Lumix DMC-TZ1 - indoor/low lighting picture taking problem...help?

[lionheart34]

UPDATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look through thread for some example pictures!!

After browsing through here, I noticed some of you have taken some awesome pictures in low light settings.

I just recently got this camera, and I love most of what I can do with it. However, just about the majority of the pictures I have taken indoors (in low lighting) come out terrible. I have been trying to play with the settings (using different modes like party mode, profile, high sensitivity etc) but nothing seems to really work or the picture has noise or is too dark.
Also, in the case of these pictures being too dark, whenever I use the flash, everything lights up to the point of almost blinding. (where the picture seems "washed out")

So I ask, how the heck do you accomplish taking low lighting pictures with the TZ1????!!
Do you just manually change some specific settings (like the ISO to 800)?

I've also been using the second mode in the OIS. I figure this mode is the all about best mode to use.

I got this camera because I got an internship in California that I will be leaving for on Sat for 8 weeks. I wanted an all purpose camera that I could take pictures indoor and out. And I also wanted a camera I could quickly hand to someone to take a picture of me (lol, because yes, I do like to be in some of my photos sometimes!! lol) without taking the time to mess with so many settings, or have to retake the picture 10 times.
I know I can accomplish taking a good picture in low lighting / indoors, I just really suck at it right now.

Any advice would be awesome!!!
(I'll post up some pictures later when I get the chance of what I am referring to)

[nrbelex]

If the subject is washed out with the flash on, could you simply be too close? I've found that night shots come out well in the standard "Auto" mode but "party" mode works nicely too. I don't play with the ISO unless I'm trying to do something specific. What problems are you having with the flash turned off? Are you getting blurring, underexposure, etc.? Make sure the camera is auto-focused properly (you get a green box, not red) before firing off a shot.

~ Brett

[ryanbrancel]

Extra tips for low light shooting:
When dealing with a low-light scene (esp. when the flash can not be used), it helps to manually increase the ISO settings (if normal auto settings are not working out). By default, it will only go up to ISO 200 when there is no flash and up to ISO 400 with the flash. I'm glad Panasonic did it this way as you are given more control over when the sensor "gains up". So if the shutter readings become too slow for the current scene, you can try bumping up to 400 or 800 in the menu to see if that gives you a faster shutter speed reading while increasing sensitivity of the sensor to capture more light. If 800 is still too dark or the subject is too blurry, then use the High Sensitivity Mode which will allow shots to be taken in dark environments while minimizing blurred subjects, at the expense of some detail. There are other methods such as shooting at wide angle instead of telephoto (if possible) to get a maximum aperture, increase EV settings, or also use the EV auto-bracketing to take 3 shots in succession w/ different exposure settings. You can also try setting the slow shutter down to 1/4 (instead of 1/8) which will allow a longer shutter, however this requires a steadier hand! Setting it to 1/4 will also enable speeds of 1/5 and 1/6 to be used. 1/4 seems to be the cutoff for me in terms of getting a stable handheld shot with a still subject (which is amazing that you can get a handheld shot at this speed!).

taken from my TZ1 resource page: http://ryanbrancel.googlepages.com/panasonicdmc-tz1review

[lionheart34]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Brett - the subject really isn't that close. The party mode isn't so bad. I also think my LCD shows the pictures a little brighter then they are actually recorded too.
Well, I have been getting dark pictures and bluring for the most part.
I finally got some examples here, I apologise in advance because this is VERY image heavy!!!!!!!!!!!! (2 images are larger then the rest, sorry about that!)
But I wanted to give a vairity of pictures.

Ok, first off, here is just a few example pictures I took. The settings are stated on the picture. Some of them are dark, etc, for obvious reasons, such as not having the flash on. But it seemed if I did have the flash on, it was brighter then heck. Anyway, here we go:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000010.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000037.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000087.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000093.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000151.jpg

Some of those pictures are probably the way they are due to the settings. But you can kind of see how some are DARK and how the first one is just too bright. In all the shots, the setting wasn't very dark at all.

Here are some other photos that compare with each other a little more:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000137.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000133.jpg

Now the second picture isn't all that bad. And I know the first one is mostly do to that because of the setting, but I took other pictures in different settings that looked just as bad and blurred. The light was pretty good in the room we were in too. The second one I thought was a little bit too dark, but it really isn't all that bad. I know that some of these shots are probably mostly due to the backgrounds....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000125.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000129.jpg

Again, probably due to the settings. But I actually have more pictures where these came from in various settings. They all kind of came out the same, dark, red eye, washed out color, etc. The last one was the best one out of the batch....


OK I am making another post with more pictures here.........

[lionheart34]

Ok, remember that I am includeing various pictures just to show compairison and stuff to hopefully get my point across for I know I can get some of the pictures to look better. It took me a while to get these all resized and stuff to show here but I really want to know how to make low lighting pictures come out well.....

Back onto the pictures....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000124.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000123.jpg

Here is the best example. I just couldn't win, lol. either my picture was DARK or the subject was lit up like a christmas tree. The first one isn't so bad but is too bright if you ask me...


Ok here is another subject with soem various pictures:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000169.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000157.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000171.jpg

And here is High Sensitivity:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/Untitled-1.jpg

GAG! The pictures taken in that setting are VERY noisy and BLURY. I don't like them, and the pictures come out dark. So that mode hasn't in any pictures I have taken in it, come out well.
Speaking of noise. Is it normal for the noise to be like this when fully viewed?:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000132.jpg
Just wondering and checking...


Ok... again, more pictures coming...........

[lionheart34]

Now these next pictures were all taken in the same room with pretty good lighting and all in one setting:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000074.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000064.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000058.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000057.jpg

I thought the 1st, 2nd, and 4th were too dark. The coloring on them seemed a bit off too. The 3rd one is too bright I think. And eventhough you can't really notice (because I shrunk them down) there was a little bluring too.


Ok, last batch of example pictures coming up!!!!!!!

[lionheart34]

Ok last set...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000014.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000026.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000019.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000018.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000016.jpg

Like the last set, these were all taken in the same room at the same time. You probably can't tell much but all but one picture is blurry. I mean the blur isn't so bad, but you can really tell when it's full size.

I (stupidly) deleted some other example pictures I had in auto mode. Here were some in various settings I had taken. I know I gave a lot of images, sorry about that.
I think you were right about maybe manually setting the ISO settings. But I am wondering any other advice. I am so frustrated and clueless, lol!
I will need to take a good batch of indoor pictures this summer and I can't have them coming out like this.
Hopefully I kind of got out how my pictures were coming out.
I have terrible shaky hands. So I have been using the second monde while taking these. And I know not everyone has the most steadyest hand.
Anyway, ANY input would be great guys. And I can take more shots to compare if you would like. just let me know.

[John_Reed]

For those of us who are accustomed to tweaking colors a little, your photos mostly looked within easy range of perfection, on that score. But when you use flash, as you probably noticed, the shutterspeed generally comes out at 1/30. This means that your scene won't be totally illuminated by the flash, but will also depend on ambient light. 1/30 of a second for human subjects is enough time to get appreciable movement while the shutter is open. So when you're shooting, be REALLY careful to hold the camera steady, and don't depend on the flash for "freezing" your subjects. Also, especially when you're using "Redeye" flash, inform your subjects to wait until the camera has finished its two flashes! When focusing on an even number of subjects, pick one of them to point the camera at, obtain AF lock after half-pressing the shutter button, then re-frame for the shot. I've gotten some really good results on skin tones and colors using this camera, so I know that it has decent capability. Here's a redeye flash shot at ISO 400, taken in a bar:
http://John-Reed.smugmug.com/photos/66512364-M.jpg
Another shot, taken in a home in fading daylight, at ISO 100, redeye flash:
http://John-Reed.smugmug.com/photos/66693289-M.jpg
And here's one taken of me and a woman, where I just put the camera in "Simple" mode and handed it to a guy to shoot, again at ISO 100, redeye flash:
http://John-Reed.smugmug.com/photos/66693452-M.jpg
None of these shots needed any redeye reduction.

[lionheart34]

Thanks John_Reed, those are some great photos. And thank you for the advice!

Yeah, the coloring really wasn't all that bad. The only pictures noticable on that were the ones of my mom in pink. Then there was my friend the lifeguard. But that was mostly due to the soft skin mode I had on my friend.

It seems I am able to pull off better pictures when I use the automatic mode for the most part.
It seems as though shutter speed is the key. I still get a BRIGHT flash/illumination on my subjects, which is awful and nothing compared to the lovely indoor ones you took. lol, I even got a photo mostly all white it was so bright. And for some reason, I have noticed some more noise in my photos with the increased shutter speed as well. But if I set it low, my pictures blur. Yet if I have the flash, the pictures Scream "FLASH WAS USED"! lol. I wonder if there is something specific I should be doing...
Because I keep getting this, if not worse:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/mythic_lionheart/help%20folder/P1000124.jpg

I take a few shots of things when I take pictures for my hands shake a lot. So I am glad for the stablization.

I do have another question, is the "Simple Mode" the best mode to use when giving your camera to others to use to take pictures for you? Just wondering.

I really do appreciate all of you checking this out and taking the time to give me advice and everything. It means a lot :) Hopefully I will be able to get down how to take indoor pictures better soon!

[John_Reed]

If you look at the face, yes it's bright, but it isn't really clipping anywhere, and by "clipping," I mean I'll bet there are aren't any levels overly white. Set your ISO on "Auto," and you can also adjust the EV level to get more or less exposure. As for that photo, a very simple level tweak would make it quite acceptable. It's not an easy exposure; the face is the only light thing in the picture. If you'll notice my photos have a bigger expanse of brighter objects than simply the face of the subject.

[nrbelex]

One other thing to consider is the "Slow sync./Red-eye reduction" mode (manual page 41 - the icon for this mode is a yellow lightning bolt, S and an eye) which will...

...slow the shutter speed when the flash is activated so that the dark background landscape will become bright. Simultaneously it reduces the red-eye phenomenon.
Use this when you take pictures of people in front of a dark background.

It takes some playing with but you can definitely figure out a combo of modes and settings for most situations. It's also worth noting that the problems you are having are not camera specific and are probably issues you'd get with any digital camera. In the mode I described, the shutter stays open longer but produces more "brightly balanced" photos so work on keeping your hand still.

~ Brett

[John_Reed]

A shot taken from where I happen to be sitting at the moment, down the hall past my piano. This one is shot in "A Flash" mode, meaning the flash will fire if it's dark enough, at 1/30. Camera set the ISO at 100:
http://John-Reed.smugmug.com/photos/76815389-M.jpg
I switched over to "slow sync" flash, shot the same shot, only this time the shutter speed was 1 second, ISO 125:
http://John-Reed.smugmug.com/photos/76815266-M.jpg
That's as slow as Tizzy will shoot outside "Night Scene" or "Starry Sky" mode, but you can see that the scene got a lot more illumination from what available light there was. A little blurry too, but hey, handheld at 1 second? Not too bad at that.
All in all, I like the idea, though I'm afraid that many more living subjects will get blurred by moving during the slow shutter time. It's bad enough sometimes at 1/30!

[nrbelex]

Try that mode a couple more times in real-life situations. I've had a lot of success with it and usually the shutter doesn't stay open that long for me in real-life scenarios so there's a bit less blurring. Good luck.

~ Brett

[John_Reed]

Try that mode a couple more times in real-life situations. I've had a lot of success with it and usually the shutter doesn't stay open that long for me in real-life scenarios so there's a bit less blurring. Good luck.

~ Brett
Was to allow taking a night-time landscape, with the flash coming on to illuminate your subjects in the foreground. But whatever, it seems workable just as you suggest. I guess I was just testing a worst-case scenario!

[nrbelex]

Was to allow taking a night-time landscape, with the flash coming on to illuminate your subjects in the foreground. But whatever, it seems workable just as you suggest. I guess I was just testing a worst-case scenario!

Yea, that's what the wording in the manual suggests but given all the unique uses we've found for modes (the focus lock from underwater mode etc.), why not try to stetch it a bit?

~ Brett

[ryanbrancel]

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/2685/1253793233567008904_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/viewimage?imageID=1253793233567008904)

1/4 sec shutter, f/2.8, slow sync red-eye flash. Shot was taken at 8:50 pm outside Miller Park (Milwaukee, WI), so it was getting dark out at the time.

Here's another shot taken by a friend of mine. I think they could have held the camera more steady, however still an interesting effect
http://aycu32.webshots.com/image/2631/1652572325887082107_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/viewimage?imageID=1652572325887082107)

[nrbelex]

Interesting - I got the following results all at 1/8, f.28 & varying ISOs in what I'm pretty sure (if I remember correctly) was slow-sync mode:

http://aycu11.webshots.com/image/2170/1103234426328492486_rs.jpg

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/2154/1882498779744192781_rs.jpg

http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/2020/1585839187902688862_rs.jpg

~ Brett

[John_Reed]

Great application of this great little camera! Thanks for posting.

[mystro544]

Are you guys preparing the next how-to manual for the tizzy,it inspires
me to take the camera *everywhere* it's such a fast learner. ;)