had to chime in.

That is all.

HAPPY SHOOTING!.

[dhbailey]

Very well-said Downtrodden!

I just got my S3 on Friday to complement my 20D for those times when lugging the heavier body and extra lenses is too much.

And while I did run up against some shots that my 20D would have gotten at a football game (my son's the marching band drum-major) which the S3 wasn't able to capture, I found that I love my S3 and will train myself to think in two different modes, depending on the camera I'm holding at the moment.

I will keep repeating (as everybody should) the S3 is NOT a dslr, the S3 is NOT a dslr, the S3 is NOT a dslr, and I will learn and remember what it can do and not complain about what it was never intended to be able to do.

The S3 is a terrific camera, and I did a lot of research to find my ideal second camera.

Viva la S3! :)

[XaiLo]

In all fairness to Don, the shutter lag is annoying not as bad as the S2 but it still has a ways to go. Would be nice if ISO 800 were usable. low light kool for stills but hard on anything else unless your looking to create effects. But for the rest of the time there's just something about those great pictures it takes for $439 (my cost). It's still a versatile camera for the money. I'm looking at about, well let's just say more $,$$$$.$$ than what I want to think about for a dSLR. and I won't be able to match its range in a single lens. :(

[DonSchap]

There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home... "click"-"click"-"click"... that was with a 3-fps setting on a DSLR, not tappin' your shoes together... waiting for the shutter to clear. In P&S language, it's more like: "click"... dum dee dum dee dum dum... "click"... I was walking through park one day... "click". I think you catch my drift, here.

As you have implied, camera use is strictly personal... which means, even the "downtrodden" have a choice in the matter. I believe that my choice was to choose not to be bothered with all the nuances of the P&S limitations. I gave it a good run... wound up disappointed by comparison and will not make the same mistake again. Relying on a virtual gun for the same results as real gun makes for some serious issues. In one posting, I made the anology that "it was like bringing a knife to a gunfight." I still feel the same, to this day. I did not fully appreciate what the Canon PowerShot S3 IS could NOT do... but, I did find out.

Although some have stated they will use the P&S as a "tiny backup" to their full-scale camera systems, I personally found this choice truly aggravating. There just wasn't enough flexibility to the P&S to make certain I could still successfully GET THE SHOT.

Yes, you have to think in two camps... 1) Portable and Slow... 2) Dependable Selectable Lensing Rapid-fire.

This can be difficult and when I'm in a situation where it's comin' attacha at full speed, it won't be the P&S that saves the day. In the normal world, you will probably do well enough with the sub-$400 choice. But when a dynamic situation occurs, you reach for the big gun... and if it isn't there...



YOU MISS THE SHOT! :eek:

Personally, I find that intolerable. :mad:

[JMBZ71]

Don... I came to a similar realization when I recently purchased a TZ1. I'm such a DP Newb that I assumed I could get good action shots with a P&S. Maybe I haven't "diddled" with it enough yet to realize it's full potential. Also, I'm not comparing the TZ1 to the S3 but I think the anecdotal analogy's valid.

I realize the TZ1 is nothing more than what it's designed to be: A pocketable ultrazoom w/IS that will allow me to get shots that I couldn't get in the past because I can't carry a big body/big lens camera around while I'm busting through heavy cover with my Beretta O/U.

I've seen most of the shots posted on this forum by S3 owners and IMHO, many of them are very impressive. Obviously P&S's are quite capable of taking very nice still life shots, but I agree with you when it comes to action shots, there's no substitute for an SLR. Also, thanks to you and many others on this forum for your advice on DSLR lens options. I'm taking notes for that day when I go DSLR.

JMBZ71 :)

[JTL]

In P&S language, it's more like: "click"... dum dee dum dee dum dum... "click"... I was walking through park one day... "click". I think you catch my drift, here.Don...broken record time. While the shutter response time and the shot-to-shot time on almost any dslr will always beat the S3, there are things that you could have done to improve the shutter lag and shot-to-shot time on your S3. You CHOSE not to do those things. You made a choice to make the camera perform worse than it's capable of. Some of the "unbearable" performance you brought on yourself. Therefore, your evalution is essentially worthless to the general population here. So, why bother sharing it over and over and over and over and over again? The rants of someone who didn't learn to operate the camera are of no use to anyone, except maybe you...so, you'd be better off talking to a mirror...instead of going in the same pointless circles here and illuminating nothing and offering not one shred of worthy information for anyone.

Wait...I hear the masses now..."Oh, Don, please enlighten us about the camera that you never learned to use". :rolleyes:

Your last post proves you're just trolling (Jeff, I hope you're watching). Troll...!

Although some have stated they will use the P&S as a "tiny backup" to their full-scale camera systems, I personally found this choice truly aggravating. There just wasn't enough flexibility to the P&S to make certain I could still successfully GET THE SHOT. Once again...broken record syndrome. That is a totally unresonable expectation. Round and round and round we go. Maybe instead of "Get The Shot" you should start practicing "Get The Point". (Yowza! That smarts! :p )

This can be difficult and when I'm in a situation where it's comin' attacha at full speed, it won't be the P&S that saves the day. In the normal world, you will probably do well enough with the sub-$400 choice. But when a dynamic situation occurs, you reach for the big gun... and if it isn't there... No one disagrees with this. And no person with half-a-brain would expect a P&S to be suitable for that type of situation. Do you think we're stupid and you're the only one to have this great revalation?

Wait...I hear the masses now..."Oh, Don, please enlighten us. We don't know the difference between a P&S and a dslr." :rolleyes:

GET THE POINT!

[BowerR64]

But the S3 shoots at 30 FPS, 60 if you have the setting right. :p

[DonSchap]

I forgot the MOVIE CAMERA mode... that's exactly what I want for high resolution. Stereographic sound enhanced photography. Does it make copies, too?

Okay... where do we stand, "JTL"? The DSLR... all you could hope for

and the P&S... hope is all could want for... as in "I hope I got that one!" ;)

Have a good day, case closed. :p

Thanks "BowerR64"... you movie-mogul, you. ;)

"I'm ready Mr. DeMill... for my close-up shot." :D

[JTL]

Have a good day, case closed. :p No, Don. I'm sorry...case not closed. There's just one more thing...while you're busy changing your lens...you've

MISSED THE SHOT!
:p :p :p

[truflip]

lol u guys are hilarious.. man oh man.. we need a laughing emoticon :D :D :D

[Newfie]

No, Don. I'm sorry...case not closed. There's just one more thing...while you're busy changing your lens...you've

MISSED THE SHOT!


I agree with certain points of both of your arguments...but JTL, that was a good one!:cool:

[XaiLo]

No, Don. I'm sorry...case not closed. There's just one more thing...while you're busy changing your lens...you've

MISSED THE SHOT!
:p :p :p

Dang JTL, I thought this was ending so I just left that one alone. LOL

[DonSchap]

No, Don. I'm sorry...case not closed. There's just one more thing...while you're busy changing your lens...you've

MISSED THE SHOT!
:p :p :p

I kind of figured it would come to the actual "changing of the guard". The fact is... preparation with the 'right lens' is half the battle in any photograph with a DSLR. When I'm doing an airshow, where planes are moving at 600 mph, I'm not to worried about going to wide angle. Actually, limiting the zoom is more trouble in that requard with the S3. You could all too easily zoom to an "ineffective range" while trying to follow the aircraft on a high speed pass. You tell me what good that is... not much in my estimation.

I have to ask, how often are you streaking from 432mm to 36mm? Where do you need that on a regular basis?

The normal (more than 50%) "walk around" focal-range usually occurs between 28 and 80mm, easily doable with the SLR with only one lens. We actually did an online poll (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19641) ( <- click here ) on what everyone who participated used on a regular basis. Regardless, you can find this type of discussion throughout the DCRP, as it takes place nearly every single day. JTL, you have to know we've been at this a long time, now. This argument has aspects to it that lean one way or the other. There is no win... and the arguments are strained. I, personally, do not want anyone "tricked" into thinking a P&S is equal to the enormous power of a DSLR. It just isn't, Plain & Simple.

The Canon PowerShot S3 IS is amazing convenience, hands down... and that was never at issue, as far as I can recall. What is at issue is the camera's "overall response"... "shutter-flap"... "accurate framing" and "low-light response". If I have to slap on another lens on my DSLR, it's for a darn good reason and my choice for the shot. My camera is still high-speed and responsive. The lens assures a smooth transition to frame the subject by my positive fingertip control and not some ongoing fight with an electronic switch... which is racing the hidden lens in and out. That kind of loss of control has a cost of about 10-20% of the image. It real is "powerless zoom" instead of "power zoom", which was my feel for it, because you are giving something up to have it... solid control. :(

Being a photographer is YOU positively controlling your equipment for a photograph, not the equipment controlling you. Many hours are spent by a good many people to GET THE SHOT. One shot... not a snap-shot, but THE SHOT. Lighting, lensing, positioning and timing... it's all part of "the picture".

So, what are you telling me... SNAP SHOOTER or Photographer? The choice... is YOURS! As the ancient Grail Knight said in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade : "You must choose... but choose wisely." :cool:

[TEMPA]

Don I suggest you take the time to return your original post and re-read it -

The beauty of the S3 is that it is a self-contained solution... so that if I break a lens... or the 20D gives it up... I'm still in... uh. hobby

You bought it as a back up. I assume that unless your 20D did fail the S3 would stay in the bag. Therefore it would be unlikely that the (as you claim) 2 sec shutter lag would ever effect you. I also point out that no-one else has suffered from this degree of lag and you admitted you had not even bothered to learn about the camera.

Talk about small, though. The camparison between the relatively huge 20D w/BG-E2 and lens... and this S3IS... is worse than with the XT!

This is a convenient go anywhere camera with outstanding performance.

All this capability... packed into a tiny little body. It's definitely worth the $500... because it would cost you almost $4000-6000 for an EOS 30D, 28-75 f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and something else to cover the upper end 100-400mm f/2.8 IS to cover the range of this camera.(anything unlined doesn't have this.) The S3 is effectively at 36-432mm f/2.7-3.5 camera w/ IS! Which you could effectively carry on your belt (no kidding).

Amazing isn't it? A $500 camera comparable to a package you claim would cost $4000-6000. But no-one would expect the $500 camera to exactly match the $4000 camera abilities. If you did you would be a fool. It is comparable but not the same. Big difference....

Truly... if you are not interested in "messing around" (high ISO - low light - extremely long glass & extremely close-up shots) with your photography... buying a dSLR is simply a waste. It may look cool... but, if not used fully... this puppy will be all you would need.)

Excellent recommendation Don. You said it yourself - If you are not interested in messing around, the S3 will be all you need. Horses for courses. If you want an all-rounder that is cheap to buy, easy to use (if you bother to take the time to learn...) and takes absolutely fantastic pictures, the S3 is perfect.



I'll cool down later... but, take it from me, this camera is hot.

Yep you are absolutely right. It is. We already know that.

Now, since you longer have the camera, and you no longer recommend it, shouldn't you move along to the dslr threads?

You really could be considered to be trolling...

TEMPA

[Newfie]

^^^^Well Said Tempa

[truflip]

shall we start a "DonSchap Bash Thread" ? im sure we'd get a WHOLE lot more views, replies, bashes etc.. than we ever did with the "JTL Bash Thread" :p

[DonSchap]

You really could be considered to be trolling...

TEMPA

What I am considering is that I have an experienced opinion (something novel, eh?) and I have made a case for a more concentrated examination and trial of the Canon PowerShot S3 IS. Posting my concerns are what this forum is all about, thank you very much. Sure, I was excited when I got my hands on it... not truly appreciating its shortcomings... and I have since amended my return of the facts. Try something fresh... read them and learn something. It's for your benefit... I know I have already gotten my fingers toasted by believing certain things.

If the S3 IS brings you joy... then fare well, good photographer. If it doesn't meet your needs... well, welcome to the club. :(

This thread says enough to make a clear, INFORMED case for a more balanced approach. Besides, I started it... and if this is the last post concerning it... so be it.

The SHOTS awaitin' :rolleyes:

[TEMPA]

Try something fresh... read them and learn something. It's for your benefit...

It's not for my benefit mate.

I already did my research before I bought my S3. I already knew what it was capable of, knew its good and bad points and knew that it suited my needs perfectly. So I bought it.

I didn't expect it to be comparable to, or even to act as a back up to, a DSLR. They are worlds apart and someone with your experience should have known that.

For what it is, and for what it's intended purposes are, it is an exceptionally good camera. Trying to get it to do things out of it's scope of ability is obviously going to result in disappointment. I can't believe you wouldn't have known that prior to purchasing it...

TEMPA

[DonSchap]

Whats confusing is how his first post he loves the camera then he turns on it a few days later. :confused:

A moment of thread correction...

I bought the S3 IS back in June... if you look at the last edit time on the initial post... you will see it is 28 June 2006. That's no mistake... that's how long it has been. I know the posting seems immediate, but it is not at all. I sold the S3 last weekend, 9/16/2006, because I was so dissatisfied with the results I had personally gotten using it at the end of August. Check this link -> REASON WHY! (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23298)

Each time I used it, something new became a problem... be it shutter lag, framing issues with the zoom speed, LCD recovery time, not shutter-releasing when I wanted the shot, refocusing on things other than the subject... cripes, the list was growing and I was getting more and more aggravated.

So the S3 and I sat down and we came to a mutual parting of the ways... it's all good. LOL :)

[DonSchap]

It's not for my benefit mate.

I already did my research before I bought my S3. I already knew what it was capable of, knew its good and bad points and knew that it suited my needs perfectly. So I bought it.

I didn't expect it to be comparable to, or even to act as a back up to, a DSLR. They are worlds apart and someone with your experience should have known that.

For what it is, and for what it's intended purposes are, it is an exceptionally good camera. Trying to get it to do things out of it's scope of ability is obviously going to result in disappointment. I can't believe you wouldn't have known that prior to purchasing it...

TEMPA

Look, for the ump-teenth time, I believe in testing the item I am commenting on. The S3 IS offered a rather relatively cheap solution to a quasi-backup. Unfortunately, it does not fit the bill in that capacity, but I did give it a few shots at it.

Admittedly, it has its moments... but when I really needed it to function quickly and without question... BUZZZZZZ... nope. Believe me when I say I put the puppy through its paces with over 2000 shutter releases. Sometimes I had a subject in the image... and sometimes... I had just a background. That's hard to explain to someone without first hand knowledge. Canon certainly isn't going to advertise it. And you guys... giving me grief about it... well, you are willing to accept this COMPROMISE, so the argument falls flat.

Enjoy your S3 IS or S2 IS... it was your choice... it won't be my last. :cool:

[JTL]

Look, for the ump-teenth time, I believe in testing the item I am commenting on.Now who's being disingenuous? You never "tested" the S3, Don. I doubt you cracked the user guide. Because if you did, you would have known how to use the camera...which you didn't. So, your point is that you have no real point. No real argument. No real nothing. A lot of hogwash hearsay based on your inability to correctly use the camera. As my pal HAL said: "It can only be attributable to human error..."

[DonSchap]

Now who's being disingenuous? You never "tested" the S3, Don. I doubt you cracked the user guide. Because if you did, you would have known how to use the camera...which you didn't. So, your point is that you have no real point. No real argument. No real nothing. A lot of hogwash hearsay based on your inability to correctly use the camera. As my pal HAL said: "It can only be attributable to human error..."

Certain aspects of camera operation should not be "required reading." With that said, of course I read the manual. I had to figure out how to get the film in the darn thing... :p :D Oh, and it was a struggle, as you well know :p

The other stinker was "left-handed operation" :eek:

BTW, this is my solution to convenience... take it all! I mean, what else do you do with an Avalanche's five-enclosed-feet of lockable trunk-space? Hint: Fill it with camera gear!

[truflip]

errmm.. ur equipment needs a truck to bring around? wow.. thats some nice stuff but a bit too much to take-around-everywhere :(

mines is below (minus the tripod)
http://www.dicais.com/var/goods_images/p1300/edit110-500.jpg

[JTL]

I had to figure out how to get the film in the darn thing...Now that's funny! :D :D :D It's good to go to bed smiling! :)

Tomorrow then? :D :p :D

[DonSchap]

errmm.. ur equipment needs a truck to bring around? wow.. thats some nice stuff but a bit too much to take-around-everywhere :(

Not nearly as convenient as popping your S3 IS in your pocket or fanny-pack, but I really can...

GET THE SHOT, when I arrive. ;)

Night, JTL... laugh it up, pal!

Tomorrow, barring if it rains and the creek don't rise... I'll snap one of the rigs getting some sunshine... that should make you smile. :D

[Wesan]

BTW, this is my solution to convenience... take it all! I mean, what else do you do with an Avalanche's five-enclosed-feet of lockable trunk-space? Hint: Fill it with camera gear!

Avalanche? I thought the perfect car for a photographer would be a...Ford Focus! Pun intended... :D

[XaiLo]

Hey Don, did you get that last shot with your S3? I don't see room for anything else...memories of the way it used to be...scattered pictures...LOL ;)

[DonSchap]

please direct your attention to the little canvas Minolta Maxxum-bag, sitting on the top cover. In that, lives the SONY A100... and it is what took the image. The S3 IS is long gone, as I have stated, hopefully living an active and happy life in the hands of another. :D

[DonSchap]

Did "BowerR64" start another run with the same title? :confused: That's novel... I think.

[Wesan]

Did "BowerR64" start another run with the same title? :confused: That's novel... I think.

Maybe he happened to clone it and did some PP P&S with PS CS and a Canon PS S3 IS? :p :D

[BowerR64]

I couldnt just sit here and let you get all the attention.:rolleyes:

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24185
(http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24185)

[DonSchap]

Returning to the Canon S3 IS ... as a solution to American tourists to Europe.

We all have experiences we would like to share ... and some we would probably rather ... uh, forget?

RichNY: If you had to go back, knowing what you know now ... which camera makes it "across the pond?" :D