G6 and V3

[FAUguy]

So what do all the Canon guys think about the V3?
It looks like that main problem with it is that in Auto Mode, the camera does not
choose the correct aperture for outside pictures. You have manually choose F 4-4.5 to get
the best images. If you look at the last three pictures on the V3 vs G6 page, which do you
think have the best image (all use the correct aperture).
I printed them out. On the V3 prints, the buildings/trees on the other side of the water look
more clear and in focus. On the G6 prints, they look more fuzzy.

I started off thinking about buying the A95, but I've been having second thoughts. There's been
posts about the A cameras not turning on, problems with sharpness, purple fringing, etc.
So I was thinking, what's the next step from the A95? The G6. It's more than I was looking to
spend, but I want a camera that is good enough to keep over a few years and not have
to look at replacing constantly when a new one comes out.

So if one was looking for a 5-7MP camera (non dSLR) are there any other recommendations that
I should know about.

If I can't find something by the end of Nov, I guess I'll have to use my old APS again for vacation :(

[haikai]

So what do all the Canon guys think about the V3?
It looks like that main problem with it is that in Auto Mode, the camera does not
choose the correct aperture for outside pictures. You have manually choose F 4-4.5 to get
the best images. If you look at the last three pictures on the V3 vs G6 page, which do you
think have the best image (all use the correct aperture).
I printed them out. On the V3 prints, the buildings/trees on the other side of the water look
more clear and in focus. On the G6 prints, they look more fuzzy.

this has been discussed quite a bit in some of the General Digital Photography Chat threads... i think the general consensus is to decide based on which camera has the features you like because they are pretty similar as far as image quality is concerned. i don't care for the extra sharpening of the v3, and i know people complain about the g6's lack of saturation in colors, but these things can be fixed if you shoot in RAW (which both cams can do) so i don't see a problem unless you are planning on printing the images with as little postprocessing fuss as possible. :)

hai

[apocalypso]

I own the G6. I cannot imagine the hassle of manually setting the aperture to get acceptable photos. How good would the V3 have to be to put up with that? Far better than it is. Think about it.

[ReF]

If I had to choose between the G6 and V3, personally i'd go for the G6. I like to shoot with small apertures, and apparently, the V3 sucks at that. If you're like me and like to shoot at night, then the V3 has a better low light focusing system. While the V3's movie mode is a very nice feature, if you are buying the Cam mainly for Pic quality then the movie mode shouldn't be all that important. The G6 also has that very very useful rotating LCD, and trust me, it's great!
Did I just repeat a bunch of stuff that was said in the G6 vs V3 discussion? sorry, I didn't read it.
So far I have not heard of any problems with the A95, just with the A75 (maybe that's why it's available for $150-$175 from trusted dealers, which is the same or lower price than the A400).

I was also in the same boat as you, considering the G6 as a step up from the A80 (last year's version of the A95) but then I started to think: if the G6 is already so big that I can't fit it into my pocket and I either have to carry it around in one hand, around my neck, or in a bag, then how much difference would it be to carry around a D-rebel? I know you specifically said you DO NOT want a Dslr, but think about this: You are buying the G6 or V3 for picture quality and to make sure the camera won't be outdated anytime soon right? The picture quality you'll get from the large Sensor on the D-reb is going to beat out what replaces the G and V series for at least two years(unless they start putting the big puppies on those cams, but I don't think it's likely to happen). Also, the lenses on the on the G6 and V3 are what I consider to be a major weakness. Sure it's a nice quality, big lens, but the telephoto power of it is just a tiny step up from the usual 38-115mm zoom, and if you want stabilization, well, you aren't gonna get it. My main reason for deciding on the D-rebel is 1.the excellent dynamic range of the sensor, 2. wide choice of lenses, and 3. very low noise: the noise at ISO 800 is lower than 5 meg consumer cams at ISO 200 - now that's useful! So If you're going to spend that much money on a G6 or V3 the price of the D-rebel is not all that big of a jump up. You can find it on the web for around $730-$750 after rebate and if you buy at least one qualifying lens (you probably will. you can also skip the kit lens and save yourself $50-100) then you get an additional rebate which drops it down to $630-$650. Looks pretty nice to me. Another plus is that the lenses you buy for the D-slr don't go to waste when the camera gets old, and you don't need to hassle with one of those overpriced adapters if you want to attach filters, etc. Also, have you considered the Panasonic Z20? You trade resolution that you probably won't use or miss and some picture quality for incredible zoom and a very useful Stabilized lens. If I was gonna spend twice the $$$ to jump from a A95 to a G6, then I would expect a very dramatic and obvious increase in results, but I just don't feel that the G6 or V3 delivers there. The Panasonic Z20 does provide some obvious advantages though...
Just my 2 cents. Good luck to you with whatever you choose!

[FAUguy]

Thank you for your follow-up post. I took a look at the review that is posted about the Digital Rebel, and there is one thing that conserns me "...is that D-SLRs cannot preview shots on the LCD before they are taken -- it's for menus and reviewing shots you have already taken."
I have not looked at dslr's before, so I was not aware of this. So you have to look at the image in the optical viewfinder first, take the picture, then see how it turns out on the LCD? Looks like a lot of extra work. I have never used a SLR before, so also not use to the zoom control being on the lens its self.

Honestly, from reading the reviews that are on this site, I can't find 1 camera under $700 that is 90% or better perfict!
So I'm not sure if it's worth the money to buy a digital camera yet. They've been around for years, and one would think they'd be near perfection, but they all still have their quarks.

First I started out thinking about the A95. Then started to get worried about the purple fringing, red eye, and other issues. So then thought about the G6 and V3. As you said, for twice the money, you don't get twice the image with either of those over the A95.
Not to mention the aperture problem the V3 has.

I have come to a major impass. I wanted to have something by the first of Dec. Now I don't know if it's going to happen.

[haikai]

Honestly, from reading the reviews that are on this site, I can't find 1 camera under $700 that is 90% or better perfict!
So I'm not sure if it's worth the money to buy a digital camera yet. They've been around for years, and one would think they'd be near perfection, but they all still have their quarks.

i think when you pay for nearly twice the amount of an a95 for a g6/v3 you're not really supposed to be getting twice the image quality (although that certainly would be nice)... you're also paying for other higher end features and manual controls. i think the g6/v3 is a compromise between the quality and control of a dslr and most other fixed lens cameras (you won't have to buy extra lenses like you would need to do with a dslr).

i don't even know if there will be a camera available that meets your requirements by next year let alone next month... but i think it may be worth it to get something in the meantime. these are still fine cameras you are considering even if they do have their imperfections. an a95 is probably more than adequate for vacation snaps. purple fringing and red eye is there, but those tend to be emphasized in reviews for comparison sake... it doesn't mean every picture you take will be plagued by them if you keep it in mind and adjust for the situation at hand :)

hai

[ReF]

Thank you for your follow-up post. I took a look at the review that is posted about the Digital Rebel, and there is one thing that conserns me "...is that D-SLRs cannot preview shots on the LCD before they are taken -- it's for menus and reviewing shots you have already taken."
I have not looked at dslr's before, so I was not aware of this. So you have to look at the image in the optical viewfinder first, take the picture, then see how it turns out on the LCD? Looks like a lot of extra work. I have never used a SLR before, so also not use to the zoom control being on the lens its self.

Honestly, from reading the reviews that are on this site, I can't find 1 camera under $700 that is 90% or better perfict!
So I'm not sure if it's worth the money to buy a digital camera yet. They've been around for years, and one would think they'd be near perfection, but they all still have their quarks.

First I started out thinking about the A95. Then started to get worried about the purple fringing, red eye, and other issues. So then thought about the G6 and V3. As you said, for twice the money, you don't get twice the image with either of those over the A95.
Not to mention the aperture problem the V3 has.

I have come to a major impass. I wanted to have something by the first of Dec. Now I don't know if it's going to happen.


You might be asking for too much. No camera is perfect and probably never will be. If it's got all the features and picture quality you need, then it's probably too big or too expensive, and the list goes on. Life is full of compromises, and with a camera, you just have to pick which set of compromises you are most comfortable with.

I agree with hai that it's worth having a camera now, because while you are worrying about when the perfect camera will come out, all these great oppertunities for pictures are gonna pass you by. Or if you shoot tons of pics like me, whichever camera you pick now (most of the ones mentioned are pretty darn good) will pay for itself (compared to film and print costs) by the time the perfect cam for you comes out. The A95 is really not bad by the way, since with aperture controls there are many ways around Purple fringing. I like the way my pictures come out at small apertures anyways so I get to kill two birds with one stone. The only time I really see Purple fringing with the A80 is when a bright sky causes it on the edges of a dark foreground, but then again, that'll happen to almost all small sensor cams. Redeye is really easy to repair. The LCD problem with SLR's? well that's just a fact of life, even if it's REALLY easy for the manufacturer to overcome (i think). It's just what you have to give up if you want really top notch pictures, and it's not that bad once you get used to the idea. I'd also like to mention that my A80 pictures come out much better than my 35mm pics because the camera gives me a very good amount of control over focusing, aperture, shutter speed, white balance, ISO, AND I'll know right away if the picture came out just the way I want it.

You're using a standard APS non slr right? well when I go back and look at all the 35mm shots I did with standard cameras, I was really dissapointed with the shallow depth of field on scenery because I had no aperture control, and with no control over shutter speed, most of the time I had to shoot with 400 speed film which is very grainy IMO. What I getting at is that having a digital now is totally worth it, but the decision is yours to make.

[FAUguy]

ReF,

I have always used a 35mm camera, but bought a Kodak APS 4100ix when it first came out several years ago.
Mainly because it was said that the image quality would be better, you have the choice of 3 picture print sizes, and it was point-and-shoot.
The downside is that images would come out too dark unless you used ISO 400 film.
I was away for two weeks in July and went through 5 rolls of 25exp film. Got them done with Kodak Perfect Touch APS processing
when I got back. Needless to say, they did not turn out as good as taking them to Wolf Camera/Ritz Camera, but they now want $18 to develop 1 roll.
So that's when I started thinking that it might be time for me to take control and do it myself.
I was in need of a new printer, so went on and got an Epson R200 photo printer.
I don't go around taking pictures all the time every day. Usually on trips, holidays, events, etc.
However, when I have my camera out and with me, I do like taking plenty of pictures.
Usually can go through 5-8 25exp rolls in a week vacation...like the upcoming one in Dec.

The thing is, I need a camera that has good Automatic control when other members of the family are using it.
I wouldn't mind selecting the correct White Balance and ISO, but no one else would want to, or want to learn how to do it.
I also need something that is easy to carry. I don't need something micro like a Canon Elf 300 or Sony P150, but it can't be as large as a Rebel.
That is why the A95 is the better size for me. All-in-all, I like the design of the A95. My only reservations about it were based
on the reviews that Jeff K and other sites have given it...such as the red eye and purple fringing.
Other than that, the A95 has got alot going for it, and can get it on-line for around $300. It has the Auto control that would be
good for other people to use, Manual settings if you need to override, and the Scene modes to help out.
I do like rotating LCD and how it stays inside and protected when not in use. Canon needs a 2.5" (high pixel count) on the next version though, along with the DIGIC-II.
The A95 using 4-AA batteries is Ok, but you still have to go buy a rechargeable pack. It's still nice that you can get AA anyplace if they run out.
As well as it using CF, not more expensive xD or Memory Stick Pro.

I have always been a fan of Canon camcorders, and bought the ES5000 back in the 90's. It had an infra-red transmitter that would
detect your eye movement in the viewfinder to track what to focus on. Now it's the FlexiZone AF system using buttons.
The A95 has that as well.

I guess it pretty much boils down to me buying one and trying it for myself.
BestBuy has all of the cameras on my list that I'd like to try, so I might as well start there instead of running from store to store.

Any additional help is appreciated.

[FAUguy]

I went to BustBuy today since it was a one-stop for all of the cameras I wanted to try out.
I looked at the:
Canon A95, SD300, G6, Rebel
Sony W1, P150, V3
Olympus C-7000

The A95 felt nice holding it. Not too big...not to small. The rotating LCD was very nice.
Only thing I didn't understand is why the Set and Menu buttons were under the LCD.
The A75/A85/SD300 has it in the center of the 4-way control buttons.

The SD300 was incredibly tiny! I could not get over how small it was in-person.
For me, maybe to small for my large hands and fingers. The display (2") was not too noticeably
larger than the A95 (1.8"). I did like that the Set/Menu button was placed in there center of
the 4-way button control. The A75/A85 is like this too. I don't know why the A95 has
the Set and Menu button under the LCD. One thing that I didn't like about the SD300 was
the way the images came out on the review Jeff did. Since it uses the same lens that
the S60/S70 has. This alone would make me not buy the SD300.

The G6 was also nice, but didn't like how there was no intagrated camera lens.
Also, the LCD (at least on the display model) when moving it seemed very tight
and harder to turn than the A95.

The Rebel is not the camera for me. Going to Disney and places like that, this camera would weigh me down
I know it's a dSLR and has incredible image quality, but I don't see me going in-and-out of Space Mountain with it.
If I were using a camera strictly as a Professional Photographer, then I would defiantly consider it.
If they would only place a 3:2 CMOS sensor on a non-dSLR camera with the size of a A95/G6 body.

The Sony DSC-W1 has an amazing large 2.5" LCD. However, moving images on it did not look as
fluid as on the Canons. The size of the LCD was the only thing I like about the W1.

The DSC-P150 is the smallest compact 7MP camera out there. However, it is simply a point-and-shoot device.
I think the SD300 had more Manual controls than the P150, and a larger LCD, but the P150 probably
produces better images than the SD300 with the not-too-good lens.

The V3 was quite impressive; actually. Looked roughly about the same size as the G6 (check specs to see exact sizes).
However, it was starting to get onto the larger size of the camera spectrum. I would first wait to see if possibly there
will be a fix from Sony to fix the Aperture problem it has with outdoor photos that Jeff discovered.

Lastly was the Olympus C-7000. Unfortunately there was no DC power going to it, so could not turn it on.
It was the only camera there with the gold color casing. It was very nice looking, and I look forward to
Jeff's review of it later this month.

Over all, I liked the A95 the best, which I like best before going in there. It has more features out of any normal/compact
camera there and felt the best in hand. The pictures from Jeff's review are also very good, except from some purple fringing.
Unfortunately, if I bought the A95 to try it out, BestBuy has a 14-day return and 15% restocking fee.
I'm not going to buy something where I may be charged $50 for trying it out. To me, that's a deterrence for buying it from them.
Luckily, there's another store, BrandsMart (in FL), that has a 5-day policy with no restocking fee. Their price was also $10 less than
BestBuy ($349). Still, I can buy it on-line for $290.

Any additional help is appreciated.