DSC-V3 review

[daveinaz]

Good job to Jeff for the great review on the DSC-V3. That was an interesting revelation that the V3 image quality is noticeably improved and on par with the G6, when used at wider aperture settings. However, this goes against my ingrained belief that a smaller aperture typically produces sharper images due to increased depth of field and all.

Does anyone have an explanation as to why a wider aperture would improve image quality on a digital camera? Would smaller apertures degrade image quality on other cameras as well? The only thing I can think of is that the smaller aperture resulted in a slower shutter speed which may have caused image blur due to camera movement, but I would bet that Jeff uses a tripod for his testing.

[stuffie]

I do not agree that the V3 has an excelent photo quality. If I look at the V3/G6 shots, I must say that the G6 quality is superior to the V3. And if I look closer, I have to say that the V3 shots look ugly.

[chauncey]

Thanks for the V3 review, Jeff. In the category of dumb questions, and since I think the V3 at larger aperture was superior to the G6...if the camera is in aperture priority mode, can it be used as a "semi" auto--in other words, for those situations where we do not have time to fuss, can the camera do the rest on its own, as my film SLR would?

Chauncey

[Jeff Keller]

Good job to Jeff for the great review on the DSC-V3. That was an interesting revelation that the V3 image quality is noticeably improved and on par with the G6, when used at wider aperture settings. However, this goes against my ingrained belief that a smaller aperture typically produces sharper images due to increased depth of field and all.

Does anyone have an explanation as to why a wider aperture would improve image quality on a digital camera? Would smaller apertures degrade image quality on other cameras as well? The only thing I can think of is that the smaller aperture resulted in a slower shutter speed which may have caused image blur due to camera movement, but I would bet that Jeff uses a tripod for his testing.

I was told that image quality gets worse at smaller apertures due to diffraction of the lens. There's a very technical explanation of this subject here (http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html).

I bet the G6 would have the same issues at F8... the difference is that it doesn't use F8 in normal situations.

[Jeff Keller]

Thanks for the V3 review, Jeff. In the category of dumb questions, and since I think the V3 at larger aperture was superior to the G6...if the camera is in aperture priority mode, can it be used as a "semi" auto--in other words, for those situations where we do not have time to fuss, can the camera do the rest on its own, as my film SLR would?

Chauncey

Well, aperture priority is still pretty automatic. Just make sure the aperture is in the right place and you're set.

[daveinaz]

I was told that image quality gets worse at smaller apertures due to diffraction of the lens. There's a very technical explanation of this subject here (http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html).

That is a very interesting and in-depth explanation... and also a bit hard (for me) to grasp it all. There's a lot more to imaging quality than I knew. Key quotes from the article are rather alarming: "...diffraction, is an unavoidable physical effect that happens regardless of lens quality" and "The smaller the aperture— the larger the f-stop ( N )— the more the image is degraded by diffraction." :eek:

I wonder if the G6 would yield generally better results because, with its faster lens, it could handle a greater range of lighting conditions at a larger aperture?

[stuffie]

Here is some proof of the reason why I believe that the quality of the V3 sux. Just take a look at it and decide which one is better. I can give you more examples on request.

www.komweg.nl/v3g6

[daveinaz]

I too, scoured the 6 photos in Jeff's G6 vs. V3 shootout (http://www.dcresource.com/specials/G6_vs_V3/index.shtml) and at first came to the conclusion that the G6 photo quality was noticeably superior to the V3. However, if only comparing the last 3 photos, where both the G6 and V3 were used at F4, I don't see that the difference is so obvious. This includes the highway photo from which stuffie's crops were made. Maybe its just me, but I scoured that photo and could see differences, but found it very difficult to tell which is better. I finally gave the edge to the G6 based on slightly better sharpness, however, I felt that the V3 color saturation was slightly more pleasing. In Jeff's studio shots, it appeared that the V3 did a better overall job. To state that the V3 image quality "sucks" or is "ugly" is a bit unfair I think.

I do find it quite disturbing that the V3 should be used only at large apertures to get the desired optimum image quality, however, I wonder how many other cameras (including the G6) suffer from this limitation. My own experimentation with an older 3MP Coolpix did not show image degradation at smaller apertures, but apparently things change with increased megapixels, smaller pixels and other things. It would be interesting to see a G6 test of picture quality vs. aperture, or perhaps another G6 vs. V3 shootout, where both cameras were forced to smaller apertures.

[zero]

I bet the G6 would have the same issues at F8... the difference is that it doesn't use F8 in normal situations.

Do you think a firmware update from Sony might fix this Aperture situation?

Cuz I mean there are lot of times when you want the camera to take picture in AUTO settings, but of course, you wouldn't want a slightly blurred picture.

[Jeff Keller]

I wonder if the G6 would yield generally better results because, with its faster lens, it could handle a greater range of lighting conditions at a larger aperture?

I took some test shots on the G6 at F8 just to see what would happen. Image quality was a bit worse, but not nearly as bad as the V3.

[Jeff Keller]

Do you think a firmware update from Sony might fix this Aperture situation?

Well, they could reprogram the camera so it doesn't tend to use those small apertures, and I hope they do that with a firmware upgrade. That can't fix the diffraction issues, though.

[FAUguy]

What diffraction issues are these? I didn't see any mention of that in the review.

[FAUguy]

Here is some proof of the reason why I believe that the quality of the V3 sux. Just take a look at it and decide which one is better. I can give you more examples on request.

www.komweg.nl/v3g6
I printed the last three pictures from the V3 vs G6 page.
On the V3 prints, the buildings/trees on the other side of the water look more clear and in focus. On the G6 prints, the buildings/trees look more fuzzy.

[afhyde]

Jeff Keller's review of the V3 raises several interesting points,
especially his observation that the camera "for whatever reason" always
chooses F8 in program mode, especially when shooting outdoors, "while
the G6 preferred F4," and that with the smaller aperture the Sony
camera's photo quality "starts to go south." I have now tested my V3
very carefully, outdoors, on a variety of subjects, and I would only
partly agree. As it happens, opposite my home are two large brick
buildings, a condominium high-rise and a lower brick structure
(appropriately, perhaps, the Embassy of Japan) whose reflective
qualities seem quite similar to Jeff's church tower. In fact, at one
p.m., with the sun shining down on the condo, this did cause the V3 to
choose F8. But that didn't seem dead wrong; after all, it was a lot of
sun, and this is the camera's smallest aperture. Forced to F4 in
aperture priority mode, the camera had to choose a shutter speed of 1000
to make the correct exposure. And other shots, of both the condominium
and the Embassy, caused the camera to select values ranging from 5.6 to
7.1; in fact it didn't try F8 again. So, my camera at least doesn't
"default" to F8 just because it sees light. Now I don't have a G6. But I
do have an older Canon, the S40, and I was interested to note that with
the two cameras focused identically the Canon consistently chose a
larger aperture (and faster shutter speed) than the Sony. I think this
is a shrewd choice on Canon's part. Digital photography, and these
cameras, are at a very crude stage. They need a lot of light for their
exposures. I don't believe I own a single conventional lens that doesn't
stop down to F22, and I've spent days never opening up more that F11,
values that neither the Sony or Canon can contemplate. Conventionally,
we usually think of shutter speed as a way of stopping action, catching
movement; Perhaps Canon has grasped that clarity and sharpness in these
cameras is the real issue so that it prefers a larger aperture/faster
shutter speed combination in program mode.

Of course, none of the above speaks to a different issue, the quality of
the glass in the Sony lens. A drop off in clarity between F4 and F8 is
to be expected, and on my camera hasn't seemed surprising. But what
about the G6? Jeff says he's made a few tests, but nothing
very exhaustive; it might be an interesting question to explore. I think
the Sony lens was used on an earlier camera, and perhaps it's not up to
the task here: but I wouldn't want to judge finally until I've done more
printing.

Lastly, just for the record, I think the test shots (beginning with
Mickey, as a matter of fact) show the V3 being consistently "sharper",
though this is partly a result of better color saturation. In any case,
I own many cameras (I'm sure my wife could supply the number exactly)
and I'm not unhappy at adding the V3 to my collection.