new DSLR - D50 vs *ist DL2 vs ?

[bloomer]

Here we go... another guy looking for DSLR buying advice. I've tried to give some background to my usage/needs. Sorry for the long post. :o I'm a long-time SLR user (since I was 8yo), but only as an on-and-off amateur. I take lots of travel pics, especially landscape and architecture, and I also enjoy macro photography of flowers and food. * I anticipate doing more ambitious food photography in the near future. * I am used to manual focus - haven't ever used an AF camera for more than the occasional shot.

I've slowly been building up to leaping into digital, in no small part because of cost, but my frustration with awful film processing services in Australia (or everywhere?!) has driven me over the edge. The Nikon D50 seems very attractive, as does the Pentax *ist DL2 (incl the larger LCD, optional use of standard batteries, price, better(?) kit lens). I'm doing a lot of travelling from mid-September, so want to have a camera to be practising with by late July... it's time to decide!

I have been using:

Pentax P30N with
Pentax-A 28-80mm f/3.5-4.5 with macro (closest distance 34cm)
Vivitar 70-210mm f/4.5-5.6 macro focusing zoom (closest distance ca 100cm)
Achiever 260AF dedicated autofocus flash

Macro distances are measured from the lens mount -- I hope that's the correct method. The Vivitar hasn't been used much at all, whereas the flexibility of the 28-80mm has been great (though I'd have liked it to have just a slightly longer zoom).

I have never bought my own equipment -- the camera and lenses were a birthday present; the flash was a recent Xmas present (and it would be wonderful if I could use the flash with new equipment so as not to seem ungrateful to the gift-giver... but reality might not accommodate).

It looks like the kit lens for either camera might leave me a little frustrated at the zoom-end. Not sure.

I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the reading-up I've been doing on DSLRs, so your comments and suggestions would be most welcome!:)

[jeisner]

I've slowly been building up to leaping into digital, in no small part because of cost, but my frustration with awful film processing services in Australia

Hey I'm in Melbourne too, have you tried Vanbar, they've been much better than anywhere else (by a long shot) for me..

http://www.vanbar.com.au/

Sorry slightly Off topic ;-)

As for DSLR I would recommend (over the DL2) finding a DS or the Samsung GX-1S (which is infact a rebadged Pentax DS2)

[bloomer]

Hey I'm in Melbourne too, have you tried Vanbar, they've been much better than anywhere else (by a long shot) for me..
...
As for DSLR I would recommend (over the DL2) finding a DS or the Samsung GX-1S (which is infact a rebadged Pentax DS2)
Hi jeisner:) Vanbar is great, but prices are a bit high for me I think. [oops, I think you meant re film processing, sorry! thanks for tip]

Why the DS or Samsung(DS2) over the DL2? (I've seen comments about DS/DS2 indicating high noise above ISO800 and poorer jpeg images than other candidates)

[coldrain]

The Pentax DS(2) is good in regards to noise, so you do not have to worry there. That the JPEGs of the Pentax are "poorer" is true in a sense. The Pentax does not sharpen much and does not adjust contrast much, giving the photos a lot less impact straight out of the camera.

This has a reason though, leaving the photos relativily untouched gives the photographer more freedom in post processing the photos. Less artifacts to disturb the process.

So, that is your choice. Do you want the possibility to use your old lenses, Get a Pentax *istDS2. Do you not want to post process every photo to get that "pop" factor, then you should consider a Nikon D50 or Canon 350D.

What you also have to do is actually hold the cameras to feel how their controls feel, and how their menu works for you.

[Nesster]

Remenber that the dSLR has a form factor that will benefit you with macros. All your existing lenses will be longer, with higher magnification, with a Pentax body. Your 28-80 will act like a 42-120 on a DS2.

[bloomer]

Thanks for comments re jpegs and the macro-friendly form factor. Both things which I hadn't understood properly:)

Interesting that no-one has yet tried to persuade me to take the D50 path instead:p

[CptOfGondor]

The thing that bogs me about strict entry level dSLRs are their viewfinders. The DL2 might not be a bad choice seeing as how its bundled with the 18-55 and the 50-200 but you've already got some lenses to start with.

Why the DS/DS2 over the DL2/D50/Rebel? You can rule out the D50/Rebel because you've got K Mount glass already unless you want to spend money for a brand new family. You can rule out the DL2...well, its more of a subjective thing but the DL, DL2, GX-1L(DL rebadge), D50, Rebel all have pentamirrors.

The *ist D and DS(2) are the only *ist dSLRs that have pentaprism viewfinders. The *ist family is also a little weak as mentioned on the "out of the box" results but then again, the point of getting dSLRs is the RAW/serious photography right? A little tweak at the settings and you should be able to bridge the offsets in saturation and so on.

[Rhys]

I am interested in the Pentax. I currently have a Canon XT. There's so much to like about the Pentax that could make it better than my XT. I haven't really had a chance to try one though.

[Blob]

As a D50 owner for the past year I can say the Nikon has been a joy to use.

I chose Nikon because of the high quality photos at an affordable price, large selection of lenses and accessories, great metering system, (matrix meter), through the lens flash, (iTTL), low light ability, fast start up time and shutter response time and did I mention price?

Now I really don't have any experience with the Pentax but nothing progresses faster than electronics and the *ist cameras certainly seem to offer many positives too, i.e., a lot of people like the view finder better on the Pentax.

If you have not yet done so, read the forum comments in the dSLR Nikon and Pentax sections of this web site. For more information on the Nikon, nikonians.org has a forum dedicated specifically to the D50, give them a try too.

Good luck, you certainly won't go wrong with either.;)

[jeisner]

Hi jeisner:) Vanbar is great, but prices are a bit high for me I think. [oops, I think you meant re film processing, sorry! thanks for tip]

Yes I meant for flim processing ;-)

Why the DS or Samsung(DS2) over the DL2? (I've seen comments about DS/DS2 indicating high noise above ISO800 and poorer jpeg images than other candidates)

Coldrain answered the noise and JPEG issue already.. I will add that to improve the JPEG straight out of the camera (I admit I like RAW myself) turn it off bright mode (to natural mode) and push the sharpness up, you may want to push saturation too, its personal preference there...

I recommended the DS(2) over the DL(2) as it has a much a bigger viewfinder than the DL(2) or the D50.. I do a lot of macro too and I find Manual focus important for that, so the larger the viewfinder the better. For me the viewfinders in the D50/DL(2)/350D/E500 are just too small, the D or DS are about the bottom limit of what I like.. Coming from Pentax film you will notice even the D/DS(2) are a lot smaller than what you are used too...

But its personal prefence, I would go to say Teds in the city, who stock the Samsung GX-1S (DS2), DL(2) and D50 and compare them side by side, look through the viewfinders and you will see what I mean...

Also the other reason I recommend the Samsung is that in Australia Pentax is distributed by CRK who also distribute Sigma.. So they bundle the Sigma lenses with the Pentax DSLRs, the 18-5x from Sigma is not so good.. If you get the Samsung GX-1S the Schneider lenses that are bundle with it are infact rebadged Pentax lenses DA18-50 and DA50-200, I have compared them (the Pentax badged ones) to their Sigma counterparts and it is obvious to me which ones are better ;-)

P.S. If you are looking for Pentax specific info, check out the Pentax SLR section over at DPReivew, it is surprisingly friendly for a dpreview forum, and full of Australians ;-)

[bloomer]

Coming from Pentax film you will notice even the D/DS(2) are a lot smaller than what you are used too...
Ahhh, yes, that would annoy me. Thanks! The DS2/Samsung is looking like a plan. Thanks too for the Sigma tip.

Thanks also to previous posters -- I guess I had assumed that moving over to digital would mean pretty much starting again as far as lenses go, but some people clearly think my existing lenses might be viable. I'll still go with one modern lens of some sort with the new camera, but won't worry about additional lenses until I've used it a fair bit with new and old.

Would the flash (see original post) still work fine? An early enquiry in a shop resulted in a "it would be too slow" comment.

[jeisner]

Regarding Flash...

On the DL, no it wouldn't, it only supports the newer P-TTL standard...

On the DS(2) or GX-1S all TTL Pentax flashes will work, however the maximum flash sync would be 1/180 (that is the same as the built in flash BTW)... I use an old model vivitar TTL ring flash on my D/DS (cost me around US$99 as the store thought it only worked on film) and it works fine, it just limits my shutter speed to 1/180 at the fastest, which is generally OK for macro..

This is the flash BTW, a bargain if you want a ring flash for macro..

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=210720&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

[bloomer]

It's official (from the local importer, CR Kennedy) -- the DS2 was 'never' intended for release in Australia and was only produced in small numbers. Grey import only in Australia. So it's back to the DS for me. Oh well, I suppose I save about A$500 (based on the price of the Samsung GX1S, also hard to obtain).