how much would you charge for this?

[phatkid77]

just curious if anyone does this, and how much you charge.... this is my second one..... REALLY GOING TO UP MY RATES DUE TO ANNOYANCE FACTOR:mad:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/phatkid77/cartercook2resize.jpg

[cwphoto]

I dunno Phat, looks like a fair bit of work involved and I'm not sure the market is there (well not here anyway) to be able to sell an image like that for much more than a normal action print.

Are you having trouble selling them?

[phatkid77]

lots of work indeed..... 2-3hrs per poster....

i just started this, and have sold 4, so not bad actually... but at $40 for 8x12" its pretty cheap, considering....

phats

[cdifoto]

If you can get $40 for an 8x12 you're doing good. That would be considered pretty high priced around my area. Mostly because people just don't pay that much for a print that size, regardless of the work involved. In other words, people don't know and don't care about the effort it takes.

[ReF]

lots of work indeed..... 2-3hrs per poster....

i just started this, and have sold 4, so not bad actually... but at $40 for 8x12" its pretty cheap, considering....

phats

2-3hrs isn't bad IMO. of course this is from someone who isn't very good at coming up with 2d graphics designs from scratch. if you're using a template you've created then it's taking too long IMO.

$40 for the shooting AND designing/post process work AND print is hella cheap. but if you could get several sales out of that one image then that's not bad. if you are only earning $40 total then i would think selling 1 very good image in a large size at a high price or selling several different good images at a moderate cost would be more profitable, not to mention less work. i would only resort to the cut and paste work if you could not get one image that could stand on it's own out of a days shooting, as a way of salvaging the shoot.

[XaiLo]

Yes it amazes me how little some people think creative time is worth...:( In what form is the annoyance taking place... customers, pictures, layout, design or other:confused:

[KurtB]

If you can get $40 for a 8x12 print of a modified free template from the Adobe Users forum, and only 2-3 hours of your time (not counting the shooting time), that is good. Around here $40 for a 8x12 is a bit high, unless it is a great picture, not your average sports action shot. And really, for this series, the picture choice chould have been better. The first thing that came to mind was "does he have a face?" The large shot, putting in the mouth guard, is the best chance to show his face, it it was blocked by the raised face mask. Mom may like it, but for $40, she probably would like to actually see her son.

As for the template modification, I would connect the thin lines in the background, or eliminate them all together. (It is where the small pictures would normally be placed in the original template).

As always, YMMV. If it sells, that is what is important, not what somebody on an Internet forum thinks.

Kurt

[phatkid77]

the annoyance is all that erasing... my god!!!

and the parent and child actually pics the pics for the piece... send them a slide show...and they choose..... wasnt keen of choices either....

mals

[DFish]

I don't like how your name is just smack dead in the center over the players pictures. It should really be near the bottom and not so obvious IMO.

[phatkid77]

wow!!..... water mark... honestly.....come on...lol

[Vich]

Once you have this (or a few) templates, I'd think the 2 or 3 hours will reduce with practice. Gathering from your other posts, you're just getting started. Seems like a nice jumping-off point.

Jamison was saying he did weddings for exactly 1/2 the lowest going rate for a whole year (I think he said $500). A wedding is probably similar work to doing 12 of these. You'll get some contacts and practice. Maybe you could hire someone to do the PP eventually (outsource, bad word, bad word!) or just stop doing them when other gigs start rolling in.

I'd love to get $40 x 4 for a full day's photography and PP, but it would get old pretty quick. I could see a pro getting about $100 to $200 for your posters, framed, considering that you can shoot multiple kids in the same day. I should qualify that I've never sold a photo in my life and have no idea what pro photo shoots cost.

[phatkid77]

hahah.. appreciate the input either way.....

[Clyde]

If you are working from reasonably high resolution photos, you could print them much larger with no loss of quality. Check out what it would cost you to get some internet printer to print and maybe frame them for you at, say, 16"x20". If you can't get it nicely framed via an internet printer, consider just buying a print and getting a local frame shop to frame it for you.

Your work load wouldn't change, and you could up your prices from $40 to maybe $100? If the math works out, your return could be improved.

I sell "bin" paintings unframed from $20-80. Slap a $30 frame on a painting, and the prices for that size (6"8" to 11"x14") go to $120-$340. Of course it isn't quite that simple, I try to frame my best work, but still the principle holds. I work just as hard on the paintings I get $20 for as the ones I end up getting $120 for (as well as the multitude of paintings I never sell:( .)

There are two different skill sets that are only tangentially related. 1)Making and 2)selling art. Most people are better at one than the other, but to be succesful you really need to cultivate both. The bottom line is that your work is invisible. Your clients only see the end product, so present it as nicely as you can.

Clyde (the selling anti-talent)

[cwphoto]

If you can get $40 for a 8x12 print of a modified free template from the Adobe Users forum, and only 2-3 hours of your time (not counting the shooting time), that is good.

Kurt

$15 an hour? I can earn more than that packing shelves at the supermarket!

That really is crap money for the time required to produce the product. I sell standard (ie; zero artwork) 8x12" prints for around AUD50, so something like this I'd want a couple of hundred for - which may be more than what the market is willing to pay - which is why I question whether the market is actually there for this kind of work.

Unless that 2-3 hours can be reduced to ten minutes I can't see a business case.:(

[cdifoto]

$15 an hour? I can earn more than that packing shelves at the supermarket!

That really is crap money for the time required to produce the product. I sell standard (ie; zero artwork) 8x12" prints for around AUD50, so something like this I'd want a couple of hundred for - which may be more than what the market is willing to pay - which is why I question whether the market is actually there for this kind of work.

Unless that 2-3 hours can be reduced to ten minutes I can't see a business case.:(

Same reason I wouldn't swap heads for the Whore Bride. I only got $300 for that wedding. I was NOT going to spend 12 hours in PS fixing her ugly family. However, if she gave me 12 thousand bucks I woulda made her ghetto wedding look like it took place in France....

[KurtB]

$15 an hour? I can earn more than that packing shelves at the supermarket!

That really is crap money for the time required to produce the product. I sell standard (ie; zero artwork) 8x12" prints for around AUD50, so something like this I'd want a couple of hundred for - which may be more than what the market is willing to pay - which is why I question whether the market is actually there for this kind of work.

Unless that 2-3 hours can be reduced to ten minutes I can't see a business case.:(

Here is the clarification (hard to write a lot when at work)...

I agree that $15 an hour may seem low. If it is taking 3 hours to do the cut out work, he will get better. The rest of the template is a FREE template from Adobe. There was very little design work. In the original template, there was 1 cutout, and a place for 3 small pictures (not cutouts). The OP will probably be able to get the PP down to 1-2 hours or less.

Now in terms of a business model, this is a poster with limited appeal. The way I see it, there are 2 ways to make money with this print. Either sell 1 at a high price, or make up for it with additional prints that involve little PP work (5x7, 8x10, 20x30, etc). If I was doing the work, I would probably price it quite a bit higher than $40, and then include it as part of a "package" at a reduced rate. If I sold 1, at the higher price, it would make up for the time involved. If I sold 1 at the reduced "package" rate ($40?) along with $50+ in additional prints that only involve 5-10 minutes of PP total (color correct, sharpen, crop, print) - the fact that I have to spend an hour doing the cutout work would be worth it.

There was a great thread over on FM about onsite selling and pricing. There was a very accomplished artist there that is getting $120-180 for the design work on his posters (regardless of size). Printing was additional. The quality of design, both layout and photography was much better than the free template that was shown here.

Before you think I have a problem with the template. I have used this exact template, in a slightly modified form, for my personal use. However, at least in my area, trying to get more than $40-50 for this poster would be hard to do. Not impossible, but difficult unless it is part of a higher priced package.

Kurt

[cwphoto]

I realise that getting creative with Photoshop can be fun, but (from a business perspective) why don't you simply sell her a few 'standard' prints for the same money (but drastically lower cost)?

[cwphoto]

The OP will probably be able to get the PP down to 1-2 hours or less.
Kurt

Still way too long for the return.

[cdifoto]

If you got a nice capture of the kid catching a pass or any play key to his position, you could sell an unframed 11x14 with minimal post work and walk away with a bigger profit at the end of the day.

All you really need is a sharp lens, the ability to nail exposure, and good timing.

[DonSchap]

for lack of a better word, "suck". Unless you commit to an amount beforehand, you will never get the real value out of it, afterwards. People know you are stuck, once the creative process has taken place... so you need to market your work, clearly, beforehand... with examples, otherwise... YOU LOSE :(

A portfolio of your work allows people to consider your efforts... and decide. You kind of know what's involved before you start, so the time portion can be calculated from prior efforts.

I will not produce anything for less than $40.00/hr plus materials & 20% for prep. That's my rate... for success. If I blow it... then we renegotiate. It is turns out... pay up. :D

[KurtB]

Still way too long for the return.

Agreed, unless this is the "add on" that seals the deal on the $150+ order that still only takes an hour or two to complete.

As previoulsy indicated, the only way I would think about selling this item for $40 is as part of a "package deal" that includes more standard prints (think "upsize" on the McDonald's value meal - for only $40 more, you can get this $150 poster).

I probably would not even offer the item individually, but if I did, it would be priced to make it worth my time. That price unfortunately would make it unsellable in the market in my area (that print would not sell well for $40 as a standalone item in my area). But if the poster is the item that moves the customer from "Package C" to "Package D" for an additional $40-$50, that would be worth it.

Kurt

[Vich]

I like the "upsize" gig, but what I see is a lot of pre-ordering. People don't have that good of visualization. I'm not experienced in this matter (other than as the consumer) but when the photographer makes a whole package of prints my wife generally buys at least half. The photo work still costs the same, the prints are what, $2 each for 8x10s.

I would do something like this - never provide one of these without accompanying it with an offer for a $60 full set of school-like photos in a package. You probably had a few shots just as good. Discreetly let them know you'll shred them if they don't purchase. They'll dig deep to save little Johnny from the shredder, I'm guessing.

Something along those lines. Maybe charge $80 if they just buy the poster, but it's only $110 for the whole package.

That's it. The incremental increases. $15 each but only $5 each if purchased all together. Their minds equate it to a fantastic deal.

[XaiLo]

I would like to add I found this thread to be enjoyable and rather interesting with some exceptional points made. Ultimately it's going to boil down to what you're market will bear. And most importantly what the customer wants "case in point" I was doing some market research for a project. The individual that I was conducting the survey with asked about my website took a quick look at it and noticed I did brochures. Not only did I get my answers I also got a client. Another time I took some pictures and someone was interested in some of the them. They wanted the pics but I had downloaded them to my computer and my burner went bad. He bought me a new burner. My point is sometimes you just have to roll with your opportunities and just remember to watch out for them they don't always come the way you expect them to.

[mmelgar]

If you could automate the process it might be worth doing, but 2-3 hrs work and your only getting $40 for the print? I can't see how you're it worth your time. Thats about $120 for an 8 hour day and that doesn't include your expenses. Unfortunately I don't see any way to write a script for the selections, and that probably takes up most of your time.

I don't know where you live, but around here one possible solution would be to sell the poster as a framed 20X30. People might be willing to spend a lot more for it, but it would increase your costs and time involved.

[Vich]

If you could automate the process it might be worth doing, but 2-3 hrs work and your only getting $40 for the print? I can't see how you're it worth your time. Thats about $120 for an 8 hour day and that doesn't include your expenses. Unfortunately I don't see any way to write a script for the selections, and that probably takes up most of your time.

I don't know where you live, but around here one possible solution would be to sell the poster as a framed 20X30. People might be willing to spend a lot more for it, but it would increase your costs and time involved.
Lets not forget that poster size reveals photo flaws so isn't always possible.

I'm curious, what part of this takes so long? Is it the electronic snipping of a person? Football players with helmet on shortens the worst part (hair).

One thought is to set up a blue backdrop and have the kid run across it several times, then snap the field, and using "color select", 20 minutes later, you're done.

I've not done this, it's theoretical. Would it work?

[mickisdaddy]

It does work pretty goog taking the pictures with a blue (neutral background). You can pretty easily cut them out in PS. You may have to use a green or something if the player is wearing blue. Try a google search for blue screen photography. I just tried and there are quite a few articles.

I have done it before and it took me about 15-20 minutes to cut it out and paste it on the prepared template.

Give it a try.

Sean

[Vich]

It does work pretty goog taking the pictures with a blue (neutral background). You can pretty easily cut them out in PS. You may have to use a green or something if the player is wearing blue. Try a google search for blue screen photography. I just tried and there are quite a few articles.

I have done it before and it took me about 15-20 minutes to cut it out and paste it on the prepared template.

Give it a try.

Sean
Also; something like this (click here) (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14346&highlight=multiplicity)is just as easy in PP, as long as you used a good tripod and are careful not touch the camera between shots. Maybe 5-10 minutes per overlay once you get the hang of it (again, if you didn't budge the camera, even a hair).