Beginner questions - attachment lenses for FZ30 [Archive]

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bigpapajoe

03-08-2006, 06:37 PM

Hey all, my first post here...I read around some threads, but couldn't really find what I was looking for. I have a ton of questions, so bear with me.

I just placed an order for the FZ30, seems like a good starters camera. I want to buy a wide angle lens. Since I'm new to photography, I have no idea how wide 0.7x is compared to say 0.38x.

With that being said, I don't mind minor distortion as long as the picture is full (no dark corners due to bad lens etc.). I want a lens for landscape photos, so I want something that offers extended horizontal boundaries while still maintaining the relative vertical boundaries. My friend told me that what Im talking about is a fisheye lens, but I don't really know the difference. Should I be looking for a wide angle or a fisheye, or are they the same?

Also, I don't have a steady job (I'm only 17 and in HS) and no allowance, so I've been saving up for the past few years or so...needless to say I don't really have the funds to buy a $150 lens along with all the filters I want plus memory and external flash, so I'm trying to keep this specific purchase as wallet friendly as possible.

I've been looking on the B&H website, and I dont really see that many options for 55mm. I have seen one that I like for 49mm, and was wondering how a stepdown adapter from 55mm to 49mm would affect quality of photos?

heres the lens I like:

Kenko 0.5x wide angle lens, 49mm thread (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=90410&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)

How does that compare to this one as far as quality of image goes:

Kenko 0.38x wide angle lens 52mm thread (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=327443&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)

I wish it was in black so it would match my camera...but beggars can't be choosers I guess

All in all, I want a decent wide angle (as wide as possible) without sacrificing too much quality and making a hole in my wallet.

My uncles a photographer and he got me into the hobby so I know this camera wont be a disappointing purchase for me, especially since I'm still learning. Next year in college I'll get a job and get some serious upgrades (if I find that its something I will be doing for a long time) but for now I am still experimenting.

Thanks for reading this, I know its long and some of the questions may seem dumb but I am really eager to learn about everything photography has to offer. With the funds that I have, I have to make my first choice the right choice.

Best Regards,
Joe

gwhizkids

03-08-2006, 06:52 PM

I'll leave it to the more advanced members to answer your questions, but, boy, you are the most advanced beginner I've ever seen! :D

tim11

03-08-2006, 07:07 PM

....you are the most advanced beginner I've ever seen! :D
DITTO.
Is this a serious post? If you really don't know much about lenses and all and short in budget, why not just get the camera and experiment with it for a while. I'm sure something like FZ30 will get you busy for a while. And then you can decide from there if tele, wide or fisheye will be your game.

suzleigh

03-08-2006, 07:11 PM

bigpapajoe

03-08-2006, 07:21 PM

DITTO.
Is this a serious post? If you really don't know much about lenses and all and short in budget, why not just get the camera and experiment with it for a while. I'm sure something like FZ30 will get you busy for a while. And then you can decide from there if tele, wide or fisheye will be your game.

haha, Im a beginner because of the fact that this is my first camera over $500...I've played around with my uncle's cameras before, so I know the basics...I want this lens because I'm going on a cruise in the British Isles/visiting my family in Italy the summer, and figured a wide angle would be handy for the breathtaking scenery of Sicily and Ireland. After all, this is the only chance I have in the next 10 years or so to capture it...you know what Im saying?

nothing that fancy, just a wide lense

LoveLife

03-08-2006, 07:43 PM

Wow... I too am impressed at the knowledge of this 'beginner'.

Based largely on information in this forum, I purchased the TCON 14-B. I've tried to read through other posts to determine the adapter ring I need for my FZ20, but I'm a little lost.

Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

SuzLeigh
On Ebay search "cring fz20" or "phayee". You need an adapter that supports 62mm mount. You should also get a 62mm UV to enclose the mechanicals and leica front element.

genece

03-09-2006, 06:53 AM

I never had a fisheye lens but I am prettey sure it would not be what you are looking for.....and IMHO a WA lens is wide angle in all dimentions.

Perhaps if you just stiched some photos into a small panorama would give the results your looking for.

The widest lens I have seen good photos from on the FZ30 is the HD6600 - 55 from raynox.

I do not think you would be happy with either of the 2 lens you mentioned.

If you want a cheap WA the Raynox 720 or 730 may fit your needs I have the 720 and while its not a great lens there is no vignetting and a modest amount of distortion..

StanStan

03-09-2006, 07:09 AM

I want a lens for landscape photos, so I want something that offers extended horizontal boundaries while still maintaining the relative vertical boundaries. My friend told me that what Im talking about is a fisheye lens, but I don't really know the difference. Should I be looking for a wide angle or a fisheye, or are they the same?

Best Regards,
Joe

From what you said I believe you should look into making panoramas. It is easy to do and can make great images of any series of images that overlap a little, vertically and/or horizontally. There are many programs that do all the hard work except for the taking of the individual pics. They do the 'stitching' and all you do at the end is crop the rough edges.
That brings up the subject of Post Processors. If you do not have one I suggest Photoshop Elements. Also, get a few books on the subject. Adobe Photoshop CS One on One by Deke MeClelland, Rick Sammon has two books published. Making images ready for presentation is about 50% in the camera, and 50% in the post processing necessary to finish the images.
BTW For the Panorama Stitching I use http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html

It does almost everything automatically. Great results. Better than a fisheye which I do not like due to massive distortion . The WCON 07, the one with 55mm threads and a 55mm to 62mm step up ring and a THIN 62mm to 55 step down ring to push the lens out to a better position to prevent a soft spot in the center of the image. Good for inside shots.
Still like stitching better for landscape shots. Good luck
StanStan

PS Some times it is better to split up your post and submit one question at a time over multiple posts.

bigpapajoe

03-09-2006, 03:35 PM

PS Some times it is better to split up your post and submit one question at a time over multiple posts.

:o Sry about that! I'll remember that in the future.

Stitching sounds like a great idea...would I need a tripod or would it be good enough to shoot two images by hand?

Thanks!

genece

03-09-2006, 03:45 PM

For me a tripod is a must but I have seen very nice ones handheld.....if your steady enough and develop a technique I imagine you can do it handheld.

Thats the nice thing about digital once you have the camera its mostly free.

Just start practicing.

StanStan

03-09-2006, 05:33 PM

:o
Stitching sounds like a great idea...would I need a tripod or would it be good enough to shoot two images by hand?
Thanks!

I have done 6 horizontally by 2 vertically and they came out quite nicely without the use of a tripod. Try it you might like it.
Of course a tripod will make it easier. Just turn off image stabilization and use a remote trigger or the ten second timer delay. Use of a tripod depends on how critical you are. Handheld needs a shorter shutter time and a smaller aperture [higher number] than tripod pictures and use image stabilization 2.
I set the display for rule of thirds to get the horizontal/vertical lines to help a little in taking multiple images. Just make sure they overlap. If they do not overlap it confuses the stitching program. The amount of overlap is not critical. Just follow the image sequence that is required by the program. If the order is wrong just rearrange the sequence.
Download the starter program and play. The work flow is not hard. Very satisfying! Since you are in school yet, it is nice to try without paying one red cent! Fortunately young people are sponges.
BTW: My first tripod was $5 on EBAY. Still have it and use it if I have to walk far as it is light and compact enough to fit in my pocket. My other one needs to be on a sling over my shoulder.

http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html

StanStan

bigpapajoe

03-09-2006, 07:02 PM

I downloaded the free version - but I just can't figure it out. I've run about 8 sets of photos through it - 4 of them had errors, 4 of them made it to a panoramic jpeg. The 4 that made it were terribly disfigured and distorted. Am I missing something here? There must be some type of order I have to follow or something. I couldn't find anything on their website. The error I run into says "no image matches found". I'm positive I'm doing something wrong here.

Oh, PS - what kind of tripod do you use for your FZ30, StanStan? I've been looking for a pocket tripod that can support 1.63 lbs, but I haven't found much yet. Any suggestions?

StanStan

03-09-2006, 08:05 PM

StanStan

03-09-2006, 08:10 PM

Oh, PS - what kind of tripod do you use for your FZ30, StanStan? I've been looking for a pocket tripod that can support 1.63 lbs, but I haven't found much yet. Any suggestions?[/quote]

The small tripod I can put in my pocket is a Sakar TR-1S which I EBAYed for $5. Not very good. Do not know if I would suggest you buy it as I do believe there must be better ones out there.

StanStan

03-09-2006, 08:39 PM

[quote=bigpapajoe]I downloaded the free version - but I just can't figure it out. I've run about 8 sets of photos through it - 4 of them had errors, 4 of them made it to a panoramic jpeg. The 4 that made it were terribly disfigured and distorted. Am I missing something here? There must be some type of order I have to follow or something. I couldn't find anything on their website. The error I run into says "no image matches found". I'm positive I'm doing something wrong here.

I just tried the Autostitch program on their supplied images. Good place to start. Open Autostitch; File; Open; Select all images from 100-0023... to 101-0104....; Open; Let it run; all images will be merged automatically.
To make sense of this open the first image in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer. Look at the images in order. You should see all the bottom half of the mountain from left to right and then the top half of the mountain from left to right. I kept this order as in the example to simplify my initial image sequence. When you figure this out take your own seguence of bottom and top images: select all; open; and let it run. Then learn to change the many options.

bigpapajoe

03-09-2006, 09:09 PM

Thanks StanStan, I really appreciate it. I'm impressed with this program! Can't wait to learn how to do it right.

StanStan

03-10-2006, 08:15 AM

Thanks StanStan, I really appreciate it. I'm impressed with this program! Can't wait to learn how to do it right.

What I suggest is to take a series of 6 images. Start on the left and take six photos of the scene. Bottom left, bottom middle, bottom right and then top left, top middle, top right. Then let Autostitch stitch them. I am just amazed how the program corrects for exposure.
Please post the cropped stitched panorama. I would love to see it.

Donte

03-10-2006, 12:55 PM

Here are a couple I took with that program. All where taken with out a tripod.

http://donte.smugmug.com/photos/57340287-L.jpg

http://donte.smugmug.com/photos/58413740-L.jpg

This one is kind of strange. Can anyone see the problem?:D

http://donte.smugmug.com/photos/58413743-L.jpg

gwhizkids

03-10-2006, 01:42 PM

...unless they have invented transparent sails, I think your problem's with the sailboat.

StanStan

03-10-2006, 01:57 PM

I really do not see anything wrong with the picture. As to the sailboat it may be going upwind under power????

LoveLife

03-10-2006, 02:04 PM

Here are a couple I took with that program. All where taken with out a tripod.

This one is kind of strange. Can anyone see the problem?:D

http://donte.smugmug.com/photos/58413743-L.jpg

Picture above did you have a polarizer on the lens?

StanStan

03-10-2006, 05:06 PM

There are some very nice panoramas in the thread: "New Panoramas" on:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FZ10_Users/

Donte

03-10-2006, 05:07 PM

...unless they have invented transparent sails, I think your problem's with the sailboat.

And we have a winner:p I still don't understand why it did that.

Donte

03-10-2006, 05:11 PM

Picture above did you have a polarizer on the lens?

Nope sure didn't. I do have one made by Quantaray but it always makes the picture look worse to me. Quantaray must be a crappy filter.

bigpapajoe

03-10-2006, 09:51 PM

Donte

03-11-2006, 04:15 AM

Maybe you need more over lap.

StanStan

03-11-2006, 05:46 AM

I tried it once more using your directions and still get the same error. I think I may know what it is though. The images I am trying to make are rather close up (and the objects are 3d of course). If you shift to one direction, the look of the same object is completely different. For example, take my sink:

It is at the very right of the picture. Notice how you cannot see the "bend" in the faucet.

Photo taken at same level - but sink looks nothing like the first photo.

Think this could be the problem?

That is a matter of perspective. Look at a tire on your car from the front, no circle [|], then from the side, a circle [O].

If the subjects are close up you MUST pan [pivot] your camera around one vertical axis. You cannot move the camera either horizontally or vertically or you will get parallax [perspective] errors as in your sink photos. Autostitch is unable to correct that and the stitching will either be messy or will produce an error message

If hand held just emulate camera movements as though the camera was on a tripod.

Autostitch does require a LOT of overlap to work: almost a quarter of the image. Horizontally and vertically! Then it does not get confused. Look at the README.TXT that comes in the download.

bigpapajoe

03-11-2006, 09:50 AM

oops! My beginner is showing :o

I haven't been panning...Ive been shooting horizontally and vertically - About to do try number 9, will post results.

Thanks again!

StanStan

03-11-2006, 10:02 AM

This is a 9 image pano of my backyard of about 270 degrees taken today.

bigpapajoe

03-11-2006, 10:31 AM

Well its not much, but here is my first succesful panoramic photo:

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/d56/d564b438140e9146a5c460849dd54315.jpg

Its 3 long and 2 high - a little off center, but I'll get the hang of it with practice.

bigpapajoe

03-11-2006, 10:33 AM

StanStan - all I can say to your 270 pano is "Wow!"

Have you ever done a 360? That would be interesting to see!

StanStan

03-11-2006, 11:19 AM

Well its not much, but here is my first succesful panoramic photo:

Its 3 long and 2 high - a little off center, but I'll get the hang of it with practice.

It does not look like you used flash. Try again.

From a pano viewpoint it is a good shot.

Let us know how you took the picture and maybe we can help with the exposure and the post processing. 50% of the work in getting an image to show is in the 'dark room'.

gwhizkids

03-11-2006, 09:40 PM

Just ran comparative runs of AutoStitch vs. Adobe Photoshop Element's built in panorama maker (I'd love to show the results here, but its stuff related to work and the employer might not be too happy about seeing it on this site). In any event, my experience was that AutoStitch did a far superior job in matching the various photos together to make a panorama. Color matching was superb (even correcting for some lens flare I had in one of my photos) and the process took only about 1/10 the time of the Adobe function.

The only area in which Adobe outperformed Autostitch was in the handling of perspective. Adobe does a very good job with perspective and produces a very believable panorama (in that respect). Autostitch, on the other hand, produced a somewhat distorted (I think you could almost call it a reverse fish-eye) effect, with the picture bowing in towards the hypothetical viewer's reference point. I'm sure this is because I have not mastered AutoStitch's option dialog, which has a lot of very technical options, most of which about I am completely ignorant of.

Any ideas out there for which command set will affect perspective? Once I have an idea of which commands to fiddle with, I will take it from there and experiment until the panorama is "correct".

bigpapajoe

03-12-2006, 10:34 AM

StanStan - As far as exposure settings and stuff, I used automatic. My FZ30 isn't here yet (still being shipped) so I'm using an older P&S. I didn't use flash cause my batteries were almost dead :) I tried fiddling with the settings on my P&S but didn't really seem to get many options. I can do the following:

Change ISO
Change focus
Change flash efficiency
Change EV

Other than that, I'm restricted to the technology of 2001. As soon as my FZ30 arrives I'll try another one - I will still need help adjusting settings though!

Will post again with [hopefully] better results within the next few days.

Thanks again!

StanStan

03-12-2006, 02:33 PM

In any case you should have a feel for Pano stitching when your FZ30 arrives. Do not leave out a photo processing software of your arsenal of tools as 50% of the work is done after the image comes out of the camera.

I guess I hijacked the thread to include panos but I think it outshines a fish eye you mentioned . Dante posted some very nice panos in this thread.

I wanted to include an upper band to my posted 270 but it is raining now so that will have to wait.

I took a very wide pano along th Yukon river in Alaska and three parts of the same train showed up in the pano. Had to clone out the other pieces of trains. Was one of the ancient wooden train for tourists and which I was on the day before.

Saying that. There is a use for wide angle lenses. Especially in interior shooting at parties were the subjects may move between pano's. The WCON 07 is a very good WA for the 30 but needs a 55/62 step up ring and a very thin step down ring to offset it a little from the camera to eliminate the soft spot in the center of images. I have the WCON 08B but wish it were a 07.

LoveLife

03-13-2006, 07:22 AM

http://lovelife.smugmug.com/photos/10563434-O.jpg

bigpapajoe

03-19-2006, 07:06 PM

Well I've been tinkering :)

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/5df/5df41aa8725fc4d6401858c67f78c327_556.jpg

One thing I've noticed - the photos I take are either really sharp or really fuzzy...maybe I just need to learn the manual features better

I really like the FZ30 though. Great camera.

Lens Flare

03-20-2006, 06:14 AM

I tried it once more using your directions and still get the same error. I think I may know what it is though. The images I am trying to make are rather close up (and the objects are 3d of course). If you shift to one direction, the look of the same object is completely different.

What you're seeing there is parallax error, which occurs when you don't rotate the camera around the nodal point of the lens when you're trying to get a panoramic image. Normally to get around this you'd need to get either an incredibly expensive panorama camera or a very expensive spherical (or at least panoramic) tripod head. However, you can also get the strange-looking but quite effective Panosaurus for about $75 which is a poor man's panoramic tripod head. I've never used it myself (and have no connection to the guy who makes it), but from comments by others it'd be something worth looking at if you're serious about panoramic shots.

(Besides, it's an interesting toy :-).

StanStan

03-20-2006, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by bigpapajoe
I tried it once more using your directions and still get the same error. I think I may know what it is though. The images I am trying to make are rather close up (and the objects are 3d of course). If you shift to one direction, the look of the same object is completely different.
I Quote Lens Flare:
"What you're seeing there is parallax error, which occurs when you don't rotate the camera around the nodal point of the lens when you're trying to get a panoramic image. Normally to get around this you'd need to get either an incredibly expensive panorama camera or a very expensive spherical (or at least panoramic) tripod head. However, you can also get the strange-looking but quite effective Panosaurus for about $75 which is a poor man's panoramic tripod head. I've never used it myself (and have no connection to the guy who makes it), but from comments by others it'd be something worth looking at if you're serious about panoramic shots."

I have used Autostitch to make pano images from hand held shots. The pano result is as sharp as the original individual images. In fact I have never used a tripod for my panos. Auto stitch corrects for misaligned verticals for each individual image. Also corrects for difference in exposure. P.S. The demo version works fine for me.Put a quarter on the ground/floor and keep the camera above it when panning. Also keep the same height. Outside it is not as important when you have a distant subject.

StanStan

Lens Flare

03-20-2006, 10:54 PM

I have used Autostitch to make pano images from hand held shots. The pano result is as sharp as the original individual images. In fact I have never used a tripod for my panos. [...] Outside it is not as important when you have a distant subject.

That's the important point, the more distant the subject, the less likely you are to have problems due to parallax error. So for the traditional mountaintop 360 view, you'll have no problems. The back yard is a bit more tricky if there are close-up objects, and for indoor shots with lots of close-up clutter you'd really need to get a panoramic tripod head - there's a special market segment for these just for real-estate agents wanting to get interior shots of houses they're selling.