Camera buying help: Pentax ist dl v. Nikon D50

[camerajill]

Budget

<<less than $600 (looking for a low-end, intuitive, entry SLR)>>

Size

<<The smaller the better.>>

How many megapixels will suffice for you?

<<6>>

What optical zoom will you need? (None, Standard = 3x-4x, Ultrazoom = 10x-12x, Other - Specify)

<<I'm a beginner, so I'm not sure.>>

How important is “image quality” to you? (Rate using a scale of 1-10)

<<10. Very important. I'm so frustrated with the image quality I current receive from my standard 5 mp digital.>>

Do you care for manual controls?

<<As I mentioned, I'm a beginner, but I hope to take a class and learn about the manual controls (someday), but I'd like it to be as intuitive/automatic as possible so I can pretty much get rolling right out of the box.>>

What will you generally use the camera for?

<<Photographing babies and children, general indoor/outdoor shots.>>

Will you be making big prints of your photos or not?

<<The largest I'd go would be 8x10, but most often 5x7.>>

Will you be shooting a lot of indoor photos or low light photos?

<<Yes.>>

Will you be shooting sports and/or action photos?

<<Yes.>>

Are there particular brands you like or hate?

<<No.>>

Are there particular models you already have in mind?

<<Yes, looking at the Pentax ist dl or the Nikon D50.>>

Do you need any of the following special features? (Wide Angle, Image Stabilization, Weatherproof, Hotshoe, Rotating LCD)

<<Image stabilization. I'm always getting blurry shots of my kids with my current digital (not an SLR).>>

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR OPINION!!!

[Blob]

As a D50 owner I've been very happy with my choice. The camera is responsive, takes beautiful pictures compared to point and shoot cameras and challenges me to take better pictures. I'm sure the same can be said with the Pentax, (though I have heard the new Pentax isD2 is even better than the original).

Nikon does offer image stabilized lenses called "VR" lenses. They also offer a larger number of lenses than Pentax, especially if you consider 3rd party lenses like Tokina, Tamron and Sigma.

Many people find the digital SLR's decrease blurry images as compared to Point & Shoot cameras because the better SLR lenses are faster, (lower f-stop number such as 2.8), consequently the shutter speed of the camera is faster. Digital SLR's can also shoot in lower light situations by increasing their sensitivity to light, they do this by increasing their ISO. This also helps to decrease blurry photos from camera shake.

Both cameras will provide beautiful results. Which ever camera feels better in your hands is probably the way to go. The photographer is the most important element in producing a quality photo, not the camera.

[jeisner]

I think based on your requirements each of those camera will serve you very well....

If you haven't yet go into the store (with an SD card) try the cameras out, see which feels best for you to use, take a few shots on your SD card (playing around with various settings as long as the store people will put up with you) then go home and review..

Honestly as I said earlier either of those cameras will easily meet your requirements, so it is just a matter of which you like to use more..

EDIT: One point I missed- IS/VR, with Pentax there are currently no IS lenses, in fact I doubt there will be as the new model(s) coming out towards the end of the year will have in body SR (shake reduction)... But remember you have a much larger usable ISO range with a DSLR than with a P&S so you may find IS/VR less of a requirement (maybe sample shots in the store will help you determine that)... If you find you think you really need IS/VR now and can afford the lenses ;-) then at least until the end of the year, out of Nikon and Pentax, Nikon would be the obvious solution...

[Rhys]

I think based on your requirements each of those camera will serve you very well....

If you haven't yet go into the store (with an SD card) try the cameras out, see which feels best for you to use, take a few shots on your SD card (playing around with various settings as long as the store people will put up with you) then go home and review..

Honestly as I said earlier either of those cameras will easily meet your requirements, so it is just a matter of which you like to use more..

EDIT: One point I missed- IS/VR, with Pentax there are currently no IS lenses, in fact I doubt there will be as the new model(s) coming out towards the end of the year will have in body SR (shake reduction)... But remember you have a much larger usable ISO range with a DSLR than with a P&S so you may find IS/VR less of a requirement (maybe sample shots in the store will help you determine that)... If you find you think you really need IS/VR
now and can afford the lenses ;-) then at least until the end of the year, out of Nikon and Pentax, Nikon would be the obvious solution...

Given that my XT is such a PITA to use and upgrading would cost at least $1,000, I might be selling it soon - together with all my lenses in order to buy the new Pentax if it maintains AA battery capability.

[camerajill]

<<One point I missed- IS/VR, with Pentax there are currently no IS lenses, in fact I doubt there will be as the new model(s) coming out towards the end of the year will have in body SR (shake reduction)... >>

I'm such a newbie here...so does this mean I might have more of a tendency to get blurry shots with the Pentax? I don't intend to buy any other lens than what comes with the kit of either camera (18-55) for right now, fyi.

I guess I just want to go with the one that 1. takes the best shots without too much tweaking in a digital editing program and 2. is the easiest to use for complete novices like me.

[Rhys]

I checked Pentax's website:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200603.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpentax%2B*ist%2BDL2%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D %26rls%3DGGLR,GGLR:2005-39,GGLR:en

Apparently the *ist DL2 will be 6.1 megapixels, not 10.

[jeisner]

I checked Pentax's website:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200603.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpentax%2B*ist%2BDL2%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D %26rls%3DGGLR,GGLR:2005-39,GGLR:en

Apparently the *ist DL2 will be 6.1 megapixels, not 10.

Yes the DL2 is a minor uprage to the DL, it has already been available here for a few months... Basically Pentax make cameras in a big batch and when the sell out they tend to change a little in the next run.. The only difference between the DL and DL2 is 3 point vs. 5 point AF system..

Its not the new 10mp SR model shown at PMA, that will be released around September, bit of a wait still...

[jeisner]

I'm such a newbie here...so does this mean I might have more of a tendency to get blurry shots with the Pentax? I don't intend to buy any other lens than what comes with the kit of either camera (18-55) for right now, fyi.


No, if you are not buying special (more expensive) VR/IS lenses then the Nikon and Pentax will be no different in that regard... The Nikon kit lens (18-55) most certainly does not have VR/IS built in...

Basically IS/VR is a mechanical system built into the LENS (for a price premium) that stabilises your shots. AS or SR that Pentax is putting in their next two models (due around Sept) is built into the CAMERA so all lenses will have stabilisation. IS/VR in lenses is generally more efficient especially at longer focal lengths. However it will cost you more for every lens, rather than a once of premium for the camera with stabilisation built in...

So if you are not buying a more expensive VR lens, that means that ATM neither camera will have an advantage in that respect. I noticed in the other thread you were looking for a good all-around lens. Most of us recommended the 18-125 from Sigma which is available in both Nikon and Pentax mounts. So again I think you are back to trying both cameas out in the store and seeing which you like to use best. I think VR is a bit of a red hearing here as it isn't going to help unless you buy VR lenses..

If VR is that important to yout then in that respect the Nikon lens below gives you the good walk range 18-200 that you wanted, and has VR..

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=408518&is=USA&addedTroughType=search

Review of it below, seems very positive...

http://www.bythom.com/18200lens.htm

[DonSchap]

I was scanning the cable channels, in search of visual sustanance, when something just caught my eye as I went by. Backing up and watching, you could have knocked me over with a feather, as I watched this normally over-priced "source" offer up the Pentax ist DL w/ KIT lens for only $599.00!

10941

Heck, that's cheaper than most places want for the body, alone!

Now, this is a camera pretty parallel with the Nikon D50. SO much so, it's kind of wierd. Anyway, the DL sports something rather unique... at this time... a 2.5" LCD! Now that's a serious look when you are shooting, to be sure. It also has built in filtering... and that's, well...

as Darth Vader is prone to say...

10940

"Most impressive." :cool:

[jeisner]

Yeah the price wars are getting crazy... In Australia the DL retails (at generally overpriced camera stores) for I think from memory AUD$899 with kit lens ($100 more for Sigma 18-125), extremely competitive.. The Nikon D50 with kit is also at unheard of prices (at least for here) at AUD$999..

[timmciglobal]

http://buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PKISTDL1855

498 including kit lens.

Tim

[camerajill]

Thanks a lot for the info. One final question...any opinion on whether the AF-assist lamp is really necessary? On the comparison page within the digital camera database, I see that the Nikon D50 has this feature, while the Pentax IST DL does not.

I did test-drive them both today and liked the feel of the Pentax slightly better, since it's smaller in size, but picture quality is what I'm most concerned about and I read in another thread that the Pentax quality is slightly compromised (a poster referenced having to do a lot of tweaking in a photo editor).

[DonSchap]

Dog gone, Tim! Nice find... $100 cheaper and no limited supply. How good is life, I ask you? :D

A $50.00 rebate applies until July, also.

If this keeps up, they will be paying us to use their products... as if :rolleyes:

[Blob]

I appreciate the auto focus assist lamp. Under low lighting conditions the AF assist helps the camera focus faster so the photo is obtained faster than if the lens had to hunt for the proper point of focus. If you feel you will be taking pictures in low light environments such as evening parties, performances, indoor photos, etc., the AF assist is very helpful. I felt it was an important positive in my decision to purchase the Nikon D50.

If you do suffer from some dysfunctional fine motor control, i.e. Parkinson's disease, primary dystonia, etc., you may want to consider the Konica Minolta 5D. It is still available, I saw it at Circuit City today, eventhough the company has sold it's production to Sony. The 5D camera has built-in image stabilization like the future Pentax so you are less restricted on the lenses used.

You mayfind this link helpful

http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1924

Good Luck

Bob

[jeisner]

I did test-drive them both today and liked the feel of the Pentax slightly better, since it's smaller in size, but picture quality is what I'm most concerned about and I read in another thread that the Pentax quality is slightly compromised (a poster referenced having to do a lot of tweaking in a photo editor).

Pentax with the D and DS (esp the D) took a less in camera sharpening approach as once any damage is done through sharpening it isn't going to be undone. So they leave it to you, I like that approach myself.. However with the DL you can turn up the in camera sharpening quite a bit more than my D, and get a similar output to the D50.. Again that said at 6x4 and 8x10 even if you didn't turn it up I doubt you would notice much difference, but the point I guess is they have given more lattitude in the DL for people who want to turn it up and not Post-Process..

I also find a less sharpened picture often looks better when printed, sharpening up heaps can look great onscreen but not as nice when printed (that may just be my personal taste though, so pinch of salt needed)...

[coldrain]

Yesterday I held an *istDL (again) in a camera shop, and was surprised how cheap and plastic it actually feels. And that coming from a 350D owner. The buttons feel very very cheap and just not responsive, whether it is the normal buttons, the directional selection dail thing, or even the program selection dial on top. No sense of that you have a quality product in yoru hands. Not the mention that they also look a bit childish, not sure what causes that impression).

Since the DL's image quality is not as good at all as that of the D50, (it is NOT the same as the *istDS/DS2) and it feels so cheap (it really does! go try one at a camera shop, you will be surprised how cheap the controls feel compared to a 350D or D50), there is no reason at all to choose a DL over a D50 unless you are Rhys (he has a thing for AA batteries, no matter what).

He calls the 350D a pain in the ass to use... wait till he gets to hold an actual Pentax :rolleyes:

[Rhys]

Yes the DL2 is a minor uprage to the DL, it has already been available here for a few months... Basically Pentax make cameras in a big batch and when the sell out they tend to change a little in the next run.. The only difference between the DL and DL2 is 3 point vs. 5 point AF system..

Its not the new 10mp SR model shown at PMA, that will be released around September, bit of a wait still...

I like the idea of the new model. Any ideas on where I could find the specifications?

[jeisner]

No sense of that you have a quality product in yoru hands.

Funny I get the same impression from the 350D, though here with kit the 350D costs AUD$1399 versus the DL at AUD$899 with kit..


Not the mention that they also look a bit childish, not sure what causes that impression.

Must be those fanboy blinkers again? :cool:

[Rhys]

Must be those fanboy blinkers again? :cool:

Lol. You should see the personal attack he made in another thread! And all because my experience of the XT proves it to be unresponsive and fiddly to use. Definitely not intuitive design and the depenance on non-standard batteries is not all that handy. I can't nip into a shop to buy a battery for the XT unless I use the battery grip in which case I have to carry the AA battery holder as well as the other holder. I'm just not keen on the power source. The focus is a bit iffy too and there's no manual focussing aid unlike the Pentax.

[jeisner]

Lol. You should see the personal attack he made in another thread!

Yeah, well, I think it a bit trollish to use another thread as an excuse to attack people again! Very trollish but apparently acceptable here, getting a bit like some of the forum sections over at dpreview...


I like the idea of the new model. Any ideas on where I could find the specifications?

They haven't released full details yet, the body was on display at PMA this year. In regards to controls it was very much like the original ist D.. The only real details they gave at PMA was that it was 10mp and will be released around Sept..

After PMA I read an interview with their CEO, and he gave more details such as the addition of SR.. He also said the electronics (CPU/memory) would be designed and supplied by Samsung, and it would be aimed at the D200 feature/market level (faster and much larger buffer than any previous pentax DSLRs).. (I will ask on the Pentax forum if anyone has the link to the article still..)