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TheNetwerk2020
05-16-2006, 05:10 PM
:confused:

Can the camera zoom in/out during movie mode (while recording) like the Sony DSC-H5 can?

And can you get more out of the video length. Right now, the number I've seen in 9min = 1GB, that's INSANE! Is it true?

BowerR64
05-16-2006, 06:05 PM
The S2 you can, and i agree the .AVI files are huge and crap compression. The S2 uses stereo hifi sound so that maybe why the video files are so large. The thing is these cameras arnt really designed to be a "Video" camera. It doesnt do bad but it could be alot better. I didnt get mine to use it as a video camera. Im sure a canon video camera is WAY more effecient on the file size.

I recorded a 1 minute video file an it was nearly 48 megs in AVI when i reripped it using windows movie maker is compressed it down to about 5 megs.

TheNetwerk2020
05-16-2006, 06:51 PM
The S2 you can, and i agree the .AVI files are huge and crap compression. The S2 uses stereo hifi sound so that maybe why the video files are so large. The thing is these cameras arnt really designed to be a "Video" camera. It doesnt do bad but it could be alot better. I didnt get mine to use it as a video camera. Im sure a canon video camera is WAY more effecient on the file size.

I recorded a 1 minute video file an it was nearly 48 megs in AVI when i reripped it using windows movie maker is compressed it down to about 5 megs.


Well, I'm asking about the S3....

And what do you mean you "reripped it" ? That doesnt make sense. I'd like the files to be as small as possible once on my PC, but for the moment I dont have that software and I've never heard the phrase "reripped" Thanks

adamsfamily
05-17-2006, 03:00 AM
Well, I'm asking about the S3....

And what do you mean you "reripped it" ? That doesnt make sense. I'd like the files to be as small as possible once on my PC, but for the moment I dont have that software and I've never heard the phrase "reripped" Thanks

You won't get many responses if you reply to posts that try to assist in this fashion!!!

Yes the S3 can zoom as does the S2. If you read the information provided on these sites, you would have found that!!

Yes it's true you can only get approx 9 minutes on a 1GB card... if you ewant anymore, buy yourself a video camera!

As Bower64 pointed out he "reripped" the movie once transferred to his PC which reduced the size from 48 to 5mb. That small enough for you??
I'm assuming by reripped he means he changed the format using his PC software....

I would suggest you do some more research too as you seem to have done it on the Sony.

TheNetwerk2020
05-17-2006, 12:19 PM
You won't get many responses if you reply to posts that try to assist in this fashion!!!

Yes the S3 can zoom as does the S2. If you read the information provided on these sites, you would have found that!!

Yes it's true you can only get approx 9 minutes on a 1GB card... if you ewant anymore, buy yourself a video camera!

As Bower64 pointed out he "reripped" the movie once transferred to his PC which reduced the size from 48 to 5mb. That small enough for you??
I'm assuming by reripped he means he changed the format using his PC software....

I would suggest you do some more research too as you seem to have done it on the Sony.

I asked about a specific camera and got an answer about a camera I did NOT ask about. I've seen NOWHERE on these sites that provided the info i was looking for. And changing format is not "reripping." It's changing format.

it's seems you replied for no other reason than to be rude and unhelpful. Get a life. I've done as much if not more research on the S3 as I have the Sony, but could not find answers to questions, so I asked, Exxxxxxxxxxcuse meeee.

bobkeenan
05-17-2006, 01:00 PM
Everyone Take a Big deep Breath..... and relax.

I agree with the original poster.

There is not much S3 info on this site WRT his question. DPReview is a more active forum. I am just lurking around for more info. Even if there was more info at this site I think its ok to ask questions that others think are lame. Forums are all about helping people. Not yelling at their lack of research. And His response to the first answer was appropriate. He asked about the S3 not the S2. And ripping is one of the more over used terms these days. You might as well have said I did "what-not" to the file and brought the size down.

Back to the question of time of video. I have the S3 and a 4gb card. You are limited to 1 GB which means 9 min at the high quality. But the lower quality provides much longer times. With a 4gb card I can run 36 minutes but with a pause between each 1gb section. I am a mac user and , using quicktime pro or other software, I can take any video of any size and make it any smaller size but at a cost of some quality. I have not tried to compress the S3 video yet to see what I get with different codecs at different settings.

I have a SLR, a small compact, and a movie camera. But I hate hauling all of that crap around. The S3 does all of those things but maybe only 80% as well. But its only one thing and not a bunch of things. So I like it.

JPW2020
05-17-2006, 01:14 PM
I asked about a specific camera and got an answer about a camera I did NOT ask about. I've seen NOWHERE on these sites that provided the info i was looking for. And changing format is not "reripping." It's changing format.

it's seems you replied for no other reason than to be rude and unhelpful. Get a life. I've done as much if not more research on the S3 as I have the Sony, but could not find answers to questions, so I asked, Exxxxxxxxxxcuse meeee.
I have just seen bobkeenan's post and I agree.I am not trying to be rude or unhelpful and the replies posted are trying to help.In Movie Mode the S2 and S3 are pretty much the same.the advice given by Bower64 is therefore accurate.I certainly understood what he meant by re-ripping even if the term is not strictly correct.Yes the files will be big but you can save and compress them if you want.If you want smaller movie files you need to look at a camera that uses MPEG-4.I believe the Sony you refer to is not yet on sale yet.It will presumably use MPEG which will gve smaller files but the quality will not be quite as good as the s2/s3.There is a lot of information out there about this if you look for it.I have an S2 and as a compromise between a digicam/videocam it does the job for me.

adamsfamily
05-17-2006, 01:41 PM
I asked about a specific camera and got an answer about a camera I did NOT ask about. I've seen NOWHERE on these sites that provided the info i was looking for. And changing format is not "reripping." It's changing format.

it's seems you replied for no other reason than to be rude and unhelpful. Get a life. I've done as much if not more research on the S3 as I have the Sony, but could not find answers to questions, so I asked, Exxxxxxxxxxcuse meeee.

I'm sorry if you took me to be rude, I was merely pointing out that the previous poster was trying to respond in as positive way as possible!! I just felt your opening comment was unnecessary to someone who thought they were trying to help.

After all, most of us are amateurs and try to help each other, and we occasionally get it wrong, or give diverse answers....

Please be assured that I have nt replied in this manner to cause offence. You will see from my numerous posts, I try to be nothing but helpful, and on this occasion I was trying to clarify the previous answer for you.
I too have not heard of reripping, but again was trying to give you my best interpretation of his answewr.

Apologies again if you feel unjustly treated.

regards

adamsfamily
05-17-2006, 01:58 PM
Just read Bobs response, and read it again, then read my post.

OK, maybe mine appeared a little harsh after reading it twice. For that I have apologised (above), but like JPW states, we are trying to be helpful, but we aren't all perfect.

Lets forget the above and get on with the matter inhand.

I'm sure there are others out there with the S3 now as it's been out a few weeks, so there should be more threads coming up that we can al share our experience in.

Good Luck

TheNetwerk2020
05-17-2006, 02:57 PM
Everyone Take a Big deep Breath..... and relax.

I agree with the original poster.

There is not much S3 info on this site WRT his question. DPReview is a more active forum. I am just lurking around for more info. Even if there was more info at this site I think its ok to ask questions that others think are lame. Forums are all about helping people. Not yelling at their lack of research. And His response to the first answer was appropriate. He asked about the S3 not the S2. And ripping is one of the more over used terms these days. You might as well have said I did "what-not" to the file and brought the size down.

Back to the question of time of video. I have the S3 and a 4gb card. You are limited to 1 GB which means 9 min at the high quality. But the lower quality provides much longer times. With a 4gb card I can run 36 minutes but with a pause between each 1gb section. I am a mac user and , using quicktime pro or other software, I can take any video of any size and make it any smaller size but at a cost of some quality. I have not tried to compress the S3 video yet to see what I get with different codecs at different settings.

I have a SLR, a small compact, and a movie camera. But I hate hauling all of that crap around. The S3 does all of those things but maybe only 80% as well. But its only one thing and not a bunch of things. So I like it.


Thank you thank you thank you. I've looked at DPreview a few times and have not had much luck there either. And there wasnt a lack of research. People do grossly overuse/misuse the word, so it's hard to understand people, totally.

So eventhough there'd be a 4gig card, only 1gig could be of video? That seems really weird to me. You say "at the lower quality" ..how is it lower? Are the dimensions smaller? Sound "worse" ? Can you expand on the differences you are able to notice?

I've never compressed video before, so I'll probably have to brush up on whats free/useful. I'm not looking at it for primarily video (as some users seem to think), but that will be a partial role and I want to make sure it can do it decently :) I havent been able to find any video clips comparing the S3's various levels and such, it'd be nice if Canon was more complete in their product description.. hell that goes for every camera manufacturer!

TheNetwerk2020
05-17-2006, 03:02 PM
I have just seen bobkeenan's post and I agree.I am not trying to be rude or unhelpful and the replies posted are trying to help.In Movie Mode the S2 and S3 are pretty much the same.the advice given by Bower64 is therefore accurate.I certainly understood what he meant by re-ripping even if the term is not strictly correct.Yes the files will be big but you can save and compress them if you want.If you want smaller movie files you need to look at a camera that uses MPEG-4.I believe the Sony you refer to is not yet on sale yet.It will presumably use MPEG which will gve smaller files but the quality will not be quite as good as the s2/s3.There is a lot of information out there about this if you look for it.I have an S2 and as a compromise between a digicam/videocam it does the job for me.

Since I'm solely asking about the S3, the S2 is irrelevant. It may be somewhat accurate, but I've since gotten other feedback in here saying there is much more to the story. The term "re-ripping" is grossly overused and misused, people use the word interchangably and it makes it hard to decipher.

The Sony cameras, for some time now, have been using the MPEG-4. The DSC-H5 goes on sale 06/20, days after my bday, which is why I did my research on it. I have invested greatly in Sony products, but I refuse to re-invest all over again in their new Memory Stick DUO crap. SO I'm switching to a more "Standard" media type, in this case SD.

I've been looking, but havent found what I'm looking for, that's why ask. How dare you people assume others do not do their research and then accuse them of not doing so, when you havent a clue.

David Metsky
05-17-2006, 03:37 PM
I've been looking, but havent found what I'm looking for, that's why ask. How dare you people assume others do not do their research and then accuse them of not doing so, when you havent a clue.
Again, breathe. People are generally friendly here, but insulting folks who are basically trying to help you isn't going to generate more helpful replies.

You can fill a 4 Gig card with video, but it have to be four 1Gig videos. The camera will stop filming when it hits 1 Gig file size (about 9 minutes) and you'll need to start a new video when it's finished writing out the file.

The 9 minute figure comes from 640x480 at 30fps. You can use 320x240 at 30 fps or 640x480 at 15 fps and you'll be able to get proportionally longer videos. Obviously, these videos won't be as high quality as the 640x480 @ 30fps but it may be sufficient for your needs.

I shoot video on my SD300 (essentially the same video modes) and then turn them into WMV files use MicroSoft Windows Movie Maker. It's not ideal, but the file sizes shrink dramatically and I personally don't notice any significant degredation in video quality. The AVI format that the Canon's produce can be manipulated and the size reduced without any big impact on the quality, but it's an extra step and you're still stuck with using up lots of card memory and the 1 Gig limit.

As to zooming while filming, have you read the review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_s3-review/) on this very site?

Two great things about the S3's movie mode are its stereo sound recording and the fact that you can zoom during filming. That ultrasonic motor allows you to zoom in and out silently, just like on a camcorder. As I mentioned in the previous section, you can adjust the microphone sensitivity and sound recording quality. A wind filter helps cut out annoying wind noise in your movies. And while I shouldn't have to say this, the image stabilization system is active during filming.

Glad to have you here. Hope you stay a while.

-dave-

adamsfamily
05-18-2006, 03:19 AM
I've been looking, but havent found what I'm looking for, that's why ask. How dare you people assume others do not do their research and then accuse them of not doing so, when you havent a clue.

What I wrote appears to have been taken the wrong way, and yes, having re-read my post, I can see why.
I have made my apologies, and if you look through my other posts (mostly in Panasonic Forums) you will see that I try, and can be more than helpful.

I think I will duck out of this thread before my comments are taken out of context any further.

I wish you well in your search for info on the S3, and as I said, more people are buying them as they become readily available, so I'm sure all your answers will be fulfilled.

Thanks

Majarvis
05-18-2006, 08:42 AM
I asked about a specific camera and got an answer about a camera I did NOT ask about. I've seen NOWHERE on these sites that provided the info i was looking for. And changing format is not "reripping." It's changing format.

it's seems you replied for no other reason than to be rude and unhelpful. Get a life. I've done as much if not more research on the S3 as I have the Sony, but could not find answers to questions, so I asked, Exxxxxxxxxxcuse meeee.
Take a deep breath and chill out :rolleyes:

If you had done any research at all on the S3, you would know that it is merely a minor upgrade to the S2. So, in that instance, you would have answered your questions already, and would have saved the time in responding in a snooty, arrogant fashion.

How's that for a first post, huh? :p

Forced Perfect
05-18-2006, 12:44 PM
The S2 and S3 have the same video modes. The only difference being the S3 has a 320x240 60 FPS option which produces very smooth video, however, it is limited to 60 seconds (if I recall correctly.)

Both zoom while recording.

Both have the same limits (either 1 hour or 1 GB, whichever comes first.)

Both cameras record stereo sound at a decent quality. It doesn't use that much space in the recording. Video uses much, much more. That's why I suggest always using the best quality mode.

Yes, they both use .avi files encoded in M-JEPG which is basically a series of normal jpg photos used as frames. Sony cameras have been using MEPG-1 and more recently MPEG-4 for video. They produce smaller files and usually do not require a fast memory card. HOWEVER, MPEG looks much worse than M-JEPG (since there's less compression) in my opionion. I've read almost every review here and I've watched many videos and the quality of MPEG-4 videos is worse than the S2/S3 in almost all cases.

The quality does NOT change when you use a video mode other than 640x480 @ 30 FPS. The "smoothness" of movement does change when you reduce the framerate (in fact it is quite choppy,) and the 320x240 videos will look much worse at full screen than the 640x480. But the compression and quality of the frames shouldn't change.

I really think Canon should patch all their cameras with the 1 GB/1 Hour limit to run for the whole card. There is no tecnical reason to have it other than to get people to buy their camcorders.

Majarvis
05-18-2006, 03:54 PM
I really think Canon should patch all their cameras with the 1 GB/1 Hour limit to run for the whole card. There is no tecnical reason to have it other than to get people to buy their camcorders.
It isn't so much the fact that Canon has chosen to put a 1GB file limit on their videos, but rather it is the video format that they have chosen (avi) that did it for them :p

By nature, avi only allows for a maximum file size of 1GB, which is the downfall of Canon's video mode.

If they used a compression like MPEG-4, there wouldn't be any problem at all.

Franko515
05-18-2006, 04:17 PM
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=A0620511

Dell has the S3 IS for $424.15

I called Circuit City where i paid $444 (they matched Costco) and they told me to bring in my reciept for a 110% refund of the difference :p

Forced Perfect
05-18-2006, 05:04 PM
It isn't so much the fact that Canon has chosen to put a 1GB file limit on their videos, but rather it is the video format that they have chosen (avi) that did it for them :p

By nature, avi only allows for a maximum file size of 1GB, which is the downfall of Canon's video mode.

If they used a compression like MPEG-4, there wouldn't be any problem at all.


That doesn't quite explain the 1 hour limit.

Now only if they could cram enough hardware into a camera to encode H.264 in real time...

TheNetwerk2020
05-18-2006, 05:30 PM
Take a deep breath and chill out :rolleyes:

If you had done any research at all on the S3, you would know that it is merely a minor upgrade to the S2. So, in that instance, you would have answered your questions already, and would have saved the time in responding in a snooty, arrogant fashion.

How's that for a first post, huh? :p

I had done my research. Plenty of it, but there were a couple questions that I had yet to see answered, so I asked. I thought that this was one purpose of forums. Had I known people would assume I had done my research and be ass hats, I would not have asked anything.

How's that? It's a stupid comment from a random jerk.

TheNetwerk2020
05-18-2006, 05:32 PM
I really think Canon should patch all their cameras with the 1 GB/1 Hour limit to run for the whole card. There is no tecnical reason to have it other than to get people to buy their camcorders.

Is this something they can do with the S3 via some sort of an update? Or will it have to wait for the next model?

Forced Perfect
05-18-2006, 05:37 PM
Is this something they can do with the S3 via some sort of an update? Or will it have to wait for the next model?

It would depend on the capabilities of the DiGiC II chip. It may only correctly handle JPEG compression and not MEPG. And it simply might not have enough capability outside photo creation to encode that sort of video.

Majarvis
05-18-2006, 06:51 PM
That doesn't quite explain the 1 hour limit.

Now only if they could cram enough hardware into a camera to encode H.264 in real time...
I'm not familiar with this 1 hour limit you speak of on the S3 IS. On Canon's website, it states you can record a video up to 1GB in size or the card's limit, but nothing about a time limit.

Majarvis
05-18-2006, 06:52 PM
I had done my research. Plenty of it, but there were a couple questions that I had yet to see answered, so I asked. I thought that this was one purpose of forums. Had I known people would assume I had done my research and be ass hats, I would not have asked anything.

How's that? It's a stupid comment from a random jerk.
When you overreact and snap back at people trying to help you, then you can't really expect much back, can you? ;)

Majarvis
05-18-2006, 06:54 PM
It would depend on the capabilities of the DiGiC II chip. It may only correctly handle JPEG compression and not MEPG. And it simply might not have enough capability outside photo creation to encode that sort of video.
I have a feeling you're right in this presumption. Perhaps DIG!C III, or whatever Canon chooses to name their next processor, will hopefully encode video in a more efficient, less limiting codec format.

Forced Perfect
05-18-2006, 07:01 PM
I'm not familiar with this 1 hour limit you speak of on the S3 IS. On Canon's website, it states you can record a video up to 1GB in size or the card's limit, but nothing about a time limit.

Yes, that was a mistake. I read "records up to an hour of video" (even though it doesn't quite make it) and for some reason remembered it as being an actual limit. I guess it just happens to get to 1 GB around 1 hour at 320x240 @ 15.

Although I did find this in the S1 review here:

"That's because the S1 cannot store movies larger than 1GB in size (or one hour in length) -- regardless of how large your memory card is. This isn't an issue if you're just recording a few minutes of video."

Majarvis
05-18-2006, 07:55 PM
Yes, that was a mistake. I read "records up to an hour of video" (even though it doesn't quite make it) and for some reason remembered it as being an actual limit. I guess it just happens to get to 1 GB around 1 hour at 320x240 @ 15.

Although I did find this in the S1 review here:

"That's because the S1 cannot store movies larger than 1GB in size (or one hour in length) -- regardless of how large your memory card is. This isn't an issue if you're just recording a few minutes of video."
Yeah, again, it isn't so much a limitation of the S1/S2/S3, rather it is a programmed limit with the AVI video codec, which is what Canon uses as the video file format. AVI limits you to a maximum file size of 1GB, which is a shame, as AVI is uncompressed video and becomes VERY large VERY quickly :(

TheNetwerk2020
05-22-2006, 06:16 AM
I'm not familiar with this 1 hour limit you speak of on the S3 IS. On Canon's website, it states you can record a video up to 1GB in size or the card's limit, but nothing about a time limit.


Everything that I've seen indicates that there is a 1 gig limit per file. So if you had a 4Gig SD card in the S3, you'd get 4, 1gig movies.. is this not correct?

TheNetwerk2020
05-22-2006, 06:18 AM
When you overreact and snap back at people trying to help you, then you can't really expect much back, can you? ;)

Oh, I didnt overreact. But this jerk assumed I hadnt done a damn bit of research and was being an ass. He got called on it. All I did was ask a few questions I hadnt seen answered on any site or such, so I asked. Had I known people would be rude and assumed I hadnt done any research, I probably wouldnt have bothered.

Even then, there seems to be some people saying one thing.. and some other people saying another.

TheNetwerk2020
05-22-2006, 06:21 AM
Yeah, again, it isn't so much a limitation of the S1/S2/S3, rather it is a programmed limit with the AVI video codec, which is what Canon uses as the video file format. AVI limits you to a maximum file size of 1GB, which is a shame, as AVI is uncompressed video and becomes VERY large VERY quickly :(

Eventhough the S3 will not be primarily (barely at all) a video camera, it would nice if I didnt have ridiculously huge files that only last a few seconds here and there.. oh well, hopefully it will help take great pictures :)

JTL
05-22-2006, 06:34 AM
Everything that I've seen indicates that there is a 1 gig limit per file. So if you had a 4Gig SD card in the S3, you'd get 4, 1gig movies.. is this not correct?This is indeed correct...

TheNetwerk2020
05-22-2006, 06:49 AM
This is indeed correct...

ok, thanks you. This confused me:

majarvis:
"On Canon's website, it states you can record a video up to 1GB in size or the card's limit.."

Forced Perfect
05-22-2006, 07:32 AM
Everything that I've seen indicates that there is a 1 gig limit per file. So if you had a 4Gig SD card in the S3, you'd get 4, 1gig movies.. is this not correct?

Yes. Well, more or less. You can in fact fit more than one movie on the S1/S2/S3. But a 2 GB card isn't actually 2 GB when formatted. So you can fit one 1 GB video and a 950 MB (give or take) on the rest. Same goes for a 4 GB card. But there is no limit to how many actual video you have on the card.

TheNetwerk2020
05-22-2006, 07:36 AM
Yes. Well, more or less. You can in fact fit more than one movie on the S1/S2/S3. But a 2 GB card isn't actually 2 GB when formatted. So you can fit one 1 GB video and a 950 MB (give or take) on the rest. Same goes for a 4 GB card. But there is no limit to how many actual video you have on the card.

Yes, i know when they sell 1gig storage, it's not actually 1gig, which I think is really whacked out, but whatever. But since that's what it's being sold as, I'm trying to keep on the same page as it. :)