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View Full Version : New cam, with T & S LCD and decent macro


John Tropi
10-30-2004, 07:48 AM
The need to buy a replacement camera has become acute since having my (very under-rated) Casio QV 3000 stolen.

Like anyone else, I want the best all-rounder at the best possible price!

Priorities:
1.
I am convinced that a good size tilt & swivel LCD should be top priority, particularly for anyone who wants to photograph models (toys) that spend most of their time below waist level and probably on the floor – in my case, Scalextric racing tracks. I can't see anything more fundamentally essential to taking a good shot than first being able to actually SEE what you are trying to frame! Until you can do that, it seems that nothing else matters. In addition, it enables re-angling the LCD to reduce bright sunlight effect AND protects the LCD when folded into body for storage. This makes SO much plain sense that I can barely believe that no digital SLR fills this requirement and they are all off my list because of it. Having three EOS lenses already (from a film cam) this is incredibly frustrating!

I would really like to see what you think about your own cameras with regard to T & S LCD and its usefulness; whether you wish you had held out for a T & S screen etc.
On that basis, many otherwise excellent cameras are off my short list, including the otherwise very accomplished and excellent value Lumix cams from Panasonic, and Fuji's 7xxx and 5xxx series. Nikon is off too because their LCDs are tiny.

Has anyone rigged up a small off-cam LCD or even a tiny TV to get around the problem?

2.
Reasonable macro ability – I must have crisp close-up detail on my model/toy subjects.

I'm absolutely convinced that I do not NEED more than 3 MPixels, though I’ll probably have no choice here! Other than thumbnail IDs, I doubt I will ever actually print my pics and most certainly NEVER, ever bigger than A4/Letter size.

Here are my latest thoughts, more or less in the order that they overcame me!
Canon Pro-1. 2" LCD, possibly best quality of all, good all-rounder.
Sony F828. 1.8" LCD, tilts but no swivel, good all-rounder in spite of pernickety reviews.
Sony F727. 1.8" LCD tilt but no swivel, good all round, much cheaper than 828 but high cost of Sony Memory Stick tends to cancel this out.
Canon S1 IS. 1.5" LCD is VERY small AND hard to see in sunlight, but great zoom and bonuses of Image Stabilization AND excellent video mode. HALF the price of the others too!

I was about to disqualify the otherwise great little Image Stabilised S1 IS on account of its puny sized and low quality LCD. Then two significant factors emerged into my whirling mind.

One, that I think Canon software can enable a video-out mode during recording. If I have this right, it is immensely significant in that a crappy camera LCD becomes much less important and the S1 IS could go straight back on the list!

Then I thought, if this is so, maybe I can add the Panasonic Lumix FZ20 (2" no T & S LCD) to the list because, on paper at least, it seems better value than any other camera here. But I suspect this camera cannot do video out during record, so am frustrated to hell again, as this would otherwise be top of my class! If I thought Panasonic would introduce tilt & swivel I MIGHT even postpone purchase.

The second significant new factor was the PRICE of spare proprietary batteries, most especially Sony - utterly extortionate!!!!
At one point, the little Canon S1 IS was the ONLY camera on my list, because it was the only one with swivelling LCD AND that used cheap AA batteries. However, I discovered compatible batteries available at less than one third Sony prices, so the earlier list was swiftly re-instated.

I'd gratefully appreciate comments, for better AND for worse on the cameras listed above, most especially from, but not limited to hands-on users - sometimes a more objective view or an unthought-of of point can emerge from un-biased non-combatants!

My common sense is telling me that that, IF it is true that Canon's S1 IS can video out while recording, then it SHOULD be top of my list. But there is this creepy, insidious doubt whether it can possibly be good enough, when it is half the price of the others. What am I missing here, or is it simply that the others are all grossly over-priced?
BIG DILEMMA!

PS. Am now looking at Canon’s A95 as well – please save me from insanity!

Billiam
10-30-2004, 06:31 PM
The need to buy a replacement camera has become acute since having my (very under-rated) Casio QV 3000 stolen.

Like anyone else, I want the best all-rounder at the best possible price!

Priorities:
1.
I am convinced that a good size tilt & swivel LCD should be top priority, particularly for anyone who wants to photograph models (toys) that spend most of their time below waist level and probably on the floor... I can barely believe that no digital SLR fills this requirement and they are all off my list because of it.


SLR's CAN"T use the LCD for live preview because of their basic design. The mirror blocks light from reaching the sensor, so there's nothing to display.

PS. Am now looking at Canon’s A95 as well – please save me from insanity!

You might also want to look at the Canon G6. If you're shooting models indoors, a fast lens and a hot shoe would be good to have. The G6 has both.

John Tropi
10-31-2004, 03:06 AM
Thanks for the reply, Billiam.
Yes, so sad about no pre-view for digital SLRs!
I would have bought the 300D without any hesitation if not for that. :(

Canon A95 is now definitely off my short list, having discovered no diopter adjustment on the view finder - pretty well esential for specs wearers.
Yes, will study the Canon G6 more carefully today. :)

tompagenet
10-31-2004, 05:41 AM
Sony F727. 1.8" LCD tilt but no swivel, good all round, much cheaper than 828 but high cost of Sony Memory Stick tends to cancel this out.


If you only want 3MP then the F717 sounds ideal. I think the images I got from my F717, macro very much included, were superb. Memory sticks really aren't that expensive - you can get a 512MB MS Pro for only £50, which must be about $80 max. You can, as you've spotted, swivel the whole camera so that the LCD points upwards - the Electronic View Finder is good for all other uses. Thoroughly recomended!

Jayde
10-31-2004, 06:01 AM
John.
see comment from "aaaava" bought a Canon SI IS.. NOT GOOD
http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422
and it takes soft images compared to FZ3 or FZ range
see the comparison pics
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz3/

your asking a lot of a digi cam, maybe a camcorder would fit the bill... ?
or a compromise... both.. :D
sonys c/c take great still pics now but not cheap..

John Tropi
10-31-2004, 06:43 AM
Yep!
Am asking as much as I can get for my money, from what may be my last camera and no apologies for that!
Video isn't actually needed, but it sure is a nice bonus at that quality. :)

Comparisons with Lumix - I agree, my off-setting dilemma being no tilt & swivel LCD on the Lumix. I am hoping for a definitive reply from Panasonic as to whether off-cam video monitoring is in any way feasible. If it is, then I head towards the FZ20 and, if not, I continue to stagger around wondering what is the best compromise as I think I would be crazy not to get the best LCD I can on this occasion. I suppose if I take long enough, my perfect camera will arrive on the market!

randomgr
11-01-2004, 10:15 AM
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/a75_pg6.html

not sure if this program is included or you have to buy it but that's what you wanted: AAA batteries, a low price, few MPs and most of all: to view images remotely.. I'm not sure whether you wanted to be a computer or a tv but check the link out

also: check out the A95 (which has swiveling lcd) on the same site

John Tropi
11-03-2004, 12:46 PM
I'm still doing some research daily.
What popped up today was a special deal on the Canon 300D, offering £100 rebate from Canon on mailing in the receipt and claim form, plus a free 256MB CF card on registering at theCanon Image Portal. The price was already exceedingly low and, with this offer, looks simply amazing. It looks suspiciously as though there might be a replacement on its way from Canon . . .

It still doesn't have a T & S LCD though - one of my pre-requisites!
But it is rumoured that some software from Breeze Browser can enable a preview mode. I couldn''t figure out just what this software can really do.
Is anyone familiar with it?
This facility at that price would put the 300D straight back to the top of my list - in fact I would probably just go for it without further ado!

haikai
11-03-2004, 01:13 PM
Canon A95 is now definitely off my short list, having discovered no diopter adjustment on the view finder - pretty well esential for specs wearers.
Yes, will study the Canon G6 more carefully today. :)

well, the g6 uses proprietary batteries which you seemed to have an issue with. however, if you were willing to put up with a small lcd in the other camera because it might be capable of video out (which i can't confirm cuz i've never used one) then you might also be willing to live with the proprietary battery because you can opt to just get an ac adapter and run the camera that way without worrying about batteries. i figure if you're willing to do video out to a tv then an ac adapter shouldn't be too big a deal either since it sounds like you'll be right next to an outlet most of the time.

hai

John Tropi
11-03-2004, 03:11 PM
Hi Haikai!

Since discovering availability of 'compatible' replacements for most proprietary batteries, I am now more willing to accept them. :)

Canon G6, therefore, is on my list. It seems to be an excellent camera from all my extensive reading. I hate to admit it, but I find I am quite prejudiced against its nasty shiny silver appearance! Totally illogical I know, but shiny silver plastic puts me right off. I might have to overcome this aversion in view of its undeniably good performance, pretty well universally agreed wherever I look! So G6 replaces A95 on my short list and I am still thinking hard and still open to comment. :-)

John Tropi
11-05-2004, 03:56 PM
Having posted earlier that I had crossed off the A95 due to its lack of a dioptric adjustment on the optical view finder and particularly in view of several people mentioning the A95, I though I should add something new to this.

Today, I managed to get hands on an A95 - I nearly didn't bother.
When I did, I was completely amazed to discover that, without glasses, I could see perfectly clearly through the optical view finder! This should not have been possible with my eye sight but it IS. Just mentioned it in case my moaning about lack of this gadget would put anyone else off this camera (as it originally did me)!