Class Action, E18

[Phased]

:confused:
The E18 error is getting a lot of attention...

http://www.girardgibbs.com/canon.html

Overzealous litiGATORS, or brave lawyers standing up to the "MAN"?

You be the judge.

[coldrain]

Just because Canon actually puts an error number to a broken lens mechanism does not mean their lenses go broken more often or that other camera makes never show a worn out/failing lens mechanism.

These class action suits in the USA are really getting annoying and lame. You see them pop up all over the place *sigh*. Basically again baseless, although of course there are Canon cameras where the lens mechanism breaks.

[Phased]

Until/Unless I get an E18 of my own, I'd tend to call the lawyers overzealous as well.

I think the real question is: how probable is this mode of failure? If it is higher than other manufacturers, or even other canon models, than I'd understand the hoopla.

Frankly, whether the design of the lens extension mechanism is faulty or not, Canon didn't do a nice job of labeling their errors. I say this because, from what I've read, a variety of unrelated errors, that CAUSE the lens to get stuck, all induce the same error message. That misleads people into thinking that the lens mechanism is faulty.

Then again, the lens extension mechanism may indeed be faulty....
I suppose Canon knows the answer to this.

Phased

[BowerR64]

I have bought about 10 A series canon cameras to fix them (A60 A70). Most of them had the E18 error. Usualy they were from an impact that jammed the unit. there was a few however that were jammed and when i took it apart there was small sand particles in the teeth of the gears. Canon defect? i think not.

I never once out of all the units i took apart found anything faulty with these units.

I can however see a problem, these lenses are telescopic right? there are 3 rings that hold the lenses that make it telescope out. In order for these rings to extend the first one (the one that sticks out the most) needs to be just a tad smaller then the second, and then it needs to be a tad smaller then the third. These "rings" have rubber gaskets that lightly drag on the rings so debris doesnt sit and then get pulled back into the unit when it closes. After so many uses these gaskets wear and then debris can slip past and get into the unit. Defect? or wear?

Seriously, i have looked into the units because i myself own canon cameras. I have also used sony, fuji and i dont see any way around this problem. If you dont want it to happen to you get a "fixed lens" camera (one that does not have extending lenses) this is the only way your going to avoid this issue.

IMO canon did it right. The camera stops and gives an error rather then break like the sony. The sony breaks teeth and then it has to be repaired. Do a search around the net and read about broken gears on the cybershots. They work the exact same way as the canon only their gears are brittle and they have no protection like the canons.

Canon has admited to CCD problems in a few of the OLDER cameras, and the CCD is manufactured by sony. They didnt push the problem on sony they admit its a defect and they repair or replace them free out of their pocket and their name. If there is a design problem with the E18 im sure canon would step up and admit it.

My first canon was an A510, the day i got it i put new alkalines in it and i got a few E18 errors and it did some funny stuff. Then i got a set of NiMH from walmart (2500 duracell) and i didnt once have a problem since. I think 50% of the E18 errors are power related, and the other 50% is an actual mechanical.

Dont listen to what the tv tells you, E3 titanium energizers arnt the most powerful, "BEST" battery for your camera. The rechargable NiMH are! ask any pro photographer what batteries they use in their equipment they will tell you NiMH is all they use.

[Phased]

I guess that settles it then. After as many cameras as Bower has had, I think the statistics of the error have been defined.

(approximately 50% power related, 50% mechanical failure - mostly due to dirt...)

So...

Canon would help itself if it somehow relabeled the (50% power related) problems with some other code other than E18. The best way to achieve this is: 1) if the internal hardware exists (e.g. voltage/current measuring circuitry), put out a firmware update, 2) if the internal hardware doesn't exist, then put out a press release.

(what follows is a shameless appeal to Canon).

If anyone at Canon does see this message and they DO put out a firmware update as I suggested, then might I humbly suggest they increase the 15 second exposure limit. Even if images turn out noisy beyond 15s, let US worry about that.
Thanks CANON!!!

[BowerR64]

I guess if you understand how the unit works you wouldnt be as upset. I totaly understand everyones problem because ive been there. It wasnt till i took mine apart i fully understood what is envolved.

Ive had discussions about what would help them be more stable. My sugestion was to use belts. Belts cant jam like small fine tooth plastic gears but you run into problems with the elastisity of the rubber belt and slippage.

Anything mechanical has a high falure rate, plastic and portable.

I bet if you send the camera in it has either been dropped, there is sand or debris in the gears or it simply needs better batteries.

wana bet some money?

[Phased]

Just to clarify, I have not yet had an E18, or a lens extension problem. In fact I recently purchase the S2 and I've bought a couple more for friends and family that asked for my opinion on cameras. So far, I love the machine. I just started the thread so those in our forum that feel wronged could see that there were others out there. Since I've yet to have an issue with the machine I don't support any ideas of a class action. I just thought it interesting there were enough people out there with the problem that a lawyer got involved. I think there are many people out there that abuse the system, but generally think the companies are more prone to misbehave. In this case however, it seems that Canon is not ill intentioned. As an engineer, I figured I'd offer my technical advice to them regarding the labeling of errors.

I WOULD join a class action to increase the maximum exposure time however.
;)

Phased

[KungFu_Sam]

well, i posted on another thread about my e18 experience, but i'll go ahead and mention it here. i own the sd500 and i bought it in february of 2005 when it first came out. anyways, just this february, i had the e18 error. i did a search on the web and found out that you can get the e18 error not just by getting something stuck in the gears of the lense, but you can also get the error by using your camera when your battery is low, such as was mine. my low battery icon was on, but i was trying to take a few last minute shots of my friends while the club was about to close. so then, my LCD screen went blank and my lense didn't go back into the camera. so i just thought i would wait till i go home and put in my fully charged extra battery before i try to power up the camera again. but when i put in the fresh new battery, i got the e18 error and my lense was stuck. i was lucky enough to still be within my warranty (2 weeks left). i sent it in and they replaced my lense AND my LCD screen, and everything is working just fine now. if that e18 error was my fault, like getting sand in there, i can understand it's not canon's fault. but something like this...i think wasn't my fault. i've own a few cameras before, and everytime i ran out of power in the battery, the lense would at least go back into the camera. BUT, i am still loyal to canon, and i am looking foward to buying the powershot sd700 when that comes out (may 20th hopefully). i think canon has the best quality pictures of any compact point and shoot cameras. i just recomend that if you own a canon and your battery icon is on, don't use your camera anymore till you put in a fresh battery.

[BowerR64]

Well i cant say what was wrong with your error, thats cool that canon fixed it. I think its common because they are the best and everyone and their mom has a canon.

Sony and other cameras have error codes also, i dont think they have to tell you what they are. I think its great that the machine will diagnose itself to keep it easy to trouble shoot.

I put a lens on my S2 and it was too short and insted of stripping the gears when the lens came out it shutdown beeped 3 times and gave me the E18. I just took the lens off and powered it back up.

I guess since i have an idea whats wrong and why there is the error i feel i should post about it.

Maybe i should just mind my own buisness.:confused:

[JTL]

Canon didn't do a nice job of labeling their errors.Most other companies do not label errors at all on their P&S cameras and when they do, they're cryptic messages...

As Coldrain pointed out,...that is the root of the perception issue here.

If Canon was like everyone else and did not label the error, there would be no E18 "problem". Think about it.

[BowerR64]

...lol... :D