Rechargeable Batteries

[csanantonio]

I have just recently bought the Sony H5, and find it a very wonderful camera. I have not had any troubles with it thus far. My only question is about the batteries, mainly, the battery charger. It says in the manual that it takes about 6 hours to charge. I am totally fine with this, since I can charge it overnight. But my problem is, what if i charge it over 6 hours, lets say 8 or 9. Will that cause the battery to leak, or any other kind of damage? BTW, I am using the battery and charger that came with the camera. Also, as we know, the rechargeables dont last forever, and will eventually carry less of a charge. Will charging it still take 6 hours; or less? If less, how do I know how long to charge it? Sorry for all the questions guys, but i just wanted to make sure I know of any safety hazards, if any. Thanks in advance for your patience and time.


-Csanantonio

[Bill Markwick]

My only question is about the batteries, mainly, the battery charger. It says in the manual that it takes about 6 hours to charge. I am totally fine with this, since I can charge it overnight. But my problem is, what if i charge it over 6 hours, lets say 8 or 9. Will that cause the battery to leak, or any other kind of damage?
Also, as we know, the rechargeables dont last forever, and will eventually carry less of a charge. Will charging it still take 6 hours; or less? If less, how do I know how long to charge it?
-Csanantonio

The H5 comes with two AA NiMH cells, yes? In that case, the charger will know when to stop. NiMH cells can't tolerate overcharging in the same way as the old Ni-Cds, so chargers have circuitry to detect full charge and then shut off (or go to a harmless trickle charge). No worries there. Isn't there an LED or something on the charger to tell you when it's done?

As the batteries age and their capacity falls, the charge time will get shorter. Again, the charger takes care of stopping the charging at the right time. Incidentally, that 6-hour figure for only two cells is not very good. You can buy faster chargers if you want - my Duracell charges two AAs in about three hours, and there are even faster ones.

Regards
Bill

[AlexMonro]

The faster chargers do have a risk of "ageing" the batteries faster. Faster charging causes batteries to heat up more (I have seen fan-cooled chargers that charge a set of 2300mAh AAs in 15 minutes, but I wouldn't want to use them unless I was desparate!) and heat tends to accelerate the ageing process in many electrical and electronic components.

The 6-hour charger is probably fine, but I wouldn't want to use anything faster than a 3-hour charger for normal use.

[DarkDTSHD]

The faster chargers do have a risk of "ageing" the batteries faster. Faster charging causes batteries to heat up more (I have seen fan-cooled chargers that charge a set of 2300mAh AAs in 15 minutes, but I wouldn't want to use them unless I was desparate!) and heat tends to accelerate the ageing process in many electrical and electronic components.

The 6-hour charger is probably fine, but I wouldn't want to use anything faster than a 3-hour charger for normal use.

Good tip Alex! I never knew that about fast chargers. So, I guess the 15-minute one from Energizer is to be avoided. :) Selling for only $29.99 CAD and includes 4 2500 mAh batteries. The batteries themselves are highly rated as you know. I was considering that pack. Maybe I'll just pickup the batteries now.

Also, I suppose it wouldn't matter if you were to charge lets say Energizer 2500 mAh batteries using the supplied Sony 6-hour charger? The brand of batteries used shouldn't make a difference right?

The Powerex chargers sound like a good choice. As with this one, the MH-C401FS (http://www.paulsfinest.com/batts_chargers_maha.php#c401) , you can switch between a "100-minute fast charge" or a 5-hour "soft charge". And works around the world. No power block required. Convenient. Will probably try a Powerex combo first (like the $81.95 USD one...comes with the said charger and 8 Powerex 2700 mAh batteries). :)

[AlexMonro]

You should be able to charge Energizer batteries in the Sony charger, Ansmann in a Lloytron, or Panasonic in an Ansmann charger with no problems, as long as the charger is designed for the right battery chemistry (NiCd or NiMH - almost all new batteries are NiMH now, but you might find old NiCd kicking around), most chargers will handle both types.

The Powerex MH-C401FS charger looks good, use it in "gentle" mode unless you really need faster charging. However, from a glance at the downloaded manual, it does use a power block mains adapter plug, which might have to be changed to use in countries with different types of mains wall sockets. (Just checked more details - the "International" adapter handles different mains voltages, but you might need adapters for different physical types of socket in other countries.) And although it doesn't say so in the manual, it's probably best to avoid leaving betteries in the charger for more than 24hrs, even with trickle charging.

[DarkDTSHD]

You should be able to charge Energizer batteries in the Sony charger, Ansmann in a Lloytron, or Panasonic in an Ansmann charger with no problems, as long as the charger is designed for the right battery chemistry (NiCd or NiMH - almost all new batteries are NiMH now, but you might find old NiCd kicking around), most chargers will handle both types.

The Powerex MH-C401FS charger looks good, use it in "gentle" mode unless you really need faster charging. However, from a glance at the downloaded manual, it does use a power block mains adapter plug, which might have to be changed to use in countries with different types of mains wall sockets. (Just checked more details - the "International" adapter handles different mains voltages, but you might need adapters for different physical types of socket in other countries.) And although it doesn't say so in the manual, it's probably best to avoid leaving betteries in the charger for more than 24hrs, even with trickle charging.

Noted Alex. I think I will order the Powerex 401FS/8 batteries combo. Thanks again!! :)

[csanantonio]

Thanks to all the guys that replied. I just have one more question. We talked about heat, and how it is bad for batteries. My sony batteries got warm in the charger, not too bad though, but i was just wondering if that is a sign of overcharging, since i kept it in there for about 7-8 hours, just to see what would happen. Also, the signal light on the charger did not turn off, do you suppose that means it is still (over)charging, or that it is charging at a trickle rate? Again, thanks to all who replied.

[AlexMonro]

Most chargers change the colour, or turn off, the indicatir light when they switch from fast charge to trickle. Check the instruction leaflet.

Batteries usually get cooler when they've been on trickle charge for half an hour or so.

[DarkDTSHD]

Ok guys, I have another question for you guys about NiMH batteries. Any comments would be appreciated.

Last night, I had just bought a new Sony 2GB MS Pro Duo card. Popped the card in. Transferred the 22 shots I had on the internal memory to the card. Removed the card. Then deleted all 22 shots from the internal memory. Popped the card back in. Looked at the battery life icon and it read "half-full". When I first turned it on it read FULL. So, I shut off for a while. Went to watch some Sopranos reruns.

Later on, I decided to turn the camera back on to take a look. The battery life icon now read FULL again. Stayed that way till I shut the camera off. Turned the camera on 2 other times that night. Again the battery life icon read FULL. I even counted 20 seconds to see if the reading might change. It didn't. Read FULL. :)

Do NiMH batteries sometimes have dips in power? Could this have anything to do with the fact that when I removed the memory card, after coping the files from the internal memory, the camera was on? I removed the card only after the red light was no longer lit. So I wouldn't loose data.

What do you think guys? :)

[AlexMonro]

Most batteries will show a dip in voltage when they're delivering a heavy current - in fact, NiMH are better than many other types. A camera battery display based just on the voltage is simple, cheap - and of limited use, particularly because most batteries hold pretty constant voltage until about 90% of their charge has gone, and then drop rapidly (when discharged ast a constant current). My Fuji S9500 has this problem - with Ansmann 2600 mAh NiMH, it'll take hundreds of shots, review, flash etc. Then the "Low battery warning" comes on - a couple more shots & it shows "Battery dead" & turns off. I always carry a spare set of charged batteries in my camera bag.

I'm surprised that the current drawn for writing the memory card made quite that difference though. How many intervals are there on the scale between "Full" and "Half-full"?

[DarkDTSHD]

Most batteries will show a dip in voltage when they're delivering a heavy current - in fact, NiMH are better than many other types. A camera battery display based just on the voltage is simple, cheap - and of limited use, particularly because most batteries hold pretty constant voltage until about 90% of their charge has gone, and then drop rapidly (when discharged ast a constant current). My Fuji S9500 has this problem - with Ansmann 2600 mAh NiMH, it'll take hundreds of shots, review, flash etc. Then the "Low battery warning" comes on - a couple more shots & it shows "Battery dead" & turns off. I always carry a spare set of charged batteries in my camera bag.

I'm surprised that the current drawn for writing the memory card made quite that difference though. How many intervals are there on the scale between "Full" and "Half-full"?

How many intervals? Ummmm...the H1 just reads full, half, battery low (1/4 full icon) and empty. So I guess you would say it has 4.

Some one from another forum, goes by the alias Tullio, with whom I've been talking to abit lately suggested it could be due to such things as...this is the first charge for my supplied Sony 2100 mAh batteries...and because it's not fully charged yet (takes 2-3 charges before a cell can be at "full capacity")...I could be getting less out of this charge.

He also said this isn't really out of the ordinary. That the camera could be near the "half-empty" spot and just decided to display FULL again instead. That after I take a few more shots it will read HALF again. And that this has happened on his cell phone. He would talk too much. It would read half full. Shut it off. Turn it back on later and it would read Full again. Or something to that affect.

Though, since the "half-full" reading, I've turned it on 3x and has read FULL. Though, I didn't take any shots. Just changed a setting or two. And only turned it on for 10 odd seconds to see what the read out would do (did that twice).

So again I guess I have nothing to be concerned about. He did recommend I buy higher capacity batteries and give them a try. Like the 2500 mAh or 2700 mAh batteries from Powerex/Sanyo. He is also a H1 owner. And has been I'm guessing since the H1 became available last year. Or was that in 2004? Shrug. I'll probably go order some Powerex 2700's next.

But yeah, I too am surprised writing to the card drew so much power. To speed it to the HALF-FULL mark. Whether it's there now or approaching it. :) In any event, I won't be using the internal memory any more now any how now that I have a 2GB card. Wonder how many shots I'll get before this first charge is gone. Will post again when that happens probably. :)

Later Alex.

[AlexMonro]

Ah - so going from showing "Full" to "Half full" was only going to the next place on the scale. That makes sense, if before the card transfer the actual voltage was just above the transition threshold, then after the transfer it might've dropped to just below, so what was actually a very small change in voltage gives a rather larger aparent change on the display, due to the limited range of the display. And as you say this was on the first charge of the batteries, the effects would be more pronounced - I reckon it takes half a dozen or so charge cycles for NiMH batteries to reach full capacity.

When you switch the camera off and remove the load from the batteries just after taking a heavy drain from them by writing to a flash card, the voltage will slowly creep up a little over the next few minutes, leading to the battery display going from "Half full" back to "Full" again.

All this sounds perfectly normal, and if you stick to "gentle" charge mode, and every 10 charges or so let the batteries run down until the camera switches itself off (does the H1 have a "battery discharge" function like my Fuji S9500?) you should get around 1000 charge cycles before the capacity drops off to the point that you need new batteries.

[DarkDTSHD]

Ah - so going from showing "Full" to "Half full" was only going to the next place on the scale. That makes sense, if before the card transfer the actual voltage was just above the transition threshold, then after the transfer it might've dropped to just below, so what was actually a very small change in voltage gives a rather larger aparent change on the display, due to the limited range of the display. And as you say this was on the first charge of the batteries, the effects would be more pronounced - I reckon it takes half a dozen or so charge cycles for NiMH batteries to reach full capacity.

When you switch the camera off and remove the load from the batteries just after taking a heavy drain from them by writing to a flash card, the voltage will slowly creep up a little over the next few minutes, leading to the battery display going from "Half full" back to "Full" again.

All this sounds perfectly normal, and if you stick to "gentle" charge mode, and every 10 charges or so let the batteries run down until the camera switches itself off (does the H1 have a "battery discharge" function like my Fuji S9500?) you should get around 1000 charge cycles before the capacity drops off to the point that you need new batteries.

Hey Alex,

Yep. I'm now thinking this IS normal for NiMH users. I'm just so new to digicams and using batteries other than alkalines that all this is news. I had no idea NiMH's would behave this way after only shooting 22 shots and copying/deleting files from the internal memory.

Last night, I came across a post from either a H2 or H5 owner who had the same thing happen. Difference was he took "continuous shots" to get the readout to go from FULL to HALF and back to FULL again. After he had shut down his digicam for 5 minutes. Wish he had mentioned how many shots he got when it read FULL again before the reading dropped to HALF. To confirm if his camera was near the HALF mark or not.

Obviously I wasn't the only one. Heh!

Oh well...on with the show.... :)